DiabloFans

However, if you have designed or saw someone doing the math of a game once in your life, you will kno that give the player the power to choose stuff like his HP, dmg, etc.. is dangerous when you are aiming for a ACTION oriented game.

I've played plenty of games that had balanced races, which all had different max stats. If they can figure out how to balance various races in a way that they all have uses, I'm sure its not nearly as hard to balance 4? stats.

Look at a game like guild wars even. They didn't auto assign your attribute points, you could assign them into anything you wanted, and anyone you asked about how to make a particular class would have their own formula they swore by.

And the best way to people achieve that is by trading what others need for stuff you need.

Except I will no longer be able to do this with any of my good items because I corrupted them by trying them out apparently. Placing more restrictions on trading, is not a free market design.

And how gold synchs would increase grinding time ?

Whats a synch in a game...basically a way to destroy currency. If they make repairing equipment a huge synch, then you waste a ton of time grinding gold to keep your gear in top top shape. If you have to buy food for your character becuase he gets hungry, what is this...a gold synch. You have to spend time grinding gold to buy food. Syncs are all about increasing time spent grinding, why do you think pay per play mmos have so many? For someone who knows the math of game design, I'd hope you know how synchs work:P

Just accept the fact that this person also want to do that with you and take the risk like a man.

There's plenty of risk to pk, I've killed plenty of pk'ers, and been killed on plenty of pk attempts. Theres elements of alertness, risk, and a bit of thrill present when more random pk is present, that are not present in arena only systems.

I get more of a rush being in a baal game when a pk'er joins then running ubers or any other area.

There's simply no difference whether character customization is done by items or stats and items.

Put a stormshield on a character with the right amount of dex, and you get 75% block. Put a stormshield on a character with no dex and you get what like 20% block? They also tend to have fairly significant hp differences as well. I see a difference.

About economy, I've no patience to explain more about the fact slight inflation makes the system very healthy. It's just a case of some basic economics. Slight being not all-that-radical. A per cent per month, maybe. It's pretty simple fact to keep in mind and I'm sure Blizzard have consulted an economist at least briefly. All current signs show that they take their economy seriously.

1% a month inflation or deflation wouldnt really matter at all, but it doesnt happen this way in games, especially if they're getting rid of ladder. However what happens in all constantly running games with a currency, the longer you play, the more you horde, the higher the amount of gold you must have to be rich and afford top end things. When it first started if you had a few thousand fg you were the man, now people have 80,000fg, so your 2k is pennies. If you havent been consistently playing and hording the entire time your left behind.

Syns or no syncs, its totally irrelevant. Your effecting everyone equally with them, so your slowing the rate of saving, and doing nothing against hording. After the games been around a while getting wealthy in it is like trying to live today getting paid a wage from 1920.

Did you ever stop and think for a minute, that D2 is one of the most long running and popular rpgs to date, and also one of the only rpg's to date that was more barter based then currency based? If you have a successful deviation of the norm why mainstream, why not just improve on one of the differences that contributed to success?

PK'ers are a minority. The good of majority goes before the good of minority. A totally different server might be an option, but once again, it's extra work for the good of some. Work that could be spend benefiting the largest amount of players possible. Like making a very good and fair PvP system. Making a PK server will benefit maybe 20% of Diablo player base at most - and even then I'm being overly generous with the percentage. Besides, those servers have a name. It's called Diablo 2.

Meh if you ask on this site its obviously a pvm oriented community, if you go ask around jsp, which is a much larger community then this one, the majority there are far more pvp oriented and would hate to see pk be restricted. I could throw the same numbers out in reverse and neither of us could prove anything either way:P

Yeah not everyone pk's in the sense of joining a baal run, attacking 7 people, and talking trash when you pwn them, but people definately enjoy the freedom of being able to take anyone out anytime. Ever happen to be in a chaos game where someone steals drops from the runner for example, they're often unpartied and pk'd as a method to remove them. Or maybe someones just being annoying, its so nice just being able to kill them and not having to deal with them.

