Though the seperation is no longer distinctive. Armors are still being identify by gamers knowledge for class individuality. Even until now, I heard phrases like "a barb wearing a witch doctor chest piece"
The idea is still there in gamers' point of view, and will current class armor share-value meaning something further down the line, or will gears be completely obsolete for core builds creation, those are good questions I would like to know the answer myself.
So I slept on it for some perspective. I realized why I'm so bothered by the idea that armor drops literally shapeshift depending on class. Reason: It reeks of the WoW tiered armor system, which of course leads to seriously cookie-cutter, boring, vanilla itemization. The reason it's so vanilla is the obvious lack of variance, so your goal is simply to keep up with people. You know exactly what you're going to get, see other people in it, and as such, the pursuit of gear carries with it a sense of entitlement. When you FINALLY get your (underlined) set piece you've been grinding for (and obviously deserve), you feel relieved of a petty annoyance, rather than super-excitement at a never-before-seen piece.
However, I'm pretty confident that the Diablo devs wouldn't dream of doing this. So what gives? From what I can gather, what they're indirectly telling us is that build itemization is everything. Now we can get into some semantic stickiness here, so let me clarify my terms. By build itemization I mean the additional attributes (in the form of affixes and suffixes) which contribute to a character's build, either directly through skill boosts, or indirectly through bonuses to traits and attributes, weapon effects like bleed, prevent monster heal, monsters flee, etc.
This makes sense when you consider all the zillions of permutations and combinations of potential builds.. Since so many builds will be theoretically viable, we need tons of gear with the same "base" function (for armor, read: damage mit), so that we can even have a prayer to properly itemize all the potential builds. If stats are effectively eliminated in "qualifying" for gear, the only thing left is how the gear affects your build.
In general, it's a pretty ballsy play for Blizz. What they're trying to do is finally make an RPG that doesn't require players to min-max. I love the ambition, cause I generally dislike min-maxing.
So, perhaps by seemingly vanillifying the base properties of gear, Blizz will succeed in avoiding vanilla min-max character builds. I, for one, hope they do.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
The looks are tailored for each character. Stats are going to be totally random and different builds will want different stats. Only the basic stats are slightly streamlined. There's still stats like "increased casting speed" and "+damage".
Semantic issue: in my world "increased casting speed" and "+ damage" are not stats, they are attributes.
Your basic stats = My stats
Your stats = My attributes
But I agree with you fully. Attributes will be highly variable, which is good. Basic stats are being "streamlined," (or, bypassed as I would say), as they are no longer restrictive. This will allow us to focus on the exciting part of itemization, which is strengthening our builds sans the tedium.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
The basic stats that are being streamlined/bypassed, becoming less important by some magical way from Blizzard, are you guys referring to the stat auto distribution?
I'm not sure how much damage it does to our ability to create builds, and I will not jump to any conclusion for that matter, but some very engaging debates about how simplifying attributes eliminates builds potential had taken place on this very site. I, for one, was quite disturbed by it, yet the rune system was enough of an idea for me, that I won't bother to worry about how much possibility had been cut down by auto distribution.
This notion however, stir the core of the exact unknown to me, I never learned exactly what kind of builds it will fail. But I do know its purpose is for gamer's convenient to focus on making the exact build they want to be going for. That's good, and I'm content for it.
Good point. Now I've got it. So what we're saying is, gear-restrictive stats (str, dex, etc), as traditional rpg'ers know them, are dead. Stats have always had the benefit of modifying attributes, so the devs just cut to the chase and said "Let's just get rid of the restrictions and keep the attributes, that's the fun part of stats anyway!" They were all like, "YEAH!" Then debbie downer was like "Hey, that means anyone can wear the heaviest plate, lame!" They were all like... ummmm. Ok, we'll just make the restriction purely clvl based, adapt the artwork of the armor to the class it drops for, and bask in the fun factor.
Yep, probably I like it. It's very different, and rife with paradox, but hey. As long as there's buckets of blood and loot, I'm good.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
I'm starting to miss the str/dex req. Each armor looks diferent in each class will just destroy the armor's individuality. In D2 you kno a crown of ages, a shaftstop, a magehand a marrow walker, when you see one.
I dunno i think i will miss the armor looks. I think D2 system was fine =/ But i guess i'm in the minority.
Theres still going to be the same amount, or more, of armors than in D2. There will still be all of the random drops. Once again, just because everyone can wear all the armor doesn't mean they will. Everyone will still have the stats they favored. This system doesn't really have implications beyond allowing builds like a Battle Mage potentially get more survivability, instead of forcing them to stack one kind of charm or something of the sort. Not to mention there will be plenty of class specific items, and each class has a "signature" item. Its not going to kill variations in armor or anything close to that. Obviously theres a degree of uncertainty to this considering none of us have played the game, but from what we know its definitely not a system thats going to kill uniqueness or anything.
