Maka I do see where you're coming from, but I guess I just can't see that many different variations in D2. I will still admit I've never played D1 and I know that one had a wildly diverse skill system but did D2 really offer that much diversity leveling up? I mean I can see a few ways of leveling a Druid. About 6 different start points anyhow.
I don't see how this isn't as diverse or better. You get a bunch of skills to choose from, mixing and matching at your leisure. Then you can go and start adding skills to them, limited at first but getting more options as you go. It is like a more open ended set of options then D2. If this is about other players, well most will always stick to the best option. It doesn't limit you that much does it?
Every single time you level a new character, you'll have the exact same skills and the exact same runes available at the exact same levels. How can anyone see this as a good thing?
How many of the same class are you planning on leveling? You know you only have 10 spots to share amongst 5 classes right? Essentially one for normal mode and one for survival mode.
Well, if you saw my D2 character screen, you'd know that I require way more than 10 spots. Do you think that everyone that plays/played D2 just got to Hell as quick as they could and then proceeded to grind? As someone said in another thread, you're overlooking the entire untwinked community. Just because most of them don't post on bnet or here doesn't mean they don't exist.
This isn't diablo2, so who cares how many character slots you used for leveling?
What is that? People who just level up a new toon just to level? I suppose there are people like that, but seeing as those characters are near worthless at low levels they could be deleted, or the person could get the characters to 60 and sell them. OR that person could simply buy another account.
That rare style of player hasn't been ignored, there are plenty of options available.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I'm happy for you that you were correct. But as someone who did not flame you nor care about constant bickering about runestones...
"Your arrogance offends me." (Liam Neeson)
Changes Blizzard makes in a positive direction are for Blizzard and Blizzard alone to boast about.
I'm happy for you that you were correct. But as someone who did not flame you nor care about constant bickering about runestones...
"Your arrogance offends me." (Liam Neeson)
Changes Blizzard makes in a positive direction are for Blizzard and Blizzard alone to boast about.
You pass judgement like a xtian.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Every single time you level a new character, you'll have the exact same skills and the exact same runes available at the exact same levels. How can anyone see this as a good thing?
How many of the same class are you planning on leveling? You know you only have 10 spots to share amongst 5 classes right? Essentially one for normal mode and one for survival mode.
Well, if you saw my D2 character screen, you'd know that I require way more than 10 spots. Do you think that everyone that plays/played D2 just got to Hell as quick as they could and then proceeded to grind? As someone said in another thread, you're overlooking the entire untwinked community. Just because most of them don't post on bnet or here doesn't mean they don't exist.
This isn't diablo2, so who cares how many character slots you used for leveling?
What is that? People who just level up a new toon just to level? I suppose there are people like that, but seeing as those characters are near worthless at low levels they could be deleted, or the person could get the characters to 60 and sell them. OR that person could simply buy another account.
That rare style of player hasn't been ignored, there are plenty of options available.
Apparently, you care enough to reply. You lost a good opportunity to be silent. Near worthless at low levels? I always finished Hell with them, it's not like I was creating characters and leaving them at level 10. Again, a good chance to be silent goes begging. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Yeah, you're right, plenty of options available....like spending $60 for 10 character spaces....that's what I call good value for money.
Yah if you are eccentric and just have to level new characters constantly, but can't bare to part with any of them, then its going to cost you $60. I don't see the problem here...
Ohh and they will give you the option to sell characters eventually, so that opens up a new avenue, and like I said you could always just delete them. I know some people who play WoW that have managed to fill up their 50 character slots. When they want to make another toon, they delete a previous one. I have even seen my friend delete a max'd level toon.
Why is it you always ignore every point but one and then rant about that one lil thing? The answer as already there.... I am basically just repeating myself.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
@Maka - dude u still stuck in diablo 2 mentality. Pls get over it. Diablo 2 is all about rerolls to make new char, and with powerleveling, easy way to buy high level runes and good stuff. Its easy mode once u get to the high levels....
