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    Sep 17, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on D2 Ladder Reset - S7
    NickM83- I only play HC and there is no such thing as NL hardcore. Everyone kills off their characters at the end of the seasons.

    Thats funny, I seem to be able to create and play non ladder hardcore characters no problem.

    Or were you just getting at you don't play non ladder hc because ladder is more populated, in which case, seems like ladder resets are a popular feature. Glad D3 is removing this system! GJ Bliz!
    Posted in: News & Announcements

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    Sep 16, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on D2 Ladder Reset - S7
    Don't know why blizzards bothering though. The last patch failed at actually stopping botters/hackers, and the lame respecs actually rewarded botters more. I saw more really high levels in duel games last ladder then ever before. Man its easy to get that level 97+ auradin or v/t when you can just bot them as a hammerdin and respec to whatever. Also noticed a lot less level trains going on in norm/nm throughout the season. Good job blizzard, keep up the hard work! Its so much fun when all people do is bot or follow bots.

    Fix the game blizzard, roll it back to pre-respec, actually do something about bots/hacks for a change, and maybe fix desynching or something thats actually broken? Either that or just admit defeat and release pub versions of bots and hacks to make the game fair for those who don't want to cheat.

    I never liked the concept of a ladder season, sure it is alot of fun for the first few days but it seems like an easy way to fix a poorly made game economy.

    You know...you could just play non ladder if you don't like the ladder concept, don't have to worry about resets then. Otherwise I'll agree the economy is broken if you agree to show me a perfectly geared character.
    Posted in: News & Announcements

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    Sep 6, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    I love how you just ignore all the valid points I've made and throw out more irrelevancy. Your end argument still amounts to that an item with a finite demand is never going to lose value in an infinite spawn system. At some point, the influx of new characters who level high enough to have a need for the end game binding gear is going to fall below the pace at which the gear is being found, at which point the flood begins.

    What your doing is going from the D2 mentality of, man I can't wait to level this alt in 2 days and jump right into the end game/pvp action using the gear I already spent 6 months grinding for, and turning it into damn, do I really want to waste 6 months grinding this toons gear in the same fashion I just ground my last toons gear just so I can play end game/pvp? I'd rather see the Diablo franchise move forward by expanding upon elements that made the previous installment different from other games, rather then adding in the same generic mainstream elements that every other game uses. There's a hundred other free mmo's/rpg's that are more similar to WoW then Diablo, and I was hoping Blizzard was going to move Diablo further in the Diablo direction, rather then push it in the WoW direction...guess I was hoping for too much.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 6, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    But in those 6 months won't more people start playing, or people at least make new characters that will need those items?

    The number of players are irrelevant. If twice as many people play, twice as many of a said item will be found.

    And, lets not forget, the rates will probably be WAY less than the 500k a month for 1 million players. So, even if it is "only" twice as long to the flooded state, with proper drop rates that could be the difference between 2 years and 4 years.

    Haha I was figuring it taking 2 months of grinding for the average player to have a good chance of acquiring a specific item was pretty rare. Sure it could take more or less depending no your luck and trading skills, or lack thereof, but what exactly are "proper drop rates." Spend months trying to acquire a specific item, try it out on a single character, then you can't ever toy around with it anymore beyond that, that's gonna be real appealing to people who don't have 6 hours a day to waste farming a game.

    And, this idea only examines drops vs demand created by existing characters who needed it and new characters who need it. Once you get to the 1+ year range, you're going to get people who delete characters from prolonged inactivity.

    Uh, totally irrelevant to binding. If they didn't bind and a character auto deletes or whatever from inactivity, the gear would poof just the same.

    Also, not mentioned, are the multiple characters that one person will have that might want the same item. With the old way, the demand is limited to individual accounts, or maybe more than one on an account that might have two active characters that use the same item. With BoE, it's every single character that EVER wants to use that item.

