I'm not going to give this guy the benefit of quoting his post to allow the screaming to continue. But as to the, "Magic find is not being a free stat." No one has ever said its a free stat. But lets see if you can follow me here.
It has 6 stats on it. Lets say that of our 2 items, 5 of the stats are the exactly the same. We're both wizards for simplicity. If you need to see the list of current affixes go for it: http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affixes
Lets say this item has: 5 offensive affixes and +MF on mine, and 6 offensive affixes on yours, but ATM there don't even seem to be 6 offensive affixes, so your 6th is globe radius or even a defensive stat.
Its true that MF is not free, but given the alternatives, you can trade a stat for MF and still have the same killing power.
case in point....hey guys herpty derp, if I outgear people, herp, then I do the same dmg, derp, so I deserve more loots!!
Ohh wait, thats right that didn't always hold true even before things were averaged. Ohh and ya know there is another problem, ya know like how you set the scenario up on a false pretense, you outgear everyone else....
troll much?
It's quite obvious he's not saying he out gears anyone or anything like that, in fact he's using the same exact item to compare. so if you guys were naked wearing only that helm, he'd have more MF and you'd pick up health globes from further away. You guys kill at the same speed, he has a better chance to get a blue, and you'll steal that health globe from him.
only read the first page and a half, and it's almost glaringly obvious that you're trolling hard. Either that or you're dumb.
Ok, let me whip out the crayons.
This is like 1+1 = 2 folks....
If he has 5 good stats + 1 MF and the other guy has only 5 good stats, then yah, he outgears him. How is this hard? Now that we have confirmed that 5 = 5, amazing I know, we can now clearly see that he based his scenario on a false premise.
Its just a poor attempt to circumnavigate around the real point, that you have to give up something in order to get MF. An accurate assessment would have you at 5 good stas + 1 MF, and the other equally geared person with 6 good stats.
6>5, thus he helps the group kill rate and/or survival more than you, whilst you help get better items.
I think that is a valid point. I was actually going to go with the 6 Offensive vs 5 Offensive and 1 MF, but I started looking at the current data mined affixes... http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affixes. Hopefully there will be more when the game is released, but when I was quicky going over it, I couldn't find 6 legitimate Offensive affixes. But on your point, sure, playing optimally the person with 6 offensive affixes vs 5 offensive affixes in theory can pump out more damage, but in that same regard, if they aren't playing to your same skill level why should they be rewarded?
I think it's stupid to argue about how much stacking MF will hurt your character. We won't know this answer until we get more information about the itemization in D3. If they have ability specific mods, you will definitely be giving up damage. Arguing about something based on assumptions or Beta items is just stupid.
I think anyone will agree that it will hurt your character a little bit. In fact, itemization would be a complete failure if you focus solely on MF without giving up at least a little bit of damage and survive-ability.
And out of curiosity, what makes you think that not everyone would just wear MF gear if it doesn't nerf you by that much anyway?
Because the masses are retarded. Its the same reason why people think they can still pull the same dps with MF as someone without MF who is leeching their MF. I do see the problem with your own MF, however there is also a problem with it being divided equally.
Compromise. Let people put their money where their mouth is. It would reward people who have "killing power," the original basis of the entire argument.
There are still problems with that. What if people are specced tank for inferno. Their dps wouldn't be good, but they sure as heck are helping the group and the damage formula couldn't account for that.
In the old system you could have one friend stack mf like mad and carry him and split the loot. Oh well, I can see why they changed it, but it is definitely not a perfect solution.
My point of view is that not all will end with godly dps gear when they arrive at inferno but still can have spared some good low level MF items and be useful to the group.
It is like having a MF Merc in D2, so if you can handle the difficulty level by yourself a MF-player will be way easier to protect.
No more "oh why did you jab him with iron maiden on you ... 50k to get back my MF Merc"
No matter how this is twisted and turned it doesn't change the fact that this is the best thing for the coop experience and the best team is still 4 balanced players.
