But I told you so... I told you exactly why the runestone system would not work, and I was called a noob and flamed to no end. It was simply mathematically impossble, and there is no workaround for math.
Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
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Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
But I told you so... I told you exactly why the runestone system would not work, and I was called a noob and flamed to no end.
Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
This system is not a fix. It's a quick band aid solution. It's lazy and poorly implemented.
There basically ISN"T a rune system anymore. You simply have 25 major skills and you unlock variants as you level. End of story. No runes.
Their solution to the "runestone problem" was to remove runes period.
the new rune system is still semi flawed, like someone else posted in the other thread. to experience the full game you now have to be level 60 eg complete hell. a better way to approach the same system is to have those runes in multiple levels. so you can unlock all the different effect by level 30 and then unlocked the highest levels by level 60.
eg at level 6 a wizard unlock all level 1 runes for magic missle and at level 45 level all level 7 runes for magic missile
I think the new system is better than what they had before.
But the main complaint you'll see about the new system is that it forces you to choose particular runes with particular abilities. You still get to choose the actual abilties you use though, so there's still some variety.
Previously though you could choose any rune to go with all the skills you had as soon as you got the rune, and the runes were easy to get early on so you would at least have the lower ranks.
Although it might be more interesting (or annoying) having to adjust your skills based on what runes are available at that level.
the new rune system is still semi flawed, like someone else posted in the other thread. to experience the full game you now have to be level 60 eg complete hell. a better way to approach the same system is to have those runes in multiple levels. so you can unlock all the different effect by level 30 and then unlocked the highest levels by level 60.
eg at level 6 a wizard unlock all level 1 runes for magic missle and at level 45 level all level 7 runes for magic missile
That doesn't work for the simple reason that there are no more ranks for runes. ALL "skill runes" are fixed values roughly the same as rank 5 runes.
All runes are attuned to ranks 3-5 not just 5. Like the other person said. This is a band-aid to rush the game out the door. The only similarity to the rune system now is they call them runes. Thats all nothing more.
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Went outside today, the graphics were ok. But the gameplay sucked
Anybody else think it's about time for a release date? Like, seriously. No more like "Well, I guess I can wait..." ... I'm at that, "It's time" point.
Runes just implemented, it's February 20th, a Monday, and almost March. If this game is coming in the next two months, it's time.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
I have to agrea with Faithful. Eventhough you dont like the new runesystem consider what the old was. Just drop an item in and spell x does this. The only thing changed is the method, in the end it still gives you the same options.
Anybody else think it's about time for a release date? Like, seriously. No more like "Well, I guess I can wait..." ... I'm at that, "It's time" point.
Runes just implemented, it's February 20th, a Monday, and almost March. If this game is coming in the next two months, it's time.
You mean Runes were just removed from the game.
What were runes to begin with, I'm a little unclear?
If I read correctly there were over 3,000 runes in the game, ranks 1-5 or something, and each level did the same thing visually to the ability but made it a little more powerful, and those visual effects were like, maybe spark out differently, or turn red, or look like a glowing crystal instead of a circle, or make a fireball skip a little longer below blowing up. Which is what they do now, you just don't have to watch for them to drop off bosses, you instead have to actually play and level your character.
In Diablo 2, Runes were limited items used to modify existing gear or to make runewords, the runes in Diablo 3 were never remotely close to that concept. Whoever thought up the idea of the original idea for runes in Diablo 3 (just like those 9,000,000 varities of gems) should have been fired.
No mass collection in a Hack n Slash, kthx. I'm not catching all the Unowns and putting them in my PokeBox.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
considering how hardcore blizzard is about catering to casuals. they will definitely change this. why? because if you have to be max level to experience all of the types of skills people will complain because they "dont have time to get to 60 just to test some skills". so they will change this because of casuals. which in this specific case is a good thing.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
the new rune system is still semi flawed, like someone else posted in the other thread. to experience the full game you now have to be level 60 eg complete hell. a better way to approach the same system is to have those runes in multiple levels. so you can unlock all the different effect by level 30 and then unlocked the highest levels by level 60.
eg at level 6 a wizard unlock all level 1 runes for magic missle and at level 45 level all level 7 runes for magic missile
You need to be level 60 to experience the whole game no matter how the rune system works :-P
Unlocking one rune at a time is a better system anyway. The way skill swapping works its going to be important to know how all the different skill/rune combos work. Its much less daunting to only have one or two new things to try out each level instead of getting all the new rune effect in one batch. The skill system rewards you for knowing which skills to put on your hotkeys in which situations, so if you aren't learning about all your options you won't be playing to your full potential. Even if you've spent hours looking at all the skills and rune effects in a skill calculator, you can't really evaluate them until you try them out first-hand, so this isn't just a benefit to noobs.
