Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?
Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.
In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?
Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.
In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
Jesta, could you guys perhaps include Loroese's CMWW simulator into d3up.com eventually? That would make life pretty damn awesome. Also are there any news on the wizard tDPS as it has been implemented for barbs?
Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.
In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
Nice, hope you guys can work it out and get the tDPS going for wizards as well as the CM simulator built in
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).
The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.
Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
Main hand sword
604.5 - 1493.25
1.4 aps
11% ias
200 int
100 crit dam + socket = 200 crit dam
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.
I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Oh, it's interesting how the BIS wand in your calculator said 1304.1 DPS and crit damage is 98% (why not 100?).
Here's the BIS wand minus 68 intelligence:
One of the top wizards in the U.S. linked me these and asked if I wanted to buy it for 8 billion gold. Unfortunately, I required more minerals... er, gold. Er... cash.
Now it's in the #1 U.S. wizard's hand. He's on my friends list so I get to stare at it every single day...
Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.
Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.
Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
I've tried the AIS on the profile setup instead of the 200 INT it was approximately 17k DPS loss, i was curious about that too yesterday heh.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.
Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.
Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
Again if you had actually read our thread, or looked at post #41 in this thread you would see that the min/max damage is one roll. Example if you're to lazy to find it: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix/min-max-dam-13-fast-104
one roll. So there's that.
Then there's the fact that Sword/Wands dps top end is higher than dagger. I think I've finally gotten you to agree to that one. Now you have to realize that wands always roll the +max arcane. This makes it so they have 5 rollable props. Example to prove this is the top wand on your list: http://www.diablopro...m/item/15769185 if min/max isn't combined, then that item has 7 props. So you can see for sure there that min/max has a combine roll on some of the top items. Not seperate.
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
Well given that you quoted me saying the boots weren't top dps I'd assume that'd you'd realize it had something to do with the boots, but allright, you were also using a 98% crit weapon not 100%. It wasn't isolated to one thing. All I had said was look over our list, we had already done the same thing, and again with the rudeness, i'm beginning to realize you're not worth helping.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
See, you are combining two different things. I said here's my tool and you can use it if you want. You said it's obscene to say that tool is more tuned to wizards. Just cause you do not need the features, does not mean something isn't tailored for specifics with those tools.
Example: A school creates a wheel chair ramp by their stairs and a handicap accessible elevator. This allows people in wheel chairs to access extra features. However, you never use it cause you don't need to. Does this mean that the school didn't tailor things towards handicap usage? No, they did, even if you never use that feature.
I said it has tools for figuring out more detailed information about wizard spells. That has nothing to do with what you're doing, I said it was what WE used. It worked for what WE did. I don't care if you use a spreadsheet, or a piece of paper and a pencil, but saying it's obscene for me saying the tool was beneficial for what WE were doing makes no sense. I understand you did yours without Buffs. That's great. The items are still going to be the same more than likely.
I'm truly sorry that I came in here to help with things we had already worked out. You can tell from my first posts I was genuinely trying to help with something we worked on, on a different forum. It seems you won't even begin to read the thoughts we went through when creating ours and are just here to attack me. Since we've already completed ours and you won't take any help from looking at what we did there is no more point for me to post in this thread as it'll just be false accusations of being wrong and trying to attack a project that me and a lot of people worked hard on (both our top dps and my dpsCalc tool). Unless you directly want a response from me I won't cloud up your thread anymore.
You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
Awesome, I'll see if I can sit down and browse through your spreadsheets/code and get a grasp on things. If I notice any difference I'll be sure to mention them. There a better way to get ahold of ya? Feel free to shoot me an email (it's on the top of all the d3up pages) and say hi so I have your email addy
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
Took me a while to figure this out from going over various sites listing the possible affixes. The damage affixes were changed in 1.0.4 to display the +min/max physical damage affix in two lines instead of one. This was done by adding affixes called MinMaxDamage 104. Interestingly when they did this they buffed the values of the lvl 60, 61, and 62 affixes, probably to allow those weapons to have damage ranges in line with ilvl 63 weapons (I recall reading about this change). What the above signifies however is that ilvl 63 weapons appear to be able to roll these buffed affixes as well. An item level 63 weapon gets the most damage by rolling the ilvl 60 affix (of Malice, vs of Death).