    Ughh, your saying this like its a good thing or something. I thoroughly enjoyed tinkering with multiple builds and pvp'ing in D2 way more then pvm grinding. Sure pvm was fun for a while but it wasn't what kept me in the game for so long. I could spend a few months at the start of each ladder farming enough wealth to nicely gear 3-4 alts. I could then focus the rest of the ladder season on the build tinkering/pvp aspects of the game I found much more enjoyable.

    Now, here you are, saying that a change that is going to punish that style of play, and force me to pvm grind more and more for each new idea I want to tinker with is somehow going to make the game more fun? If this was the case with D2 my fix would have been to either play the game for a year before I was bored senseless of it instead of 10, or to have played 3-4 characters a ladder instead of 50-100.

    But hey, what do I know, I guess I'm the only one who always enjoyed hitting that point where I had little incentive to brainlessly farm anymore and could enjoy other aspects of the game that were more challenging and required some thought.

    Is this your argument... "big deal" ? :facepalm:

    Yup, and its a better one then pretending boe will keep a game economy fresh forever.

    This is three times longer and makes a huge difference if you take into account how many new characters are created for that time. If Uber helmet drops at an average rate of 500k a month, new characters are created at an average rate of 167k a month and everyone goes through 3 Uber helmets on average before they get one that is high enough... the market won't get flooded at all.

    Whatever the exact population of the game is, is irrelevant. The drop rate will rise and fall proportionally to the amount of active players.

    P.S. Read the thread all over again. Maybe 5 or 6 guys there are arguing against your opinion about BoE mod being useless, but you just keep going. We all have freedom of speech and other people can not impose their views on you, but you must know when to stop arguing.

    Its actually just because I haven't read a convincing argument yet.

    Just tell me, if everyone sold the first shako(or 10) they found on d2, would the game never have become flooded with shakos? This is the lack of impact boe has on a long term economy...
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 5, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    Ughh let me try to explain it another way why it fails.

    Let's say theres 1 million characters. There is no boe. Uber helmet drops at an average rate of 500k a month. It will take 2 months before there is enough for everyone, and after that the market just floods more and more.

    Now, let's say under those same circumstances, the Uber helmet is boe. It takes...omg 2 months before there is enough for everyone. Just for the sake of making boe look good let's assume boe items have mod ranges on them like most d2 items had, so everyone goes through 3 of them on average before they get one that is high enough they don't really care much to look for better. It takes 6 months instead of 2 to flood the market...big deal.

    BTW if you think the d2 market was truly flooded I'd like to see your character(s) with all perfect modded versions of the best gear, charms and all for that specific set up. If its flooded clearly anyone could acquire these items. The market flooded with crap versions of the best items, not with the best items. I'd rather just have the freedom to experiment with gear I find for multiple potential builds rather then acting like a feature that will give a slight extension at best to market stability is some kind of uber economy fix.

    Also as far as your binding gear in wow goes, let's not forget how often new best gear is patched into the game. Clearly now...this couldn't possible have had any impact...it was boe all the way right?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 4, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    I don't think Blizzard is going to fuck up drop rates that badly. Problem solved.

    As long as characters that need the item are created at the same pace as the item is found, then there won't be any problems. (I admit that there will still be some problems and fluctuation, human trade behavior is not 100% predictable, but nothing too major)

    Drop rates are pretty irrelevant. All they will effect is if it takes 3 months for the game to saturate, 6 months, or a year. If they make it so things are so rare it takes 10 years for the game to saturate nobodies gonna put that much time into grinding, so you'll either just end up with people quitting or botting:P

    Any way they go here boe isnt going to stop market saturation.

    Well, you don't have to delete it, the item is gone anyway.

    If its gone, why would it be sitting in my characters inventory? Its bind on equip, not delete on equip. Sure I can't trade it to you, but I'm still not going to trade you for yours, so what did it really accomplish?