And as far as the D2 system being fine, in my experience it only led to you having to rebuild (or in this case respec) in order to wear the armor you want. There are plenty of systems in place (such as making Willpower better for spellcasters) that promote certain classes wanting certain armors. Again, just because every class can wear every armor doesn't mean they will. All it does is make every class have a completely unique look, and I really don't see how you can say thats a bad thing.
OK, for the last time: YES THEY WILL!! How is that so hard to understand? since all mods will appear equally in all armour pieces, then it's just as likely for the 'heaviest' armour to spawn melee mods as it is for it to spawn caster mods. So, since there's no str/dex reqs, everyone will end up using the 'heaviest' armour, even if it doesn't look 'heavy' on casters. Jeez!
You're saying the same thing as I am. I'm just not reffering to something like "Breastplate of the Bear" and "Breastplate of the Hawk" as the same thing. If it has a different mod on it it mine as well be a different piece of armor completely, as its going to have different stat and armor values. And, for the last time, those mods will also effect how "heavy" an armor is, as everything, including the actual armor/damage mitigation amount, will change based on the mod.
Again, (hopefully) for the last time: they already had that in D2!!!
And? The person I was responding to was saying that that wasn't a good thing. I'm saying it is. Whether or not it was in D2 has nothing to do with that.
Theres still going to be the same amount, or more, of armors than in D2. There will still be all of the random drops. Once again, just because everyone can wear all the armor doesn't mean they will. Everyone will still have the stats they favored. This system doesn't really have implications beyond allowing builds like a Battle Mage potentially get more survivability, instead of forcing them to stack one kind of charm or something of the sort. Not to mention there will be plenty of class specific items, and each class has a "signature" item. Its not going to kill variations in armor or anything close to that. Obviously theres a degree of uncertainty to this considering none of us have played the game, but from what we know its definitely not a system thats going to kill uniqueness or anything.
And as far as the D2 system being fine, in my experience it only led to you having to rebuild (or in this case respec) in order to wear the armor you want. There are plenty of systems in place (such as making Willpower better for spellcasters) that promote certain classes wanting certain armors. Again, just because every class can wear every armor doesn't mean they will. All it does is make every class have a completely unique look, and I really don't see how you can say thats a bad thing.
Rofl I will try to explain again because you missed the point completly.
Each unique item in D2 have a unique look in your stash. For exemple, the Goldskin fullplate. It has a unique sprite. In D3 it will not happen because every armor piece will have 5 sprites, one for each class.
I agree each class needs a unique look, but i think every item also needs a identity beyond it's stats. Every item having a sprite for each class is not a good move imo. Its alot of extra work just to make the 2D item pic looks the same as the 3D sprite, wich is not even important imo.
I actually want to have the space to consider other ingredients for my build.
The more I think about it the more sense it makes that gear individuality should be the little history name it attained with, the gear could work better if not restrain by its specific prescription to classes. But will it loses somesort of original elements? If it does, I think it wouldn't be in any affect of crushing the major element we ourself should be focusing on, the loot, runes, builds etc. Do we honestly think it will destroy the thirst for something out there, with spontaneous description writeup, matching the specific build we're going for?
Have they stated necessarily that uniques will look different on each class. I'm not saying they won't but... Maybe for uniques, the change is minimal compared to he drastic changes of regular armor.
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What don is saying is what if you are trying to trade the armor. You can't say "I have a 300 def cheat piece for trade" because it wouldn't be 300 for everyone. Unless they showed the stat change for each class on the tool tip.
I really like the idea of separate mods for eachclass but it would get way too confusing. I think the beat option if they want to make each class different is by combining armor value and defense stat. Multiply armor by defense = damage reduction. That way the barb will always get the biggest benefit since his def stat will most likely always be the highest.
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I think the beat option if they want to make each class different is by combining armor value and defense stat. Multiply armor by defense = damage reduction.
... I think the beat option if they want to make each class different is by combining armor value and defense stat. Multiply armor by defense = damage reduction. That way the barb will always get the biggest benefit since his def stat will most likely always be the highest.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but would't this still suffer from the fact that every class and build would still rather have the heaviest armor? What you propose still means that higher armor is better for anyone than not. What would make, for example, a Wizard want to have a lighter armor if they could just as easily have a heavier armor with the same stats/attributes?
Or will level requirements for the same type of armor be different for each class? If that were the case, then the heaviest armor might simply not be an option... but I guess you would still rather wear the heaviest armor you have access to.
The point is that if you combine armor with defense, it magnifies the effect of your armor. With the Barb naturally having the highest def, he will also have the highest armor. The Wizard will have the least.
This will do two things. First, it will encourage Barbs to go for higher armor and Wizards less because of the overall effect they gain from it. Secondly, it will give them varying amounts of armor even if they are all wearing the highest one.
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Cross-class armour wearing could possibily loses each classes' individuality.
Yet it could spawn new classes between the original, just hypothesis.