I understand their decision to remove the runes as items, cause it would fill up alot of bagspace and be very annoying to deal with when you have alot.
But I loved the fact that they were items, you were always so excited when runes dropped in D2, and I could only imagine it would be the same even though its 2 complete different systems.
Except the runes in D3 are nothing like the runes in D2. The D2 runes were consumable items that were essentially gone once you used them for a runeword or a cube recipe. Getting new runes was always exciting because there was always something more you could do with them. The D3 runes were recyclable so once you got what you needed any future drops would be useless to you. You might try to sell the, but everyone else is in the same boat as you, so who would want to buy them besides a vendor?
The only real solution this that problem would be to destroy runes when you change them. This would prop up demand, but would make it considerably more costly to swap skill effects. They clearly want changing skills to be easy, so that solution is no go.
Really the only issue with the new system is rough edges of the UI when in advanced mode. Other than that, it definitely feels like a big improvement over the old system when playing the beta and seems like this should be the case all the way to level 60.
the new rune system is still semi flawed, like someone else posted in the other thread. to experience the full game you now have to be level 60 eg complete hell. a better way to approach the same system is to have those runes in multiple levels. so you can unlock all the different effect by level 30 and then unlocked the highest levels by level 60.
eg at level 6 a wizard unlock all level 1 runes for magic missle and at level 45 level all level 7 runes for magic missile
Even thought i understand what you saying we gotta also agree that its a trade off to the dead zone from lv31-60 we were going to have, i mean can you really level 30 levels without getting ANYTHING new but gear from drops ?
Yeah, the new patch brough alot of changes to the rune system, some for the better, some for the worse but in MY eyes, most of them are positive.
Now give Blizzard time to fix the things they added, im sure its not set on stone, at least im hoping it isnt cuz the UI is far from good.
Yeah, I really don't get all the hate that has been fired at this new system, for starters, you save inventory space, therefore seeing as the "endgame is all about the item hunt" ( as so many say when they want runes to be dropped items again) you will have more of a chance to get loot and a more space to fill it up with. I know personally I would much prefer to get a shiny new weapon or pants to yet another rank of rune stone, sure I like my skills being better, but if it's all about the item hunt.
People then complain about having to be level 60 and it nerfs the huge amounts of customisation it actually provides. HOW DOES GETTING EVERY RUNE BY LEVEL 60 NERF CUSTOMISATION!??!?!?! It gives you limitless, sure not as much during the level up process, but how many of us are going to stuck <60 after the first few weeks? Of the people these sorts of things trully affect, very few will be <60. Previously, trying to get all the runes would never had of happened, seriously, 24 skills x 5 classes x 5 rune types x 7 rune ranks give you 4200 different runes in the game, not only is the inventory space a pain to manage, but you aren't guarenteed your "customisation" compared with the new systems. Therefore it a very high fact that you may have never actually got to try your build you wanted.
Additionally, months ago even weeks in some cases I read posts about people complaining about what about 30-60, we have our build now we have to beat 3 new difficulties with nothing new in skills to look forward to, and now they are complaining we can't try our build til 60, I mean seriously, what is wrong with you, your about as useful to these forums as a condom vending machine in the Vatican.
Furthermore by having a stated rank, rank 4/5 fixed as the new system as stated by Jay, it gives the potential for more item affixes which can improve your runes (as for sice the runes have been established in one way or another there have been 7 ranks thusly affixes could be implement as a filler for the remainding skill output) and therefore the actual event of the "item hunt" adds more customisational feel, more affixes = more customisation. For example, you could choose between a general damage boost or just a boost of 1 skill by x amount, you have a choice and which way you want to customise, damage vs skill effectiveness.
Don't get me wrong, I love the A-RPG item hunt style, and having been waiting for this game for as long as the rest of you diablo nerds, but having to go through a game that has already more loot than D2, trying to get the best Gems to socket my gear to which to which takes what >19000 rank 1 gems or rank 5 gems or somethig to get just 1 top rank gem, as well as finding all the black smithing/gem patterns and then try to search through an additional 4200 rune items to get to the build I want to play, was flawed.
Im really happy about the changes, and this way, it will give the people with a gaming attention span of a normal play through, more of a reason to play the higher difficulties.
In terms of effectiveness I liked the first system more, so long as same runes could stack and not clutter your inventory. The second was a total bust and this one is ok.
Somebody in another thread suggested getting to choose which rune effects you unlock as you level up - I think that that's a brilliant compromise!