About griefing, my guess is that either the game creator will act a host and he can kick an idling player from the game

I hope they have a few long quests. I can't wait to have the power to boot people:) If it requires a 2 man vote to boot, so what, I'll just have a friend in game with me and we'll boot the other two.

Theres far fewer ways to get around people saying man, your a jerk, we're going to gank up and kill you so you leave, then there are ever going to be to figure out ways to get around hard coded anti-griefing measures. For every issue you fix your going to create another, and even if you came up with tools/toggles/options that elimated griefing, the anti griefing system in itself would probably just end up being more annoying and restrictive then an occasional griefer.

i'm leaning more towards the conservative side myself. Change is nice, but to much change can F*** up a perfect running engine :P, wich in my eyes is happening to D3. For one, i'm really gonna miss runewords and the variable stat-outcomes each time you make them, those are what kept me playing D2 for so long. Dont get me wrong, i'll still be buying D3, but i doubt the replayability will be as top-notch as D2 was/is, and boredom would kick in much faster with "the new and improved version".

Agreed, except for the I'l still be buying it part. If they nerf down pk I'm not wasting the 50 bucks on it

Exactly, you either went max vita, or max block, then there was glass cannon and ES sorceresses. In the end, you were just either a copy of the same max vita/max block variant of your build, or just wasting your stats.

So allocating stat points allows for more build variants, is anything that lessens the builds people use going to add variety to the game? I don't think so...

Like I said with balanced stats, stats that aren't like OMG YOU PUT 100 POINTS IN ENERGY ON SOMETHING NOT AN ES SORC YOUR AN IDIOT would be a lot more fun then...every barb being exactly the same. I'd rather see a system where you have a ton of str, you have certain disadvantages and advantages over putting those points in vit or dex, or you could make a jack of all trades and split them up more evenly. You wouldnt end up with that omg this character is screwed up feeling, but you'd probably still have that oh man, I wanna tweak this a little more feeling, which is good. If theres something that makes you want to play an experiment more, thats a good thing.

What if instead of stats the same was reached through items, you could either go for a max block shield and armor, or go all out on vitality stats.

So every situation suddenly becomes a matter of optimizing your gear rather then just having strengths and weaknesses to your build, and rather then do something to encourage more character variation, heres a change that effictively makes each character even more similar...genius.

This problem was handled by ladder resets post 1.10.

This solution was perfect.

All the variation your describing in item value is entirely based on duping and jsp. Like your shako example, do you think anyone would really get multiple ist runes if duping and jsp didnt exist before they'd just find a shako or any other unique with enough value to trade for a shako? I doubt it.

Rather then go tit for tat on everything economy, here's my perspective on it...

Fg was the main currency for most people. Every ladder, as people accumulated more and more fg, the price of a truly top end gg item increased. What it cost for a gg rare axe last ladder for example, was more fg then anyone had the first year jsp existed. This type of currency build up seems like a pretty crappy system for a noob to get into. Meanwhile your gg coa never really changed much in relative value to a gg griffons, and your godly rare axe never changed much in relation to a godly rare claw. Barter stayed more stable over time then fg did.

If you didnt jsp and hr's were your main currency, the only reason hr's were ever even common enough to be used as a currency was becuase of duping. If they were actually as rare as originally intended I doubt anyone on bnet would have a mule full of hr's...

Bottum line on the economy thing is any type of inflation/deflation is only accentuated by currencies. With no currency, a perfect shako for example is just as hard to mf day 1 as day 100, and non currency type items are all worth the same in relation to a perfect shako day 1 as day 100. The only variation you'd get with bartering is lower versions of the item would be easier to acquire via trading over time simply becuase more spawn and get muled, and it gets to a point where people with 6 mules full of random crap they dont need will give you a sweet deal if you happen to have something they need. Ladders the perfect way to reset this occasionally, but in between resets it allows for new players, people starting ladder late, and casual players to do more then get pushed further and further out of the economy by people who put more time into playing.

Instead you can MF some and sell the items you find for gold.

