The only time you would ever think to upgrade to a rank 14 is if you had every gear socketed with Rank13 gems, and 2 more Rank13 gems in your bag.
So lets assume you have, 10 sockets in your gear.
To even consider upgrading you would need 10 Rank13 gems in gear, and another 2 more Rank13 gems in your bag.
To create 12*Rank13 gems from Rank7 gems requires,
12*3^6 = 8748 gems
Now we have to assume you play 4 hours a day.
Now, we have to come up with a figure for gems/hour.
4 gem drops / hour
1 gem purchases / hour (Equates to 4 bought per day and 1750 gems in total)
Total: 5 gem/hour
The equation to acquire your 1st Rank14 gem is simple, Time = 3^(13-r)*(s+2)/a/t
Where,
r = Base gem Rank = 7
s = Number of sockets = 10 sockets
a = Gem acquire rate = 5 gems/hour
t = Average hours played per day = 4 hours/day
For our example,
Time for 1st Rank14 = 3^(13-7)*(10+2)/5/4 = 437.4 days =1.198 years
In other words, it will take 437.4 days at an average of 4 hours played per day to acquire 9*Rank13 gems and your first Rank14 gem.
The equation to acquire all Rank14 gems, Time2 = 3^(14-r)*(s)/a/t
For our example,
Time2 = 3^(14-7)*10/5/4 = 1094 days = 2.996 years
It will take 2.996 years to acquire 10*Rank14 gems.
Note1: This # assumes that you either do not care about color, and/or you trade unwanted colors. It would take drastically longer, if you only wanted to socket gems of a certain color.
Note2: It will take at minimum an additional 4 hours to combine all those gems.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Now, we have to come up with a figure for gems/hour.
4 gem drops / hour
1 gem purchases / hour (Equates to 4 bought per day and 1750 gems in total)
Total: 5 gem/hour
I would have to say that this section is so variable and inconsistent that it makes this impossible to "calculate".
Now, we have to come up with a figure for gems/hour.
4 gem drops / hour
1 gem purchases / hour (Equates to 4 bought per day and 1750 gems in total)
Total: 5 gem/hour
I would have to say that this section is so variable and inconsistent that it makes this impossible to "calculate".
Well it is obviously not impossible, I just did it.
On the other hand, you could say its improbable that we could guess the proper drop rate.
However, I would argue against that as well. The upper and lower limits of gem acquire rate are very close numerically speaking. In other words, gem acquire rate has to be above 0, but below the rate at which you can kill and loot mobs. However, given our knowledge of D2, and the information we have gotten from the creators of D3 we can narrow that number ever further.
Obviously every mob wont drop a gem, likewise, being permanent, it is safe to assume the drop rate wont be ridiculous either. Calculating all probable drop rates is easy, might take 5 minutes in excel. Picking the correct one from the list is the hard part.
You may think, 5 per hour is low. Ok, but it is variable in an equation, and can easily be changed. What do you think is a better gem acquire rate?
Note, this is not the time frame to get just one Rank14 gem, it is a timeframe to get 9 Rank13 gems and 1 Rank14 gem.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
To create 12*Rank10 gems from Rank7 gems requires,
12*3^6 = 8748 gems
Umm... nope.
12 Rank10 gems from Rank7 requires
12*3^(10-7) = 12*3^3 = 324 gems
You had the correct formula further down, so this must just be a typo/brain lapse
edit: I assume the typo was in the Rank10, that should be Rank13.
Also, why are you assuming we'll be gathering rank7 the whole time? From what I've heard, the highest common drops (not including quest rewards and such) will be rank5.
It does not mean that all gem drops will be level 7 in Infernal.
I can see the drop rate as being higher than 4 gems per hour but in Infernal I can see that you still get level 6 and or level 5 ones dropping. I hope you do not see any lower than that. I see the drop rate for the lower gems to be higher. The question is if it worthwhile to pick up any grade gems and upgrade them knowing that it takes a much larger amounts to get to the highest tier. I will also add quite some time in upgrade process as well.
I do not know if we can buy or gamble for gems if we can than that can make a significant change to the amount of time needed to get highest tier. But I do see it as an option but the quality would be quite low if you can.
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On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
Some fallout 4 mod makers have had their mods stolen and uploaded and downloaded on Bethesda's site for the Xbox One.
ahhhhhh this reminds me of geometric progression's that we did earlier in maths. There will be thousands if not millions of players playing this game, the first rank 14 gem will come quite quickly.
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"A lot of fellows nowadays have a B.A., M.D., or Ph.D. Unfortunately, they don't have a J.O.B."
It does not mean that all gem drops will be level 7 in Infernal.