In any case, I do think that solving the problem of there being a deadzone between lvls 30-60 is really good. It really will make the leveling process feel more meaningful, though I agree that it sucks that we'll have to beat Hell before we actually have access to the full suite of rune effects (especially since a particular rune effect may be a very important component for a build we have in mind...we wouldn't be able to use that build until Inferno or something T_T.
However, it IS a good way to motivate casuals to play the game beyond Normal. I know that when I first played D2, I didn't really feel compelled to try Nightmare. However, the lure of new effects/alterations to your skills will compel a good deal of casuals to advance to Nightmare once they beat Normal :).
I really like the new system, and I really don't think they will be changing it again. People have made the point, and a good one it is, that there will be people who may not get to lvl 60, but this isn't a game like WoW, where you have to get to max level before you can see the whole game, you can beat all of the acts before hitting level 30 if you just blaze through. If the time to level stays consistant to what it is in the beta, if your doing full clears, you'll be level 30 before you finish normal, and unless they seriously ramp up the time it takes to level in NM (which we obviously don't know about yet so it's hard to say if this has been done) we'll be level 60 by the end of it, not the end of Hell. I think the level 60 at the end of hell would be if you went straight through only exploring what you had to continue in the story, it's going to be really hard to scale the leveling procress with the wide variety of play styles there are. Hell in D2 everytime I logged off I cleared everything again up to where I was (meaning the part of the zone I had just come from.) And I was way ahead of where I should have been as I went.
Now, I do think they will change the UI, there has been so much hate of it, that I just can't see it staying how it is, it's a horrible UI in my opinion, and I think it is part of why people aren't liking the new system, because they are more focused on how crappy the UI is, and how we can't see anything until we unlock it at that level, so people can't see that it's pretty much the same system, but you don't have to hunt down the runestones now.
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Ohh now dont feel bad, there are some serious drawbacks to always being right. For example, life has very few cliff-hangers.
PS: To all the people crying about the removal of a terriblly broken runestone system, and discussing how to fix the new runeskill system, I would just like to ask you one thing. WTF are you talking about? Fist off Its not broken, it replaced a broken system, and now they finally have a system that fking works!! Secondly, given the short time frame til launch do you actually think they will replace this idea? Hint: No
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
This system is not a fix. It's a quick band aid solution. It's lazy and poorly implemented.
There basically ISN"T a rune system anymore. You simply have 25 major skills and you unlock variants as you level. End of story. No runes.
Their solution to the "runestone problem" was to remove runes period.
eg at level 6 a wizard unlock all level 1 runes for magic missle and at level 45 level all level 7 runes for magic missile
But the main complaint you'll see about the new system is that it forces you to choose particular runes with particular abilities. You still get to choose the actual abilties you use though, so there's still some variety.
Previously though you could choose any rune to go with all the skills you had as soon as you got the rune, and the runes were easy to get early on so you would at least have the lower ranks.
Although it might be more interesting (or annoying) having to adjust your skills based on what runes are available at that level.
That doesn't work for the simple reason that there are no more ranks for runes. ALL "skill runes" are fixed values roughly the same as rank 5 runes.
Runes just implemented, it's February 20th, a Monday, and almost March. If this game is coming in the next two months, it's time.
Hell yes!!! There's absolutely nothing else they can do to utterly ruin this game!
trollface.jpg
Seriously though, c'mooon early April release!!!
On-topic: Finding runes was super awesome, but this is a better implementation of the system for obvious reasons. The end.
You mean Runes were just removed from the game.
What were runes to begin with, I'm a little unclear?
If I read correctly there were over 3,000 runes in the game, ranks 1-5 or something, and each level did the same thing visually to the ability but made it a little more powerful, and those visual effects were like, maybe spark out differently, or turn red, or look like a glowing crystal instead of a circle, or make a fireball skip a little longer below blowing up. Which is what they do now, you just don't have to watch for them to drop off bosses, you instead have to actually play and level your character.
In Diablo 2, Runes were limited items used to modify existing gear or to make runewords, the runes in Diablo 3 were never remotely close to that concept. Whoever thought up the idea of the original idea for runes in Diablo 3 (just like those 9,000,000 varities of gems) should have been fired.
No mass collection in a Hack n Slash, kthx. I'm not catching all the Unowns and putting them in my PokeBox.