These are however, 1 affix, despite taking two lines on the tooltip. Values of fast weapons (daggers and hand crossbows) are 265 minimum, 363 maximum (http://www.d3lexicon...dam-11-fast-104)
Additionally wands will always roll at least 1 wizard specific affix
So BiS Daggers vs Swords vs Wands
Dagger, Perfectly Rolled Darkblade (70 to 209 base damage)
Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (265 minimum damage, 363 maximum damage) gives a damage range of 335-837
+50% damage, +11% IAS, +200 Int, +100% Crit Damage, +Socket. You can debate 11% IAS vs 150 int/150 vit I suppose)
so 1.5*1.11 = 1.665 attack speed
(335 to 837) * 1.5 = 502 to 1256 damage, 1.665 attack speed which is 1463.5 DPS
Sword, Perfectly Rolled Runesword (107 to 248 base damage
Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (316 minimum, 411 maximum)
50% damage, 11% IAS, 200 Int, 100% crit damage, Socket
final outcome 635 to 1462 damage, 1.554 attacks per second, 1629.4 DPS
Wand, Perfectly Rolled Desolator Wand (122 to 226 base damage)
Same affixes as sword but we have to replace IAS with either 15 max arcane power or 10 APoC neither of which factor into our sheet DPS.
final outcome 657 to 1430 damage, 1.40 attacks per second, 1460.9 DPS
Putting the theoretical BiS dagger outlined above in the profile for MH + Trium + Zuni Boots increases the DPS by 84K
Putting the theoretical BiS sword outlined above in the same profile yields and increase of 129K over what is currently there and 45K over the dagger.
Putting the theoretical BiS wand outlined above in the same profile yields 42K over the current, but is 42K behind the dagger and 97K behind the sword
I can tell you 1420 isn't the highest right now. Here is one with 1466.2 dps for example. But, there are several reasons why we haven't seen a wand with 1500 dps.
The first reason is because the +min and max dmg affix was recently buffed. So before just a little while ago it was not possible. Second, diabloprogress is pretty slow at updating, and only will show you items that players have actually had equipped at the time it updated that character. There is a huge possibility that many items aren't even in its database. Just because an item has high dps doesn't mean someone wants to equip it if its other stats are bad. Lastly, the odds are astronomical. I'm not going to make up numbers, but there is probably a good possibility that such an item will never exist in the game.
Although, the wand I linked is only missing +2 base dmg, and +12-14 more dmg from the dmg affix, so maybe it can happen.
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
The +min dmg affix goes up to +36
The +max dmg affix goes up to +36
The +min-max dmg affix goes up to +316-727 (displayed as 2 separate lines on the weapon):
Line 1: "+316 Minimum Damage"
Line 2: "+411 Maximum Damage"
Since all of these affixes can roll on the same weapon it is actually possible to have even higher than 1500 dps on a wand, but I didn't include those other 2 affixes since they are pretty wasted.
Kieble, the base top end dmg does not matter. Once a weapon has a +min-max dmg affix on it, whether physical or elemental, only the base minimum damage is used in the dmg calculations.
And it appears that BDF2000 is correct that daggers have a lower range of +dmg affixes. I think the highest one might be +255-598 dmg. In fact, I believe every weapon speed has its own set of dmg affixes, which would make sense, but wasn't immediately obvious based on what I knew before. If anyone has any information of this it would be helpful in determining which weapon type is best.
Nice, thanks for the input guys, i'll make a couple of updates to the post in a second, to use the perfectly rolled weapons and i'll do up 2 sections:
- daggers win via APS, so lower wpn DPS will be covered by APS of the wand
- swords higher DPS but lower APS
The two of them might come out very very close even in total sheet DPS though the dagger is 200 DPS lower.
I can tell you 1420 isn't the highest right now. Here is one with 1466.2 dps for example. But, there are several reasons why we haven't seen a wand with 1500 dps.
That's because the wand you linked is missing a socket roll, it rolled AIS instead, that's why the DPS of it is higher than 1420. I think DisposableHero is right on the rolls. But theoretically you are right as well - it's possible to get a higher raw DPS of the weapon at the expense of the socket or CD or even both and roll and additional single +min/max damage affix along with AIS.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Sorry, but again, the numbers on those weapons are wrong. The max dmg on your weapons is above what is actually possible in game. For example, the dagger's maximum dmg should be calculated as (71 + 265 + 363) *1.50 = 1048.5
The number you used for the base dmg is right, only when there is no +min-max dmg modifiers on the weapon. When there is a +min-max dmg affix it uses the weapon's minimum dmg+1 to calculate the max dmg. I know it doesn't make sense, but this is how blizzard does the calculation for max dmg on weapons.
