And Multishot hits harder than Nether Tentacles ever did, and it goes through Invulnerable minions just the same
First, I agree, they both go through invulnerable minions the same.
Second, one EA vs one MS, yes, the MS hits harder.
Third, EA is overall more damage output than MS as far as hatred comparison goes.
1 MS with the 50% hatred cost rune is 20 hatred for 165% weapon damage. For the same hatred cost I can throw out 2 EA for 310% weapon damage.
The ONLY benefit MS has over EA is that you don't need to use it intelligently because its just one massive spread of arrows. But that's it.
I also mispoke when I said nether tentacle was 100% necessary. I meant to add in "depending on gearing". If you have the gear to just blow shit up then it barely matters what attacks your using. I have a friend that paralyzed from the waste down so he works from home and spends most of his time playing D3, his DH is his farming toon. He can run around A4 inferno spamming bola shots watching everything blow up and never worry about dying.
As to your comment about my replies to whats his face, yeah I may have been out of line, but I just don't care anymore. I am beyond tired of these crybabies and naysayers QQing about how terrible DH is now and how evil Blizzard is and all that shit. Especially when these same people can't even manage to formulate a non biased argument. Some people are just too retarded to realize that DH was in such an OP spot that Blizzard had to do something. Since every DH with 1/4 of a brain was using nether tentacle they nerfed it. So be it, it was OP. Do I think they nerfed it a bit too hard, yeah, I would have sped up its projectile speed so it only got 2+ hits on really big creatures instead of every creature in the game. But that's just me.
I guess IRL you also shout in between someone's argument to call them stupid? You must make wonderful conversation partner. Start attacking my arguments instead of me, then I may try to refute yours.
Honestly, this forum really went down to battle.net level lately.
Obviously you can't refute mine. When people like you make posts that are obviously wrong and refuse to listen to anyone else the only way to even have a shot at making you read an entire reply is to insult you, make you angry, and make you want to read it for more insults. It is sad but true. You can attack me with your ad-hominem bullshit all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are wrong and won't even bother to think critically about what you're trying to state as fact.
Yes, these forums have gone downhill, I agree, because morons won't actually think about what they are crying about before posting.
And IRL, I am actually a wonderful conversationalist. Simply because the people I have around me are intelligent enough to think about what is being talked about before forming an opinion on it.
Whoa, we have a badass over here. Keep badmouthing me over internet tough boy and see how much I care. 155%wd over line of a melassa moving projectile with small hitbox is bad, Overpenetration with Impale does 250% and it's instant. <stopped reading, I was losing braincells too fast to dare read more>
Okay.... So besides being WRONG you're obviously not capable of understanding simple math.
First, elemental arrow, 10 hatred, 155% weapon damage, full pierce without rune.
Second, impale, 25 hatred, 250% weapon damage, needs run for pierce.
Third, simple math, for the same 25 hatred your impale is doing 250% weapon damage for you get 2.5 elemental arrows equalling 387.5 weapon damage. Elemental arrow gives you more damage for your hatred on a point per point comparison. Elemental arrow has a wider hit column on its pierce than Impale. And if you don't care about the 3% lifesteal from nether tentacle you can still use Lightning bolts for the stun on crit and an attack almost as fast (or just as fast) moving as your impale. And, using elemental arrow, if you run up against reflect damage mobs you can do less damage if you want to by shooting one EA at a time for 155% weapon damage where impale is always the 250% each.
Your math is also flawed, your not factoring in crit dmg.
/facepalm
And how exactly does that make a difference? Crit damage % will increase the damage of impale(w/penetration) and elemental arrow equally. Remember, he is specifically talking about the impale with the penetration rune to pierce through mobs. So..... yeah.
Whoa, we have a badass over here. Keep badmouthing me over internet tough boy and see how much I care. 155%wd over line of a melassa moving projectile with small hitbox is bad, Overpenetration with Impale does 250% and it's instant. <stopped reading, I was losing braincells too fast to dare read more>
Okay.... So besides being WRONG you're obviously not capable of understanding simple math.