And sure in the beta MF might be considered a free stat, but later when you need to focus on:
- Poison resist
- Fire resist
- Cold resist
- Lightning resist
- Arcane/Holy resist
- Vitality
- CC reduction
- your main damage stat
- different variants of Life leech
- More life per health globe
- Different types of damage affixes on weapon
- MANY MORE
I cant be bothered to list all the useful ones we know of, there are even more we don't know of.
But saying that MF doesn't cost the player or the group anything and that its a free stat is just BS.
The old system would let egoistic MF leechers get away with under performing while getting better items then the rest of the group, this new system benefits everyone in the group, looking at those that argue against this system makes me wonder which category of players they fall into.
Yes, the best thing for the coop experience is to have a MF party group who wont allow noobs to enter, 300% MF or gtfo.
And this WILL happen, and is exactly what will ruin the multi-player experience imo.
So dont play with random ppl and go play with your friends
That's part of the fun though, joining a random game meeting random people, not just sticking to the people you already know... what sort of hermit does that anyway? boooooooring, I have many on-line friends who I have met over the years by joining random games.
Your comment is confirmation that this is a step in the wrong direct for the multi-player experience, "oh lets make a game where people only want to play with irl friends, not want to network, or join and meet new people", "lets get rid of public chat while we're at it"
Sorry I know that wasn't your point, and was only trollin', but i personally think this is a terrible idea.
Just read most of this thread through - some read - why not take it down a notch, no?
If it is such a big deal whether or not you are to share your MF/GF to the group, a simple trick would be to add an option to create games with or without sharing of certain stats such as MF/GF/EXP etc. Then people can choose for themselves what suits them best.
In the power versus MF discussion I have gathered that:
-It seems in the mentioning of DPS/DEF that the more is considered better (which is absolutely true!), but not even that, it seems that more is also always needed in order to even make it in the later difficulties. So for obvious reasons, one cannot stack a stat like MF without not being viable in end game.
-It would also seem that those wanting to stack MF, do not (necessarily) want to share the MF with others, while still believing being capable of killing mobs at a sufficient rate to generate loot enough to yield that special item the MF you've stacked would contribute to, but not for the non-MF guy.
I would like to chime in as well..
To survive and kill mobs with a decent pace only takes as much. When you've reached that limit, you will be able to contribute to a group or solo, regardless of any other increase in power. This is not saying that you cannot grow even stronger, and kill mobs with at an even faster rate, but you are viable as far a power goes. Once that limit is reached, one can choose either getting stronger, or not. Instead of getting stronger - in terms of killing power that is - you could choose MF or any other or the sort. The tricky part is to find that spot where you generate enough loots (by killing things fast) with a high enough MF for that loots to yield a special item with the lowest possible interval. Some people choose the playstyle of a higher DPS rather than MF, some the other way round.
PS. I know some of you would argue that you are already saying this. And true, you are.. in a way. I just tried to spell it out even more
I say let's stop speculating about how endgame will be since we don't have a clue about the final/endgame itemization.
And give a chance to this system since it is at least better than the old system, I don't think it is perfect, but what can I say, I didn't even tried it. I say lets wait and see, all of this arguing is worthless at this point.
To early to say what will be the best combination of MF/DPS because the game don't even has a start date but all seems a personal choice.
By looking at Blizz games and how they are balanced I assume and this is only a speculation that:
- if you build around dps you will take a MF bot who has no dps to exploit this mechanic and to have MF without losing the "good stats"
- if you build around MF you want a group with high dps/survivability that will carry you.
and the tank - dps - healer trinity will be changed to meet the needs by tank - dps - support MF-er.
So one can still contribute in a way to the group not just predefined by class like in other games.
Everyone knows, that if you want to make a DPS char you will need MF char first for grinding. Each of us will try to find the ballance between the quick PvE and most MF, no one will go full DPS except on PvP. In this game loot is all, you get better loot with more MF... MF in this game is all... One of you said it in the beginning, if this is what we know about the game, things will go as follows:
1: Hi.