Fantastic, so instead of the most time efficient way to play be learning whats valuable, and only bothering to pick up items of value, I'll be wasting all my time picking up everything to sell so I can add more gold to my horde. I'd rather be rewarded for thinking and differentiating between garbage and valuable then rewarded for mindlessly grinding away selling everything I can get my hands on to make money.

You won't get banned for cursing, but it's an on/off option for the people who don't like seeing fuck this, shit that. Quite civilized an option, I'd add.

That works for me. I can accept getting in trouble for spamming some dude with @$$HOLE over and over to get around the filters, but getting in trouble because someone turns off a chat filter thats defaulted to on when you install the game, and then complains about what they see is enough make me make sure that company never gets another dime from me again.

PK is not competitive. It's when someone enjoys harassing other people who are lower level, less geared and in some cases "less skillful".

People who don't like it, will just enjoy it more when it's taken out, than the minority that like it. There's gonna still be PvP. Just not "RandomJerk666 kills the "Hell Ancients" participiants."

The thing with pk is the pk'er is a hunter, and you can only hunt if you have prey. If theres a ton of corny toggles that can easily make you not prey at will, it effectively removes my ability to be a hunter. From what I've seen of pk on softcore, its so uncommon I'm still trying to figure out why it even bothers people so much. Realistically what, maybe 1 in 20 of your runs even get attacked by a pk'er? Chances are its gonna be 7 on 1 and if you, your runner, or any of the other people in the game are decent they'll take the pk'er out. Even if you do get pk'd half the time, who cares, 1 in 40 runs being denied is worth it just for the bit of randomness it adds to the monotony of baal/chaos runs.

I really don't see what harm there would be in seperate servers. If you hate it and dont want anything to do with it, I can respect that. At the same time if you want to participate in a pk environment, you need to be vulnerable at times, the hunter needs prey. I'd hate to have the thrill of the hunt, or even the thrill of being the hunted be removed from the game because someone else doesn't care for the pk aspect thats been a staple to the series.

I'm fairly certain there will be an auto-party in Diablo 3, it's the only thing that makes sense. Perhaps it's an optional anti-grief check-box when creating a game, but it'll be there. PvP games are planned to be separate. Probably with a higher than 4 limit, as well.

So with everyone in the same party, everyone having their own loot and characters most likely not "clipping" (i.e. you can walk through other characters), how do you plan on griefing, nickm83?

I'll just join your game and sit afk in town while I'm eating dinner or something. Enjoy your 4 man game effictively being made a 3 man game. Maybe I'll leave town and just run in circles herding monsters to make the game harder for you. Or I'd be a witchdoctor and do that zombie wall crap all around you constantly just to annoy you while your moving. Of course I'd also spam chat until you squelched me. I could do the old GODLY SWORD OF AWESOMENESS FOR TRADE FOR 10 PGEMS, SEND TELLS TO *YOURACCOUNTNAMEHERE in a different channel every 3 minutes so you get spammed constantly. I suppose I could always join games doing quests I already have done, waypoint ahead of everyone, and screw you out of the quest. Just wait til it comes out, you'll get griefed, and you'll be saying damn I wish I could pk this jerk right now, nickm83 was right.

Auto-stats make no difference. Smart people had the same stats always. Stupid people were only ones suffering from last one. I'm certain you belonged to the smart group, right? Or did you feel "better-than-thou" because of knowing some newbie will always have bad stats?

Not really, most builds at least had max block and max vit variants, plus some that just went totally against the norm, like glass cannons and any type of es sorc. In my opinion more balanced stats > everyone being clones.

Binding gear is the only salvation the pseudo-free market has. It's not a real free market. Supply is not dynamic. If it was, no binding would be OK. With the planned economy Diablo is, deflation would be rampant. Deflation is bad, m'kay?

If it wasn't for dupers/botters there'd have been so ridiculously little deflation in D2 it would have been irrelevant. It would have only even been noticeable on non-ladder with anything good with less then perfect mods. Why not fix duping rather then implement some lame change thats gonna pork over casual players even more?

