No really. While I agree that D2 felt better during its prime than D3 feels now, this is just a compilation of "D3 doesn't have this that D2 had, so it sucks".
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with almost everything in there.
First of all, what he doesn't say in his "OMG they closed Blizzard North" statement is that the "3 key people", Brevik and both Schaefers, had left Blizzard North in 2003 already (yes, just one year after the development started - though it conceptually even started a bit earlier). So Blizzard North was already sort of dismantled for two years and Diablo 3 going nowhere when they closed it.
Second, the video starts by telling us that Diablo 1+2 sold 6.5 million copies and then quotes Brevik that his idea would've sold well. To be honest, Diablo 3 already has a cumulative number of 30m sold copies, almost 5 times as many as "his" earlier games. He, on the other hand, has produced basically nothing since leaving Blizzard. I worship him for the amazing games he created, but I don't like that he's just going around and giving interviews everywhere, trashtalking Diablo, but if he would've done such a better job, why in those 13 years since he left hasn't he created anything like it? Anything at all that recreates the feeling he's missing from D3? It's not really good style to talk about your former employer like that, and it's especially strange to do it when you have nothing to show to back up the claim that you would've done a better job.
The rest of the video is pretty much the typical story and "darkness" rant. He's comparing random D3 campaign areas to CS and the Throne Room... really? Please compare Westmarch to Lut Gholein and tell me which is darker. Also, he's complaining about the lack of Tyrael's post-Diablo speech, but probably forgot that that was moved into the cut scene. I'm not saying it's better, but it's really comparing apples and oranges. I agree overall that the story of D3 wasn't as good as D2/D1 (actually, I think it was really rather weak), and of course I agree like everyone that the way Cain was killed off was ridiculous. It might've as well been an accident while cooking pasta. Nevertheless, his assessment is very subjective and oftentimes not fair.
Another thing that makes me rage is the class comparison. "A wizard is just a wizard and casts spells. A paladin in Diablo 2 has a variety of different playstyles, such as being a smiter tank or casting holy spells." Holy crap, what a piece of BS? Let me turn this around: "A sorcerer is just a sorcerer and casts spells. A crusader in Diablo 3 has a variety of different playstyles, such as being a thorns tank or casting lightning spells. Or having an army of Bowmen. Or searing the enemies with holy fire from above. Or ride to Valhalla on his horse. Or pulling mobs together in a group." Seriously, are you kidding me?
And of course I expected the "no trading, boo-hoo" rant. This is just so ignorant of the history of trading in Diablo, and all the explanations of Jay Wilson, Josh Mosqueira, and others. We've been there, done that, the AH killed the game, and it's good that it's gone. And trading with it. I'd kill the fun for all my friends if I'd just hand them full sets and ancients when they come online.
I'm gonna have to watch some cat videos now to calm down. What a piece of....
As much as I love D2, and I will always view it as a superior game in most aspects, I can't help but agree with almost every point Bagstone.
I love Dave and the work he did, but to go around and shit talk a different take on "his diablo" is immature and childish. Really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. There is just no professionalism whatsoever. The game is great, it may not hold my interest for more than a month or so each season, but it still gets me coming back. It would be one thing if had another game to prove his vision would have been better, but he's done nothing.... sad.
haha i can't believe Bagstone can actually get ANGRY :PPP haha my man :DDD
yeah the guy that made a video is obviously a huuuge D2 fanboy. I liked the amount of effort he did though and the nostalgic feeling that video gave me. Also it was very interesting to see Brevik interview, i've never seen it before.
"Accident while cooking pasta", almost lost my breakfast on my laptop. But in all seriousness I remember when I first started D3 and I had no problem with the look of it, hated the AH but that's been fixed. I'm probably indicative of that it has sold so many copies and that is I looked past any inconsequential differences and saw what I've loved about the Diablo series, the finding and using of so many types of items against the hoards of hell although I miss my all powerful glacial spike.
I agree with Bagstone almost completely- sorry dude- I can totally see why trading has been removed almost completely but wonder if free trading could be incorporated another way- EG- between members of a clan who have been in the clan for say, 1 month. Would give a massive boost to keeping clans together.
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"Age and treachery will always defeat youthfulness and zeal..."
This just felt like a bunch of complaining about things that the video maker didn't like about D3. It's purely subjective, but it didn't add any value to the time I put into watching it.
Diablo 2 is a epic RPG game, has marked my infancy, when i played in the cybers (when the Internet yet didn't comes to our houses). Warcraft 3, Diablo 2 and CS 1.5 bring me good remembers.
#NostalgicModeOn
We're on the same page.
