I used 60s fight duration, 100ms latency/reaction time, against 1 mob. Your char sheet shows 3.03 APS, 49.5 crit, 20 APoC, and 172.9k dps. The FN uptime was estimated at around 64% for both runs.
With EA, crystal shell, Time Warp, and bone chill it calculates your effective dps multiplier to be 2.97, so your effective dps is 514k. Your WW makes up about 65% of that, with 34% from CR and 1% from white attacks. (WW = 1.93x char sheet dps)
If you used full SNS your multiplier would be 5.18 for an effective dps of 896k. The breakdown is 19.6% CR, 0.7% White attacks, 37.3% WW, 28.4% SA, 7.9% Storm Armor, and 6.1% DS. (WW = 1.47x char sheet dps).
Did a few runs on MP5 today on Azmodan (to avoid the EHP problems on MP10, although the fight duration has gone down quite a bit). Did 5 of each to average out the time and to take out some random RNG (still a small sample)
Azmodan HP on MP5 = 25'738'048
No followers
Base of about 200ms latency
EA + CS + Time Warp + Cold Blooded + Bone chill = 46 seconds = 559'523 DPS (which is only 8% off your simulated number)
Full SNS = 25 seconds = 1'029'522 DPS (14% off your simulated number)
That really is a huge difference in DPS between the 2 setups, however, in terms of EHP my life did not move at all with the EA build, while with SNS i had to pot to stay alive (i have 0 LOH 0 LS), the way i'm looking at it - with my EHP level it's going to be very fast to farm elites on MP6 and may be 7 with full SNS, while for MP10 ubers or group farming it has got to be EA build.
If you wish to have some point of reference:
Current EHP (vs elite) = 463'024 with EA (prismatic) up and that is sufficient for MP10 elites (easily survive Magda's hits)
Current EHP (vs elite) = 334'449 without EA is sufficient to survive MP6 elites easily
Using the MP10 value we can solve for all the other values in the table for each MP:
MP1
109.60%
202'916
MP2
120.12%
222'393
MP3
131.65%
243'740
MP4
144.29%
267'142
MP5
158.14%
292'785
MP6
173.32%
320'889
MP7
189.96%
351'697
MP8
208.20%
385'467
MP9
228.18%
422'459
MP10
250.09%
463'024
This table also fits in the MP6 values quite nicely that i've reported just above. It is a fair bit higher than your table for EHP, to me, personally - this would be a 'comfortable' survival without being one shot by anything inclusive of Magda's attacks even while sitting on 0 LOH and 0 LS.
Using this table what i can do is: use EA with pinpoint which would give me 397,153 EHP vs elite and that will put me on 'comfortable' place to farm MP8
Alternatively adding 130k EHP would allow me to go full SNS build on MP10
Or i can add 35k EHP and go MP10 with pinpoint barrier instead
Duders! The world is going to end in a few hours. This is not a debate, it's a proven scientific fact, even the Mayans knew it - you gotta be dumber than them to not realize it.
Fortunately, i have found a way to surpass the complete annihilation, not only that but i am able to preserve all the gold and items on my account while the rest of you are going to be wiped out clean.
So i will offer you a one time special offer - if you pass me all your gold and items, bank account details, your car keys and your wife - i will return it all to you intact after the rapture. 100% guarantee and no worries! Pass me your stuff and enjoy the end of the world like a real bachelor!
Another thing I noticed. Witching hour has three random affixes, so perfect rolls would be 100int/100vit roll a second 100 vit roll and 80 all resist on top of the 100 int it already has would give 200 int, 200 vit total. Basically, you could have an additional 100 vit on top of the one in your profile. Here is one that shows its possible.
Loroese, i can't use the m file, could you perhaps do a sim with my gear of the resulting DPS please? I'll do a timed MP10 Azmodan. I'm quite curious on the actual DPS output of the CMWW.
The ranges that you do suggest 1.2-2.4 char sheet DPS is rather quite a drastic variation, perhaps there's a way to narrow it down to be more specific?
Would this be possible to do showing sword+trium+triple zuni? How BIS would affect DPS/EHP using Marrow instead of Tal's Chest? Obviously EHP would go up and DPS down, but how much for each?