First, elemental arrow, 10 hatred, 155% weapon damage, full pierce without rune.
Second, impale, 25 hatred, 250% weapon damage, needs run for pierce.
Third, simple math, for the same 25 hatred your impale is doing 250% weapon damage for you get 2.5 elemental arrows equalling 387.5 weapon damage. Elemental arrow gives you more damage for your hatred on a point per point comparison. Elemental arrow has a wider hit column on its pierce than Impale. And if you don't care about the 3% lifesteal from nether tentacle you can still use Lightning bolts for the stun on crit and an attack almost as fast (or just as fast) moving as your impale. And, using elemental arrow, if you run up against reflect damage mobs you can do less damage if you want to by shooting one EA at a time for 155% weapon damage where impale is always the 250% each.
How exactly ias nerf hurts DH more than other classes? It's flat dps gain for every single class. It's side effects that made it 'over the line' for Blizzard, like LoH, Spirit generation/knockbacking finishers or %proc items/spells. None of this applies to DH specifically since it was percentage that heavily depended on your base damage in first place.
Actually, it didn't hurt us more than other classes. It actually hurt us a lot less than it did other classes. The IAS nerf did not apply to quivers, so we still have prenerf IAS values on our quivers. Anyone saying it hurt us more than anyone else is simply showing their bias towards DH's and not thinking about what they are saying.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane <stopped reading right there>
You're wrong. It deals amazing damage, 155% weapon damage. It hits everything in a narrow lane, which means its doing 155% weapon damage times however many mobs you get in the lane. If you were intelligent enough to know how to actually use the ability hitting EVERY mob you have aggro on is a non issue. If you are too stupid to use the skill properly, that is no ones fault but your own, but since you are complaining about the "very narrow lane" you obviously don't know what you're doing. As such anything further in your post is probably more utter garbage and wasn't worth reading.
Nether tentacle was nerfed, balanced, whatever. Fine, it was OP as hell. I was killing inferno butcher in less then 15 seconds they way it was. Now I actually have to do more than stand and spam one ability at him till my hatred is gone. I find Butcher farming to be a lot more interesting now. It was a good and needed change. People complaining about it are just a bunch of bads who apparently can't play something thats not ridiculously OP.
I have a 675 weapon, with +152-372 Arc dmg, +24% dmg, and 103 int, and a gem that give +14 min dmg and +14 max dmg.
How does it compare to a 900 weapon, with +153 min dmg, +354 max dmg, +44 dmg, 63 int?
Does it matter if it is Arc dmg? All my spells are Arcane!
And what is all these stats? The only one I understand is Int
When it comes to weapons the only think that really matters is suing the highest DPS weapon you can find. Everything else doesn't matter so much. If you are looking at 2 weapons of equal DPS then you wanna go with the one thathas better stats for you. As a wizard you're probably looking for Intellect, Crit, Crit damage, socket.
This is completely wrong. My current weapon is just 789 dps, but it has 65% crit damage + a socket (I have a 90% crit damage gem in it) for a total of 155% crit damage and 125 int. This weapon gives me more DPS than a 1450 dps weapon with no stats.
With my other gear, my current weapon puts me at 72.1k dps unbuffed. A 1500 dps weapon with no additional stats would put me at 73.9k dps.
Stats matter a whole lot.
It gives you more damage assuming you crit more than 50% of yoru attacks. I would get into the math with you but that would be pointless.
Yes though, you are semi right. If you are a DH with sharpshooter what you say can work, its what I do on mine. But isn't the OP talking about a wizard? For a wizard to make a crit build worthwhile he would need near max crit on every item capable of having it. Good luck withthat.
I've seen my fair share of topics complaining about the recent changes to Demon Hunters, and how we're nerfed, our class is broken, and how we're useless now, and whatnot. To respond to this, I feel some general knowledge may be needed.