Let's hope this new game "in the diablo universe" isn't some iOs crap
Diablo 2 is and will always be the best game of the 3 for me. And no speech of D3 fanatic like bagstone is never going to change that
I recently thought about starting D2 again, because of SDGQ (watching Lama) and more recently watching Ryu a lot. I'm a fan of Diablo, because this website is called Diablofans. What turns me off about D2 though is that many of the D2 players are toxic and have nothing but hatred. If you love D2 that's fine, but recently you've posted ~5 comments on the Diablo 3 section of our forums to stress how much you dislike D3 and how much better D2 and PoE is. You know, that is fine, but you don't need to go around and make everyone's life miserable just because of disliking a game. I don't go around to CoD or other FPS reddits and tell them how shit their game is. We enjoy D3, you enjoy D2/PoE. I'd ask you to think positive - post your positive comments in our legacy games section, or even in some other PoE forum. But please don't just make it a habit to tell everyone how "fanatic" they are just because they like a different game than you. That doesn't bode well and is the same kind of criticism I have towards Brevik: Lately he's on a "D3 sucks so much" interview tour and spills nothing but hatred, but in 16 years he has not managed to deliver any positive outcome of his grand vision of what D2's legacy would be by actually developing a game that lives up to his promises of "I could do better than Blizzard".
Enjoy your stay at Diablofans, but please make it not un-enjoyable for others. Thanks.
He's been running hell any% HC sorceress lately. The nice thing is that he just plays to play - he doesn't reset but just keeps going, trying to finish the run (getting the record is less about being faster but more about staying alive for 6h+).
There's also Teo (https://www.twitch.tv/teo1904) who holds the speed records in all 4 brackets (!), but recently he's doing normal runs which is quite spammy and repetitive and reminds me of D3 GR runs ;-)
@sick4slayer: Arguments are okay, but I also just uttered my opinion and you took it to a personal level by calling me a "D3 fanatic". I'll just call you a D2 fanatic once here and then we're settled, okay ;-)
D2 has way more flaws than D3 does (and it should, it's significantly older). Unfortunately the most important aspect, addiction and incentive, were done much better in D2 and is why nobody nowadays wants to play D3.
D2 has no end game as far as i can see, and it's more monotonous than D3. There's no "competition" in D2, right? In D3 we have greater rifts with leaderboards. In D2 there's what.. Endless Baal runs?
Now.. people who say that D2 is addictive. I think that D3 is much, much more addictive than D2. I've spent a lot of time in D2 back in the days, finished all difficulties with all classes and that was it. In D3 , the multiplayer experience was CRAZY SO MUCH BETTER than in D2. It's like moon and earth compared. For me, D3 is way waaaay much more addictive. I've never spent so much time in any other game.
I'd kill the fun for all my friends if I'd just hand them full sets and ancients when they come online....
I wonder what you think of the season gift?? After all, it's never been that hard to get, since co-opt games are organized.
As for D2 vs D3, D2 had more possibilities, since the sets were weak. D3 has a clearly superior player interface (but a bit short on '5 & 6' keys). D2 seemed to always have something more to do, D3 has grinding for paragons, ancients, and caldesans... D2/D1 was written in the days of programming giants, D3 in the era of pretty pictures and screen flashes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Conversation enriches understanding....most of the time
I'd kill the fun for all my friends if I'd just hand them full sets and ancients when they come online....
I wonder what you think of the season gift?? After all, it's never been that hard to get, since co-opt games are organized.
Wasn't a fan of Haedrig's Gift at first. Also thought that the old installment of S4-S6 was a bit too easy. With S7 it's going into the right direction; on PTR, due to the legendary buff, you have your set(s) complete before you get Haedrig's. We have to accept that Diablo 3 is catered more towards casuals (let's be honest, in the beginning D1+D2 were, too, it's just that all the casuals left). From testing S7 I feel that Haedrig's is okay and in a good spot. Btw: Haedrig has nothing to do with co-op, a good solo player gets it as fast (if not faster) than most groups. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some solo players might be the first to farm T6 in S7. The constant complaining about group play has led Blizzard to do their usual over-tuning and in S7 a solo player will be better off than a semi-good coordinated group. (Of course awful players will still compare themselves to the top groups and cry that they're behind...)
As for D2 vs D3, D2 had more possibilities, since the sets were weak.
Yeah, that argument I don't buy. In S7, many classes have multiple sets that are really good high-end. In fact, except Crusader (who's overall in a bad spot) most classes will be able to get very good results and go quite high with 3-4 of their class sets plus LoN. It looks like the monk is extremely well-balanced with all 4 sets and LoN builds within a few GR tiers. And then for some of those sets you have different builds.
In D2 you had diversity... but that's like saying you have a lot of different TX builds for the Angry Chicken WD. Of course you can create 20 different builds, but there's probably only 1-2 that are viable, the rest is terrible. Same in D2 - of course you had potentially 100 different Necro builds, but I remember one patch where anything but Corpse Explosion was completely useless, very much similar to the Twister meta in S6.
D3 has a clearly superior player interface (but a bit short on '5 & 6' keys).