I'm not planning to do such variations at the moment - there are simply far too many possibilities, like dropping Inna's leggings for Blackthorne's etc which would provide a huge amount of EHP while dropping DPS. The intention was to just provide the basic setup comparison that many people wonder about - specifically Zuni vs Zuni x2 vs Ice Climbers vs Tal's amulet, vs weapon choice.
Such 'individual' preference comparisons could easily be done in the d3up.com. Simply check out the profiles i have linked, click on an item and click 'copy to my items' (provided you have an account, which is free) Then you can simply use the items i generated to create any sort of a setup that you'd like to test
Wizard Explosive blast - Chain reaction wpn damage is wrong it shows 315%, while it should be 3 explosions x 97% = 291%
Also the list of builds in my profile does not update the DPS / EHP after changing any items in a single build, nor does it change after updating paragon levels, i have to change the passive skills in order to have that list updated. The individual profiles do update, but not the build list stats
For example, my WW DPS is shown as 23'211 on D3up.com, but that is for a single tornado,
A tornado exists for 6 seconds,
with 3.03 APS we cast 3 tornadoes a second (lets take AP out of equation for a second)
so after 6 seconds we should have 6*3=18 tornadoes going at the same time on the mob
18*23'211=417'798 DPS from WW alone
Am i on the right track here?
Thanks Speaker, didn't notice those bugs, fixed it along with the ring/amulet damage ranges. Tal's amulet still losing out to perfect quintfecta by about 30k++. The lineup has changed again after those fixes and actually makes more sense now
Sorry, but again, the numbers on those weapons are wrong. The max dmg on your weapons is above what is actually possible in game. For example, the dagger's maximum dmg should be calculated as (71 + 265 + 363) *1.50 = 1048.5
The number you used for the base dmg is right, only when there is no +min-max dmg modifiers on the weapon. When there is a +min-max dmg affix it uses the weapon's minimum dmg+1 to calculate the max dmg. I know it doesn't make sense, but this is how blizzard does the calculation for max dmg on weapons.
Check this item out for example. The base minimum dmg on this weapon is 68 so we calculate the min and max dmg as follows:
min dmg = (68+261)*1.50 = 493.5
max dmg = (69+261+340)*1.50 = 1005
All your max dmg weapon ranges are off and should be adjusted. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the input, all DPS values are fixed, again a few lineup changes due to that
Nice, thanks for the input guys, i'll make a couple of updates to the post in a second, to use the perfectly rolled weapons and i'll do up 2 sections:
- daggers win via APS, so lower wpn DPS will be covered by APS of the wand
- swords higher DPS but lower APS
The two of them might come out very very close even in total sheet DPS though the dagger is 200 DPS lower.
I can tell you 1420 isn't the highest right now. Here is one with 1466.2 dps for example. But, there are several reasons why we haven't seen a wand with 1500 dps.
That's because the wand you linked is missing a socket roll, it rolled AIS instead, that's why the DPS of it is higher than 1420. I think DisposableHero is right on the rolls. But theoretically you are right as well - it's possible to get a higher raw DPS of the weapon at the expense of the socket or CD or even both and roll and additional single +min/max damage affix along with AIS.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
I've tried the AIS on the profile setup instead of the 200 INT it was approximately 17k DPS loss, i was curious about that too yesterday heh.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.
Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).
The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.
Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
Main hand sword
604.5 - 1493.25
1.4 aps
11% ias
200 int
100 crit dam + socket = 200 crit dam
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.
I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?
Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.
In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
Nice, hope you guys can work it out and get the tDPS going for wizards as well as the CM simulator built in
I was about to say that - Jaetch posted that exact same build and result a few weeks ago... lol, i should claim the invention of a bicycle while i'm at it.