This crap is like the government making it illegal for anyone to sell a car other then a new car dealer. Wouldn't that suck if you couldn't trade in or sell an old car when you want to buy a different/better vehicle? Imagine all the used car dealers that would go out of business over night, or in D2 terms, all the bartering that should happen but won't. Its not adding anything at all to the economy, its just hurting it.

Bartering never suffered from inflation. Instead deflation. Gold based economy is easier to fix. Inflation is caused by more cold entering the market than leaving. Can be fixed rather easily by having them almost equal.

The only thing in D2 that mainly suffered from deflation was HR's, and that was from duping, not bartering. As far as player to player transactions go, the cost of top end gear is going to constantly rise the longer the game/ladder is running, and theres no way around it.

I'd rather be a new player starting a ladder season halfway through if deflation was the problem vs inflation being the problem. At least with deflation you have a chance to catch up to others.

The thing a gold based economy, and in game methods of removing it, is they all just amount to play time being wasted grinding gold. Every in game gold synch is just a time dump. I'd rather have fun dueling people, pk'ing people, doing some pub runs, trading, or pretty much any other activity you can think of over grinding gold. At least in D2 if your going mf'ing for an hour, the randomness keeps it exciting. Some days you get nothing worth keeping, sometimes you mf for 15 minutes and make a bundle. Grinding golds just the same lame old you can grind 1000 an hour if your quick type crap....boooooring.

Freedom of speech does not include the freedom to cuss. Besides, it's most likely on/off.

Also, there's no freedoms when playing on battle.net. To play there, you accept their rules, if you don't accept them, don't play there. Simple.

The day I pledged an oath to never buy another ncsoft game again was the same day I found out you could get banned on a game for typing a three letter variation of butt that starts with A. You can spell it in plain english, with no attempt at all to get around the chat filter, yet, some idiot with their chat filter turned off complains and you get a ban. Not to mention theres an ignore feature on top of the chat filter.

Limiting PK will make the game more enjoyable for all those who enjoy the PvM aspect.

Any idea to limit pk is going to be awful. Examples...toggle it at game creation. This effectively kills pk, since all the games youd want to join to pk unsuspecting people will toggle no pk.(baal runs, chaos runs, random quests, mf runs etc...) Or another idea, toggle pk at character creation...everyones gonna have a no pk mfer, and farm gear for their pk alts with no risk of pk. Any idea you can conjure up is going to have some lame way around it.

The only limit to pk thats not a total screwing to people who enjoy pk, is just to make seperate servers. Just my personal bias, but games that involve competitive aspects vs other people tend to have much more replay value then games that you just do the same vs cpu stuff over and over and over. How'd blizzard make mobs hard in d2, look at the ubers, they just gave them uber resists and uber damage, and a ton of hp, yet they still have limited strategy and do the same crap over and over. You do them once, you can do them a million times. Meanwhile look at vs a player. They are only capable of stats that your capable of, but the randomness factor and not knowing exactly what a characters build is until youve dueled them for a while makes dueling a player far more exciting and random then any cpu challenge.

This bit makes no sense.

Sorry I was confusing liberalism with socialism again:(

Everything you don't choose in a game conflicts with your individuality. And a game were users choose everything will surely have a horrible mechanic.

Just curious, have you ever complained about cookie cutter builds in d2?

Biding gear is mechanism to prevent inflaction and produce a healthier free market.

Promote a healthy free market by telling me some of my items are untradable...

I don't really have to argue about the superiority of a current based economy.

Uh, do you mean you don't have to argue about the superiority the current economy set up in d2?

If not, I'll just ask you to please explain how the inflation effect of fg on d2jsp for diablo 2, which is essentially an out of game gold currency, will be any different then a game with an in gold economy? Even if you add a ton of gold synchs into the game, your just increasing grind time, your not going to make it so people don't end up with piles of gold horded away.

If your expression depends uppon inflict others welfare it shall be limited. Like in any half civilized place.