2: Hi.
1: MF?
2: 50
Player 1 has left the game...
I really like what Bojer, Tenhi, and Giuver has to say.
One thing I would like to point out that may have not been clear in my previous posts is, I do enfact like the current system better than the old one. The old one was too exploitable and Blizzard was proactive in stopping a problem before it started.
I do believe the new shared mf has its problems... but even then I don't think they will be as dramatic as people think. My idea that was posted on the official website is a step in the right direction, but it too as I and many others stated still has its problems. I'm sure blizzard has tested my idea or are in the process of testing something similar because they are too good to not try different options before just doing a quick kneejerk fix to an exploitable issue.
My suggestion was to reward people who put in the time or money with better gear that are doing more damage even though their MF was higher. They would be doing the opposite of what the optimal dpser crowd said they were doing, doing their fair share. I pointed out the major downfall to this idea would be people rushing elites/champions and bosses once one appears and ignoring the trash mobs. Of course, as some pointed out, some may have builds that won't do dps as fast as others but have other attributes like heals that help. I suppose you could add heals and damage taken/absorbed to the formula. One of the odder complaints I saw was people complaining that it would cause people to rush and zerg all over the place. My point to that is sooo? Is that not what we do when we farm anyway? By the time you start farming, you have already played the game through 4 times. As a matter of fact, I'd say those not rushing are leeching my time. Optimal DPS levels mean nothing if we spend half our time kicking white items around instead of killing monsters.
But back to less combative talk. First I will tell you what I don't like about the new shared MF and then I will tell you why in reality it probably won't be a big deal. I like to join pugs with people I don't know. I like to be randomly generous to a fellow player that doesn't quite have the gear he needs yet but often I can help myself in the process too. So in D2, I would join games where a player would be questing and I'd help him clear a quest or an act or whatever. I maybe searching for an item that drops in this area alot but pretty much anything else on the ground, I'd not even pick up so my fellow player or players in my group get all the drops. Sometimes if no good items dropped, I'd even bring a mule in and give them something. I didn't have to join this game, I could have made a private game and farmed my item all by myself. Now, I will be penalized for helping these lower geared players and it will be less likely for my item to drop. People are worried about a gear score as well. I think this will be an issue as well.
Now why for the most part, the shared mf won't be a big deal. Most players will have some MF. Most of us won't reach high MF that is viable for sometime (i would hope.) So we won't be having a lot of 0% averaged against us. Most of us will have around the same MF whatever that number will be. The average movement of the MF% from single player to shared group won't be worth all the fuss I would think and hope. I think the issue of less high gear level guys helping low level guys is actually a good game mechanic. It will slow the rate at which people increase their gear which will slow the rate they can farm which inturn slows the rate gear ends up on the AH or RMAH. In short, its almost like a built in inflation debuff.
One way to look at MF vs DPS is horsepower (DPS) vs fuel economy (MF.) Everyone needs a certain amount of horsepower to survive on an interstate but you don't need a 200 mph sports car. Sure, it might be fun but its unnecessary unless your racing (pvping ) Fuel economy will save you lots of money (rmah or time which is also money.)
My suggestion was to reward people who put in the time or money with better gear that are doing more damag
you obviously have not thought it through well enough, its a bad idea. And the reason u mentioned is just one of many. Some specs focus on crowdcontrol etc, some specs boost other party members by lowering defense of enemies or amplifying damage of other party members in many different ways, your suggestion discourages those specs. Rushing and zergn non stop isnt always fun or cooperative either.
Like I said, its not a perfect Idea, but also like I pointed out, neither is mf sharing. As far as rushing, zerging and farming are pretty much the samething in my opinion. Some may share another viewpoint, but when you are farming, you are being efficient as possible. Standing around doing whatever is not farming. If you are not farming, then MF is a bit less important. Sure its still important but your goal wasn't obviously to get the best gear as fast as you can so MF by extension would be less important. When having fun with a group is the goal, MF will take a backseat. This design does not hurt casual players (yet.)