Disagree, the UI in Diablo 3 is lackluster in many ways. Just consider the mess-up of paragon levels unreadable for many seasons, the toast overlay preventing you to click on chat, chat preventing you to click on your lower stash contents, the interface being static and have no customization option (in 2016 that is nothing but laughable), the stash page implementation which is unbelievable clumsy, cumbersome, and disappointing, the buff numbers not readable, no cooldown timers, no buffs for so many spells, right-click/left-click being fixed, the paragon button covering up buffs, for over a year half the buffs being invisible due to a static limit, ... should I go on? For each of those points I can tell you UI development guidelines and measures to prevent this. Either D3 has no UX expert who he didn't get a say in the development, but I've noticed this in many Blizzard games and the jobs pages - they seem to not pay the necessary attention to UI design. So yeah, on this one: D2's interface might not have been perfect, but was okay for 2000. D3's interface is not acceptable to my expectations of AAA games and especially Blizzard in 2016.
End-game in D2 was very interesting. Go to Baal, kill him. Rinse, repeat. People even counted the number (1300 times from level 98 to 99). That was similar to D3V (Crater scorpion farming/Crypt farming), which is why rifts were introduced. I personally think rifts are an AMAZING change over the constant "same old same old" runs one did in D2. And before you start telling me that there were "so many interesting builds to discover": 99.9% of people who complain "there's nothing to do in D3" just play the cookie cutter build and then throw the game away. Almost no one actually plays the game as intended/hoped by Blizzard: pick up items and think about potential builds. I can't even tell you how many sub-par builds I've tested. There are, I think just by math, 3 billion different builds in D3. Good luck getting to a point where there's "nothing to do" in D3.
D2/D1 was written in the days of programming giants, D3 in the era of pretty pictures and screen flashes.
Okay, this really makes me wonder where you got this from. As a software developer this is just cringe. You aren't really comparing a 1996 game to a 2013 release? We're talking orders of magnitude in code complexity here. D3 has a complex engine just for the combat mechanics (which makes its combat feel so great, btw). D2 has... sprites. Also, D1/D2 were/are full of bugs, whereas D3 has not seen any hacks or engine-based exploits yet (also thanks to online only). Yeah, those times (the 90s) were the times of "programming giants", but basically only due to one name: John Carmack. Without a doubt, the Q3 engine was probably one of the masterpieces of code. But D1 doesn't count in that category. What was awesome was the storyline and (back then) novel concept. However, none of the core members have been able to showcase their ability in the past 15 years.
Look, I'm not saying D3 is better than D2 or vice versa. They're entirely different games. But in all those comparisons I see so much nostalgia - false nostalgia, especially coming from people who just have other preferences. For example, people who loved D2 for their trading or PvP. Both are aspects that are not present in D2, so of course you're not liking the game. It's like the people who love FIFA 1998 because it had indoor football - yes, awesome - but of course FIFA 2016 is better, no one with a sane mind can argue with that. I personally love Fallout 1+2 and strongly dislike Fallout 3+ (and can't play it, I started 5 times but everytime just stop because it doesn't work for me). Yet, I admit that Fallout 3 is probably better in many ways (also more appealing to many people), but not for me. Same with the D2 lovers: It's a different game, it doesn't work for you, but don't "trashtalk" it, because it makes you look ignorant. That's all.
I agree with Bagstone in all the aforementioned points. D3 is a technically superior game and it should come to no surprise.
My problem with D3 (and most titles nowadays) is a general lack of RESPECT on a conceptual level. Meaning: The user to world approach is off, and that breaks the game (for me) on a fundamental level.
Let me explain, and please, try to imagine this from the point of view of a casual, not a fan that read all the novels before playing the game.
In D1 you were a nameless hero in search of fortune and fame. You knew nothing of that which you were facing, no monsters spoke to you (except Garbad and Lachdanan), your relationship to the world and its inhabitants was based on exploration and a very few scattered texts that where intentionally cryptically and obscure. You had to venture yourself into the unknown going deeper and deeper with the promise of power and the inevitable fight with the big D.
What is that monster? I don’t know.
What can it do? I don’t know.
What will jump out to eat me if I open that door? I don’t know.
Dying at the beginning of D1 was a very, VERY possible thing. And death meant, well.. That. Death.
The very first "boss" encounter with the butcher was intentionally designed to be unfair.. No cutscenes, no villain monologues (I’m looking at you Magda). You opened a door, and immediately started running for your life. IF you got to kill this fearsome demon, you were rewarded with a powerful item that carried you for a long time.
D2 continued the story of the nameless hero, added beautiful cutscenes, dialogues, etc. But the general INTENTION off all this info was to purposely mislead the player, building momentum for the big plot twist that culminated with LOD.
Then D3 came along and.. You are THE NEPHALEM. A creature so powerful that both angels and demons fear (literal words from Tyrael). There is no reason to fear anything, you da boss.
Diablo lord of.. Whatever BUT terror..
Whenever you accidentally step on a bug, a (magical?) explorer starts rambling about his own experiences with said creature. Decard Cain opened up a bag shop and left free bag samples all around Sanctuary for you to find useless lore? (then got killed)
Everything in D3 is desperate to show some form of personality and connect with the player, even if that means ruining the atmosphere.