The name of the game is DIABLO. I don't want to hold your hand and sing the barney song with you, I want to spit a fireball in your face and laugh at your death cry, and then get to laugh when you e-rage that I stole your gold:P Is it that awful to think some people might just like to play a bad guy on occasion while playing a game that amounts to a brief escape from reality? Maybe I spend all day at work going from account to account and kissing up to customers, and its nice to be able to do the opposite in my unwind time. I can't blast a customer with a fireball so I just have to settle for some pixels on my computer...

I'm a libertarian.

Auto stats conflict with my individuality.

Binding gear inhibits the free market.

Gold based economy is going to suffer from inflation far more then bartering.

A chat filter on a game thats hopefully 18+ would deny me of my freedom of speech.

Limiting pk is going to conflict with my freedom of expression.

I could see how this liberal philosophy could work out with a gold based economy. We're going to end up with a tax on wealthy players thats funneled to casual players and noobs. Clearly those people who want to waste 12 hours a day playing a game don't deserve to be rich on it.

Oh I didn't mean to be misleading, I do screw with people plenty just for the sake of screwing with people. My point was, your going to get screwed with regardless of whether or not pk is allowed, but wouldn't you rather have a fair way in game to deal with it rather then have to take it to complaining on forums hoping enough people complain to get Blizzard to implement changes, at which point people who want to screw with you just find other ways to screw with you?

I do have to admit, even if there are seperate servers, I'm gonna play on both. I'll be on the pk server when I feel like being a "jerk" by trying to pk some runs or jumping in on some good old fashioned, unstructured pub duels. Meanwhile when I just feel like being an annoying griefer I'll be on the non-pk server knowing nobody can do anything to stop me.

I don't care if they have a pk and a non-pk server, I'd just hate a game where I have my pk neutered, or I'm forced to play with people I can't pk, since the annoyance factor of dealing with griefers tends to increase exponentially in games where you can't do anything to prevent it within the limits of the game.

With Pk I can stop you from doing anything in my game I don't want you to do by killing you. Without it I have to stop playing the game, log into some forums, and complain endlessly until the game is patched. Pk gets my vote any day of the week.

Now you remind about how much hate goes in Diablo, there is 2 things I wish to see:

- A marketplace system for buying/selling stuff
- A bounty board where several people can put a bounty on someone but only people around the same level or less can hunt down that person. So if you hate someone level 50, you could drop a bounty on his head, and every level 55 or less can see which game he is playing, hunt him down and get the reward once he is dead. That would be "fun" in hardcore mode...

1. I always thought it'd be cool to see a more efficient in game way to barter, rather then sitting in games hoping someone joins. The easiest way to trade now is jsp, and its pretty much becuase you don't have to sit in games for hours hoping someone joins with what you want and wants what you have. It'd be awesome to be able to set up searchable have/want lists so its easier to find people you might be able to work a deal with, and a way to send trade offers to people in other games and offline to make things easier.

2. Something like this would be 83279287359 times superior to just removing pk. No matter how much you patch or tweak a game people are going to find new and creative ways to be jerks. One thing I could currently do to be a jerk is to join a baal run, not join the party, tele to throne, and steal kills from the group. With no pk allowed they cant do anything to me, I could ruin every baal run I join. At least with pk they can kill me so I don't screw them up. Having to deal with a pk'er on occasion is a lot more fun then being at the mercy of everyone who finds some lame way to be annoying.

Conservative - if the term is in the context of change relative to the status quo. Diablo II is arguably the definitive ARPG and one of the best games of all time.

Do I want a bunch of changes to the formula? No, not really. It seemed to work well.

Changes to the graphics, new story, player chars (so long as they fit in the universe - wink, wink), technology, and feature adds are great! Just don't change the core elements that made Diablo great from the start.

Agreed. The gear system, barter system(so much better then farming xxx gold and buying things, since barter actually requires some experience and knowledge), wide range of potential builds and gear set ups, many ways to be either a nice guy or a jerk, and freedom to be able to hostile anyone anytime rather then be limited to lame arena pvp are all things that made D2 fantastic that none of the less popular clones came close to emulating.