You need to be level 60 to experience the whole game no matter how the rune system works :-P
Unlocking one rune at a time is a better system anyway. The way skill swapping works its going to be important to know how all the different skill/rune combos work. Its much less daunting to only have one or two new things to try out each level instead of getting all the new rune effect in one batch. The skill system rewards you for knowing which skills to put on your hotkeys in which situations, so if you aren't learning about all your options you won't be playing to your full potential. Even if you've spent hours looking at all the skills and rune effects in a skill calculator, you can't really evaluate them until you try them out first-hand, so this isn't just a benefit to noobs.
And that they do the same thing, and are used in the same way... In fact, the only difference is how you gain access to the rune effect now.
Except the runes in D3 are nothing like the runes in D2. The D2 runes were consumable items that were essentially gone once you used them for a runeword or a cube recipe. Getting new runes was always exciting because there was always something more you could do with them. The D3 runes were recyclable so once you got what you needed any future drops would be useless to you. You might try to sell the, but everyone else is in the same boat as you, so who would want to buy them besides a vendor?
The only real solution this that problem would be to destroy runes when you change them. This would prop up demand, but would make it considerably more costly to swap skill effects. They clearly want changing skills to be easy, so that solution is no go.
Really the only issue with the new system is rough edges of the UI when in advanced mode. Other than that, it definitely feels like a big improvement over the old system when playing the beta and seems like this should be the case all the way to level 60.
Even thought i understand what you saying we gotta also agree that its a trade off to the dead zone from lv31-60 we were going to have, i mean can you really level 30 levels without getting ANYTHING new but gear from drops ?
Yeah, the new patch brough alot of changes to the rune system, some for the better, some for the worse but in MY eyes, most of them are positive.
Now give Blizzard time to fix the things they added, im sure its not set on stone, at least im hoping it isnt cuz the UI is far from good.
People then complain about having to be level 60 and it nerfs the huge amounts of customisation it actually provides. HOW DOES GETTING EVERY RUNE BY LEVEL 60 NERF CUSTOMISATION!??!?!?! It gives you limitless, sure not as much during the level up process, but how many of us are going to stuck <60 after the first few weeks? Of the people these sorts of things trully affect, very few will be <60. Previously, trying to get all the runes would never had of happened, seriously, 24 skills x 5 classes x 5 rune types x 7 rune ranks give you 4200 different runes in the game, not only is the inventory space a pain to manage, but you aren't guarenteed your "customisation" compared with the new systems. Therefore it a very high fact that you may have never actually got to try your build you wanted.
Additionally, months ago even weeks in some cases I read posts about people complaining about what about 30-60, we have our build now we have to beat 3 new difficulties with nothing new in skills to look forward to, and now they are complaining we can't try our build til 60, I mean seriously, what is wrong with you, your about as useful to these forums as a condom vending machine in the Vatican.
Furthermore by having a stated rank, rank 4/5 fixed as the new system as stated by Jay, it gives the potential for more item affixes which can improve your runes (as for sice the runes have been established in one way or another there have been 7 ranks thusly affixes could be implement as a filler for the remainding skill output) and therefore the actual event of the "item hunt" adds more customisational feel, more affixes = more customisation. For example, you could choose between a general damage boost or just a boost of 1 skill by x amount, you have a choice and which way you want to customise, damage vs skill effectiveness.
Don't get me wrong, I love the A-RPG item hunt style, and having been waiting for this game for as long as the rest of you diablo nerds, but having to go through a game that has already more loot than D2, trying to get the best Gems to socket my gear to which to which takes what >19000 rank 1 gems or rank 5 gems or somethig to get just 1 top rank gem, as well as finding all the black smithing/gem patterns and then try to search through an additional 4200 rune items to get to the build I want to play, was flawed.
Im really happy about the changes, and this way, it will give the people with a gaming attention span of a normal play through, more of a reason to play the higher difficulties.
/end rank
In any case, I do think that solving the problem of there being a deadzone between lvls 30-60 is really good. It really will make the leveling process feel more meaningful, though I agree that it sucks that we'll have to beat Hell before we actually have access to the full suite of rune effects (especially since a particular rune effect may be a very important component for a build we have in mind...we wouldn't be able to use that build until Inferno or something T_T.
However, it IS a good way to motivate casuals to play the game beyond Normal. I know that when I first played D2, I didn't really feel compelled to try Nightmare. However, the lure of new effects/alterations to your skills will compel a good deal of casuals to advance to Nightmare once they beat Normal :).
Now, I do think they will change the UI, there has been so much hate of it, that I just can't see it staying how it is, it's a horrible UI in my opinion, and I think it is part of why people aren't liking the new system, because they are more focused on how crappy the UI is, and how we can't see anything until we unlock it at that level, so people can't see that it's pretty much the same system, but you don't have to hunt down the runestones now.
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the aspects of the game you want to know about? Check us out!