I can see the drop rate as being higher than 4 gems per hour but in Infernal I can see that you still get level 6 and or level 5 ones dropping. I hope you do not see any lower than that. I see the drop rate for the lower gems to be higher. The question is if it worthwhile to pick up any grade gems and upgrade them knowing that it takes a much larger amounts to get to the highest tier. I will also add quite some time in upgrade process as well.
I do not know if we can buy or gamble for gems if we can than that can make a significant change to the amount of time needed to get highest tier. But I do see it as an option but the quality would be quite low if you can.
I suspect the lower level gems (3 and down) dropping in inferno will be quite rare just as finding a normal or less in hell in Diablo 2 was. That said, if we've already got a level 60 character that's farming gems in inferno, if you start another character from scratch, it probably won't be worthwhile picking up the gems. It's just not worth it.
We don't know yet how many ranks of the gems will drop. I'm pretty sure it'll be higher than rank 5 though seeing as there are 14 ranks of each gem type.
You're probably right, but I doubt level 7 will make it into the game. There is a reason they added 14 levels in the first place - it's meant to be a long term goal!
It does not mean that all gem drops will be level 7 in Infernal.
I can see the drop rate as being higher than 4 gems per hour but in Infernal I can see that you still get level 6 and or level 5 ones dropping. I hope you do not see any lower than that. I see the drop rate for the lower gems to be higher. The question is if it worthwhile to pick up any grade gems and upgrade them knowing that it takes a much larger amounts to get to the highest tier. I will also add quite some time in upgrade process as well.
I do not know if we can buy or gamble for gems if we can than that can make a significant change to the amount of time needed to get highest tier. But I do see it as an option but the quality would be quite low if you can.
Yah,I was thinking the same thing. It likely wont be worth your time to fool with gems below Rank5.
And if Rank5,6,7 all drop in inferno, which they probably will, then that can drastically lower the gem acquire rate.
ahhhhhh this reminds me of geometric progression's that we did earlier in maths. There will be thousands if not millions of players playing this game, the first rank 14 gem will come quite quickly.
That is a distinct possibility.
A group of farmers, or wealthy people will likely be able to acquire an absurd amount of gems quickly, but this math doesnt have anything to do with those people.
"This time frame is intended for people who desire to get the most of their toons, and not simply rushing to acquire a Rank14 gem ASAP."
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Also, why are you assuming we'll be gathering rank7 the whole time? From what I've heard, the highest common drops (not including quest rewards and such) will be rank5.
The problem is that if you consider Rank5 & Rank6, the time frames become ridiculous.
If best gem drop is Rank5, r=5
3^(13-5)*(10+2)/5/4 = 3937 days = 10.79 years
If best gem drop is Rank6, r=6
3^(13-6)*(10+2)/5/4 = 1312 days = 3.595 years
You have to remember a couple things,
#1 This time frame only starts AFTER you reach an appropriate level/gear.
#2 Most people make multiple characters, and this time frame is for EACH toon. If we started at Rank6, it would take about 17.5 years, not including the time to level/gear your toons, to get a 9*Rank13 gems & 1*Rank14 gem.
Blue post,
Quote from name="Bashiok 04/08/2011 10:54:15 AM PDT" »
We'll probably be dropping gems a couple levels further than the 5th (as previously stated), which should help. We also want to make sure it doesn't become a pain to have a ton of gems sitting around waiting for another one to upgrade, so there may be some crafting solutions that help with that. But more importantly we expect a more robust trading system will make it much more feasible to sell off a ton of gems, earn that wealth, and then buy back into gems later when you want - and on the buyer side of that, if you have some gems and just need one more to upgrade, it will be quick and easy to go get one for a reasonable price.
The problem is that if you consider Rank5 & Rank6, the time frames become ridiculous.
That's purely relative. I'm sure many people will consider > 1 week to be a ridiculous amount of time spent to purely farm gems.
Also, we aren't even sure yet of how fast we can gather gems. The only logical comparisons we can make is that to the drop rate of gems in D2, but things could easily have changed. Also, we're not even considering such random events that could be like the forge quest in D2 where some pretty sweet gems and runes dropped.
The problem is that if you consider Rank5 & Rank6, the time frames become ridiculous.
That's purely relative. I'm sure many people will consider > 1 week to be a ridiculous amount of time spent to purely farm gems.
Also, we aren't even sure yet of how fast we can gather gems. The only logical comparisons we can make is that to the drop rate of gems in D2, but things could easily have changed. Also, we're not even considering such random events that could be like the forge quest in D2 where some pretty sweet gems and runes dropped.
3.6 years + level&gear time = ONE toon to get 1*Rank14 gem.
Time is relative, true, but ~4 years is a sizable amount of time for humans.
And 4 years is larger than the lifespan of most games.
And ~11 years is absurd for both.
Ohh and it is 9 YEARS at Rank6 to get all 10 of your gems to Rank14.
Rank5 & Rank6 simply are not viable choices.
You could do that quest 1 time, and as I said quests that yield gems can be factored into the gem acquire rate.
