DiabloFans

Thanks all for the feedback! I also added an option to manually trigger rankings refresh (note that if the data from the blizzard api has not been updated, you might still not see the new leaderboards positions, which are shown ingame).

@Mad_Tom: It should have been the GR time, yes.

@slaugther: Solo-only leaderboard you have in mind? I like the idea, but even if doable at some point in the future, it would be full with low times, because atm nobody who plays competitively is doing it solo-only.

@Desolacer: I might add HC for future seasons, if the paragon problem stays unsolved and the xp/hour reach this of SC atm.

You wonder how the top 100 softcore solo would look without the advantage from paragon?
You have made a great GR time for your paragon level and would like to see how it compares to the others?
You are demotivated to push your maximum limits, because your best time won't rank high enough due to your low paragon?

Well, I have a surprise for you: The unofficial top 100 global softcore solo <<< no paragon >>> leaderboards. Enjoy!

I made a little test with a point based leaderboard system, which nullifies the advantage of Paragon. You can see the results here (updated an hour ago through the api):

Season 4: Barb, Monk

Era 4: Barb, Monk

The left column is top 1000 (eu, us, kr/tw, no china) sorted by points. The right column is top 1000 sorted the standard way.

You can see for example players like Njinx, Stahlbürste, vahter, Zaramos jumping a lot in the rankings, as others quite naturally falling down. Gabynator is still #1 lol.

So, this is an alternative leaderboard and I think it offers more balanced rankings. Enjoy!

PS. If there is interest, I'll discuss the points formula (it's specific for every class), as I don't expect to update or further develop this, so if others are interested and want to continue the idea, I'll make a thread for it.

@The Zeph: Here is the post by Mr. Cheng (copy pasted from reddit):

"I understand Quin's critique and totally get where he's coming from. Putting large skill bonuses means you can't cube the item and reconfigure them around as much.

Design is about tradeoffs, and we wouldn't do it if we there aren't upsides as well.

Furycrab correctly identified some of the issue here.

What we've done is sacrifice some illusion of choice for real choice. While this is a bad trade-off for some (particularly cutting edge explorers), it is a win for many others.

If we were to increase the damage of base skills and lower legendary item +%s it gets the number where it needs to be for that configuration, but also affects every other configuration. Let's use Fury of the Vanished Peak as an example. Maybe it's at a certain spot in IK builds. Yes, we could shift some numbers out of the item and into the base skill, but how does that affect Might of the Earth builds? Legacy of Nightmares builds (for which there are innumerable configurations)? Pushed far enough what if it was a huge buff to Raekor builds? Now don't get me wrong - having lots of toys to play around with and configure in different ways is GREAT. We love that. But what will inevitably happen is if any one of those builds is 10% better than the others you don't get an increase the variety, you end up with a decrease in variety due to there being a "right answer". There are innumerable ripple effects and if any one of those ripples ends up disrupting the status quo then it becomes the new standard by which every other class/build is judged.

Another downside of simply buffing base skills rather than pushing the power into legendaries is the effect it has on the level up game. How does the game play in all yellow items during the 1-70 experience - new players are entering the Diablo community every day. (and some of them post here in /r/Diablo to talk about what a great time they're having!). We can't have Wave of Light doing 3x as much damage as every other skill during that period.

The reality is that sometimes a +% on a skill is the only way to get a skill where it needs to be competitive at the upper tiers of play without disrupting the existing ecosystem. The choice for us becomes use a +% skill on an item or allow to skill to simply go completely unused for end game players.

Patch 2.4 is looking to have more viable builds than any patch to date. The team is really excited about this and we hope all of you are too."

Here is the post by Furycrab, which was referenced by Wyatt (copy pasted from reddit):

"Can we just talk about one thing though... There's choice, and then there's illusion of choice.

Take the Helm Quin talks about in his video. If you have the ability to take off that helm, then you would just itemize in a number of ways to get the damage elsewhere and you would never end up picking that helm for the "utility". That's not Blizzard taking away a choice, it's just making the choice different. There might be an illusion of choice to newer players, but once you figure out the right combination, there isn't really any choice there to begin with...

Blizzard is likely trying to introduce new skills being used, but they are likely trying to avoid builds mixing into some uber build that forces them to nerf something across all build. Making it so that if you want to make a really killer build for say... Lashing Tail Kick... Well that same build doesn't also do the craziest EP damage, or the fastest generator damage...

