This topic is exactly as useless as the topics you are preaching against which fail to use facts or reason to describe the situation. Congratulations on being just as annoying and useless as those you claim to dislike.
I think I'll start a thread complaining about those who complain about complainers. That should lead to some useful discussion.
You think I am dumb, right? Of course I played D1 & D2 regularly. NO I didn't use Godly full plate mail of the whale and stuff like that in D1 and I also didn't use ITH or bugged items in D2 1.09 or duped later on in the game. Gearing up in a new ladder season was fun, including runewords with selffound runes.
But still, gear was NOT a real requirement in order to kill something. It takes you one week max. from starting a new character to running through hell, but still gearing up in Diablo 2 is the main goal and is motivating, even though it is damn easy.
Regarding the Diablo 3 mechanics, how do you approach a fight with an elite phase beast pack having jailor, desecrator, arcane enchant and frozen/nightmarish if you see this beforehand?
The moment you see them they teleport on you, you are probably already in jail and 2 arcane enchants are spawning around you.
No problem to survive till now, but then they start making frost bombs while you run in fear from nightmarish, which alone made you run through the arcane sentries while 4 sword-wielding phase beasts thrash on you. But hey, I would have made it for sure if I had approached this correctly. Or simply outgeared it.
I don't think your dumb, I just don't think you are knowledgeable in what your talking about. Overall I'm assuming all your cool downs were off or your a glass cannon with no oh shit buttons. Gear was never a requirement to kill anything in D3 either (up to inferno), and D1 & D2 didn't have inferno mode. In all honesty D1 hell mode (solo) was nearly impossible without being cheap (apoc staff for the win or potion spamming).
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Diablo 1 in hell mode is not that difficult, there are several gameplay tricks (no not exploits) which make it pretty straight forward, even as a warrior or rogue. For example moving in a horizontal line makes it pretty unlikely to get hit by succubus projectiles. While doing so, chase them to a corner and slay them down.
Slaying melees in Level 16 is also no trick, just stand in the corner and max. 3 Knights can attack you at once which is survivable.
A simple stone curse fixed the range problem for melee. It's the fact that (unless you have the best gear) it took 6-10 hits to kill one monster and unless your standing in a door frame there weren't that much viable options (besides spells and potion spamming). You also needed a shield a very fast shield block to make that work or you would never get a hit off, again all these aspects lead to needing gear.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
It's not hard to find basic gear in D1 & D2 which makes hell pretty easy to farm. For fast block for example, just equip a stormshield as a rogue. Warriors got default fast block with any shield.
Yes because stormshields dropped like candy... Why would I play a ranged character to do gimped damage with a sword and shield? Fast block easy enough but with no other stats = you will die quickly unless you have lots of +vit /all stats & resists on your other gear which again requires farming. I don't remember warriors having an automatic fast block, they received a better bonus from said attribute but don't have it at default.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
All i see atm is "I am playing a stale build which i don't like, So i am going to disguise this QQ in a format that LOOKS like it makes sense - but it still all just boils down to that i have nothing really to say about it more then that i do not like it". No matter how many semantic shortcuts nor explanitory ways you pull out - Your point is not deepened, extended, nor made any more solid by the fact of this huge lack of substance beyond the "I do not like this".
What about explaining me, the one who can only QQ, how you would choose your build in a situation like the one I described above. Enlighten me, please.
You ever tried a Ranged barbarian build based on Throw Weapon with Stupify in combination with high mobility? Leap, Charge, etc. It's actually viable on Act 3 or higher, because the mobs hit so hard, that they could b4 nerf almost 2-3 shot each other. And assuming you have any brains at all (regarding positioning) - you can avoid a lot of the AoE's. And that's only one suggestion - beyond this i do not currently have the patience, time nor will to explain to you the ways of which you can be creative with your character - As you are still yielding the position of a closed mind, which does not wish to explore nor experiment.
The ranged barb was a fun build, but it just defeats the damn point of playing a barbarian, we don't want to kite ffs. It was also severly injured by the ias nerf
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Working with adobe and/or java is like pushing a paper clip against a building and expecting it to move...
While I understand what you are saying, that isn't to say the class isn't without it's issues. It wasn't until I equipped a couple mana regen items I could feel like a heavy hitter rom mana starvation. Its like this class has no in between for mana. Its either you go oom/use VQ or have too much of it.
Tbh calling ppls dumb becouse they're unhappy about curent state of WD is retarded. For example my GF's really unhappy about WD (although she's sticking to class anyway) becouse pets are garbage and there's no point in droping offensive stats for defensive becouse... pets remain garbage. So one of the primary class mechanics is in a really bad shape.
Playing barb myself i can tell that with 1.0.3. 90% skills became viable, some of them synergize extremly well in specific builds. Contrary WD's still have tons of underpowered skills without any sygergy, probably the clunkiest resource system.
When ppls say: it's fine, i killed X-boss with X-random build you should realise that at some point of gear progression you can kill anything pressing 1 button. When i entered Act 2 inferno on barb Belial claimed few of my corpses, week later i could right click him with freenzy avoiding metiors only, now i can right click him 3 times faster without a single defensive passive. I cleared Act 3 prenerf and was strugling for a week, but week later i've been doing 5NV Cydaea/Asmo runs in 30 mins.