First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
Nether tentacle was a bit OP, granted, but it is still a 100% necessary skill. Sure, could use multishot at its near useless 20 hatred a shot.... noty. Could use another elemental arrow... but... noty. Nether tentacle still pierces all targets, something that is essential against invulnerable mobs. It also has the life steal on it, which makes it nearly a must have against reflect damage mobs unless you have massively stacked other sources of healing via attacking.
As to people bitching about DH being nerfed into the ground, the combination of the IAS nerf and the nether tentacle nerf hurt a lot of DH's bad. I myself lost nearly 40k DPS from the IAS nerf and then losing the extra hits from nether tentacle was like... OMG i suck. But it didn't take long to regear myself.
Plus people need to realize we still get the best IAS in game with the proper gear. A 20% deadeye quiver with bonus damage to hungering arrow is insane. I actually picked one up off the AH for 1 mil, someone obviously didn't know what they had. 20% IAS, 8% dmg to hungering arrow, 165 agi, 70 vit, 1.08 hatred regen. Oh, and a socket. Yeah... win.
I have a 675 weapon, with +152-372 Arc dmg, +24% dmg, and 103 int, and a gem that give +14 min dmg and +14 max dmg.
How does it compare to a 900 weapon, with +153 min dmg, +354 max dmg, +44 dmg, 63 int?
Does it matter if it is Arc dmg? All my spells are Arcane!
And what is all these stats? The only one I understand is Int
When it comes to weapons the only think that really matters is suing the highest DPS weapon you can find. Everything else doesn't matter so much. If you are looking at 2 weapons of equal DPS then you wanna go with the one thathas better stats for you. As a wizard you're probably looking for Intellect, Crit, Crit damage, socket.
I've seen build centered around LoH and builds not even using it. I currently don't use and am in Act 4 inferno. If someone could elaborate its purpose becuase it seems to me that you can get more damage out of necks and rings and weapons if you don't search for it.
Depends on your gear, the better gear the less you really need it. Or the more of it you have the less you need to rely on defensive abilities. It really is just a playstyle and gear level choice.
Also, LoH is better than Life Steal most of the time because Life Steal is 80% reduced in Inferno, which I think is total bullshit BTW.
You didn't get 100 hours of playtime out of SC2? What did you do, clear the single player campaign then never play online at all? If so you are voluntarily skipping most of the game, which is your own choice and not Blizzard fault. Maybe it is what you say, its simply not targeting your demographic.
I did multiplayer and found it lacking... Every game up until platinum is rush or be rushed. It gets old after the 12th time. I miss the old map setting mini games from SC1 (I was big into making maps) I didn't stick around to see if they added that feature into SC2 (they primarly focus on pure match making). The achivements in single player kept me going for a bit but not much of a challenge, except that damn arcade game
I have to agree, I hate the early game rush as well, but you simply need to figure out how to avoid it. Once you do that its much more enjoyable.
Okay then I think you're a child with no perspective on development costs or income whatsoever. Paying $60 then $40 nearly two yearls later isn't very much money if you, you know, have a job.
You want 300 hours of entertainment instead of 100 for $60. That's just spoiled.
Good for you
I think your attempt to make me look like a child basing a price of a game as the only meanful factor for successful measurement is shallow and basic at best. I could have put a long quality rant about SC but I didn't really want to get off topic, sorry to dissapoint you.
I agree that 100 hours out of a game is a worthy investment but I didn't get 100 hours out of it, hence the disappointment. My statment still applies I used to get hundreds to thousands of hours form blizzard games, I don't anymore Still Good games just not targted for my demopgraphic anymore.
You didn't get 100 hours of playtime out of SC2? What did you do, clear the single player campaign then never play online at all? If so you are voluntarily skipping most of the game, which is your own choice and not Blizzard fault. Maybe it is what you say, its simply not targeting your demographic.
