~
"[Diablo1+2] obviously had the gothic look to it, but, you they weren't, they weren't very uh, very colorful games."
"We want to take dark as an emotion, rather than an actual color art choice." -Rob Pardo
"Why the hell shouldn't it be for 'kiddies', it's a goddamn game afterall." -lethlan
No, it isn't. It's 3D Diablo with a broader colour pallette. The only thing thats missing is textures in alot of places, masonry currently doesn't have an aged look to it at all.
Can some people stop posting pictures of fully 3D first/third person games too. Diablo 3 is a 3D isometric game, it's a completely different bloody ballpark. Next person to mention AoC will get a slap.
And that color palette does not fit. That's the issue. It takes the focus away from the incredible look of your character, the true power of how your spells looked, and puts it on the scenery.
If you take a look at AoC...
But seriously, Titan Quest did a good job with this. The spells were not lost by the background (EXCEPT for ice spells in act 3... oh my how annoying). Nothing in the game drew away from the action. The game still looked amazing and the scenery was very well done.
I can easily see the current graphics messing with the gameplay. Using TQ as an example, I often respecced my character out of ice (usually went with my fire spells) when I went through Act 3 because I simply could not see my spells. It also made my ice spells seem incredibly weak because they simply did not stick out at all.
That's kind of an issue.
For an idea of what I mean, look at locust swarm. You couldn't really see the spell work when it was in a green area. You COULD see the fire rather easily though, and it looked much more devastating.
Diablo 1 and 2's use of color allowed for all spell types to look incredible during all acts of the game. I don't see that happening here, and that's an issue.
Another issue is that the cathedral looks completely different.
Thanks for pointing out the video. On a side note, with or without any petition, I would bet that the overall look of the game will change by release. Just look at the changes sc2 has gone through, ffs the siege tank looks completley different now from how it did when they first started releasing info about the game.
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There are no cheap tactics, only good ones.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
Hey I agree with you on the gothic graphics, but you can't say that nothing resembles Diablo. I mean, look at the skills, the action, the fighting, the intensity of it all. It's going to be a fun ROUGH ride. And the demon biting the barb in half?!
I didn't get the intensity of it. Not at all. I saw a bunch of characters running around sort of slapping a skill down every now and then while the big monster pathed terribly trying to hit them but usually failing.
Then I saw a barbarian intentionally run into an attack of the big guy and trigger the death animation. That's not very intense, mainly because the boss didn't have an IMPRESSIVE attack. There didn't look like there was much skill involved there. No sense of urgency to get away from him as he clumsily tried to path himself around things.
A sense of urgency is trying to dodge Diablos fire wall or breath of fire. That's intense.
Quote from "lethlan" »
By that logic, why can't the same work in reverse?
Use a high amount of bright colours (as opposed to constant dark ala D2) and then when boss fights are incoming, use a very dark/grey pallette. This makes such encounters feel far more epic and grim. The Diablo encounter (and almost every encounter in D2) lacked the epic feel due to the colours being overused and hence they didn't stand out as much as they should.
The siege beast at the end of the trailer isn't even considered a boss by the D3 team leader, so I can't wait to see the sizes of what's to come. If you like epic, D3 has set the scene to include some truly awesome boss fights.
And then your spells look puny. See TQ third act when you are using ice spells. You can't even see them. The bright colors from the world detract from your character and attacks who SHOULD be the center of the action. I don't see any real reason to zoom in on my character if everything around him is as bright and colorful as he is.
The attacks of the Barbarian didn't look very... big. His charges didn't stick out, his bright colorful attacks were sort of lost due to the rest of the screen being colorful (notice the blue-green around everything in the dungeon... it detracts from... everything). The locust swarm looked pretty bland and uninspired as well as not very powerful for two reasons:
1. The bright green of the grass and the bright orange of the bushes didn't go well with the bright green of the spell.
2. The spell itself doesn't bring about a "OH MAN KABOOM" that all of the D2 spells had.
The fire spell looked fine because the ground was a different color.