The idea is still there in gamers' point of view, and will current class armor share-value meaning something further down the line, or will gears be completely obsolete for core builds creation, those are good questions I would like to know the answer myself.
However, I'm pretty confident that the Diablo devs wouldn't dream of doing this. So what gives? From what I can gather, what they're indirectly telling us is that build itemization is everything. Now we can get into some semantic stickiness here, so let me clarify my terms. By build itemization I mean the additional attributes (in the form of affixes and suffixes) which contribute to a character's build, either directly through skill boosts, or indirectly through bonuses to traits and attributes, weapon effects like bleed, prevent monster heal, monsters flee, etc.
This makes sense when you consider all the zillions of permutations and combinations of potential builds.. Since so many builds will be theoretically viable, we need tons of gear with the same "base" function (for armor, read: damage mit), so that we can even have a prayer to properly itemize all the potential builds. If stats are effectively eliminated in "qualifying" for gear, the only thing left is how the gear affects your build.
In general, it's a pretty ballsy play for Blizz. What they're trying to do is finally make an RPG that doesn't require players to min-max. I love the ambition, cause I generally dislike min-maxing.
So, perhaps by seemingly vanillifying the base properties of gear, Blizz will succeed in avoiding vanilla min-max character builds. I, for one, hope they do.
-Thomas Jefferson
Semantic issue: in my world "increased casting speed" and "+ damage" are not stats, they are attributes.
Your basic stats = My stats
Your stats = My attributes
But I agree with you fully. Attributes will be highly variable, which is good. Basic stats are being "streamlined," (or, bypassed as I would say), as they are no longer restrictive. This will allow us to focus on the exciting part of itemization, which is strengthening our builds sans the tedium.
-Thomas Jefferson
I'm not sure how much damage it does to our ability to create builds, and I will not jump to any conclusion for that matter, but some very engaging debates about how simplifying attributes eliminates builds potential had taken place on this very site. I, for one, was quite disturbed by it, yet the rune system was enough of an idea for me, that I won't bother to worry about how much possibility had been cut down by auto distribution.
This notion however, stir the core of the exact unknown to me, I never learned exactly what kind of builds it will fail. But I do know its purpose is for gamer's convenient to focus on making the exact build they want to be going for. That's good, and I'm content for it.
Yep, probably I like it. It's very different, and rife with paradox, but hey. As long as there's buckets of blood and loot, I'm good.
-Thomas Jefferson
I dunno i think i will miss the armor looks. I think D2 system was fine =/ But i guess i'm in the minority.
And as far as the D2 system being fine, in my experience it only led to you having to rebuild (or in this case respec) in order to wear the armor you want. There are plenty of systems in place (such as making Willpower better for spellcasters) that promote certain classes wanting certain armors. Again, just because every class can wear every armor doesn't mean they will. All it does is make every class have a completely unique look, and I really don't see how you can say thats a bad thing.
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And? The person I was responding to was saying that that wasn't a good thing. I'm saying it is. Whether or not it was in D2 has nothing to do with that.
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Rofl I will try to explain again because you missed the point completly.
Each unique item in D2 have a unique look in your stash. For exemple, the Goldskin fullplate. It has a unique sprite. In D3 it will not happen because every armor piece will have 5 sprites, one for each class.
I agree each class needs a unique look, but i think every item also needs a identity beyond it's stats. Every item having a sprite for each class is not a good move imo. Its alot of extra work just to make the 2D item pic looks the same as the 3D sprite, wich is not even important imo.
The more I think about it the more sense it makes that gear individuality should be the little history name it attained with, the gear could work better if not restrain by its specific prescription to classes. But will it loses somesort of original elements? If it does, I think it wouldn't be in any affect of crushing the major element we ourself should be focusing on, the loot, runes, builds etc. Do we honestly think it will destroy the thirst for something out there, with spontaneous description writeup, matching the specific build we're going for?
Find any Diablo news? Contact me or anyone else on the News team
I really like the idea of separate mods for eachclass but it would get way too confusing. I think the beat option if they want to make each class different is by combining armor value and defense stat. Multiply armor by defense = damage reduction. That way the barb will always get the biggest benefit since his def stat will most likely always be the highest.
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A++ for brilliant.
A++ for funny.
-Thomas Jefferson
Fine. Revised Grade: B- for literalism sans panache. You're on watch.
-Thomas Jefferson
W/e.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but would't this still suffer from the fact that every class and build would still rather have the heaviest armor? What you propose still means that higher armor is better for anyone than not. What would make, for example, a Wizard want to have a lighter armor if they could just as easily have a heavier armor with the same stats/attributes?
Or will level requirements for the same type of armor be different for each class? If that were the case, then the heaviest armor might simply not be an option... but I guess you would still rather wear the heaviest armor you have access to.
Am I as confused as I think I am? lol
This will do two things. First, it will encourage Barbs to go for higher armor and Wizards less because of the overall effect they gain from it. Secondly, it will give them varying amounts of armor even if they are all wearing the highest one.
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