I'm looking forward to the updated graphics, faster servers that hopefully won't desynch and lag as much, hopefully a lack of hacks, new skills and classes, and a revamped socketing system that I can think of off hand, but some of the things the are really leaving a sour taste in my mouth if they come to be in the final version...

1. auto stats - D2 had max block, max vit, and a few speciality set ups like ES sorc and glass cannons. Rather then work on ways to promote more variety in stat distribution they take the lame way out...make every character identicle.
2. gold economy - In a gold based game the guy playing for 3 years is always going to be richer then the new guy, since he's just had more time to horde gold away. Everything boils down to I need to grind xxx hours to farm xxx gold. At least bartering nothing really has a set value, items all have a relative value to eachother and people are willing to give you good deals if you have something they need. I might be able to get a high rune for an um'd shako if some rich guy needs one fast, but if D2 had a gold based economy a good deal like that would never happen, he'd just buy one since a shako and an um would both have a relatively set gold value.
3. Any type of pk nerfing. Its Diablo, a world filled with evil and hatred. Why stop me from being a bad guy, especially when theres already a ton of ways for people to avoid griefing, mainly just kill the guy screwing with your group, join a different pub, a recruit friends or people in a pub to join some passworded runs.

While I embrace change on some levels, it seems to me like the simple formula to find out what made D2 better then all the wannabes would be to compare what D2 had that they didn't, and make sure to carry those traits into D3, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like this is how Blizzard is thinking:( Maybe some day we'll get Diablo 3 under a different name but this game should be called POKEdungeon or something.

So it is impossible to get block chance, and vita, and run walk and kill people without teleporting around...cause you know teleport magically gives you block chance now? Or does it magically give you life? Or maybe it magically makes run walk nonexistant? Maybe you need to learn how to build a barb?

Its impossible to make a BvA with no enigma. A BvA teleports. You can make good barbs with no enigma, but you are not making a BvA.

20 points which you will dump into...what? Nothing? You keep your level 1 ww and ill keep my smite damage/speed kicks and let's see who wins.

Considering a wwsin is one of those builds that if you leveled to 99, no matter how you built it, you'd end up thinking dam, I wish I had more skill points...its not hard at all to make good use out of those 20 points.

However with that being said...its obvious, one more build you don't understand, and one more build you underestimate.

Oh yes I am sure it is designed and coded to make sure that wolves take hits before you do. Of course it is, much like the golem is designed and coded the same exact way unless you don't namelock when you attack a necro. No way is that a glitch. Im so foolish to think that!

Agreed! Don't forget mercs are also coded this way. Also, don't forget there are ways to move minions...

Haha...you really think your foh/smiter is gonna kill a top tier assassin? Your foh will do no damage, and your smite...forget it. You won't get to pull 1 smite out without getting smashed with mb and traps and dying kid.

Yes, I'd expect to win this one 100% of the time if they're a pure trapper and relying on traps to kill me. I'd just sorb them. They can't sorb my melee, simple as that.

Imagine that, you have charge/smite to fall back on when your not a pure foh'er with a faceted scepter that does awful melee damage and has no ias, when could you possible ever use some silly little feature like that to your advantage.

Bring the best zon on east and ill smash it with no dr on the worst caster on east with just enigma.

lolz, if you even got on my screen you wouldn't be there long enough to do anything with 0 fcr/0 fhr.

My naked druid with just enigma alone will 10-0 any zon you got buddy.

This is about the time, everyone who hasnt already, realizes your trolling.

Judging by how you are talking about kickers and your foh/smite builds and how you think zons rule...maybe you are just not good?
*VladDracul anytime you wish to prove me wrong. I have no characters but a barbarian that needs to be leveled to wear gear and a druid with just enigma but that is plenty enough to prove my point that my barb will smash whatever you got with no enigma and my druid will smash whatever you got with just enigma.