A quest you could do 1 time is basically irrelevant though.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I think that everyone in this thread is probably correct and it's good that people are getting along with this conversation, I've seen several that didn't work as well.
We can all agree, I think, that level 14 gems will be rare and difficult to get. I think we can all also agree that it's probably not going to take 5000 hours of solid play to get a level 14 gem, as that would make gems ridiculously expensive. Admittedly you would be farming other items as well during those 5000 hours, but at the U.S. minimum wage, that would be over $35,000.00 a gem, no one is going to pay half a million dollars to get gems for their characters. Or if someone is willing to do that, I want to get hired by that person as they clearly have lots of extra money sitting around not being used for anything useful.
I personally can't see it taking more than 500-1000 hours of farming to get a level 14 gem, that's still magnitudes longer than most games even last for players and I would suspect it's even shorter than that. The other thing, stated by several people is the difference between level 13 and level 14 gems is pretty small, a few percent. If you had level 10 gems of the right type in every slot you'll be almost as powerful as the person with level 14 gems, just not quite.
I think gems will be like everything else, with level 5-6 runes, decent level 60 gear and level 10 gems you'll be able to do inferno pretty well if you're good. And, more importantly, it gives you somewhere to continue trying to build on.
3.6 years + level&gear time = ONE toon to get 1*Rank14 gem.
Time is relative, true, but ~4 years is a sizable amount of time for humans.
And 4 years is larger than the lifespan of most games.
And ~11 years is absurd for both.
Ohh and it is 9 YEARS at Rank6 to get all 10 of your gems to Rank14.
Rank5 & Rank6 simply are not viable choices.
You could do that quest 1 time, and as I said quests that yield gems can be factored into the gem acquire rate.
A quest you could do 1 time is basically irrelevant though.
Yes but like I said, you could be way off in terms of speed of looting these gems. If you were intent on getting some gem to the highest level, you could probably do it in a couple of months at that rate of farming. Every item you acquire can be sold or traded to get more of those gems.
It just reminds me of how my girlfriend asks me to download a movie, and then asks how long it'll take before I've even started downloading it. I tell her it really depends on the speed of the download, but she insists on getting an approximate answer to the nearest hour...
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The way the system works, you are better off waiting to the very last minute to get a Rank14 gem, as each rank only adds 10 stats, or +1% bonus.
9 Rank12 gems >> 3 Rank13 gems >> 1 Rank14 gem.
720 stats >> 270 stats >> 100 stats
The only time you would ever think to upgrade to a rank 14 is if you had every gear socketed with Rank13 gems, and 2 more Rank13 gems in your bag.
So lets assume you have, 10 sockets in your gear.
To even consider upgrading you would need 10 Rank13 gems in gear, and another 2 more Rank13 gems in your bag.
To create 12*Rank13 gems from Rank7 gems requires,
12*3^6 = 8748 gems
Now we have to assume you play 4 hours a day.
Now, we have to come up with a figure for gems/hour.
4 gem drops / hour
1 gem purchases / hour (Equates to 4 bought per day and 1750 gems in total)
Total: 5 gem/hour
The equation to acquire your 1st Rank14 gem is simple,
Time = 3^(13-r)*(s+2)/a/t
Where,
r = Base gem Rank = 7
s = Number of sockets = 10 sockets
a = Gem acquire rate = 5 gems/hour
t = Average hours played per day = 4 hours/day
For our example,
Time for 1st Rank14 = 3^(13-7)*(10+2)/5/4 = 437.4 days =1.198 years
In other words, it will take 437.4 days at an average of 4 hours played per day to acquire 9*Rank13 gems and your first Rank14 gem.
The equation to acquire all Rank14 gems,
Time2 = 3^(14-r)*(s)/a/t
For our example,
Time2 = 3^(14-7)*10/5/4 = 1094 days = 2.996 years
It will take 2.996 years to acquire 10*Rank14 gems.
Note1: This # assumes that you either do not care about color, and/or you trade unwanted colors. It would take drastically longer, if you only wanted to socket gems of a certain color.
Note2: It will take at minimum an additional 4 hours to combine all those gems.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Well it is obviously not impossible, I just did it.
On the other hand, you could say its improbable that we could guess the proper drop rate.
However, I would argue against that as well. The upper and lower limits of gem acquire rate are very close numerically speaking. In other words, gem acquire rate has to be above 0, but below the rate at which you can kill and loot mobs. However, given our knowledge of D2, and the information we have gotten from the creators of D3 we can narrow that number ever further.
Obviously every mob wont drop a gem, likewise, being permanent, it is safe to assume the drop rate wont be ridiculous either. Calculating all probable drop rates is easy, might take 5 minutes in excel. Picking the correct one from the list is the hard part.