    Hmm... Auto stats ruins those odd builds that we all love, and respecs somewhat removes the need to make new characters? Maybe xD

    :)
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 4, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    You have to explain this part to me because that makes no sense at all. As soon as someone equips the item it is worth nothing to other players.

    Ok, I find one item, I equip it, it binds to me, I can't trade it. Its now worthless to everyone but me. What about the next 10 of that same item I find that I'm not going to boe? What about everyone else that equips one and finds multiple. BoE would have about the same impact on the value of items as if everyone sold their first shako in d2 to charsi. There'd only be like 827598273958729375928375 instead of 827598273958729375828375.

    In other words its life ends when you find a better item or decide to delete your character.

    Well only end game gear is going to bind. Why on earth would anyone delete a character whom they leveled up to end game status when their is auto statting and respecs? I could see deleting an end game character and losing some boe gear because you recognize you could make a more uber version of that character, but when its impossible to mess your character up why would you ever delete?

    Off topic here but man, wanna take a guess why I think auto statting and respecs are lame as well?

    That would basically guarantee a working and stable end-game economy for an infinite period of time.

    EPIC LAZY MANEUVER!!

    Ok, I find one item, I equip it, it binds to me, I can't trade it. Its now worthless to everyone but me. What about the next 10 of that same item I find that I'm not going to boe? What about everyone else that equips one and finds multiple. BoE would have about the same impact on the value of items as if everyone sold their first shako in d2 to charsi. There'd only be like 827598273958729375928375 instead of 827598273958729375828375.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 4, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    Well, of course money accumulates. That is not what gold sinks are trying to prevent. Gold sinks are there to make use of the money and give it a value. In Diablo 2 there was no use for gold, which made it worthless.

    Actually, the reason gold was a joke in d2 was because you could just trade for an item worth more gold then you could carry. If gambling wasn't so slow, you could carry infinite gold, and you didn't lose so much when you died, you would see people doing mass gold trades all the time.

    If repair costs weren't the only gold sink in d2, and gold was still worthless, do you think adding 10 more gold sinks would make gold in the game more fun or more annoying? This is the direction people seem to think is smart for d3 to move in, GOLDS USELESS LETS GIVE IT SINKS!


    Don't be so hasty to jump into conclusions; nothing says that we don't barter any longer (they've released no details on the trading system). What they might do is just an easy way to barter (like, a large trading "chat" without the need to make games like "WTB SoJ" or resorting to D2jsp.

    Binding end game gear + currency economy = same set up Dungeons and Dragons Online has. Go play it and tell me how much bartering goes on. Once you get your end game gear, you no longer have a use for money, so you just horde massive amounts of it. If you happen to make an alt or want to buy one of the harder to get non-binding items, you just go dump some money in the auction house because its faster then bartering. The economy still gets flooded with items, and the entire flow of it amounts to noobs buying stuff from more experienced players. Once your high level you can't really trade even if you want to because everything binds. Thats a pretty failed game economy in my opinion. At least D2 when you got to high level and had uber stuff there was still more economy type things you could do rather then just sell to noobs and horde currency.

    Which entirely depends on how many items are actually BoE. Trade involving those will go down true, but all items that are not BoE will probably greatly benefit from the new gold-based currency.

    Bartering gets neutered while selling the same junk back and forth for a useless currency item they have to add a bunch of sinks in for to try to give it some value becomes the norm. Good job blizzard.

    This just seems like a thread of "I liked the D2 economy" v. "I think it can be improved" arguing. I belong in the latter group - and so does Blizz. That's about the end of discussion.

    v. the group of Let's mainstream D3 so its more like every other online rpg. That's the group you belong in.

    D2's the best(and only) online rpg I've ever played where bartering was the main economic force. If you were in the "I think it can be improved" group, you would fully support an improvement upon the barter system, not neutering it so we can have a WoW like auction house and gold.

    Like has been mentioned previously, why not start where D2 lacked, and try to add some aspects into D3 so people can just find trades easier in game and don't have to go to a D2jsp type site?