I know I am gonna sound like a nostalgist, but in D2 farmers were encouraged to join games with other because there would be more loot drops. Even if they were not in your group, sometimes they would join up to help you overcome a mob that overpowered you. (of course this was before bots were running 24/7) It feels to me, now that farming is being encouraged to either group with people with close to the same mf or go it solo. I don't want to play an online game and be encouraged to be antisocial. That is also a bad idea. Gear Scores are a bad idea but... in reality both D1 and D2 had gear scores. If I remember right, you could actually look at someone else's gear in game in D1(plus you could see their health/mana number) In D2, by looks alone, you mainly knew what the other player was wearing. In D3, you will already know the tier of their gear and have an idea on what some of their affixes will be.
My point is I don't think MF sharing in its present form will stay long term (too many shortcomings.) I think it will change in a patch sometime down the line after release. My idea was a suggestion in a possible change. And like I said previously, I think blizzard probably has done some extensive testing on this and probably already has an idea on how it will look in the future. I never viewed Blizzard as a kneejerk reaction type of company. I don't think they are kneejerking here. I believe they believe this has the least amount of negative side effects early on, but as the game progresses overtime, the more negative the current MF design will be.
I know I am gonna sound like a nostalgist, but in D2 farmers were encouraged to join games with other because there would be more loot drops. Even if they were not in your group, sometimes they would join up to help you overcome a mob that overpowered you. (of course this was before bots were running 24/7) It feels to me, now that farming is being encouraged to either group with people with close to the same mf or go it solo. I don't want to play an online game and be encouraged to be antisocial. That is also a bad idea.
As far as I know, we are not yet aware of how the loot tables are affected by the numbers of players in a game in Diablo 3. In your quote that doesn't seem to be factored in, when mentioning the D3 aspect of farming. If loot does get more plentiful within a full populated game versus a single player game (still online, I know), then I don't see the big issue in sharing MF to a group. On the other hand, if it doesn't, then, as you say HeyseusKristos, the players are prompted to play alone, when their MF is so high that they always are the MF contributer to a group.
I think the suggestion of a fair share of the loot according to the effort in killing a mob is very neat, and would be the optimal solution, but I also think it is too difficult to factor in all the different aspects of how you could contribute to the succes of a group (E.g. the value of kiting a mob is hard to grade). It would require means to grade everything on numerical scale, which can be turned into a degree of contribution that in the end decides the MF given to each character based on the MF they each brought themselves to the group. If this was the mechanic of MF, I would definitely make my MF character so that it does the most valued thing, be it damage, healing or whatever - and most other would probably too. When all people are choosing the most beneficial playstyle, the group must be lacking in other terms. Again, this is not because I don't like the base idea, I just don't think it could be implemented to the full extent. It's like communism being the most fair social order in principle, but in reality it doesn't work out as the ideal. I'll admit that I do not have a better solution myself, other than the quick and rather cheap one I've mentioned earlier:
Make an option when creating a new game to choose whether or not you want the game to force a sharing of MF/GF/EXP.
I agree there sould be some form of incentive to play with other people, but then again, some enjoy playing alone more, and why should they be forced to group in order to obtain better gear on the same rate as people already in groups? The incentive given doesn't have to be better loot, but rather tougher challenges. I know there are some other interests here as well. I figure the longevity of a game is composed of many different things, one of which is the social side of the game, so if Blizzard want the game to last, they must (also) give the players the incentive to form groups and be social, to an extend of course.
As far as I know, we are not yet aware of how the loot tables are affected by the numbers of players in a game in Diablo 3. In your quote that doesn't seem to be factored in, when mentioning the D3 aspect of farming. If loot does get more plentiful within a full populated game versus a single player game (still online, I know), then I don't see the big issue in sharing MF to a group. On the other hand, if it doesn't, then, as you say HeyseusKristos, the players are prompted to play alone, when their MF is so high that they always are the MF contributer to a group.
