DiabloFans

I've purchased an amulet - thanks all for the interest!

Quote from Warguyver

You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?

I've stated monetary as an example. How did you manage to miss it?

When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?

Again, my characters are still here. They could be sold for money, they could be played again by myself in the future. A friend could pick up and play my characters, etc. etc. Same cannot be said about dead hardcore characters.

Are you playing Diablo as a job? That is, without it you would lose your house, phone, car, what have you? Chances are no. So that's out. How many people do you feel play Diablo for the sole and primary intent of making real money? I'm willing to bet that number isn't quite as overwhelming as you think it is. In fact, I'm betting it's a pretty miniscule number. The fact that it may be part of the reason people are playing (you know, as a bonus to the actual game) does not make it the primary reason people play games.

As I said before, the "monetary" reason for gaming is an incredibly small fraction of any reasonable list of reasons to play video games (and in many cases borderline illegal if done incorrectly). Video games are for entertainment. Even if I say "primarily" to include the absolutely minute amount of monetary reasons one might play a game, my point remains the same.

That point is that asserting as fact that someone else is wasting their time based on your subjective idea on what's fun, derived from inaccuracies in assumption about what intended uses are for games is, in fact, the real waste of time.

Quote from Warguyver

Like I said, I didn't really want to get into the hardcore vs softcore debate. As far as I can tell, there's not one argument against "hardcore is a waste of time" because really, it is. Some people find it fun, some others don't. That's another issue. Games are purely for entertainment? Another completely subjective issue that has no real conclusion. If you'd like to debate hardcore, we can talk about it in private/another thread but let's just agree to disagree here.

It's really not a different issue. It's the entire premise for why this argument is old and stale.

You keep saying "waste of time," but have yet to quantify what value you're getting out of playing without using completely obscure words like "win," "fun," or anything else that cannot reasonably be quantified. Tangible or otherwise, what practical use are you getting out of playing a video game that isn't entertainment?

When you uninstall D3 and move on to the next big thing, your time spent here has been officially wasted just as much as my dead harcore characters then, yes? And if that's the case, as someone else correctly pointed out, what isn't a waste of time, since we're all dead in the long run?

Quote from Warguyver

Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.

And this is where you are wrong. People play games for different reasons. A lot of people don't play just to "have fun" and screw around. Many people play to win, others play to make money, some play because they like having their efforts rewarded in the end. This is where hardcore falls flat.

Note: I do not deny that some people enjoy wasting their own times, and from that enjoyment they derive a sense of satisfaction with hardcore diablo. I, however, am not one of these people.

Huh, I must not have received my trophy in the mail from winning Diablo 3 when I beat Inferno. The Gladiator mount and title I won in Season 3 of WoW PvP must have been for nothing, as I've since uninstalled the game and, therefore, no longer have those items.

No, see, you've missed the very point I made, and you confirmed: games are for one purpose, and one purpose only - entertainment. To some, that comes from "winning" (whatever that means in Diablo 3). Having your efforts "rewarded"? That's in incredibly generalized idea, but still comes back to the very basic foundation on which you're playing in the first place: to be entertained. What tangible, practical purpose does receiving a legendary item serve? Does it look good on your resume? Can you get a drivers license with it? Can you eat it? I mean, making money, which is entirely unique to this game outside of illegal and illicit activities, is the _only_ thing you can possibly argue here, and even then, it's still not a valid point since most people don't participate in it.

Games are for entertainment, which means each and every available "mode" also serves that purpose. Just because you find one more entertaining than another, doesn't make activity B a "waste of time," since, at it's core, all of gaming is a waste of time.

And this entire conversation is why people throw around the word "troll." Because rather than simply stating an opinion like "I dislike hardcore," you assert something as fact by saying "it's a waste of time."

Quote from Warguyver

Quote from Slayerviper

Quote from Warguyver

On the same note, what's with the troll accusers on these forums nowadays? I swear they're more rampant than the actual trolls. "That guy has an opinion! He must be trolling!"

Additionally, I've never been a fan of hardcore. To put it simply, it's a waste of time. You -will- lose your character at some point as long as you keep playing it; once you lose it, all time you've spent on that character has been completely wasted. To worsen the case, most deaths are not triggered by poor judgement calls/bad builds but rather... by lag.

Lag isn't as bad unless your like the above poster who lives in South America, I sympathize. The rubber banding has been fixed or at least I haven't noticed any issues since the fix. Calling hardcore a waste of time is trivial; I can make the same statement about playing video games, in the end you just wasting your time to something that won't amount to anything significant in life. I can then state life really has no meaning either so what you do with your time doesn't matter.

I'd rather not get too deeply into this, but no video games are not a waste of time. The time and effort you put into games in general amounts to something in the end. Whether that be a character in Diablo/an MMO, skill in games like SC/Dota/FPS, etc. there is a certain reward at the end of the grind. This reward can often be represented in monetary value, as characters are often sold for over thousands of real dollars, or players like Boxer making millions from playing starcraft, etc. etc. Hardcore, however, rewards you with literally nothing at the end of the grind. You will lose your character as long as you keep playing it and once you do, all the time and effort you have spent will amount to nothing.

I'm going to ignore the RMAH benefits for this discussion, as it's a fairly unique thing and something many don't actively participate in.