    Because the system brings with it a lot of other problems that Blizzard don't want to carry over to D3. The hardcore D2 trader is a niche player, who is severely outnumbered by the so-called "casual" player who would much rather prefer a trading system. I don't have any numbers on this, but I think it's a safe bet to assume.

    The casual players actually benefitted the most from the D2 trade system. Haven't you ever hopped in one of those games named "OVERPAY 4 XXX" or "ALL 4 PUL" and some rich dude traded you like 10x what your item was worth just because he wanted it fast? Well this assumes your not mixing up casual and clueless. If your clueless what everything is worth I can see how you would hate bartering, but if you want no learning curve at all, don't play an rpg?

    I think the vast majority of what you'd consider "hardcore D2 traders" anyhow were pvp players. I know this forum is heavily biased towards pvm, but go check out d2jsp just to get a fresh view on the game. It has a lot more users then this forum and its pretty obvious they care a lot more about pvp over there then pvm. But even still, why dumb the game down just to better suit those who don't want to put any effort into learning the system, especially when its as simple as just making a few buddies with a clue in game and asking them for advice before you do a trade? Pretty much anyone will give you a straight up answer on what something is worth unless your asking the guy your potentially trading, or one of his friends:P
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 3, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    Hokay, so first, saying blizz has a bunch of econ experts, and they're gonna whip the game into shape is kinda stupid. These so called experts run many sectors of the the real world economy, and look where it got us.

    rofl, but...they're experts dude, w/e they say is gospel, don't question it!

    Basically, I think they would rather have people play the game to get better items to the play the game, then trade to get better items. I for one am happy about that. If you're not, well, I'm sorry.

    Alright here's the break down of the game for a lot of players...

    pvm = easy and repetitive
    pk/pvp = much more challenging and random
    trading = tool to cut down on time you must spend pvm'ing to get good at pvp'ing

    So yeah...cutting out the means to speed through the easy repetitive part of the game and get to the challenging, random portion of the game just doesn't sound like a good idea. You still have to grind to get there, just not nearly as much if you know what your doing.

    Besides, you say you would rather have people get better items by playing the game? Does trading and pvp'ing not qualify as playing? If so, it seems like you've only ever experienced 1/3 of the game.

    And as people keep finding them (and probably duping them), there is just more and more and more. With BoE, you can't give away your old items, so that means you have to absorb MORE items. That's how it removes items from the economy.

    And my exact reason why BoE is nothing more then an annoying feature that kills trading. How is BoE going to fix the problem of people finding more and more and more and more? Its not. If I have one of an item bound to me...I HAVE NO REASON TO BIND A SECOND. If its bind on equip only...guess what, they're gonna be horded, muled, and transferred just like stuff on D2 is.

    All BoE accomplishes is punishing the segment of players, who in D2 got their main enjoyment out of pvp or tinkering with builds. Suddenly your net loss for a failed character turns from a few hours of leveling/trading to many, many hours of pvm grind. What a raw deal that is once you've thoroughly raped the pvm aspect of the game inside out and its so easy for you its a bore.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 3, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    If not, then yes, the D2 play style that you enjoy will probably be gone.

    Woohoo someone understands! D2 was an awesome game that has a lot of huge differences in comparison to a lot of other online rpg type games, so why mainstream D3 with the same lame systems of binding gear and a trash currency with no use other then sinks and hording, when D2 did just fine with "currencies" basically being small crafting items you could store a lot of.(runes/gems)

    To suggest that D2's success relies on not having any BoE items seems like a weak connection to me. I'd put my money on the itemization and random element to items, and in the case of PvP'ers, the basically unrestricted PvP play it offered. Trading items for items, given the structure of D2, was probably a helpful part of that, but not the driving factor of D2's success.

    And of course, that doesn't include whoever disliked the game and stopped playing. Perhaps equally many did it because they could not grasp the trading system?