I am fairly sure - even though I do not find the quote now - that Blizzard stated that loot per time unit did not change in multiplayer compared to single-player (at least that is what they are trying to achieve design wise).
Now that you mention it, I think you're right about this one
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Diablo 3.. can't wait!
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I think that is a valid point. I was actually going to go with the 6 Offensive vs 5 Offensive and 1 MF, but I started looking at the current data mined affixes... http://diablonut.incgamers.com/affixes. Hopefully there will be more when the game is released, but when I was quicky going over it, I couldn't find 6 legitimate Offensive affixes. But on your point, sure, playing optimally the person with 6 offensive affixes vs 5 offensive affixes in theory can pump out more damage, but in that same regard, if they aren't playing to your same skill level why should they be rewarded?
That's why I have slowly adjusted my position to HeyseusKristos's point. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4138436108?page=1
I think anyone will agree that it will hurt your character a little bit. In fact, itemization would be a complete failure if you focus solely on MF without giving up at least a little bit of damage and survive-ability.
Because the masses are retarded. Its the same reason why people think they can still pull the same dps with MF as someone without MF who is leeching their MF. I do see the problem with your own MF, however there is also a problem with it being divided equally.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4138436108?page=1
Compromise. Let people put their money where their mouth is. It would reward people who have "killing power," the original basis of the entire argument.
In the old system you could have one friend stack mf like mad and carry him and split the loot. Oh well, I can see why they changed it, but it is definitely not a perfect solution.
My point of view is that not all will end with godly dps gear when they arrive at inferno but still can have spared some good low level MF items and be useful to the group.
It is like having a MF Merc in D2, so if you can handle the difficulty level by yourself a MF-player will be way easier to protect.
No more "oh why did you jab him with iron maiden on you ... 50k to get back my MF Merc"
And sure in the beta MF might be considered a free stat, but later when you need to focus on:
- Poison resist
- Fire resist
- Cold resist
- Lightning resist
- Arcane/Holy resist
- Vitality
- CC reduction
- your main damage stat
- different variants of Life leech
- More life per health globe
- Different types of damage affixes on weapon
- MANY MORE
I cant be bothered to list all the useful ones we know of, there are even more we don't know of.
But saying that MF doesn't cost the player or the group anything and that its a free stat is just BS.
The old system would let egoistic MF leechers get away with under performing while getting better items then the rest of the group, this new system benefits everyone in the group, looking at those that argue against this system makes me wonder which category of players they fall into.
That's part of the fun though, joining a random game meeting random people, not just sticking to the people you already know... what sort of hermit does that anyway? boooooooring, I have many on-line friends who I have met over the years by joining random games.
Your comment is confirmation that this is a step in the wrong direct for the multi-player experience, "oh lets make a game where people only want to play with irl friends, not want to network, or join and meet new people", "lets get rid of public chat while we're at it"
Sorry I know that wasn't your point, and was only trollin', but i personally think this is a terrible idea.
If it is such a big deal whether or not you are to share your MF/GF to the group, a simple trick would be to add an option to create games with or without sharing of certain stats such as MF/GF/EXP etc. Then people can choose for themselves what suits them best.
In the power versus MF discussion I have gathered that:
-It seems in the mentioning of DPS/DEF that the more is considered better (which is absolutely true!), but not even that, it seems that more is also always needed in order to even make it in the later difficulties. So for obvious reasons, one cannot stack a stat like MF without not being viable in end game.
-It would also seem that those wanting to stack MF, do not (necessarily) want to share the MF with others, while still believing being capable of killing mobs at a sufficient rate to generate loot enough to yield that special item the MF you've stacked would contribute to, but not for the non-MF guy.
I would like to chime in as well..