You may think, 5 per hour is low. Ok, but it is variable in an equation, and can easily be changed. What do you think is a better gem acquire rate?
Note, this is not the time frame to get just one Rank14 gem, it is a timeframe to get 9 Rank13 gems and 1 Rank14 gem.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
We also do not know if higher grades of gems will drop in infernal or what the drop rate is.
I do think it will take quite some time to get to the highest tier.
I do think it will be better to use the lower level gems until you have quite a few spares and are able to upgrade a few at a time.
Other factors like quests or gem shrines(Not likely) are essentially nothing more than an increase in gem acquire rate.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
12 Rank10 gems from Rank7 requires
12*3^(10-7) = 12*3^3 = 324 gems
You had the correct formula further down, so this must just be a typo/brain lapse
edit: I assume the typo was in the Rank10, that should be Rank13.
Also, why are you assuming we'll be gathering rank7 the whole time? From what I've heard, the highest common drops (not including quest rewards and such) will be rank5.
ty
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
I can see the drop rate as being higher than 4 gems per hour but in Infernal I can see that you still get level 6 and or level 5 ones dropping. I hope you do not see any lower than that. I see the drop rate for the lower gems to be higher. The question is if it worthwhile to pick up any grade gems and upgrade them knowing that it takes a much larger amounts to get to the highest tier. I will also add quite some time in upgrade process as well.
I do not know if we can buy or gamble for gems if we can than that can make a significant change to the amount of time needed to get highest tier. But I do see it as an option but the quality would be quite low if you can.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yah,I was thinking the same thing. It likely wont be worth your time to fool with gems below Rank5.
And if Rank5,6,7 all drop in inferno, which they probably will, then that can drastically lower the gem acquire rate.
That is a distinct possibility.
A group of farmers, or wealthy people will likely be able to acquire an absurd amount of gems quickly, but this math doesnt have anything to do with those people.
"This time frame is intended for people who desire to get the most of their toons, and not simply rushing to acquire a Rank14 gem ASAP."
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
The problem is that if you consider Rank5 & Rank6, the time frames become ridiculous.
If best gem drop is Rank5, r=5
3^(13-5)*(10+2)/5/4 = 3937 days = 10.79 years
If best gem drop is Rank6, r=6
3^(13-6)*(10+2)/5/4 = 1312 days = 3.595 years
You have to remember a couple things,
#1 This time frame only starts AFTER you reach an appropriate level/gear.
#2 Most people make multiple characters, and this time frame is for EACH toon. If we started at Rank6, it would take about 17.5 years, not including the time to level/gear your toons, to get a 9*Rank13 gems & 1*Rank14 gem.
Blue post,
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=27805270362&sid=3000#6
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Also, we aren't even sure yet of how fast we can gather gems. The only logical comparisons we can make is that to the drop rate of gems in D2, but things could easily have changed. Also, we're not even considering such random events that could be like the forge quest in D2 where some pretty sweet gems and runes dropped.
3.6 years + level&gear time = ONE toon to get 1*Rank14 gem.
Time is relative, true, but ~4 years is a sizable amount of time for humans.
And 4 years is larger than the lifespan of most games.
And ~11 years is absurd for both.
Ohh and it is 9 YEARS at Rank6 to get all 10 of your gems to Rank14.
Rank5 & Rank6 simply are not viable choices.
You could do that quest 1 time, and as I said quests that yield gems can be factored into the gem acquire rate.
A quest you could do 1 time is basically irrelevant though.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
We can all agree, I think, that level 14 gems will be rare and difficult to get. I think we can all also agree that it's probably not going to take 5000 hours of solid play to get a level 14 gem, as that would make gems ridiculously expensive. Admittedly you would be farming other items as well during those 5000 hours, but at the U.S. minimum wage, that would be over $35,000.00 a gem, no one is going to pay half a million dollars to get gems for their characters. Or if someone is willing to do that, I want to get hired by that person as they clearly have lots of extra money sitting around not being used for anything useful.
I personally can't see it taking more than 500-1000 hours of farming to get a level 14 gem, that's still magnitudes longer than most games even last for players and I would suspect it's even shorter than that. The other thing, stated by several people is the difference between level 13 and level 14 gems is pretty small, a few percent. If you had level 10 gems of the right type in every slot you'll be almost as powerful as the person with level 14 gems, just not quite.
I think gems will be like everything else, with level 5-6 runes, decent level 60 gear and level 10 gems you'll be able to do inferno pretty well if you're good. And, more importantly, it gives you somewhere to continue trying to build on.
Three years seems reasonable to me, maybe a little high.
But by that time, there could be several high ranking gems on AH.
PS: I found the best Avatar on the internet.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
It just reminds me of how my girlfriend asks me to download a movie, and then asks how long it'll take before I've even started downloading it. I tell her it really depends on the speed of the download, but she insists on getting an approximate answer to the nearest hour...