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Did a few runs on MP5 today on Azmodan (to avoid the EHP problems on MP10, although the fight duration has gone down quite a bit). Did 5 of each to average out the time and to take out some random RNG (still a small sample)
Azmodan HP on MP5 = 25'738'048
No followers
Base of about 200ms latency
EA + CS + Time Warp + Cold Blooded + Bone chill = 46 seconds = 559'523 DPS (which is only 8% off your simulated number)
Full SNS = 25 seconds = 1'029'522 DPS (14% off your simulated number)
That really is a huge difference in DPS between the 2 setups, however, in terms of EHP my life did not move at all with the EA build, while with SNS i had to pot to stay alive (i have 0 LOH 0 LS), the way i'm looking at it - with my EHP level it's going to be very fast to farm elites on MP6 and may be 7 with full SNS, while for MP10 ubers or group farming it has got to be EA build.
If you wish to have some point of reference:
Current EHP (vs elite) = 463'024 with EA (prismatic) up and that is sufficient for MP10 elites (easily survive Magda's hits)
Current EHP (vs elite) = 334'449 without EA is sufficient to survive MP6 elites easily
Using the MP10 value we can solve for all the other values in the table for each MP:
This table also fits in the MP6 values quite nicely that i've reported just above. It is a fair bit higher than your table for EHP, to me, personally - this would be a 'comfortable' survival without being one shot by anything inclusive of Magda's attacks even while sitting on 0 LOH and 0 LS.
Using this table what i can do is: use EA with pinpoint which would give me 397,153 EHP vs elite and that will put me on 'comfortable' place to farm MP8
Alternatively adding 130k EHP would allow me to go full SNS build on MP10
Or i can add 35k EHP and go MP10 with pinpoint barrier instead
0
Fortunately, i have found a way to surpass the complete annihilation, not only that but i am able to preserve all the gold and items on my account while the rest of you are going to be wiped out clean.
So i will offer you a one time special offer - if you pass me all your gold and items, bank account details, your car keys and your wife - i will return it all to you intact after the rapture. 100% guarantee and no worries! Pass me your stuff and enjoy the end of the world like a real bachelor!
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Thanks, updated
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The ranges that you do suggest 1.2-2.4 char sheet DPS is rather quite a drastic variation, perhaps there's a way to narrow it down to be more specific?
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I'm not planning to do such variations at the moment - there are simply far too many possibilities, like dropping Inna's leggings for Blackthorne's etc which would provide a huge amount of EHP while dropping DPS. The intention was to just provide the basic setup comparison that many people wonder about - specifically Zuni vs Zuni x2 vs Ice Climbers vs Tal's amulet, vs weapon choice.
Such 'individual' preference comparisons could easily be done in the d3up.com. Simply check out the profiles i have linked, click on an item and click 'copy to my items' (provided you have an account, which is free) Then you can simply use the items i generated to create any sort of a setup that you'd like to test
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Wizard Explosive blast - Chain reaction wpn damage is wrong it shows 315%, while it should be 3 explosions x 97% = 291%
Also the list of builds in my profile does not update the DPS / EHP after changing any items in a single build, nor does it change after updating paragon levels, i have to change the passive skills in order to have that list updated. The individual profiles do update, but not the build list stats
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For example, my WW DPS is shown as 23'211 on D3up.com, but that is for a single tornado,
A tornado exists for 6 seconds,
with 3.03 APS we cast 3 tornadoes a second (lets take AP out of equation for a second)
so after 6 seconds we should have 6*3=18 tornadoes going at the same time on the mob
18*23'211=417'798 DPS from WW alone
Am i on the right track here?
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Thanks for the input, all DPS values are fixed, again a few lineup changes due to that
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- daggers win via APS, so lower wpn DPS will be covered by APS of the wand
- swords higher DPS but lower APS
The two of them might come out very very close even in total sheet DPS though the dagger is 200 DPS lower.
That's because the wand you linked is missing a socket roll, it rolled AIS instead, that's why the DPS of it is higher than 1420. I think DisposableHero is right on the rolls. But theoretically you are right as well - it's possible to get a higher raw DPS of the weapon at the expense of the socket or CD or even both and roll and additional single +min/max damage affix along with AIS.
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I've tried the AIS on the profile setup instead of the 200 INT it was approximately 17k DPS loss, i was curious about that too yesterday heh.
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
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I will bring you back to your previous post:
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
- Real swords
- Real wands
- Real daggers
The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
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Nice, hope you guys can work it out and get the tDPS going for wizards as well as the CM simulator built in
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