Check this item out for example. The base minimum dmg on this weapon is 68 so we calculate the min and max dmg as follows:
min dmg = (68+261)*1.50 = 493.5
max dmg = (69+261+340)*1.50 = 1005
All your max dmg weapon ranges are off and should be adjusted. I hope this helps.
Sorry, but again, the numbers on those weapons are wrong. The max dmg on your weapons is above what is actually possible in game. For example, the dagger's maximum dmg should be calculated as (71 + 265 + 363) *1.50 = 1048.5
The number you used for the base dmg is right, only when there is no +min-max dmg modifiers on the weapon. When there is a +min-max dmg affix it uses the weapon's minimum dmg+1 to calculate the max dmg. I know it doesn't make sense, but this is how blizzard does the calculation for max dmg on weapons.
Check this item out for example. The base minimum dmg on this weapon is 68 so we calculate the min and max dmg as follows:
min dmg = (68+261)*1.50 = 493.5
max dmg = (69+261+340)*1.50 = 1005
All your max dmg weapon ranges are off and should be adjusted. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the input, all DPS values are fixed, again a few lineup changes due to that
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
One last thing. I believe the max int/vit roll on neck is 150, so that would bring the values up to 350 int and 150 vit on amulet. Also the highest min-max dmg roll on neck and ring is 36-72. To get 105 would mean you also had a +max dmg affix roll, which is too many affixes. Not sure if this changes whether or not tal rasha's pulls ahead.
Also, this is a really nice list, thanks for taking the time to look through all the different combinations. I'm considering doing the same for DH.
Also, did you notice that some of your profiles have 167 str, 267 dex and others have 107 str, 207 dex? There is a bug with the paragon level on this site. You have to edit the profile and set the level back to 0 and save. Then edit it again and set it back to 100. This should adjust all of your stats, bringing them up to the right values.
Thanks Speaker, didn't notice those bugs, fixed it along with the ring/amulet damage ranges. Tal's amulet still losing out to perfect quintfecta by about 30k++. The lineup has changed again after those fixes and actually makes more sense now
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Well, I don't wanna steal Loroese's thunder. If he ever wants to work together on it, I'd be happy to chat.
In terms of the wizard tDPS, I haven't done any research on it yet, but if you wanna pm/email me with some info (or even post here) and point me to someplace I can read about it, I'd be happy to implement it. If it's the same math as the WW/RltW Barb, it'll be super easy.
You're more than welcome to use any or all of my information posted on the forums, including my simulator. That's partly why I post it in the first place. I'd also be more than happy to chat about any parts of it, even if you just want to use the code to add to something you're doing. As it stands, it doesn't sound like many people are using it, which isn't surprising because MATLAB is a very expensive engineering platform.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Nice, hope you guys can work it out and get the tDPS going for wizards as well as the CM simulator built in
I will bring you back to your previous post:
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
Theoretically speaking, the best wand in the world could have 1500 dps. Here is some math.
Highest minimum base damage on a wand is 122 with the highest damage modifier of 316 - 727 dmg + 50% dmg modifier + 11% IAS bonus.
Min dmg = (122 + 316) * 1.50 = 657 dmg
Max dmg = (122 + 727) * 1.50 = 1273.5 dmg
Average dmg = (657 + 1273.5) / 2 = 965.25 dmg
Attack speed = 1.40 * 1.11 = 1.554 APS
DPS = 965.25 * 1.554 = 1499.9985 DPS
Add in highest damage offhand of 130 - 484 the new numbers come out to
min dmg = 787
max dmg = 1757.5
average dmg =1272.25
DPS = 1977.0765
Now the theoretical maximum dps with a dagger.
Min dmg (70 + 316) * 1.50 = 579 dmg
Max dmg = (70 + 727) * 1.50 = 1195.5 dmg
Average dmg = (579 + 1195.5) / 2 = 887.25 dmg
Attack speed = 1.50 * 1.11 = 1.665 APS
DPS = 887.25 * 1.665 = 1477.27125 DPS
Add in offhand dmg again and
min dmg = 709
max dmg = 1679.5
avg dmg = 1194.25
DPS = 1988.42625
As you can see the difference between dagger and wand is very very small, but dagger does win out for those who were wondering.
But to get that 1500 dps you can't have crit, socket, AND Int. The main question then becomes how does the IAS compare to the Int (the crit damage should outweigh either).