Diablo 2 <> Diablo 3, so please please dont keep saying diablo 2 has this and I can do this in diablo 2... u still living in the past.
Diablo 3 has alot of new features that blizzard has put in, eg. New random maps that can be triggered. Different drop system from diablo 2, since they want ppl to go explore to farm rather than keep going to same area.
Honestly do u think everyone has time to keep farming to get all the runes to make their build for all 5 of their chars? Maybe u have that determination but not everyone. Why not have a game that all types of people can play and enjoy? I have been through diablo 2 and in truth I hated the rune words system cost it took lots and lots of farming and luck to get those high level runes. If the economy was broken by dupes, alot of people wont even be playing diablo 2. Remember diablo clone, if people didnt dupe sojs u think they can spawn it?
@Maka - dude u still stuck in diablo 2 mentality. Pls get over it. Diablo 2 is all about rerolls to make new char, and with powerleveling, easy way to buy high level runes and good stuff. Its easy mode once u get to the high levels....
Diablo 2 <> Diablo 3, so please please dont keep saying diablo 2 has this and I can do this in diablo 2... u still living in the past.
Diablo 3 has alot of new features that blizzard has put in, eg. New random maps that can be triggered. Different drop system from diablo 2, since they want ppl to go explore to farm rather than keep going to same area.
Honestly do u think everyone has time to keep farming to get all the runes to make their build for all 5 of their chars? Maybe u have that determination but not everyone. Why not have a game that all types of people can play and enjoy? I have been through diablo 2 and in truth I hated the rune words system cost it took lots and lots of farming and luck to get those high level runes. If the economy was broken by dupes, alot of people wont even be playing diablo 2. Remember diablo clone, if people didnt dupe sojs u think they can spawn it?
I wouldn't say Maka doesn't have his points, he is just looking at the glass as half empty all the time. He wants more storage space for more toons, and doesn't like deleting ones he has worked on. This is normal I mean if you spend weeks on something getting rid of it is hard.
I just think at some point you have to come to terms with the way Blizz made the mechanics, but I only am concerned about how invested he gets on his side.
Wow, you are either really thick or deceitful. I'll talk slow. Sorry...cranky.
When you start a new WD, you'll eventually reach level 6; you unlock a specific rune for poison dart. So you either use that rune, or no rune (and yes, it's always the same rune that unlocks). Then you reach level 8 (or whatever), and unlock a specific rune for grasp of the dead (and yes, it's always the same rune that unlocks). So, again, you either use that rune, or no rune. See a pattern? This will only begin to alleviate when the second 'round' of runes starts unlocking, and even then it'll be painfully slow, and still very much the same as your previous playthrough with a WD.
EDIT: okay, I found a video of the WD in this new patch. So, at level 6 you'll always unlock the rune Splinters, for Poison Dart. Always. At 13 Numbing Dart, and at 20 Spined Dart. So yeah, until level 20, you have the grand number of two alternatives to poison dart. And this applies to all other skills. Yes, the closer you get to 60, the more options you will have, but the first 20 or 25 levels will be pretty much the same for every single new character you decide to level.
@Shuggste: need? Who levels new characters because they need? It's fun to level new characters. Well, it was fun.
Ok, so like any other game you start out with a few options and gain new ons over time. So your character grows, and gets more abilities and this is a negative? Now your example basically says that at level 13 you get your first choice. Actually no, do you want 1 dart with 100% damage or 3 darts that will spread out and deal 59% weapon damage each. That is a choice, a very significant choice. From the beginning of getting the first rune. I may just want to maintain the strength and control of the single dart over the spread if of the three darts. So you think once a rune opens up you should automatically take it even if it is against your play style?
Well that is your choice, but not mine, and maybe not others. For you it is limited but for me it expanded at lvl 6, maybe when I roll a new WD I will use it from the beginning, see new play experience right there.