Azmodan sending you invoice messages every 5 steps? Even Legion himself cannot fight the urge to give you the lip whenever you do something.. Weren’t these guys planning this for like.. eternity? How can the player be in complete control of the situation, but just five minutes late?
Diablo the lord of terror is afraid of you.
Imperius, the embodiment of valor, is afraid of you.
Azmodan, the greatest commander of the burning hells isn’t wreaking havoc on the battlefield, leading the charge.. No, he waits for YOU on an arena type throne room, as if he had nothing better to do than to just wait for you to kill him.
I could go on and on..
The point is that the focus of the first 2 games was on the monsters, history and atmosphere, whereas the third installment caters to the egocentric point of view of the current "player base".
Not really sorry for rant, cheers
Ps: I still play every season on D3, solo self found. Season 6? It took me 2 days to be facerolling T10 with my monk.. Just finished installing D2 again.
In D2 you had more choice overall i think. Things like going max block or just Vit. Or going for ES or not as a melee sorc. In D2 you had very unique items that were so rare but weren't anything specific i.e a unique or a set item or whatever, they were just magical or rare items that could roll with amazing stats for specific builds.
An example would be this GH:
And then you could socket it with something like:
Which results in an awesome self-created item that feels 100 times more personal and rewarding than anything in D3 in my opinion.
Building a character properly and meeting certain breakpoints of FHR, IAS, Block%, etc was also a process that involved a lot of planning and thinking. It took quite an effort to properly come up with all of the things required for a really good build.
Add to that things like the charms which were varied and could compliment almost any build that you could come up with. A magic find character could use MF SC's for an example. If you were missing a few FHR points to meet a breakpoint, you could give up one of your life/mana/ar sc's and get one fhr sc... There were a lot of choices involved with creating a well geared character.
Not to mention crafting. In D2, crafting could potentially get you BIS items. crafted amulets are the best example. They are so hard to come by and even harder to roll well, but if they do roll good, you might end up with a sick crafted amulet that no one else has.
Problem with all of that is that D2 thrived on duped items. I think that it's safe to say that if it weren't for dupes in D2, 99% of the people would have never got a well geared character with all of the runewords highly rolled, with things like 40/15 jewels or 20/20/3 sc's... But somehow, the game had a functioning community that worked quite well. Sure, some people were total elitists because their wealth was that of like half of the server combined (again due to dupes and other secrets).
But that's where things like ladder resets and pandemonium events came in to try and minimize the dominance of certain factors over the economy. And those did pretty well. But yeah on NL for an example, the accumulated wealth and bugged / legacy items is probably too much but that's why it's NL and that's why ladder resets exist.
What i really like about D2 is the fact that certain builds were very general-purpose oriented - builds like the hammerdin which could basically do antyhing in the game including pvp, MF, pve, carrying other people, rushing, any kind of farming, etc. And there were very specific builds like the gold find barb ( i love to bring the gf barb as an example whenever possible) - A build that had one specific role and also, one specific area and mobs to farm. The benefit of having such a character was great but building it was not a simple task. Things like that gave you a sense of working in order to make your account better overall i.e to have the ability to farm gold, the ability to rush a friend if needed, the ability to MF farm, etc...
And last but not least, PVP. To me, and i'm sure that to many other people, PVP was the true end game of D2. The amount of theorycrafting and thought put behind certain builds is simply insane. What is even more insane is how rare certain PVP items were. Getting really well rolled claws for a hybrid sin with + to traps, + to LS, + to AR based on char level, + sockets, etc? I can't believe how unique and rare certain items were. Comparing this to D3 is a joke. Not because D3 is bad, it's just a lot more normalized and "appealing to the masses".
TLDR: D2 was amazing in terms of customization that probably would have never seen its full potential actually reached if it weren't for dupes but the dupes ended up creating some sort of an economy that made sense and ultimately lead to a better playing experience overall in my opinion. Diablo 3 is a lot more streamlined and normalized and that is certainly fitting to today's gaming market.
"Okay, this really makes me wonder where you got this from. As a software
developer this is just cringe. You aren't really comparing a 1996 game
to a 2013 release? We're talking orders of magnitude in code complexity
here. D3 has a complex engine just for the combat mechanics (which makes
its combat feel so great, btw). D2 has... sprites. Also, D1/D2 were/are
full of bugs, whereas D3 has not seen any hacks or engine-based
exploits yet (also thanks to online only). Yeah, those times (the 90s)
were the times of "programming giants", but basically only due to one
name: John Carmack. Without a doubt, the Q3 engine was probably one of
the masterpieces of code. But D1 doesn't count in that category. What
was awesome was the storyline and (back then) novel concept. However,
none of the core members have been able to showcase their ability in the
past 15 years."