Also, what's this tDPS that some of you are talking about?
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Yes you could. There is a max of 6 affixes, so +min and max dmg +% dmg +ias +int +socket +crit. That is 6. The +min and max dmg is one affix. It is the same thing as the +elemental dmg affixes, it is just displayed differently. Also I redid some of my calculations to include the added offhand dmg and compared that to the theoretically best dagger.
Edit: I now realize what you mean. All wands are forced to have one affix dedicated to a wizard specific affix. How unfortunate. I never knew this because it is not the same for other class specific items. It seems to only apply to wizard and witch doctor specific weapons.
I've tried the AIS on the profile setup instead of the 200 INT it was approximately 17k DPS loss, i was curious about that too yesterday heh.
I'm really not sure about this, Blizzard never did provide a full clear listing of possible affixes and the associated damage ranges, but, as someone mentioned a few posts ago there are 3 affixes:
+min dmg
+max dmg
+min-max dmg
As far as i can see the min-max range does not produce the same DPS as the 2 separate affixes do. (you can check in the diabloprogress all the top DPS items are 2 separate affixes +min and +max damage not the min/max range?) Also, i would seriously question the correction of the maximum possible 1'500 DPS wand - the game has been out for what? 6 months? With millions of players farming, billions of wands have been identified so far, yet the highest DPS ever detected so far is 1420ish which i linked earlier. May be there is an astronomically small probability of that item rolling, but with astronomical number of drops so far - there should have been at least a few coming close in the 1'480-1'490 range.
I think this is more of an issue with us not knowing what exactly is the min-max ranges are on the damage rolls.
Again if you had actually read our thread, or looked at post #41 in this thread you would see that the min/max damage is one roll. Example if you're to lazy to find it: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix/min-max-dam-13-fast-104
one roll. So there's that.
Then there's the fact that Sword/Wands dps top end is higher than dagger. I think I've finally gotten you to agree to that one. Now you have to realize that wands always roll the +max arcane. This makes it so they have 5 rollable props. Example to prove this is the top wand on your list: http://www.diablopro...m/item/15769185 if min/max isn't combined, then that item has 7 props. So you can see for sure there that min/max has a combine roll on some of the top items. Not seperate.
Well given that you quoted me saying the boots weren't top dps I'd assume that'd you'd realize it had something to do with the boots, but allright, you were also using a 98% crit weapon not 100%. It wasn't isolated to one thing. All I had said was look over our list, we had already done the same thing, and again with the rudeness, i'm beginning to realize you're not worth helping.
See, you are combining two different things. I said here's my tool and you can use it if you want. You said it's obscene to say that tool is more tuned to wizards. Just cause you do not need the features, does not mean something isn't tailored for specifics with those tools.
Example: A school creates a wheel chair ramp by their stairs and a handicap accessible elevator. This allows people in wheel chairs to access extra features. However, you never use it cause you don't need to. Does this mean that the school didn't tailor things towards handicap usage? No, they did, even if you never use that feature.
I said it has tools for figuring out more detailed information about wizard spells. That has nothing to do with what you're doing, I said it was what WE used. It worked for what WE did. I don't care if you use a spreadsheet, or a piece of paper and a pencil, but saying it's obscene for me saying the tool was beneficial for what WE were doing makes no sense. I understand you did yours without Buffs. That's great. The items are still going to be the same more than likely.
I'm truly sorry that I came in here to help with things we had already worked out. You can tell from my first posts I was genuinely trying to help with something we worked on, on a different forum. It seems you won't even begin to read the thoughts we went through when creating ours and are just here to attack me. Since we've already completed ours and you won't take any help from looking at what we did there is no more point for me to post in this thread as it'll just be false accusations of being wrong and trying to attack a project that me and a lot of people worked hard on (both our top dps and my dpsCalc tool). Unless you directly want a response from me I won't cloud up your thread anymore.