And the RMAH, well, if you dont like it, dont use it, simple as that. (there are better items on the GAH anyways, gold will always retain a direct cash value, so people have no real need to avoid the GAH, and it shows.) The bottom line is, in EVERY Blizzard RPG game (Aka WoW, D2) there is a MASSIVE cash for items market, there has been for around a decade, this is a simple case of "if you cannot beat them, join them", I dont see a reason for them not to, this game is not "pay to win required", because I win at this game everyday, and it aint costing me a damn dime. ;p
Exactly this. I have over 150 bucks in my RMAH waiting to either get spent or be used. If I can use Diablo 3 to pay my WoW account of buy my MoP, fuck yeah. And if I happen to see an ungodly item on the RMAH I have the funds to get it. So its win win.
I have a friends who is disabled. He is paralyzed from the waste down due to a bad auto accident. He plays D3 more than anyone I know and guess what? Last week he deposited 2k in his paypal account. Yeah, RMAH is the devil for sure!
Whether RMAH exists or not people will buy and sell items. And just because the RMAH is there doesn't mean the game is pay to win, just means the average player can get paid for playing if they have a brain.
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First, I agree, they both go through invulnerable minions the same.
Second, one EA vs one MS, yes, the MS hits harder.
Third, EA is overall more damage output than MS as far as hatred comparison goes.
1 MS with the 50% hatred cost rune is 20 hatred for 165% weapon damage. For the same hatred cost I can throw out 2 EA for 310% weapon damage.
The ONLY benefit MS has over EA is that you don't need to use it intelligently because its just one massive spread of arrows. But that's it.
I also mispoke when I said nether tentacle was 100% necessary. I meant to add in "depending on gearing". If you have the gear to just blow shit up then it barely matters what attacks your using. I have a friend that paralyzed from the waste down so he works from home and spends most of his time playing D3, his DH is his farming toon. He can run around A4 inferno spamming bola shots watching everything blow up and never worry about dying.
As to your comment about my replies to whats his face, yeah I may have been out of line, but I just don't care anymore. I am beyond tired of these crybabies and naysayers QQing about how terrible DH is now and how evil Blizzard is and all that shit. Especially when these same people can't even manage to formulate a non biased argument. Some people are just too retarded to realize that DH was in such an OP spot that Blizzard had to do something. Since every DH with 1/4 of a brain was using nether tentacle they nerfed it. So be it, it was OP. Do I think they nerfed it a bit too hard, yeah, I would have sped up its projectile speed so it only got 2+ hits on really big creatures instead of every creature in the game. But that's just me.
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Obviously you can't refute mine. When people like you make posts that are obviously wrong and refuse to listen to anyone else the only way to even have a shot at making you read an entire reply is to insult you, make you angry, and make you want to read it for more insults. It is sad but true. You can attack me with your ad-hominem bullshit all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you are wrong and won't even bother to think critically about what you're trying to state as fact.
Yes, these forums have gone downhill, I agree, because morons won't actually think about what they are crying about before posting.
And IRL, I am actually a wonderful conversationalist. Simply because the people I have around me are intelligent enough to think about what is being talked about before forming an opinion on it.
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And how exactly does that make a difference? Crit damage % will increase the damage of impale(w/penetration) and elemental arrow equally. Remember, he is specifically talking about the impale with the penetration rune to pierce through mobs. So..... yeah.
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Okay.... So besides being WRONG you're obviously not capable of understanding simple math.
First, elemental arrow, 10 hatred, 155% weapon damage, full pierce without rune.
Second, impale, 25 hatred, 250% weapon damage, needs run for pierce.
Third, simple math, for the same 25 hatred your impale is doing 250% weapon damage for you get 2.5 elemental arrows equalling 387.5 weapon damage. Elemental arrow gives you more damage for your hatred on a point per point comparison. Elemental arrow has a wider hit column on its pierce than Impale. And if you don't care about the 3% lifesteal from nether tentacle you can still use Lightning bolts for the stun on crit and an attack almost as fast (or just as fast) moving as your impale. And, using elemental arrow, if you run up against reflect damage mobs you can do less damage if you want to by shooting one EA at a time for 155% weapon damage where impale is always the 250% each.
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Actually, it didn't hurt us more than other classes. It actually hurt us a lot less than it did other classes. The IAS nerf did not apply to quivers, so we still have prenerf IAS values on our quivers. Anyone saying it hurt us more than anyone else is simply showing their bias towards DH's and not thinking about what they are saying.