Hehe, spites were a limitation of the graphics hardware, not the programmer. Carmack was good, but there were plenty of others you never heard of, let me recommend a certain 3 volume set. If I was in the core 15 years ago, I'd be enjoying the money, not fiddling bits. As for your complaints about the D3 user interface, I was merely comparing the d2 v d3 angle. As for the difference in 'something to do', if I got a white item in D2, I could do something with it (be crazy in the cracked sash game, imbue), In D3, white items are a joke, good for numbing crushing (so boring that there is a quick button) in order to use in some other recipe as a filler item (it's best use seems to be cubing to a different mat - i.e. same ****). The whole trading game was educational in D2, it is amazing what some people will trade - D3 is find everything yourself generally. PvP had some of the most clever builds, ah well....this is a bit pointless as it's like 'taste' or 'art', a matter of personal choice that cannot be argued. It is what it is
Such a nice video and a lot of work and love here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TB3VNMZFwPg
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
No really. While I agree that D2 felt better during its prime than D3 feels now, this is just a compilation of "D3 doesn't have this that D2 had, so it sucks".
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with almost everything in there.
First of all, what he doesn't say in his "OMG they closed Blizzard North" statement is that the "3 key people", Brevik and both Schaefers, had left Blizzard North in 2003 already (yes, just one year after the development started - though it conceptually even started a bit earlier). So Blizzard North was already sort of dismantled for two years and Diablo 3 going nowhere when they closed it.
Second, the video starts by telling us that Diablo 1+2 sold 6.5 million copies and then quotes Brevik that his idea would've sold well. To be honest, Diablo 3 already has a cumulative number of 30m sold copies, almost 5 times as many as "his" earlier games. He, on the other hand, has produced basically nothing since leaving Blizzard. I worship him for the amazing games he created, but I don't like that he's just going around and giving interviews everywhere, trashtalking Diablo, but if he would've done such a better job, why in those 13 years since he left hasn't he created anything like it? Anything at all that recreates the feeling he's missing from D3? It's not really good style to talk about your former employer like that, and it's especially strange to do it when you have nothing to show to back up the claim that you would've done a better job.
The rest of the video is pretty much the typical story and "darkness" rant. He's comparing random D3 campaign areas to CS and the Throne Room... really? Please compare Westmarch to Lut Gholein and tell me which is darker. Also, he's complaining about the lack of Tyrael's post-Diablo speech, but probably forgot that that was moved into the cut scene. I'm not saying it's better, but it's really comparing apples and oranges. I agree overall that the story of D3 wasn't as good as D2/D1 (actually, I think it was really rather weak), and of course I agree like everyone that the way Cain was killed off was ridiculous. It might've as well been an accident while cooking pasta. Nevertheless, his assessment is very subjective and oftentimes not fair.
Another thing that makes me rage is the class comparison. "A wizard is just a wizard and casts spells. A paladin in Diablo 2 has a variety of different playstyles, such as being a smiter tank or casting holy spells." Holy crap, what a piece of BS? Let me turn this around: "A sorcerer is just a sorcerer and casts spells. A crusader in Diablo 3 has a variety of different playstyles, such as being a thorns tank or casting lightning spells. Or having an army of Bowmen. Or searing the enemies with holy fire from above. Or ride to Valhalla on his horse. Or pulling mobs together in a group." Seriously, are you kidding me?
And of course I expected the "no trading, boo-hoo" rant. This is just so ignorant of the history of trading in Diablo, and all the explanations of Jay Wilson, Josh Mosqueira, and others. We've been there, done that, the AH killed the game, and it's good that it's gone. And trading with it. I'd kill the fun for all my friends if I'd just hand them full sets and ancients when they come online.
I'm gonna have to watch some cat videos now to calm down. What a piece of....
As much as I love D2, and I will always view it as a superior game in most aspects, I can't help but agree with almost every point Bagstone.
I love Dave and the work he did, but to go around and shit talk a different take on "his diablo" is immature and childish. Really leaves a sour taste in my mouth. There is just no professionalism whatsoever. The game is great, it may not hold my interest for more than a month or so each season, but it still gets me coming back. It would be one thing if had another game to prove his vision would have been better, but he's done nothing.... sad.
haha i can't believe Bagstone can actually get ANGRY :PPP haha my man :DDD
yeah the guy that made a video is obviously a huuuge D2 fanboy. I liked the amount of effort he did though and the nostalgic feeling that video gave me. Also it was very interesting to see Brevik interview, i've never seen it before.
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
"Accident while cooking pasta", almost lost my breakfast on my laptop. But in all seriousness I remember when I first started D3 and I had no problem with the look of it, hated the AH but that's been fixed. I'm probably indicative of that it has sold so many copies and that is I looked past any inconsequential differences and saw what I've loved about the Diablo series, the finding and using of so many types of items against the hoards of hell although I miss my all powerful glacial spike.
And yes the story could've been told better.
I agree with Bagstone almost completely- sorry dude- I can totally see why trading has been removed almost completely but wonder if free trading could be incorporated another way- EG- between members of a clan who have been in the clan for say, 1 month. Would give a massive boost to keeping clans together.