Awesome, I'll see if I can sit down and browse through your spreadsheets/code and get a grasp on things. If I notice any difference I'll be sure to mention them. There a better way to get ahold of ya? Feel free to shoot me an email (it's on the top of all the d3up pages) and say hi so I have your email addy
MinMaxDamage14_104 (of Death) - http://www.d3lexicon.../affix/of-death
Perfectly Rolled: 286 Minimum Damage, 381 Maximum Damage
MinMaxDamage11_104 (of Malice) - http://www.d3lexicon...fix/of-malice-3
Perfectly Rolled: 316 Minimum Damage, 411 Maximum Damage
These are however, 1 affix, despite taking two lines on the tooltip. Values of fast weapons (daggers and hand crossbows) are 265 minimum, 363 maximum (http://www.d3lexicon...dam-11-fast-104)
Additionally wands will always roll at least 1 wizard specific affix
So BiS Daggers vs Swords vs Wands
Dagger, Perfectly Rolled Darkblade (70 to 209 base damage)
Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (265 minimum damage, 363 maximum damage) gives a damage range of 335-837
+50% damage, +11% IAS, +200 Int, +100% Crit Damage, +Socket. You can debate 11% IAS vs 150 int/150 vit I suppose)
so 1.5*1.11 = 1.665 attack speed
(335 to 837) * 1.5 = 502 to 1256 damage, 1.665 attack speed which is 1463.5 DPS
Sword, Perfectly Rolled Runesword (107 to 248 base damage
Of Malice, lvl 60 104 version (316 minimum, 411 maximum)
50% damage, 11% IAS, 200 Int, 100% crit damage, Socket
final outcome 635 to 1462 damage, 1.554 attacks per second, 1629.4 DPS
Wand, Perfectly Rolled Desolator Wand (122 to 226 base damage)
Same affixes as sword but we have to replace IAS with either 15 max arcane power or 10 APoC neither of which factor into our sheet DPS.
final outcome 657 to 1430 damage, 1.40 attacks per second, 1460.9 DPS
Putting the theoretical BiS dagger outlined above in the profile for MH + Trium + Zuni Boots increases the DPS by 84K
Putting the theoretical BiS sword outlined above in the same profile yields and increase of 129K over what is currently there and 45K over the dagger.
Putting the theoretical BiS wand outlined above in the same profile yields 42K over the current, but is 42K behind the dagger and 97K behind the sword
The first reason is because the +min and max dmg affix was recently buffed. So before just a little while ago it was not possible. Second, diabloprogress is pretty slow at updating, and only will show you items that players have actually had equipped at the time it updated that character. There is a huge possibility that many items aren't even in its database. Just because an item has high dps doesn't mean someone wants to equip it if its other stats are bad. Lastly, the odds are astronomical. I'm not going to make up numbers, but there is probably a good possibility that such an item will never exist in the game.
Although, the wand I linked is only missing +2 base dmg, and +12-14 more dmg from the dmg affix, so maybe it can happen.
The +min dmg affix goes up to +36
The +max dmg affix goes up to +36
The +min-max dmg affix goes up to +316-727 (displayed as 2 separate lines on the weapon):
Line 1: "+316 Minimum Damage"
Line 2: "+411 Maximum Damage"
Since all of these affixes can roll on the same weapon it is actually possible to have even higher than 1500 dps on a wand, but I didn't include those other 2 affixes since they are pretty wasted.
And it appears that BDF2000 is correct that daggers have a lower range of +dmg affixes. I think the highest one might be +255-598 dmg. In fact, I believe every weapon speed has its own set of dmg affixes, which would make sense, but wasn't immediately obvious based on what I knew before. If anyone has any information of this it would be helpful in determining which weapon type is best.
- daggers win via APS, so lower wpn DPS will be covered by APS of the wand
- swords higher DPS but lower APS
The two of them might come out very very close even in total sheet DPS though the dagger is 200 DPS lower.
That's because the wand you linked is missing a socket roll, it rolled AIS instead, that's why the DPS of it is higher than 1420. I think DisposableHero is right on the rolls. But theoretically you are right as well - it's possible to get a higher raw DPS of the weapon at the expense of the socket or CD or even both and roll and additional single +min/max damage affix along with AIS.
The number you used for the base dmg is right, only when there is no +min-max dmg modifiers on the weapon. When there is a +min-max dmg affix it uses the weapon's minimum dmg+1 to calculate the max dmg. I know it doesn't make sense, but this is how blizzard does the calculation for max dmg on weapons.
Check this item out for example. The base minimum dmg on this weapon is 68 so we calculate the min and max dmg as follows:
min dmg = (68+261)*1.50 = 493.5
max dmg = (69+261+340)*1.50 = 1005
All your max dmg weapon ranges are off and should be adjusted. I hope this helps.
Thanks for the input, all DPS values are fixed, again a few lineup changes due to that
Also, this is a really nice list, thanks for taking the time to look through all the different combinations. I'm considering doing the same for DH.