To survive and kill mobs with a decent pace only takes as much. When you've reached that limit, you will be able to contribute to a group or solo, regardless of any other increase in power. This is not saying that you cannot grow even stronger, and kill mobs with at an even faster rate, but you are viable as far a power goes. Once that limit is reached, one can choose either getting stronger, or not. Instead of getting stronger - in terms of killing power that is - you could choose MF or any other or the sort. The tricky part is to find that spot where you generate enough loots (by killing things fast) with a high enough MF for that loots to yield a special item with the lowest possible interval. Some people choose the playstyle of a higher DPS rather than MF, some the other way round.
PS. I know some of you would argue that you are already saying this. And true, you are.. in a way. I just tried to spell it out even more
And give a chance to this system since it is at least better than the old system, I don't think it is perfect, but what can I say, I didn't even tried it. I say lets wait and see, all of this arguing is worthless at this point.
By looking at Blizz games and how they are balanced I assume and this is only a speculation that:
- if you build around dps you will take a MF bot who has no dps to exploit this mechanic and to have MF without losing the "good stats"
- if you build around MF you want a group with high dps/survivability that will carry you.
and the tank - dps - healer trinity will be changed to meet the needs by tank - dps - support MF-er.
So one can still contribute in a way to the group not just predefined by class like in other games.
1: Hi.
2: Hi.
1: MF?
2: 50
Player 1 has left the game...
One thing I would like to point out that may have not been clear in my previous posts is, I do enfact like the current system better than the old one. The old one was too exploitable and Blizzard was proactive in stopping a problem before it started.
I do believe the new shared mf has its problems... but even then I don't think they will be as dramatic as people think. My idea that was posted on the official website is a step in the right direction, but it too as I and many others stated still has its problems. I'm sure blizzard has tested my idea or are in the process of testing something similar because they are too good to not try different options before just doing a quick kneejerk fix to an exploitable issue.
My suggestion was to reward people who put in the time or money with better gear that are doing more damage even though their MF was higher. They would be doing the opposite of what the optimal dpser crowd said they were doing, doing their fair share. I pointed out the major downfall to this idea would be people rushing elites/champions and bosses once one appears and ignoring the trash mobs. Of course, as some pointed out, some may have builds that won't do dps as fast as others but have other attributes like heals that help. I suppose you could add heals and damage taken/absorbed to the formula. One of the odder complaints I saw was people complaining that it would cause people to rush and zerg all over the place. My point to that is sooo? Is that not what we do when we farm anyway? By the time you start farming, you have already played the game through 4 times. As a matter of fact, I'd say those not rushing are leeching my time. Optimal DPS levels mean nothing if we spend half our time kicking white items around instead of killing monsters.
But back to less combative talk. First I will tell you what I don't like about the new shared MF and then I will tell you why in reality it probably won't be a big deal. I like to join pugs with people I don't know. I like to be randomly generous to a fellow player that doesn't quite have the gear he needs yet but often I can help myself in the process too. So in D2, I would join games where a player would be questing and I'd help him clear a quest or an act or whatever. I maybe searching for an item that drops in this area alot but pretty much anything else on the ground, I'd not even pick up so my fellow player or players in my group get all the drops. Sometimes if no good items dropped, I'd even bring a mule in and give them something. I didn't have to join this game, I could have made a private game and farmed my item all by myself. Now, I will be penalized for helping these lower geared players and it will be less likely for my item to drop. People are worried about a gear score as well. I think this will be an issue as well.
Now why for the most part, the shared mf won't be a big deal. Most players will have some MF. Most of us won't reach high MF that is viable for sometime (i would hope.) So we won't be having a lot of 0% averaged against us. Most of us will have around the same MF whatever that number will be. The average movement of the MF% from single player to shared group won't be worth all the fuss I would think and hope. I think the issue of less high gear level guys helping low level guys is actually a good game mechanic. It will slow the rate at which people increase their gear which will slow the rate they can farm which inturn slows the rate gear ends up on the AH or RMAH. In short, its almost like a built in inflation debuff.