So now imagine a system where each time you level up you get to CHOOSE a rune for a given skill, instead of being forced to use splinter, you could pick one of the other runes.
The problem with the current system is that *almost* every <level 20 characer will look the same, because players will just pick the skills that allow the fastest levelling through act1/act2 based on the limited choice available (i.e. 2 rune choices by level 20 in some cases). There is also very little thought put in when you level up. If you get to choose, when you level up you can take a short break and read the rune descriptions and think "hmmm do I want multi darts or more DOT or knock back effect??" <-- this is the fun aspect we miss out on.
Also the choices are not fatal - if you really hate your rune choice, you only need to level up one or two levels (however it works) to get your next rune choice.
Wow, you are either really thick or deceitful. I'll talk slow. Sorry...cranky.
When you start a new WD, you'll eventually reach level 6; you unlock a specific rune for poison dart. So you either use that rune, or no rune (and yes, it's always the same rune that unlocks). Then you reach level 8 (or whatever), and unlock a specific rune for grasp of the dead (and yes, it's always the same rune that unlocks). So, again, you either use that rune, or no rune. See a pattern? This will only begin to alleviate when the second 'round' of runes starts unlocking, and even then it'll be painfully slow, and still very much the same as your previous playthrough with a WD.
EDIT: okay, I found a video of the WD in this new patch. So, at level 6 you'll always unlock the rune Splinters, for Poison Dart. Always. At 13 Numbing Dart, and at 20 Spined Dart. So yeah, until level 20, you have the grand number of two alternatives to poison dart. And this applies to all other skills. Yes, the closer you get to 60, the more options you will have, but the first 20 or 25 levels will be pretty much the same for every single new character you decide to level.
@Shuggste: need? Who levels new characters because they need? It's fun to level new characters. Well, it was fun.
Ok, so like any other game you start out with a few options and gain new ons over time. So your character grows, and gets more abilities and this is a negative? Now your example basically says that at level 13 you get your first choice. Actually no, do you want 1 dart with 100% damage or 3 darts that will spread out and deal 59% weapon damage each. That is a choice, a very significant choice. From the beginning of getting the first rune. I may just want to maintain the strength and control of the single dart over the spread if of the three darts. So you think once a rune opens up you should automatically take it even if it is against your play style?
Well that is your choice, but not mine, and maybe not others. For you it is limited but for me it expanded at lvl 6, maybe when I roll a new WD I will use it from the beginning, see new play experience right there.
So now imagine a system where each time you level up you get to CHOOSE a rune for a given skill, instead of being forced to use splinter, you could pick one of the other runes.
The problem with the current system is that *almost* every <level 20 characer will look the same, because players will just pick the skills that allow the fastest levelling through act1/act2 based on the limited choice available (i.e. 2 rune choices by level 20 in some cases). There is also very little thought put in when you level up. If you get to choose, when you level up you can take a short break and read the rune descriptions and think "hmmm do I want multi darts or more DOT or knock back effect??" <-- this is the fun aspect we miss out on.
Also the choices are not fatal - if you really hate your rune choice, you only need to level up one or two levels (however it works) to get your next rune choice.
If you want a stupid number of choices right off the bat, I suggest you play SWTOR. It tosses like every skill at you right off the bat. I can't imagine a noob to mmo's rpg style gameplay being able to play that game well from the start.
If you want an anti-noob friendly game, I suggest you go play that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
After reading Blizzard's explanation behind the change I am happy and at worst merely content with the new changes, although I do believe the ui needs a definite overhall. I was very excited about the colors and the boxes, but they just put this big old screen over the character and environment; it is an eye-sore. But all of this and more has been said, I am posting regarding the tonality and expression of the OP. I find it very amusing and enjoyable to read his attitude towards it. Whether or not he "called it" is irrelevant. He remains hysterical.