    Trading items for items is going to be crippled with binding gear and a currency rather then barter based economy. This is why I gripe about those systems, its one of the D2 staples that sets it aside from the masses, why jack it up and mainstream it so its just another WoW clone economy?

    As far as the unrestricted pvp play, I'd agree with ya, that's another huge attraction to D2, and I'd hate to see D3 be neutered down to mutual only arena based pvp garbage, but hey, that's a whole different topic:P

    As far as those that quit the game because they couldn't grasp trading...so what? RPG's should require some learning and thinking to get good at. I've ripped myself off trading plenty of times while learning the game. I've also ripped myself off plenty of times just to get something fast, which was another great thing about the way it worked. You could make wealth in the game just by trading for an item, then turn around and trading it again. I could play for an hour and gain more wealth then I'd have made mf'ing for an hour. Why dumb a game down to the point it has minimal learning curve just to appease people who can't be bothered to take a little time to learn the economy? Especially when its easy as making a few in game friends and double checking with them before making a trade...

    BOE does one thing: create a sink for the best items. To take D2 as an example. Enigma, BOTD, CoH, etc, are items that no one in their right mind would sell to a merchant because these are the best items. These continue to build up and will never disappear from the economy. In D3 there are sinks for all other items in the form of salvaging, but the best items are worth more as items than as salvage materials, so they need a different sink. BOE is the simple solution.

    How does binding cause an item to disappear from the economy? Last I checked if an item wasn't destroyed permanently its still in the economy. Sure, I can't trade my bound item, but I still have one so why would I trade anyone else for theirs? If there is only BoE items will still build up regardless.

    As far as salvaging gear goes, this system was already in place in D2. Let's say you made a runeword that consists of 2 HR's and a base item worth another HR. Whatever random mod rolls on it rolls low. You might use it for a while simply because its still an uber runeword, but 2 weeks later you roll a higher one. You then trade(salvage) your lower roll obviously for less then the value of the original ingredients to create it. Meanwhile some poor player, or someone looking to just test a build out, is totally thrilled that they got something that is still awesome for fairly cheap. This was actually a pretty amazing system for casual players in D2. If you knew what things were worth it allowed you to gear up a pretty sweet character with actually very little grind time, but hey, what do I know, this couldn't possible have been attractive to anyone vs just grinding the same npc ai over and over.

    Also why are you comparing the economy of a game with cars. That just does not work.

    Wait a minute...so what your saying is if I apply a concept being used in game to a real life economic issue to show how lame it is, its a poor example and doesn't work...BUT

    Look guys, Blizzard hired people that actually studied economics to aid them. And those 4 years you spend learning basic economy is nothing compared to what those people know.

    It for some reason works the other way around?

    Is this team of economic experts going to require that your UBER 1337 SWORD require a constant supply of materials(spare parts) to keep it in working order, and you have to give it a lube job every 3 months or 3000 miles? Also your going to pay property taxes on it gas it up, or recharge it every night if you go electric. Make sure you get the sport car model and not the minivan model so you can impress the ladies. Oh depending what state you play from, you might have to carry insurance as well. If you have kids that wanna take the UBER 1337 out for a night, you'll just have to go get some extras, since its bound and you can't just toss them the keys:(

    So yeah anyways, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm just not impressed that blizzard highered so called economic experts to try to design some cool fancy game economy, and binding gear is their so called improvement over D2?

    ***hint from your friendly forum troll*** botting did far more to screw up the D2 economy then lack of binding items.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 2, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    No, but it certainly does work. In Diablo 2 gold i abundant and never used for anything.

    Exactly, so why bother with it. D2's barter system showed that people can still trade without a currency. Why not just do things to make in game bartering easier, so we don't have to use out of game resources to find trades.

    The crafting system, if it creates good items, can also be used for this purpose as well.