Concerning "value" of playing video games: softcore and hardcore Diablo are different means to the exact same end - to be entertained. This comes in a wide variety of formats, from basic thrill of the hunt, to socializing, to adrenaline-pumping fights to the death, to ecstacy from finding that incredibly rare item, etc. That is the end-all, be-all for gaming. Nothing more, nothing less. Your argument that hardcore does not meet these criteria because you lose your pixels at the end is not only flawed, it's flat out wrong.

Your argument that D2 farming was more attractive due to the quick-flip nature of games has merit. There are a lot of human pscyhological factors at play that lead to the various feelings of disdain or enjoyment of the newest iteration of Diablo. With that said, this isn't supposed to be a shinier Diablo 2. It's an entirely new game, and despite some feeling they've been alienated by not having an exactly clone with better graphics produced, that fact will remain the same; with that comes fresh ideas - some of which will succeed, others will fail.

With all that said, the reason people are calling shit like this trolling is because it's the 9372849287th time it's been posted, and rather than consolidating it to a thread where this exact same discussion is already taking place, we now have a rehashed version to wade through and make the exact same comments we've already made 92759752 times before.

Quote from DerfOnTurf

The story is completely correct about the AH being a problem, but it is far from the only problem. I played for the first time in over a month and couldn't even stay interested for 30 minutes. I don't think I will ever log in or visit this site again. Time to move on.

Quote from Sandgnome

In D2 you may not find upgrades for your self if you bought a lot of gear via 3rd party sites or similar - which you are implying is the same as the AH - but you would most definately find upgrades for your friends or your not so strong geared characters or different builds.

You just invalidated your entire argument with this single statement. This is exactly what's happening right now, too.

You know why D2 seems "easier"? Because it was. It was brainless to kill even the hardest enemies, and you knew and item was good because it was a rusty brown color when it dropped. Now that everything is yellow and you have to actually think about what's good? All of a sudden things are too hard.

Bump, still looking for items up to and including the 30 million gold range.

Quote from Mob_Dylan

Quote from Zakaz

Voted yes as the PvP option sounds amusing - not entirely sold on the PvE portion of it, as I don't know that it's truly necessary (or any more than a masked grind as it is). Decent item nonetheless.

That was part of my intention; to make "grinding", a little less "grind-y". =)

I think for PvE a type of risk/reward "infnite dungeon" style would be the optimal solution.

-Pay to enter (probably a limit on the total times you can do it per day or week)
-"Rounds" of enemies/bosses
-Every 5 rounds you have a choice to take your currently accumulated prize pot or continue.
-Every successful 5 rounds your prize pot increases in value
-Every 25 rounds you earn a guaranteed reward of some kind
-If you die, you lose everything in your accumulating prize pot (excluding the guaranteed rewards)
-At 100 rounds complete, the dungeon ends and you win a "jackpot" prize (your accumulated prize pot + bonus rewards)

Lots of other details and things that can be done with this type of idea, but it's something I see pop up in requests very often. It's definitely something I would be interested in.

Voted yes as the PvP option sounds amusing - not entirely sold on the PvE portion of it, as I don't know that it's truly necessary (or any more than a masked grind as it is). Decent item nonetheless.

Quote from agadabagada

Also, people should call it the sonic spec or Taz spec, not wwspec. just saying

I nominate Usain Bolt spec.

The answer is yes.

The iLvls on crafted weapons will not change (perhaps with the exception of Legendary items moving up to iLvl 62), but the possible affixes will broaden into the iLvl 63 range to allow for a chance of rolling a higher DPS weapon. This is a change to the generator, which includes drops and crafted items alike.

Quote from shaggy

Quote from Zakaz

I don't recall Arcane being specifically mentioned in the overview blog, but I don't doubt it's probably up for review along with Molten and Fire Chains; they've made it clear not everything is being detailed in the blogs, so my hope is this just didn't make the cut, but will appear in the patch notes.

My point with Arcane + Vortex was not that Arcane is too hard. Arcane generally is a laughable affix. The issue for me is that getting Jailed in the beam... ok who cares? Laugh at it. Getting Vortexed on the epicenter? No laughing, you're dead.

I don't think it's very valid to say that the only foolproof way around this is to use geography to hard counter Vortex. My problem is a very niche problem - it typically doesn't happen with melee mobs for example because as you move they move away from the Sentries too. It tends to happen mostly with ranged mobs who like to plop Sentries down right underneath themselves, then stand there.

Then again, you may be right in calling me out insofar that it may be more of an issue with the AI of ranged mobs in general - I find that even after the AI change ranged mobs are still a royal pain in the ass. So maybe that's more of the cause of my frustration with Arcane + Vortex because I know I certainly have not experienced it with any melee mob.

Oh I know the issue - it happens to me periodically as well. Ranged mobs are a finnicky bunch, and some types (those fucking quill shooting bastards) are a much bigger pain in the ass than others with their flee and kite you to death AI.

I believe we're both agreeing on the same idea that Arcane needs to be tuned down slightly. However, I think it should still be a bit of an "oh shit!" moment if you get yanked on top of one, but there should definitely be a chance that you can get out and recover (say losing half your life rather than 75-100% in a single second).

Need more threads asking this same question, even if it has been answered 10 times by as many sources in the past few weeks.

Also, the word is "retroactive."

Quote from zach3427

"We were faced with a choice: we could either reduce the proc coefficient, or we could make it so these skills could not trigger the procs on Legendary items at all. We opted for the former because it seemed like getting a Legendary with a proc effect but never seeing it trigger would be very disappointing. Regardless, having well-balanced proc coefficients on all skills is not only better for Legendaries, but also for the long-term of the game."

You keep quoting things you clearly don't understand.