*This post is not sarcasm or designed to be insulting. It is a genuine compliment towards the original poster.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Dreaming of Beta...and turtles
mmmm....turtles.
Answered on the 12th with 275,000 other happy campers.
Sure it might be still a broken system, but it's a better one than the one they wanted to implement.
But sometimes it is necessary to still implement something that isn't perfect in order to move on an search for a better way.
That is what Blizzard is doing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I don't see how this isn't as diverse or better. You get a bunch of skills to choose from, mixing and matching at your leisure. Then you can go and start adding skills to them, limited at first but getting more options as you go. It is like a more open ended set of options then D2. If this is about other players, well most will always stick to the best option. It doesn't limit you that much does it?
This isn't diablo2, so who cares how many character slots you used for leveling?
What is that? People who just level up a new toon just to level? I suppose there are people like that, but seeing as those characters are near worthless at low levels they could be deleted, or the person could get the characters to 60 and sell them. OR that person could simply buy another account.
That rare style of player hasn't been ignored, there are plenty of options available.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
"Your arrogance offends me." (Liam Neeson)
Changes Blizzard makes in a positive direction are for Blizzard and Blizzard alone to boast about.
You pass judgement like a xtian.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Ohh and they will give you the option to sell characters eventually, so that opens up a new avenue, and like I said you could always just delete them. I know some people who play WoW that have managed to fill up their 50 character slots. When they want to make another toon, they delete a previous one. I have even seen my friend delete a max'd level toon.
Why is it you always ignore every point but one and then rant about that one lil thing? The answer as already there.... I am basically just repeating myself.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Diablo 2 <> Diablo 3, so please please dont keep saying diablo 2 has this and I can do this in diablo 2... u still living in the past.
Diablo 3 has alot of new features that blizzard has put in, eg. New random maps that can be triggered. Different drop system from diablo 2, since they want ppl to go explore to farm rather than keep going to same area.
Honestly do u think everyone has time to keep farming to get all the runes to make their build for all 5 of their chars? Maybe u have that determination but not everyone. Why not have a game that all types of people can play and enjoy? I have been through diablo 2 and in truth I hated the rune words system cost it took lots and lots of farming and luck to get those high level runes. If the economy was broken by dupes, alot of people wont even be playing diablo 2. Remember diablo clone, if people didnt dupe sojs u think they can spawn it?
I wouldn't say Maka doesn't have his points, he is just looking at the glass as half empty all the time. He wants more storage space for more toons, and doesn't like deleting ones he has worked on. This is normal I mean if you spend weeks on something getting rid of it is hard.
I just think at some point you have to come to terms with the way Blizz made the mechanics, but I only am concerned about how invested he gets on his side.
So now imagine a system where each time you level up you get to CHOOSE a rune for a given skill, instead of being forced to use splinter, you could pick one of the other runes.
The problem with the current system is that *almost* every <level 20 characer will look the same, because players will just pick the skills that allow the fastest levelling through act1/act2 based on the limited choice available (i.e. 2 rune choices by level 20 in some cases). There is also very little thought put in when you level up. If you get to choose, when you level up you can take a short break and read the rune descriptions and think "hmmm do I want multi darts or more DOT or knock back effect??" <-- this is the fun aspect we miss out on.
Also the choices are not fatal - if you really hate your rune choice, you only need to level up one or two levels (however it works) to get your next rune choice.
If you want a stupid number of choices right off the bat, I suggest you play SWTOR. It tosses like every skill at you right off the bat. I can't imagine a noob to mmo's rpg style gameplay being able to play that game well from the start.
If you want an anti-noob friendly game, I suggest you go play that.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
*This post is not sarcasm or designed to be insulting. It is a genuine compliment towards the original poster.
mmmm....turtles.
Answered on the 12th with 275,000 other happy campers.
But sometimes it is necessary to still implement something that isn't perfect in order to move on an search for a better way.
That is what Blizzard is doing.