"Age and treachery will always defeat youthfulness and zeal..."
This just felt like a bunch of complaining about things that the video maker didn't like about D3. It's purely subjective, but it didn't add any value to the time I put into watching it.
meh...
Let's hope this new game "in the diablo universe" isn't some iOs crap
Enjoy your stay at Diablofans, but please make it not un-enjoyable for others. Thanks.
on a side note. what are the good d2 twitch/youtube channels to check?
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
I recently watched a lot of Ryu: https://www.twitch.tv/ryuquezacotl
He's been running hell any% HC sorceress lately. The nice thing is that he just plays to play - he doesn't reset but just keeps going, trying to finish the run (getting the record is less about being faster but more about staying alive for 6h+).
There's also Teo (https://www.twitch.tv/teo1904) who holds the speed records in all 4 brackets (!), but recently he's doing normal runs which is quite spammy and repetitive and reminds me of D3 GR runs ;-)
@sick4slayer: Arguments are okay, but I also just uttered my opinion and you took it to a personal level by calling me a "D3 fanatic". I'll just call you a D2 fanatic once here and then we're settled, okay ;-)
D2 has way more flaws than D3 does (and it should, it's significantly older). Unfortunately the most important aspect, addiction and incentive, were done much better in D2 and is why nobody nowadays wants to play D3.
D2 has no end game as far as i can see, and it's more monotonous than D3. There's no "competition" in D2, right? In D3 we have greater rifts with leaderboards. In D2 there's what.. Endless Baal runs?
Now.. people who say that D2 is addictive. I think that D3 is much, much more addictive than D2. I've spent a lot of time in D2 back in the days, finished all difficulties with all classes and that was it. In D3 , the multiplayer experience was CRAZY SO MUCH BETTER than in D2. It's like moon and earth compared. For me, D3 is way waaaay much more addictive. I've never spent so much time in any other game.
http://www.angryroleplayer.com/
http://www.youtube.com/c/angryroleplayer
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105329-2-6-7-rend-bleed-whirlwind-gr130
https://www.diablofans.com/builds/105301-2-6-7-fist-of-the-heavens-aegis-of-valor-gr110
As for D2 vs D3, D2 had more possibilities, since the sets were weak. D3 has a clearly superior player interface (but a bit short on '5 & 6' keys). D2 seemed to always have something more to do, D3 has grinding for paragons, ancients, and caldesans... D2/D1 was written in the days of programming giants, D3 in the era of pretty pictures and screen flashes.
Wasn't a fan of Haedrig's Gift at first. Also thought that the old installment of S4-S6 was a bit too easy. With S7 it's going into the right direction; on PTR, due to the legendary buff, you have your set(s) complete before you get Haedrig's. We have to accept that Diablo 3 is catered more towards casuals (let's be honest, in the beginning D1+D2 were, too, it's just that all the casuals left). From testing S7 I feel that Haedrig's is okay and in a good spot. Btw: Haedrig has nothing to do with co-op, a good solo player gets it as fast (if not faster) than most groups. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some solo players might be the first to farm T6 in S7. The constant complaining about group play has led Blizzard to do their usual over-tuning and in S7 a solo player will be better off than a semi-good coordinated group. (Of course awful players will still compare themselves to the top groups and cry that they're behind...)
Yeah, that argument I don't buy. In S7, many classes have multiple sets that are really good high-end. In fact, except Crusader (who's overall in a bad spot) most classes will be able to get very good results and go quite high with 3-4 of their class sets plus LoN. It looks like the monk is extremely well-balanced with all 4 sets and LoN builds within a few GR tiers. And then for some of those sets you have different builds.
In D2 you had diversity... but that's like saying you have a lot of different TX builds for the Angry Chicken WD. Of course you can create 20 different builds, but there's probably only 1-2 that are viable, the rest is terrible. Same in D2 - of course you had potentially 100 different Necro builds, but I remember one patch where anything but Corpse Explosion was completely useless, very much similar to the Twister meta in S6.
Disagree, the UI in Diablo 3 is lackluster in many ways. Just consider the mess-up of paragon levels unreadable for many seasons, the toast overlay preventing you to click on chat, chat preventing you to click on your lower stash contents, the interface being static and have no customization option (in 2016 that is nothing but laughable), the stash page implementation which is unbelievable clumsy, cumbersome, and disappointing, the buff numbers not readable, no cooldown timers, no buffs for so many spells, right-click/left-click being fixed, the paragon button covering up buffs, for over a year half the buffs being invisible due to a static limit, ... should I go on? For each of those points I can tell you UI development guidelines and measures to prevent this. Either D3 has no UX expert who he didn't get a say in the development, but I've noticed this in many Blizzard games and the jobs pages - they seem to not pay the necessary attention to UI design. So yeah, on this one: D2's interface might not have been perfect, but was okay for 2000. D3's interface is not acceptable to my expectations of AAA games and especially Blizzard in 2016.