    Just like the gems and runes in D2 omg! Both were used as a form of currency, but also used for crafting. The only sink to them was that they had uses, rather then ok, lets all horde useless gold and come up with a million useless sinks to try to control it. Just skip the bs and get right to the meat.

    Yes... That's exactly how "replayability" works. You are suppose to make a new character and build it from the ground up. If you just trade all your items for different ones than you defeat one of the main time sinks of the game, and what the game is all about. Getting the items.

    I'm gonna have to politely disagree here. A main part of the game for many players was pvp/pk. What kept such players attracted to D2 was you didn't have to deal with a "time sink" each time you wanted to experiment with a new character. The time sink was the few hours it took to get up to 80+, vs a lot of other games where you needs months invested to get an end game experience.

    I know you pvm'ers will argue til your blue in the face, but for all the pvp'ers pvm was just the easy repetitive crap you did to get your gear. If this wasn't true why was botting so prevalent? If it was actually fun to just grind gear over and over, 3/4 of the active links to bnet wouldn't be people botting. In case you can't put 2 and 2 together, nobody bots to get better gear to bot with, people bot to skip the so called "time sink" and get right into the pvp/pk aspect of the game. Killing botting would be a good thing to keep the playing field fair for all, but needlessly increasing item grind time by causing gear to bind just doesn't seem like a good way to go about insuring d3 has the same replay factor as d2.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 2, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    As far as the economy in general, I think gold sinks are really for players who are leveling. Once characters max out, there is no real way to control these players sitting on more and more money.

    And there is no way to prevent such players from xferring to alts. Anyone with 1 friend in game can xferr all the money they want. Gold sink = noob annoyance, not long term game economy fix.

    However, I think what helps diablo is their replayability. Where most RPGs have players consistsntly play their high level characters, Diablo is popular for it's replayability so players aren't sitting on their high lvl characters.

    Hmm so lets see...D2 is well known for its replayability. Its also the only online rpg I can think of off the top of my head with no binding gear. Could there might actually be some sort of connection there?

    Maybe the long term d2 players liked being able to say eh, I'm sick of my barb, I'm gonna trade all my barb gear for zon gear. I don't know about you but that option is a lot more appealing to me, and makes me want to experiment with a lot more characters then most other games do, where its eh, I'm sick of my barb...but do I really wanna spend 3 months doing the same boring grind I just did on my barb just to get them up to par?

    I find it funny how a lot people are discussing economics all serious even though they barely have any knowledge how economics actually work.

    Look guys, Blizzard hired people that actually studied economics to aid them. And those 4 years you spend learning basic economy is nothing compared to what those people know.

    So what? This is totally irrelevant. When you buy a car does it bind to you, and it lasts forever, but nobody else is ever aloud to drive it? The actual economic ripple effect of owning an automobile is much more complex, but does knowing that hold any relevancy to a game economy? Unless all items are going to get permanently destroyed through usage and there is pthieving, real life economics don't really apply much to that of a game anyhow.

    Can you just name for me one online rpg where gear binding was a success in keeping a long term, stable game economy? I can name a few where it didn't. Dungeons and Dragons Online and Last Chaos...

    Besides if your main argument for why bound items are good is because BLIZZARD SAID SO, that's not not really all that good of a reason. I mean, after all, MY MOM said bound items are lame, she knows more then blizzard.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 1, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Binding Gear
    So I found a game that currently is what the D3 economy will be! Dungeons and Dragons Online. Basically all the top end uber gear binds to your character.

    What the economy consists of is high level players selling all their decent randoms to low level players, as they have no use for them, since they have godly bound gear. Meanwhile, all people with uber bound gear just horde money as they have no use for it.

    You think the game kinda has some sort of economy going for it when your a newbie, but that feeling only lasts until you get some uber bound gear. You then realize pretty much everything in the auction house is crap, and you then start your very own stockpile of platinum that you will never spend.