If they have some restrictions on what builds can equip, they have more liberty to tweak all of the different builds to be in the same ballpark of damage.

The end result can end up giving more "real choices" in terms of different builds that work, but eliminate a lot of false choices."

Here is my opinion on the topic:

Right now Quin is right, but in the long term the current situation adopted by the design team is the better one. When they introduce more items with skill damage bonus to the same skill competing with each other the players will have more choices.

@OP: Split leaderboards is a valid solution to the paragon problem. It is not my favourite one from all the possible options, but at this point ANY solution implemented by Blizzard would be heavenly manna saving a large number of their player base.

@wiwh: Nice post! I agree with your skill/time analysis and I too have proposed static dungeons before. The two main negative issues with them are: 1) Randomness is a core factor in Diablo and when removed it doesn't feel you are playing Diablo any more 2) Time played would actually give you an advantage if you could re-play the static dungeon.

So another option to eliminate 1) and 2) would be to have a fixed number of "static competitive Greater Rifts" with capped paragon in them. Imagine a stack of 1k GRs. You are given them one by one randomly (your time is tracked) and when you play all 1k you have the total sum up of your time in every one of these (if you disconnect or leave while in the dungeon you are automatically given 20 min as a time). All other competitive players have exactly the same GRs (in different order) and time sum up. Logically the leaderboard winner will be the one with the fastest total time of all 1k GRs.

What the above includes to the game is basically another end-game scenario. The ultimate skill based game of course would be a PvP mode with ladder. But since we don't have neither of these, split leaderboards will be a huge win if implemented.

Seems like lag will be fixed in 2.4: "The Server Slam a few weeks back helped develop optimizations to reduce lag, though none of them are live yet"

So this leaves botting as the #1 problematic issue atm.

With the buffing of solo play and massacre XP multiplier bots are becoming more valuable in 2.4, because even with XP gear nerfed bots will still offer great advantage to the players who use them.

Let's hope blizzard takes measures against botting ASAP!

Quote from Skelos_bg»

If total xp required for P2.5k is 204324847000000, then we'll see the first P2.5k in S4 after 2 months.

Edit: And if xp P2.5k-P5.5k scales linearly, then after 100 days we'll see P3.2k, where the average player (4h/day) will be around P1.6k. This is 8000 main stat difference. And the solo player will be... Hmm no point in calcing that, I doubt anyone will play solo.

Well, it's 2 months and a week:

http://www.diablo3.com.cn/profile/狂拽帅-5926/17832170

Just in time for BlizzCon!

Sick feature! GJ!

Great job again, man! Time machine rocks! Check its interaction with older seasons and eras.

Quote from Hldemi»

Again the problem is not in players getting advantage if they play 24/7..This is how it should be. Its the execution of this process that is problematic IMO.

Quote from Okakeri»

There are only two true ways to continue to progress in Diablo currently - Paragon Level, and Legendary Gem level.

They said in that ziggyD interview they will look into the issue, if I remember correctly. Maybe they still don't have any official solution to announce.

Quote from Bagstone»

I'm sad that the community as a whole does not recognize the issue, but even more so that Blizzard thinks it's fine.

I think you are too pessimistic about the situation. Blizzard do recognize the issue and I expect them to make changes. Most of the players are fine with paragon and item drops as they are, because the usual player's logic is: "The more, the better". Just look how many players enjoy the boosted PTR item chances. Give them gear and paragon levels as much as possible. They will be happy for a week and then blame in the forums that the game is bad. And here really comes the role of the Diablo designers. They are those people that should take the important decisions and adjust the things so that the game's atmosphere stays adequate and offers more possibilities in terms of builds and modes, rather than in terms of botting paragon. And I expect them to change things, sooner or soonTM.

@Willemh: Money is not a big problem for the most people who bot. Remember the D3 Auction House? A lot of people don't have a problem to give $250 for an ingame item. D3 + RoS costs a lot less. Plus you forget the players who never bot before and start doing it at some point. And what better point when you have endless paragon plus enormous power creep after every single D3 patch. Yeah, 2 banwaves per season won't be enough. Blizzard need to make them 3. At start, mid and end of season.

Some interesting info: Click fraud by ad bots costs $6.3 billion in 2015.