End-game in D2 was very interesting. Go to Baal, kill him. Rinse, repeat. People even counted the number (1300 times from level 98 to 99). That was similar to D3V (Crater scorpion farming/Crypt farming), which is why rifts were introduced. I personally think rifts are an AMAZING change over the constant "same old same old" runs one did in D2. And before you start telling me that there were "so many interesting builds to discover": 99.9% of people who complain "there's nothing to do in D3" just play the cookie cutter build and then throw the game away. Almost no one actually plays the game as intended/hoped by Blizzard: pick up items and think about potential builds. I can't even tell you how many sub-par builds I've tested. There are, I think just by math, 3 billion different builds in D3. Good luck getting to a point where there's "nothing to do" in D3.
D2 had grinding for XP, high-level runes, and some elusive super rare drops...
Yes, both D2 and D3 (and D1) are grinding games.
Okay, this really makes me wonder where you got this from. As a software developer this is just cringe. You aren't really comparing a 1996 game to a 2013 release? We're talking orders of magnitude in code complexity here. D3 has a complex engine just for the combat mechanics (which makes its combat feel so great, btw). D2 has... sprites. Also, D1/D2 were/are full of bugs, whereas D3 has not seen any hacks or engine-based exploits yet (also thanks to online only). Yeah, those times (the 90s) were the times of "programming giants", but basically only due to one name: John Carmack. Without a doubt, the Q3 engine was probably one of the masterpieces of code. But D1 doesn't count in that category. What was awesome was the storyline and (back then) novel concept. However, none of the core members have been able to showcase their ability in the past 15 years.
Look, I'm not saying D3 is better than D2 or vice versa. They're entirely different games. But in all those comparisons I see so much nostalgia - false nostalgia, especially coming from people who just have other preferences. For example, people who loved D2 for their trading or PvP. Both are aspects that are not present in D2, so of course you're not liking the game. It's like the people who love FIFA 1998 because it had indoor football - yes, awesome - but of course FIFA 2016 is better, no one with a sane mind can argue with that. I personally love Fallout 1+2 and strongly dislike Fallout 3+ (and can't play it, I started 5 times but everytime just stop because it doesn't work for me). Yet, I admit that Fallout 3 is probably better in many ways (also more appealing to many people), but not for me. Same with the D2 lovers: It's a different game, it doesn't work for you, but don't "trashtalk" it, because it makes you look ignorant. That's all.
I agree with Bagstone in all the aforementioned points. D3 is a technically superior game and it should come to no surprise.
My problem with D3 (and most titles nowadays) is a general lack of RESPECT on a conceptual level. Meaning: The user to world approach is off, and that breaks the game (for me) on a fundamental level.
Let me explain, and please, try to imagine this from the point of view of a casual, not a fan that read all the novels before playing the game.
In D1 you were a nameless hero in search of fortune and fame. You knew nothing of that which you were facing, no monsters spoke to you (except Garbad and Lachdanan), your relationship to the world and its inhabitants was based on exploration and a very few scattered texts that where intentionally cryptically and obscure. You had to venture yourself into the unknown going deeper and deeper with the promise of power and the inevitable fight with the big D.
What is that monster? I don’t know.
What can it do? I don’t know.
What will jump out to eat me if I open that door? I don’t know.
Dying at the beginning of D1 was a very, VERY possible thing. And death meant, well.. That. Death.
The very first "boss" encounter with the butcher was intentionally designed to be unfair.. No cutscenes, no villain monologues (I’m looking at you Magda). You opened a door, and immediately started running for your life. IF you got to kill this fearsome demon, you were rewarded with a powerful item that carried you for a long time.
D2 continued the story of the nameless hero, added beautiful cutscenes, dialogues, etc. But the general INTENTION off all this info was to purposely mislead the player, building momentum for the big plot twist that culminated with LOD.
Then D3 came along and.. You are THE NEPHALEM. A creature so powerful that both angels and demons fear (literal words from Tyrael). There is no reason to fear anything, you da boss.
Diablo lord of.. Whatever BUT terror..
Whenever you accidentally step on a bug, a (magical?) explorer starts rambling about his own experiences with said creature. Decard Cain opened up a bag shop and left free bag samples all around Sanctuary for you to find useless lore? (then got killed)
Everything in D3 is desperate to show some form of personality and connect with the player, even if that means ruining the atmosphere.
Azmodan sending you invoice messages every 5 steps? Even Legion himself cannot fight the urge to give you the lip whenever you do something.. Weren’t these guys planning this for like.. eternity? How can the player be in complete control of the situation, but just five minutes late?
Diablo the lord of terror is afraid of you.
Imperius, the embodiment of valor, is afraid of you.
Azmodan, the greatest commander of the burning hells isn’t wreaking havoc on the battlefield, leading the charge.. No, he waits for YOU on an arena type throne room, as if he had nothing better to do than to just wait for you to kill him.
I could go on and on..
The point is that the focus of the first 2 games was on the monsters, history and atmosphere, whereas the third installment caters to the egocentric point of view of the current "player base".