Lol mighty brave of ya to keep challenging me when I already said in this thread I haven't bothered this ladder...too many people hacking in duels:P

Who knows though, maybe if I have some time this weekend I'll start from total scratch and pwn your enigma only druid with a zon, and pwn your no tele barb with whatever I feel like using:P Its kinda stupid to start now seeing as to how its probably gonna reset soon, but I'm feeling kinda tempted just to let you realize your clueless:P What realm are you on btw...

That's why I said put charges on Enigma, you can still have your summoner, just you can't freely teleport around the moor all day.

The guy that despises people running to town, giving people one more reason to run to town, try again.

If you played from release then you are aware of when lances came out and you are aware that speeder lance barbs > casters. You can very EASILY make a bva with no enigma, it's called run walk.

BvA = BvC with max block set up available

BvC = enigma barbm dex for gear only, all vit

Your uh, not a BvA with no tele and no block, try again.

With CB, fade, weapon block, traps, shadow, ow, venom, a good kicker can kill a ww sin. WW will still be useful without tele, and kicks will be alot more useful, people just don't know how to use them apparently.

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I must be bad at math. A wwsin puts 0 points into ww. A kicker puts 20 points into kick. I always thought that left a wwsin with 20 more points to put into weaponblock/venom/traps/fade. Doubt you'd ever put more then one into shadow, cb sucks for pvp, and ow is dot, ww is easier to connect with, I'd take the dot on the skill thats gonna give me an easier time to apply it anytime. Not to mention, if you happened to get someone jammed in a corner with no escape so you could kick spam, ow is near worthless at that point. Good effort, but...try again.

Druid minion stack is a glitch and a glitch you wouldn't have to worry about since there would be no teleport or very little of it, and id say Fire claw is the best feature of a SS, extremely fast attack and insane damage.

Oh, then it must be one of those intentional glitches thats been going on with tele forever, that I've never heard called a glitch until now, and that just so happens to work on anyone with a merc/minions. Not quite as much effort as the previous attempt, so put forth a little more effort and try again.

Assassin>Paladin in every aspect. Charger charges in he gets trapped and mb and taken out. Paladin desynches he gets mb'd and trapped and taken out. Foh tries something he gets mb and trapped and taken out. Barb is only class that stands a real chance vs the assassin unless a sorc can scope her out.

Lol so the guy that thinks smite/foh hybrids suck...thinks its impossible to kill an assassin with a paladin...your cute:) Btw, try again!

Zons are fastest runners only with an inv full of frw. Their evades constantly lock up on them and result in them dying cause they are frozen in an evade lock. Zons run fast, but guess what people tele faster.

I know I know, desynching while running is worthless. Spamming out 6.5k+ guided attacks or 4k+ area attacks, and having over 70% crit is worthless. Having a throwable mass poison attack is worthless. Having access to a sweet lighting melee hit and being able to throw lightning is worthless. Having dodges that sometimes get you stuck in dodge animation for a moment, but only when your in a situation where you'd have just taken a pounding without them anyhow, is worthless. You also don't have to put points into them if you dont like them...I guess zons are just worthless though, nobody should play one.

You wear one tgods or a wisp projector and your v/t = garbage. If his foh damage is even notably strong. Which when you are in his face he won't be foh and then he will be smiting trying to hit you. In which case with teleport it is damn easy to flank him and circle him and attack him as he stutters to pull off smites to try and hit you. V/t = failed build compared to a tele smiter , or a charger that backs you into a wall and smites. The FOH part plays no role vs any good character. You should be able to get good sorb and stay perfectly fit on your dueler, I make my guys to take on 7v1, 1v1 is a waste of my time so I am always ready to kill multiple elements and types.

I get it now! Every build your not good with sucks.

What build is made by enigma? Necros are still dominant, hammerdins are still dominant, ele druids can still be dominant, no build was ever made by enigma. When did you start playing Diablo, seem to be a 1.10+ player only.

If you must know, I've been playing the game since its release, and I think enigma adds a lote more then it hurts...

Necroes, sure, enigma makes bone prison not very useful, but its 1 skill, and in exchange the entire summon tree becomes a hell of a lot more fun.