That's sort of an issue.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that the ice spells from D2 still looked powerful in Act 5. Even when in the Icy Caverns and what not. They stuck out and looked powerful. The spells also emitted light... which made them look more powerful. With everything as bright as it is (INCLUDING THE CATHEDRAL!) I don't see this happening. Spells will just seem very weak.
The first thing that drew my attention when I watched the trailer was how impressive the spell animations were. They use an even brighter colour set than the enviroment, so I see that as a non-issue.
The thing to consider right now is that we don't honestly know what colour schemes area's later on in D3 will look like. I really can't see them overusing a light green to be honest.
I will definately agree that the Cathedral looks different, the actual architecture is fine but it needs to look a ton more aged than it looks in the trailer. The floor looks new and untrod, lacking any form of cracking or general degradation.
The fire was fine, but the locust swarm was not. The barbarians special swings looked pretty bland when similar colors were all around you. Get rid of that blue-green in the cathedral and it'll be perfect. It will make it look older automatically.
The animation isn't a problem. It's the color. Not the brightness but the actual color itself. It doesn't contrast well with the world.
I'm going to trust them and just wait until I actually play DIII to see how it feels.
Aye Aye... couldn't agree more.
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GIEV D3 INFOZ NAO!( <---Poster from the official Bnet Forums) "I'm sure that in time, every bit of her will be gone and her death will be a mystery... even to me."-Secret Window
I didn't get the intensity of it. Not at all. I saw a bunch of characters running around sort of slapping a skill down every now and then while the big monster pathed terribly trying to hit them but usually failing.
Then I saw a barbarian intentionally run into an attack of the big guy and trigger the death animation. That's not very intense, mainly because the boss didn't have an IMPRESSIVE attack. There didn't look like there was much skill involved there. No sense of urgency to get away from him as he clumsily tried to path himself around things.
A sense of urgency is trying to dodge Diablos fire wall or breath of fire. That's intense.
And then your spells look puny. See TQ third act when you are using ice spells. You can't even see them. The bright colors from the world detract from your character and attacks who SHOULD be the center of the action. I don't see any real reason to zoom in on my character if everything around him is as bright and colorful as he is.
The attacks of the Barbarian didn't look very... big. His charges didn't stick out, his bright colorful attacks were sort of lost due to the rest of the screen being colorful (notice the blue-green around everything in the dungeon... it detracts from... everything). The locust swarm looked pretty bland and uninspired as well as not very powerful for two reasons:
1. The bright green of the grass and the bright orange of the bushes didn't go well with the bright green of the spell.
2. The spell itself doesn't bring about a "OH MAN KABOOM" that all of the D2 spells had.
The fire spell looked fine because the ground was a different color.
That's sort of an issue.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that the ice spells from D2 still looked powerful in Act 5. Even when in the Icy Caverns and what not. They stuck out and looked powerful. The spells also emitted light... which made them look more powerful. With everything as bright as it is (INCLUDING THE CATHEDRAL!) I don't see this happening. Spells will just seem very weak.
Stylized over realism...big mistake...someone should punch that guy to his balls to let him know what kind of *** is he doing (you can not always make atmosphere by story and things that are happening...I am going to kill you on the field filled with BUNNIES.. it looks like some kind of parody to Diablo)...and stylized doesn't mean cartoony that is truth as long as the world is not painted...
He makes a good point thought that conveying the growing descent into hell should start off with the world in its 20 Year old more healed status. They also noted that Diablo Universe had a lot more color then they remember it, if you look at II it would sometimes light up like a rainbow of colors. The system is a studied area of color theory, if you have bright tones then darker tones will contrast those brighter tones.
Basically it means that you can develop something with an atmosphere that is acceptable but overtime the contrast created during the level progression will likely create a more uneasy feeling. These guys know what they're talking about, they are using well studied aspects of color and design. Why it doesn't fit the Diablo universe to all of you guys is beyond me, but I will continue to try and educate you on its application.
The fire was fine, but the locust swarm was not. The barbarians special swings looked pretty bland when similar colors were all around you. Get rid of that blue-green in the cathedral and it'll be perfect. It will make it look older automatically.