Not really sorry for rant, cheers
Ps: I still play every season on D3, solo self found. Season 6? It took me 2 days to be facerolling T10 with my monk.. Just finished installing D2 again.
In D2 you had more choice overall i think. Things like going max block or just Vit. Or going for ES or not as a melee sorc. In D2 you had very unique items that were so rare but weren't anything specific i.e a unique or a set item or whatever, they were just magical or rare items that could roll with amazing stats for specific builds.
An example would be this GH:
And then you could socket it with something like:
Which results in an awesome self-created item that feels 100 times more personal and rewarding than anything in D3 in my opinion.
Building a character properly and meeting certain breakpoints of FHR, IAS, Block%, etc was also a process that involved a lot of planning and thinking. It took quite an effort to properly come up with all of the things required for a really good build.
Add to that things like the charms which were varied and could compliment almost any build that you could come up with. A magic find character could use MF SC's for an example. If you were missing a few FHR points to meet a breakpoint, you could give up one of your life/mana/ar sc's and get one fhr sc... There were a lot of choices involved with creating a well geared character.
Not to mention crafting. In D2, crafting could potentially get you BIS items. crafted amulets are the best example. They are so hard to come by and even harder to roll well, but if they do roll good, you might end up with a sick crafted amulet that no one else has.
Problem with all of that is that D2 thrived on duped items. I think that it's safe to say that if it weren't for dupes in D2, 99% of the people would have never got a well geared character with all of the runewords highly rolled, with things like 40/15 jewels or 20/20/3 sc's... But somehow, the game had a functioning community that worked quite well. Sure, some people were total elitists because their wealth was that of like half of the server combined (again due to dupes and other secrets).
But that's where things like ladder resets and pandemonium events came in to try and minimize the dominance of certain factors over the economy. And those did pretty well. But yeah on NL for an example, the accumulated wealth and bugged / legacy items is probably too much but that's why it's NL and that's why ladder resets exist.
What i really like about D2 is the fact that certain builds were very general-purpose oriented - builds like the hammerdin which could basically do antyhing in the game including pvp, MF, pve, carrying other people, rushing, any kind of farming, etc. And there were very specific builds like the gold find barb ( i love to bring the gf barb as an example whenever possible) - A build that had one specific role and also, one specific area and mobs to farm. The benefit of having such a character was great but building it was not a simple task. Things like that gave you a sense of working in order to make your account better overall i.e to have the ability to farm gold, the ability to rush a friend if needed, the ability to MF farm, etc...
And last but not least, PVP. To me, and i'm sure that to many other people, PVP was the true end game of D2. The amount of theorycrafting and thought put behind certain builds is simply insane. What is even more insane is how rare certain PVP items were. Getting really well rolled claws for a hybrid sin with + to traps, + to LS, + to AR based on char level, + sockets, etc? I can't believe how unique and rare certain items were. Comparing this to D3 is a joke. Not because D3 is bad, it's just a lot more normalized and "appealing to the masses".
TLDR: D2 was amazing in terms of customization that probably would have never seen its full potential actually reached if it weren't for dupes but the dupes ended up creating some sort of an economy that made sense and ultimately lead to a better playing experience overall in my opinion. Diablo 3 is a lot more streamlined and normalized and that is certainly fitting to today's gaming market.
"Okay, this really makes me wonder where you got this from. As a software
developer this is just cringe. You aren't really comparing a 1996 game
to a 2013 release? We're talking orders of magnitude in code complexity
here. D3 has a complex engine just for the combat mechanics (which makes
its combat feel so great, btw). D2 has... sprites. Also, D1/D2 were/are
full of bugs, whereas D3 has not seen any hacks or engine-based
exploits yet (also thanks to online only). Yeah, those times (the 90s)
were the times of "programming giants", but basically only due to one
name: John Carmack. Without a doubt, the Q3 engine was probably one of
the masterpieces of code. But D1 doesn't count in that category. What
was awesome was the storyline and (back then) novel concept. However,
none of the core members have been able to showcase their ability in the
past 15 years."
Hehe, spites were a limitation of the graphics hardware, not the programmer. Carmack was good, but there were plenty of others you never heard of, let me recommend a certain 3 volume set. If I was in the core 15 years ago, I'd be enjoying the money, not fiddling bits. As for your complaints about the D3 user interface, I was merely comparing the d2 v d3 angle. As for the difference in 'something to do', if I got a white item in D2, I could do something with it (be crazy in the cracked sash game, imbue), In D3, white items are a joke, good for numbing crushing (so boring that there is a quick button) in order to use in some other recipe as a filler item (it's best use seems to be cubing to a different mat - i.e. same ****). The whole trading game was educational in D2, it is amazing what some people will trade - D3 is find everything yourself generally. PvP had some of the most clever builds, ah well....this is a bit pointless as it's like 'taste' or 'art', a matter of personal choice that cannot be argued. It is what it is