Barbs, it makes bva/bvc builds possible. Theres not even any barb skills/builds that become obsolete because of enigma. Even if you make a bvb, its still gonna have its uses. Something like conc kinda blows, but thats because ww's so much more useful, not becuase of tele.

Assassins, much like barbs. Kicks always gonna blow, since ww is just more useful. The only thing that really becomes pointless is df, but I just find myself not caring df is pointless, becuase...I have tele?

Druids, minion stack thanks to tele is totally badass for druids. SS druids kinda get screwed by tele in a sense, but not nearly as hard as they get pwned by ww/smite. The coolest feature of ss is rabies, but I'm sure you can imagine what happens when you hit someone with mass poison...and it would be done as easily with or without tele.

Paladins, thanks to charge, tele actually adds a lot less to the paladin class as it does to other classes. Paladins are also widely considered by most to be the most powerful all around class in pvp, so I can't see how a piece of gear that boosts other classes more then the one thats already on the top of the food chain is a bad thing.

Zons, tend to be the fastest runners, and have the best damage mitigation. Dodge skills can work for anything, even spells, and unlock clawblock, work while your moving. They have access to using a max block shield on top of that. Any decent zon build is capable or throwing/shooting across the screen, so not being able to catch someone should never be an issue. They still have access to tele...its just, good zons often opt not to use it because hey dont need it and would rather focus on other stats then worry about fcr.

Sorc, probably the only class that actually gets hurt by enigma. But...in a gm duel sorcs are still viable even with other classes gaining tele. Being able to stack so much max res/sorb that a sorc heals you is the sorcs problem, I'd rather see sorcs problem fixed at the source of the problem, then removing enigma, which means itll just take me longer to catch you while i sorb you.

Notice either can bowazons but yet...where are they on your list?

Right next to a ghost.
not being one of the most numerous builds =/= not good
Some builds just require more knowledge and skill to play effectively, so naturally, they aren't going to be as popular.

Didn't waste my time with a v/t build cause its inferior. I may as well go pure smite. Charge/smite > V/t anyday. The Foh is only there to add a scare tactic or to get someone while they are running, it is by no means their made source of damage. Unless they are dueling a newb.

Like I just said...some builds may require more knowledge and skill to play effectively. If you can't figure out how a build that can force your opponents to need stacked light res and phys res/max block(even smite/foh hybrids can use charge ya know), or have a huge weakness you can exploit could ever be any good, I don't think I really wanna waste the effort trying to explain it to you.

I agree with Don on this one. It's just not worth the effort to load all your mules into private games over and over and over. You can join random pub games that already have people in them, its a lot more efficient then joining with alternate accounts.

I run vista on a 5 year old computer right now, so as you could imagine its not exactly the fastest thing around to switch user accounts to move mules around. I could run chaos under 5 minutes a run consistently, not being anal about killing everything, just smashing big groups, uniques, and diablo. In the time it takes me to run in pubs vs run private with my alt accounts, I can run chaos 3 times for every 2 private. Its just not worth it.

Hrm, Tearhaunches are a possibility if you're looking to boost Hammer damage as opposed to other stats, which is usually a good thing.

Only hard points in synergies apply to the skill its a synergy for. Tearhaunches won't add hammer damage. Sandstorm treks are a good choice for a unique, or some rares with fhr/frw/res can be nice.

I think this thread made me realize why people on here hate pvp:P

I'm still trying to figure out how you know what a 2/20/2 is, but don't have a 125 fcr set up...

You guys are forgetting the fourth difficulty in D2, pvp. Its the most challenging, and most random! You never quite know what to expect in pvp, but the last 1000 times I fought baal or ran an area, its been the same exact thing every time.

I'd care more about D3 having the full pvp spectrum in it then having fancy pvm feature, like random quests. I'd probably do about as many as times I ran non story line, non boss dungeons in D2, not very many. That is, unless they implemented them so you have to do them over and over to build wealth, but, then we just have wow with the daily job crap.

A full range of pvp from organized team duels to being allowed to pk random pub runs still would be my favorite difficulty feature they could ever implement in d3.