The animation isn't a problem. It's the color. Not the brightness but the actual color itself. It doesn't contrast well with the world.
Did you download the high def version of the video?
Quick question: Are we sure this is the Cathedral? At first I was sort of disappointed but then decided to just see how things shape up. However, that is when I thought this was some random new dungeon/crypt, if this is supposed to be the TRISTRAM cathedral then something is seriously wrong.
Did they actually say it was? Or is this just speculation?
I really like the direction the game has went visually. I think a dark, non colorful world would probably be enjoyable short term, but since D3 will most likely be a game I'll want to play for many years, I welcome a large visual variety. Making a game too dark just creates something that is less adventurous and more predictable than I'd like. What I've seen so far from gameplay videos is full of style and visual flair, rather than an absence of light, coupled with dead bodies and such, which would be boring to me.
So far, it looks like we'll be exploring a living, breathing, but awfully brutal world, which is what I really want for D3. In some ways, I think this will make the situation Sanctuary is in feel more unfortunate and disheartening. The developers seem to be doing a great job at making the game brutal on a much deeper level, rather than using the tired, boring tricks we see in your average horror movie, or these so called horror games.
For me, I welcome and encourage an interesting, colorful world full of death and destruction.
More along the lines of... It looks nothing like the Cathedral in the first game.
It's been twenty years. The villagers could have easily expanded/changed the old cathedral. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they tore it down and rebuilt it from scratch, after all that happened there.
im just gonna wait and see what happens cuz i personally dont think i can change how they are gonna make this game so just gonna wait for release and enjoy
Did Blizzard create Diablo? No, they did not. They bought the company that created Diablo a month or two before the game shipped.
Does Diablo 3 currently look like WoW? Yes, yes it does.
Because I'm a fan. I've been waiting 8 years for this game.
Can you show me a clip of a scene from any game made in 2001 where comeone gets bitten in half? No, you can't. Can I get you one of someone being bitten in half post 2001? Yes.
Physics is expected in todays gaming market. Titan Quest set the bar here.
And Diablo isn't about horror. Diablo is about a gothic look an appearance. You don't understand what I'm saying, and it shows. You're completely misunderstanding it.
What we saw are two places we know from Diablo 1. One we know VERY WELL, the other we can see while in town. They look nothing like that. 20 years? Sure. K. Blue-green doesn't replace black in 20 years. That doesn't even make sense.
The whole thing is that what they are attempting to do is not working, and it isn't working for a very large number of us. Bright vibrant colors have not fit anywhere into the world of Diablo. The only place they have fit has been in the spells and armor. This is what made the game. The contrast between the bleak world and the colors.
People don't get this.
If you have a bright and colorful world, your bright blues, greens, reds, purples, etc from your armors, spells, abilities, etc become lost. They are not brought out. They aren't the focal point. The combat loses a lot of attention because they want to bring attention to the world.
That's not the point of Diablo. The point of Diablo is to have impressive spell effects, abilities, auras, armor, and weaponry that is brought out by the bleak landscape. This also helps make you feel powerful by putting your character at the center of everything.
This is why your first encounter with the bosses was amazing and unique. They stood out from all of the normal bad guys and looked much stronger than you without making them GIGANTIC. There was no need for them to reach to the sky like what we saw with the dragonspawn because they contrasted well with the rest of the game by having a unique pallet of colors that played against the act you were in.
Andariel? The red on her body played well against the act as red wasn't used very often. Her bright green poison spell also contrasted against the dark dungeon floor so it was not only easy to see, but easy to kill. This act set the entire mood for the game and it did it very well.
That big slug thing from Act 2 (can't remember his name, I hated him)? Him being ice was no coincidence. Not only did the color choice for ice go completely against the desert theme, but it was very easy to see over the sandy textures of the encounter and act.
This act was very colorful while starting to become moody.
Mephisto? Surely this is easy to explain. The extreme dark of the act contrasted perfectly with his lightning. It made it easy to see and stuck out. Him being primarily blue also contrasted the blood-and-black of the Durance of Hate. It made him stick out and seem epic. This act was very colorful yet very dark and moody.