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You're wrong. It deals amazing damage, 155% weapon damage. It hits everything in a narrow lane, which means its doing 155% weapon damage times however many mobs you get in the lane. If you were intelligent enough to know how to actually use the ability hitting EVERY mob you have aggro on is a non issue. If you are too stupid to use the skill properly, that is no ones fault but your own, but since you are complaining about the "very narrow lane" you obviously don't know what you're doing. As such anything further in your post is probably more utter garbage and wasn't worth reading.
Nether tentacle was nerfed, balanced, whatever. Fine, it was OP as hell. I was killing inferno butcher in less then 15 seconds they way it was. Now I actually have to do more than stand and spam one ability at him till my hatred is gone. I find Butcher farming to be a lot more interesting now. It was a good and needed change. People complaining about it are just a bunch of bads who apparently can't play something thats not ridiculously OP.
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It gives you more damage assuming you crit more than 50% of yoru attacks. I would get into the math with you but that would be pointless.
Yes though, you are semi right. If you are a DH with sharpshooter what you say can work, its what I do on mine. But isn't the OP talking about a wizard? For a wizard to make a crit build worthwhile he would need near max crit on every item capable of having it. Good luck withthat.
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Nether tentacle was a bit OP, granted, but it is still a 100% necessary skill. Sure, could use multishot at its near useless 20 hatred a shot.... noty. Could use another elemental arrow... but... noty. Nether tentacle still pierces all targets, something that is essential against invulnerable mobs. It also has the life steal on it, which makes it nearly a must have against reflect damage mobs unless you have massively stacked other sources of healing via attacking.
As to people bitching about DH being nerfed into the ground, the combination of the IAS nerf and the nether tentacle nerf hurt a lot of DH's bad. I myself lost nearly 40k DPS from the IAS nerf and then losing the extra hits from nether tentacle was like... OMG i suck. But it didn't take long to regear myself.
Plus people need to realize we still get the best IAS in game with the proper gear. A 20% deadeye quiver with bonus damage to hungering arrow is insane. I actually picked one up off the AH for 1 mil, someone obviously didn't know what they had. 20% IAS, 8% dmg to hungering arrow, 165 agi, 70 vit, 1.08 hatred regen. Oh, and a socket. Yeah... win.
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When it comes to weapons the only think that really matters is suing the highest DPS weapon you can find. Everything else doesn't matter so much. If you are looking at 2 weapons of equal DPS then you wanna go with the one thathas better stats for you. As a wizard you're probably looking for Intellect, Crit, Crit damage, socket.
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Depends on your gear, the better gear the less you really need it. Or the more of it you have the less you need to rely on defensive abilities. It really is just a playstyle and gear level choice.
Also, LoH is better than Life Steal most of the time because Life Steal is 80% reduced in Inferno, which I think is total bullshit BTW.
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I have to agree, I hate the early game rush as well, but you simply need to figure out how to avoid it. Once you do that its much more enjoyable.
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But seriously, I just hope they update the hotfix log so we can actually see what they did.
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You didn't get 100 hours of playtime out of SC2? What did you do, clear the single player campaign then never play online at all? If so you are voluntarily skipping most of the game, which is your own choice and not Blizzard fault. Maybe it is what you say, its simply not targeting your demographic.
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Exactly this. I have over 150 bucks in my RMAH waiting to either get spent or be used. If I can use Diablo 3 to pay my WoW account of buy my MoP, fuck yeah. And if I happen to see an ungodly item on the RMAH I have the funds to get it. So its win win.
I have a friends who is disabled. He is paralyzed from the waste down due to a bad auto accident. He plays D3 more than anyone I know and guess what? Last week he deposited 2k in his paypal account. Yeah, RMAH is the devil for sure!
Whether RMAH exists or not people will buy and sell items. And just because the RMAH is there doesn't mean the game is pay to win, just means the average player can get paid for playing if they have a brain.