IMO many ppls are complaining about WD not becouse they can't make him work, but becouse some core class aspects are lacking - namely pets and viability of defensive builds (and looking on passive/runes WD were supposed to be viable in tanky role). Blizz really need to take the closest look at WDs of all classes when they get to balancing.
P.S. No need to link videos of WD's going tank mode with loads of live-on-hit becouse every class can stack vitality/all res/armor/live-on-hit and somewhat tank. Just monks/barbs will do triple better dmg meanwhille having way more survivability with the same setup. Not to mention that live-on-hit with sick amounts of it on weapons/amulets is gamebreakingly bad mechanic and should be nerfed similar to IAS.
I think mana is fine. Some skills could use lower mana cost... mainly: acid cloud (172 -> 150), plague of toads (34 -> 15) and spirit barrage (108 -> 95).
There is no way that simply dropping Acid Cloud's mana cost by 22 is going to make it an attractive spell. 150 mana is still a ridiculous amount when you're looking at 60 mana/sec with 3 WD items at 10 mana/sec and Spiritual Attunement.
The problem with mana is multi-fold as I hinted at:
1) The cost of spells versus the size of our mana pool is out-of-whack for MANY of our offensive spells (plague of toads, acid cloud, zombie charger, spirit barrage)
2) Our primary skills *still* cut into our regen, if that's to be the case I'd suggest that base regen be bumped from 20 to 30. That would offset most of the loss from our primary skills. Most, not all.
3) Our primary skills are pretty weak without PtV. Our non-primary damage skills are generally too expensive to not use VQ or be supported by some fairly specific gear (bats, for example).
4) We *still* are the only class in the game which, in order to attain optimal resource generation, has to go down to 0 damage.
5) 1-4 generally contribute to us being forced into a handful of secondaries like PtV, VQ, SA.
These are all a direct result of mana being nowhere nearly as well-thought-out as the other resource systems.
It's true that some skill's damage/mana cost ratio are insane. However it's not a problem with the mana resource itself, but with particular skills.
The mana spending skill with the right mana cost/damage ratio is Dire Bats, Haunt, Bears and Carrion Swarm. Bears is really costy but it is one of the most devastating skills in the game. I think "primary" skilsl needs some love too. I don't think Blizzard guys understand how single target DPS is important in this game because of packs. Any spammable skill that do less then 150% weapon damage is pure gabarge. It simply don't give you enough power to deal with packs. And then they throw 130% weapon unreliable melee damage frogs at us...
And if anything, WD's mana is right while other classes recourses are wrong. The way I see it a character may choose to ignore all resource management means (runes, skills and items) but he will be using mostly free/cheap skills. As the player pick "heavier" skills he faces the dilema of sacrificing affixes/skills to maintain his resources up or simply starve. Extremely heavy cost builds need alot of support to work. By design this is how all resources should work. It's not like those class specific affixes, passive skills and runes are there for nothing !
Imo one of the biggest sources of imbalance in D3 is the misscost some skills have. Imean look at the DH. He got SICK damage skills for freaking cheap. An DH can pick his strongest skills and still ignore items, passives and runes that should be vital to make those heavy skills work. If anything, that kind of resource systen is broken.
I still hold my point: mana is not the issue ! Give some balance love to the WD and you guys will see that mana actually works.
In reading some of these, I think a lot more of the problem comes down to pets then we're thinking. Most of the comparisons here have been vs Wiz and DH (not all) for DPS, and Monk/Barb for survivability. Those comparisons aren't entirely fair, as we're supposed to be that mixed class - high surivivability due to pets, passives, and CC, but lower DPS to compesate for the inherit reduction in damage that ranged gets (cause it's harder for monsters to hit us).
The first problem is that pets really aren't viable middle to late Nightmare unless you plain over gear, or if you stack defense, in which case you do no damage (cause pets weren't built with high damage in mind). That means we're back to the run/hide/cc methods to survive, like the Wiz and DH, just with less damage. We still have some very nice CC, but they aren't overpowering enough to compensate for the lack of damage we have, unless we use some very specific builds (VQ Bats/ZB or splinters).
I think they could completley ignore damage and mana, but if they improved pets, and reduced the cost or cooldown for certain CC, then we'd be back to closer to balance. Sure, we might have to go OOM, but that'd be more from lack of planning, or spamming a skill when we shouldn't be.
I think what your forgetting is there are OP skills, there are balanced skills, and there are under powered skills, sure a class might be good if you pick the right skills obviously but that doesnt exclude the fact that some skills still need fixing
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I think I'll start a thread complaining about those who complain about complainers. That should lead to some useful discussion.
I don't think your dumb, I just don't think you are knowledgeable in what your talking about. Overall I'm assuming all your cool downs were off or your a glass cannon with no oh shit buttons. Gear was never a requirement to kill anything in D3 either (up to inferno), and D1 & D2 didn't have inferno mode. In all honesty D1 hell mode (solo) was nearly impossible without being cheap (apoc staff for the win or potion spamming).