One way to look at MF vs DPS is horsepower (DPS) vs fuel economy (MF.) Everyone needs a certain amount of horsepower to survive on an interstate but you don't need a 200 mph sports car. Sure, it might be fun but its unnecessary unless your racing (pvping ) Fuel economy will save you lots of money (rmah or time which is also money.)
Like I said, its not a perfect Idea, but also like I pointed out, neither is mf sharing. As far as rushing, zerging and farming are pretty much the samething in my opinion. Some may share another viewpoint, but when you are farming, you are being efficient as possible. Standing around doing whatever is not farming. If you are not farming, then MF is a bit less important. Sure its still important but your goal wasn't obviously to get the best gear as fast as you can so MF by extension would be less important. When having fun with a group is the goal, MF will take a backseat. This design does not hurt casual players (yet.)
I know I am gonna sound like a nostalgist, but in D2 farmers were encouraged to join games with other because there would be more loot drops. Even if they were not in your group, sometimes they would join up to help you overcome a mob that overpowered you. (of course this was before bots were running 24/7) It feels to me, now that farming is being encouraged to either group with people with close to the same mf or go it solo. I don't want to play an online game and be encouraged to be antisocial. That is also a bad idea. Gear Scores are a bad idea but... in reality both D1 and D2 had gear scores. If I remember right, you could actually look at someone else's gear in game in D1(plus you could see their health/mana number) In D2, by looks alone, you mainly knew what the other player was wearing. In D3, you will already know the tier of their gear and have an idea on what some of their affixes will be.
My point is I don't think MF sharing in its present form will stay long term (too many shortcomings.) I think it will change in a patch sometime down the line after release. My idea was a suggestion in a possible change. And like I said previously, I think blizzard probably has done some extensive testing on this and probably already has an idea on how it will look in the future. I never viewed Blizzard as a kneejerk reaction type of company. I don't think they are kneejerking here. I believe they believe this has the least amount of negative side effects early on, but as the game progresses overtime, the more negative the current MF design will be.
As far as I know, we are not yet aware of how the loot tables are affected by the numbers of players in a game in Diablo 3. In your quote that doesn't seem to be factored in, when mentioning the D3 aspect of farming. If loot does get more plentiful within a full populated game versus a single player game (still online, I know), then I don't see the big issue in sharing MF to a group. On the other hand, if it doesn't, then, as you say HeyseusKristos, the players are prompted to play alone, when their MF is so high that they always are the MF contributer to a group.
I think the suggestion of a fair share of the loot according to the effort in killing a mob is very neat, and would be the optimal solution, but I also think it is too difficult to factor in all the different aspects of how you could contribute to the succes of a group (E.g. the value of kiting a mob is hard to grade). It would require means to grade everything on numerical scale, which can be turned into a degree of contribution that in the end decides the MF given to each character based on the MF they each brought themselves to the group. If this was the mechanic of MF, I would definitely make my MF character so that it does the most valued thing, be it damage, healing or whatever - and most other would probably too. When all people are choosing the most beneficial playstyle, the group must be lacking in other terms. Again, this is not because I don't like the base idea, I just don't think it could be implemented to the full extent. It's like communism being the most fair social order in principle, but in reality it doesn't work out as the ideal. I'll admit that I do not have a better solution myself, other than the quick and rather cheap one I've mentioned earlier:
Make an option when creating a new game to choose whether or not you want the game to force a sharing of MF/GF/EXP.
I agree there sould be some form of incentive to play with other people, but then again, some enjoy playing alone more, and why should they be forced to group in order to obtain better gear on the same rate as people already in groups? The incentive given doesn't have to be better loot, but rather tougher challenges. I know there are some other interests here as well. I figure the longevity of a game is composed of many different things, one of which is the social side of the game, so if Blizzard want the game to last, they must (also) give the players the incentive to form groups and be social, to an extend of course.