Diablo? Pretty self explanatory. His red fire not only works well because it is hell, but it stuck out because of the very dark floor. This act was very colorful yet very dark and moody.
Baal? Easy pie. His purple and red spells contrasted perfectly with the light-blue-almost-white look of the snow. His appearance not only made him look intimidating, but it fit perfectly with the act.
I can't see what could fit well within what was shown in Diablo 3 besides something not-so-intimidating... and that's pretty un-Diablo.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
You, sir... have written the best argument of a fan yet.
my god, i was concerned about the art direction they took, but comaparing side by side with the pics posted by ultramegazord made my concern even greater
diablo 3 enviroment feels so fake compared to diablo 2 imo
thats just it though, with too much color its not 100% better, more like......80% better. They lose a lot of the gritty, dark, haunted, doomed feeling of the series that made it so conducive to a gothic fantasy. The only time i can remember it being that bright outside in Diablo 2 was when we were in the FREAKING DESERT!
As far as the music goes you are correct. It is very good, very epic. However i will miss some of those mysterious guitar songs from the previous game.....definitely made me think while playing my first and second time through single player.
However i will be very curious to see the "darker" parts of the game to see what they do with the color, as he explained that the style will change to convey mood. With all the color in the dungeon i thought of that game Overlord. Great fantasy game, lots of fun, but it was colorful and cartoony and it was MEANT to be.
Did you download the high def version of the video?
Yes. I also had a problem discerning the difference between zombies on the zombie wall, although that's such a minor thing that it doesn't bother me. That would be kind of like complaining about not being able to see the individual flames on a firewall spell.
The problem was that it blended in rather easily with the grass. All they have to do, and I mean ALL they have to do to fix this is to make their lighting engine impressive. That's about it. I'm confident that they will do this and it will fix all of the spell and issues with the choice of colors that I have with the game.
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------->AoC.
"[Diablo1+2] obviously had the gothic look to it, but, you they weren't, they weren't very uh, very colorful games."
"We want to take dark as an emotion, rather than an actual color art choice." -Rob Pardo
"Why the hell shouldn't it be for 'kiddies', it's a goddamn game afterall." -lethlan
And that color palette does not fit. That's the issue. It takes the focus away from the incredible look of your character, the true power of how your spells looked, and puts it on the scenery.
If you take a look at AoC...
But seriously, Titan Quest did a good job with this. The spells were not lost by the background (EXCEPT for ice spells in act 3... oh my how annoying). Nothing in the game drew away from the action. The game still looked amazing and the scenery was very well done.
I can easily see the current graphics messing with the gameplay. Using TQ as an example, I often respecced my character out of ice (usually went with my fire spells) when I went through Act 3 because I simply could not see my spells. It also made my ice spells seem incredibly weak because they simply did not stick out at all.
That's kind of an issue.
For an idea of what I mean, look at locust swarm. You couldn't really see the spell work when it was in a green area. You COULD see the fire rather easily though, and it looked much more devastating.
Diablo 1 and 2's use of color allowed for all spell types to look incredible during all acts of the game. I don't see that happening here, and that's an issue.
Another issue is that the cathedral looks completely different.
Don't be afraid to take a chance, your skill will help the dice roll in your favor.
Be polite. Be efficient. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
I didn't get the intensity of it. Not at all. I saw a bunch of characters running around sort of slapping a skill down every now and then while the big monster pathed terribly trying to hit them but usually failing.
Then I saw a barbarian intentionally run into an attack of the big guy and trigger the death animation. That's not very intense, mainly because the boss didn't have an IMPRESSIVE attack. There didn't look like there was much skill involved there. No sense of urgency to get away from him as he clumsily tried to path himself around things.
A sense of urgency is trying to dodge Diablos fire wall or breath of fire. That's intense.
And then your spells look puny. See TQ third act when you are using ice spells. You can't even see them. The bright colors from the world detract from your character and attacks who SHOULD be the center of the action. I don't see any real reason to zoom in on my character if everything around him is as bright and colorful as he is.