A simple stone curse fixed the range problem for melee. It's the fact that (unless you have the best gear) it took 6-10 hits to kill one monster and unless your standing in a door frame there weren't that much viable options (besides spells and potion spamming). You also needed a shield a very fast shield block to make that work or you would never get a hit off, again all these aspects lead to needing gear.
Yes because stormshields dropped like candy... Why would I play a ranged character to do gimped damage with a sword and shield? Fast block easy enough but with no other stats = you will die quickly unless you have lots of +vit /all stats & resists on your other gear which again requires farming. I don't remember warriors having an automatic fast block, they received a better bonus from said attribute but don't have it at default.
The ranged barb was a fun build, but it just defeats the damn point of playing a barbarian, we don't want to kite ffs. It was also severly injured by the ias nerf
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Playing barb myself i can tell that with 1.0.3. 90% skills became viable, some of them synergize extremly well in specific builds. Contrary WD's still have tons of underpowered skills without any sygergy, probably the clunkiest resource system.
When ppls say: it's fine, i killed X-boss with X-random build you should realise that at some point of gear progression you can kill anything pressing 1 button. When i entered Act 2 inferno on barb Belial claimed few of my corpses, week later i could right click him with freenzy avoiding metiors only, now i can right click him 3 times faster without a single defensive passive. I cleared Act 3 prenerf and was strugling for a week, but week later i've been doing 5NV Cydaea/Asmo runs in 30 mins.
IMO many ppls are complaining about WD not becouse they can't make him work, but becouse some core class aspects are lacking - namely pets and viability of defensive builds (and looking on passive/runes WD were supposed to be viable in tanky role). Blizz really need to take the closest look at WDs of all classes when they get to balancing.
P.S. No need to link videos of WD's going tank mode with loads of live-on-hit becouse every class can stack vitality/all res/armor/live-on-hit and somewhat tank. Just monks/barbs will do triple better dmg meanwhille having way more survivability with the same setup. Not to mention that live-on-hit with sick amounts of it on weapons/amulets is gamebreakingly bad mechanic and should be nerfed similar to IAS.
There is no way that simply dropping Acid Cloud's mana cost by 22 is going to make it an attractive spell. 150 mana is still a ridiculous amount when you're looking at 60 mana/sec with 3 WD items at 10 mana/sec and Spiritual Attunement.
The problem with mana is multi-fold as I hinted at:
1) The cost of spells versus the size of our mana pool is out-of-whack for MANY of our offensive spells (plague of toads, acid cloud, zombie charger, spirit barrage)
2) Our primary skills *still* cut into our regen, if that's to be the case I'd suggest that base regen be bumped from 20 to 30. That would offset most of the loss from our primary skills. Most, not all.
3) Our primary skills are pretty weak without PtV. Our non-primary damage skills are generally too expensive to not use VQ or be supported by some fairly specific gear (bats, for example).
4) We *still* are the only class in the game which, in order to attain optimal resource generation, has to go down to 0 damage.
5) 1-4 generally contribute to us being forced into a handful of secondaries like PtV, VQ, SA.
These are all a direct result of mana being nowhere nearly as well-thought-out as the other resource systems.
The mana spending skill with the right mana cost/damage ratio is Dire Bats, Haunt, Bears and Carrion Swarm. Bears is really costy but it is one of the most devastating skills in the game. I think "primary" skilsl needs some love too. I don't think Blizzard guys understand how single target DPS is important in this game because of packs. Any spammable skill that do less then 150% weapon damage is pure gabarge. It simply don't give you enough power to deal with packs. And then they throw 130% weapon unreliable melee damage frogs at us...
And if anything, WD's mana is right while other classes recourses are wrong. The way I see it a character may choose to ignore all resource management means (runes, skills and items) but he will be using mostly free/cheap skills. As the player pick "heavier" skills he faces the dilema of sacrificing affixes/skills to maintain his resources up or simply starve. Extremely heavy cost builds need alot of support to work. By design this is how all resources should work. It's not like those class specific affixes, passive skills and runes are there for nothing !
Imo one of the biggest sources of imbalance in D3 is the misscost some skills have. Imean look at the DH. He got SICK damage skills for freaking cheap. An DH can pick his strongest skills and still ignore items, passives and runes that should be vital to make those heavy skills work. If anything, that kind of resource systen is broken.
I still hold my point: mana is not the issue ! Give some balance love to the WD and you guys will see that mana actually works.
The first problem is that pets really aren't viable middle to late Nightmare unless you plain over gear, or if you stack defense, in which case you do no damage (cause pets weren't built with high damage in mind). That means we're back to the run/hide/cc methods to survive, like the Wiz and DH, just with less damage. We still have some very nice CC, but they aren't overpowering enough to compensate for the lack of damage we have, unless we use some very specific builds (VQ Bats/ZB or splinters).
I think they could completley ignore damage and mana, but if they improved pets, and reduced the cost or cooldown for certain CC, then we'd be back to closer to balance. Sure, we might have to go OOM, but that'd be more from lack of planning, or spamming a skill when we shouldn't be.