    As far as bartering goes, which was a staple of D2 trading, DDO has none! All the top end gear binds, so all you could really barter for is pretty much your trash for some other players trash. However this is a total waste of time, when you realize you have a boatload of useless platinum laying around, and there's an auction house full of low end gear that sells for platinum.

    In an attempt to control currency, they added in plenty of sinks. You have to pay for things like repairing gear, being able to modify your chosen feats or enhancements, hirelings, potions, various buffs, and guild type items. Its really a pain in the neck to pay for this stuff as a noob, but later on you have so much money anyhow that sinks become irrelevant. You could add in new sinks, but then you just stick it to the noobs harder.

    Maybe I'm just a pessimist here, but how is D3's economy going to be any different then that of DDO? I'd be much more excited about sticking with the barter theme thats been prevalent in previous diablo games rather then reverting to another generic currency hording economy.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion

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    Sep 1, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on Interview Analysis - PvP
    "There were vast amounts of exploits that could be used (PK'ing easily the most notorious of the bunch)"

    Exploit...according to dictionary.com anyhow.

    –noun
    a striking or notable deed; feat; spirited or heroic act: the exploits of Alexander the Great.

    You are right...PK'ing people is a notable, heroic feat, since its something not all D2 players can accomplish.

    However I don't think thats what you were getting at, it seems more like you are trying to bash pk down to the level of tppk and aimhacks, most likely because it was a feat you were unable to peform with success consistently...

    As far as I could see, there are 4 groups of PK'ers on D2. One group being the predators, those that know the game well. They know how to build, and more importantly, how to properly play their character in a variety of situations. On par with them is another tier of players who are equally knowledgeable and skilled at the game. These players simply chose not to pk for whatever reason, but can accept the fact that its part of the game, and often get a good laugh out of a pk attempt on them backfiring. If your one of these players you shouldn't a problem with pkers at all, considering most pk attempts on pubs are done by a single pker.

    You then also have the wannabe pk'ers that just suck. They have a lame cookie cutter build, have no clue how to play it, and often cut corners while building their character. These are the ones that fail pk attempts consistently and then accuse people of hacking. On par with this group are the people who are either new to the game or just horrible players. They'd get smoked by anyone halfway decent even if they were allowed to juv. Ironically these are the people that say things like PK/PVP in d2 is bad in all ways because they don't like(understand how to do well in) it.

    "In Diablo II, all public games were open to griefers and PKers at all times."

    PK is the best way to deal with griefers. Let's run a little experiment. I'll meet you on D2 and you can PK me in a pub baal run and we'll see how its dealt with. Afterwards, you can meet me on dungeons and dragons online, where there is no pk, and we can run a quest together. However, I get to grief you. I gurantee you won't be putting PK'ing and griefing on the same level after that.

    "All in all though, we still hardly know anything about what is being planned for PvP. All we have at this point is speculation, but at least we can rest easily knowing that there are more ambitious plans for PvP than nothing but a hostile button. "

    I agree with you here. It would be nice to see some more meaningful modes of pvp. However I hope blizzard is smart enough to realize the hostile button is what made D2 a cult classic to many people. After all it does have the reputation of being the best gank and run rpg ever. At the very least just have 2 servers, one for those who want to pk, and one for those who don't.
    Posted in: News & Announcements

  • 0

    May 19, 2010
    nickm83 posted a message on The best reason not to limit game size to 4
    I was hoping for 9+ per game. I don't know how many times I was in a full duel game with bloodshed and chaos all over the place and thought man, this would be even better if more people were in here, well that is if the game wasn't so laggy and could actually handle it.

    Lets face it, pvms a joke. Most 8 player games consist of 1 hammerdin/light sorc(bot) doing everything and 7 leeches either afk-ish hiding in a corner. I guess if you look at it from that perspective 4 players is an improvement though. Instead of 12.5% of the D2 population minimum being active(botting) for the rest to leech, 25% will have to be active(botting) with a 4 player limit.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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