The attacks of the Barbarian didn't look very... big. His charges didn't stick out, his bright colorful attacks were sort of lost due to the rest of the screen being colorful (notice the blue-green around everything in the dungeon... it detracts from... everything). The locust swarm looked pretty bland and uninspired as well as not very powerful for two reasons:
1. The bright green of the grass and the bright orange of the bushes didn't go well with the bright green of the spell.
2. The spell itself doesn't bring about a "OH MAN KABOOM" that all of the D2 spells had.
The fire spell looked fine because the ground was a different color.
That's sort of an issue.
Another thing I'd like to mention is that the ice spells from D2 still looked powerful in Act 5. Even when in the Icy Caverns and what not. They stuck out and looked powerful. The spells also emitted light... which made them look more powerful. With everything as bright as it is (INCLUDING THE CATHEDRAL!) I don't see this happening. Spells will just seem very weak.
Which was an issue in TQ.
Since TQ is a 3D game of the exact same nature.
The fire was fine, but the locust swarm was not. The barbarians special swings looked pretty bland when similar colors were all around you. Get rid of that blue-green in the cathedral and it'll be perfect. It will make it look older automatically.
The animation isn't a problem. It's the color. Not the brightness but the actual color itself. It doesn't contrast well with the world.
Aye Aye... couldn't agree more.
GIEV D3 INFOZ NAO! ( <---Poster from the official Bnet Forums)
"I'm sure that in time, every bit of her will be gone and her death will be a mystery... even to me."-Secret Window
He makes a good point thought that conveying the growing descent into hell should start off with the world in its 20 Year old more healed status. They also noted that Diablo Universe had a lot more color then they remember it, if you look at II it would sometimes light up like a rainbow of colors. The system is a studied area of color theory, if you have bright tones then darker tones will contrast those brighter tones.
Basically it means that you can develop something with an atmosphere that is acceptable but overtime the contrast created during the level progression will likely create a more uneasy feeling. These guys know what they're talking about, they are using well studied aspects of color and design. Why it doesn't fit the Diablo universe to all of you guys is beyond me, but I will continue to try and educate you on its application.
Did you download the high def version of the video?
Did they actually say it was? Or is this just speculation?
So far, it looks like we'll be exploring a living, breathing, but awfully brutal world, which is what I really want for D3. In some ways, I think this will make the situation Sanctuary is in feel more unfortunate and disheartening. The developers seem to be doing a great job at making the game brutal on a much deeper level, rather than using the tired, boring tricks we see in your average horror movie, or these so called horror games.
For me, I welcome and encourage an interesting, colorful world full of death and destruction.
More along the lines of... It looks nothing like the Cathedral in the first game.
It's been twenty years. The villagers could have easily expanded/changed the old cathedral. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they tore it down and rebuilt it from scratch, after all that happened there.
You, sir... have written the best argument of a fan yet.
diablo 3 enviroment feels so fake compared to diablo 2 imo
Jesus you guys are such whiners. How can people not see that everything is 100% better in the new stuff, especially the music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNz4bHfH2nY
thats just it though, with too much color its not 100% better, more like......80% better. They lose a lot of the gritty, dark, haunted, doomed feeling of the series that made it so conducive to a gothic fantasy. The only time i can remember it being that bright outside in Diablo 2 was when we were in the FREAKING DESERT!
As far as the music goes you are correct. It is very good, very epic. However i will miss some of those mysterious guitar songs from the previous game.....definitely made me think while playing my first and second time through single player.
However i will be very curious to see the "darker" parts of the game to see what they do with the color, as he explained that the style will change to convey mood. With all the color in the dungeon i thought of that game Overlord. Great fantasy game, lots of fun, but it was colorful and cartoony and it was MEANT to be.
Like i said, only time will tell.
Yes. I also had a problem discerning the difference between zombies on the zombie wall, although that's such a minor thing that it doesn't bother me. That would be kind of like complaining about not being able to see the individual flames on a firewall spell.
The problem was that it blended in rather easily with the grass. All they have to do, and I mean ALL they have to do to fix this is to make their lighting engine impressive. That's about it. I'm confident that they will do this and it will fix all of the spell and issues with the choice of colors that I have with the game.