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    posted a message on [Suggestion] Optimistic idea for Paragon update.

    Thanks for all feedback, guys, and taking the time to read it. It's clear that everyone has their own ideas for what they'd like to see happen, and that's cool. This proposed idea would be far from perfect, but all I'd want to see is any system that does 2 things:

    1) give me more interesting choices, or any choices at all, which the current paragon system simply doesn't provide past para 600. All those commenting about how it would be "too complicated" - the game is and always will be only as complicated as you want it to be. The game already is quite complicated (if you delve into the deep end of min-maxing, which most people don't, and don't have to). If this alternate para system was implemented, you could simply put points wherever you wanted and it wouldn't matter - only those interested in squeezing out the most of their builds would it matter.

    2) disincentivize botting. I do not, and did not, claim that this system would solve botting, although some commenters think I did claim this. Putting some sort of soft cap on paragon WILL disincentivize botting, to a degree. But this will also need to be done in conjunction with other soft caps placed on the other infinite power progression systems.

    Quote from rebjorn»
    There's a lot more mess involved with the current implementation though.

    Hey rebjorn, thanks for your informative feedback. Yes, I do agree, I would absolutely support a leaderboard adjustment, especially if it was a more technically feasible solution and therefore more likely to occur.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Suggestion] Optimistic idea for Paragon update.
    Quote from rebjorn»

    Separate Leaderboards.

    One with a cap of p800 and gem levels capped at each player's top solo clear.

    And the other for the general population, including those with 2000 paragon levels higher.

    A solid idea, and I'd be happy if that was implemented. The only minor downside to that is that a proliferation of leaderboards may be messy.

    Quote from Thornagol»

    While I like the increase in choice, I feel like this does nothing to really address power creep and botting. If anything, I think more people would resort to botting since they could have access to more trait bonuses than before.

    The main idea is that there would be a softcap on paragon for those who want to compete, so botting to get more paragon wouldn't provide an advantage (it would provide advantages in other ways, but each of those other ways requires their own separate solutions).

    Quote from Demonmonger»

    I love a lot of these suggested changes, but above all, what I think needs to happen is that each week should gate how much paragon level can be used inside of a GR. You can continue gaining paragon levels, but lets say you are paragon 350 and week 1 only allows 100 paragon inside of a GR, that is all you can use, end of story.

    Also a decent idea. There are many good ideas like these going around, and Blizz just needs to implement one/several of them.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 22

    posted a message on [Suggestion] Optimistic idea for Paragon update.

    Optimistic idea for a Paragon update

    For a long time now players have recognised that the current paragon system not only has a few problems (the unlimited paragon grind incentivizes botting, for example), but is also pretty uninspiring (you fairly quickly reach the point where you simply max everything, and past 800 you simply add to mainstat). There have been many great ideas put forth by the community to address one or both of these issues, and here I’ve tried to collect a lot of those ideas and combine them together and present them in the form of some colourful pictures (everyone likes pictures).


    (A sort of TL; DR)

    This idea for a new paragon system has two main objectives:

    • Address the infinite paragon grind which incentivizes botting. This is done by having a ‘soft cap’ on paragon (only for those wanting to compete on leaderboards)
    • Address the tedium of the current system. This is done by providing players with actual choices and
    • different ways to customize their builds


    Don’t worry too much about the particular values suggested for each of the stats – I won’t claim that they’re perfectly balanced, although I did spend a decent amount of time math’ing through them to attempt to balance them, but I could obviously be way off the mark on many of them. If you think any of the numbers are particularly off, throw your feedback this way.

    Basic outline:

    Paragon is divided between ‘Core’ and ‘Bonus’. This simply divides your first 800 paragon levels (Core paragon) from anything above 800 (Bonus paragon).

    There are 5 Categories (Offense, Defense, Resource, Utility, Adventure).

    There are 10 Stats per category.

    Almost all Stats max out at 50 points per Stat (like the current system), with a few exceptions.

    While below paragon 800.

    Points can be spent on any stat in any category at any time (unlike the current system), up to 200 points per category (like the current system). This equates to being able to max out 16 stats across the 5 categories, and 4 out of 10 stats within a category. So, if using the maximum 200 points per category, only 4 out of 5 categories can be accessed (or, alternatively, one could spread the points across all 5 categories).

    Beyond 800 paragon.

    The restrictions of 200 points per Category disappear. Perhaps there could be brackets: Paragon 800 – 1600, the cap is increased to 400 points per category; Paragon 1600 – 2400 the cap is increased to 600, etc.

    Why the paragon 800 threshold?

    This deserves its own separate discussion, but as a basic summary: I feel the general consensus of the community is that there needs to be some ‘restrictions’ in place to curb the incentives for botting i.e. the infinite progression systems that are present in almost every aspect of this game only serve to enhance the benefit botting gives – and botting will never be got rid of (it exists in every game and always will), so one ‘solution’ (the only realistic solution) is to minimise the impact botting has, and minimise the incentives for botting.

    So, there’s nothing special about 800 in particular, and the threshold could be set anywhere, but Paragon 800 should be an ‘achievable’ paragon level to reach for most people interested in the leaderboards. Now, what we can do is have some kind of ‘Competitive’ Rift system (which would be the only Rift system tied to leaderboards – there would be no more need to tie Leaderboards to GRifts, which is really getting more and more ridiculous as can be seen by having well-documented botters holding top places on the leaderboards). In this Competitive Rift system your paragon would be capped at this 800 threshold. Outside of this Competitive Rift system (i.e. everywhere we currently play: Adventure Mode, Rifts, Grifts, etc.) players could use their uncapped paragon points. Ideally (and now I’m really digressing here) these Competitive Rifts would not be exactly like current Greater Rifts, with their heavy dependence on RNG – however, that’s definitely a topic for another thread, and I’d settle for the Competitive Rifts being effectively identical to Greater Rifts, and see it as a move in the right direction.

    (Another alternative could be simply to have Seasonal paragon cap at 800, while non-season has uncapped paragon.)

    Picture Examples

    In the following images, this player has a Paragon level of 1123, and has currently applied only 200 points of their 800 Core points into the Offense tab, maxing that tab out.They have not placed any more points in any other tabs, leaving 600 Core points to distribute. The 323 (1123 - 323 = 800) Bonus points would not be able to be used while inside a Competitive Rift.

    Offense Paragon Tab


    Attack Speed (10% @ 50 points)

    Critical Hit Chance (5% @ 50 points)

    Critical Hit Damage (50% @ 50 points)

    Elemental Damage [10% @ 50 points]

    Elite Damage [10% @ 50 points]

    Area Damage [10% @ 50 points]

    Primary Skill [15% @ 50 points]

    Increase all damage of Primary skills, as Depth Diggers and such do. There is a problem deciding on appropriate values due to additive dilution, but oh well.

    Secondary Skill [15% @ 50 points]

    Increase all damage of your Secondary skills. Same issue with Primary skills: additive dilution with new items in 2.4 increasing Secondary skills damage by up to ~100%.

    Pet Damage [10% @ 50 points]

    Increase the damage of your Pets. Currently Pet Damage is additive with Elemental damage, which once again makes finding appropriate values difficult.

    Cooldown Reduction [10% @ 50 points]

    Defense Paragon Tab


    Armor [20% @ 50 points]

    Single Resists [250 @ 10 points]

    The only stat that maxes out at 10 points instead of 50 points. The idea is that spreading out your points into all the single resists should give you roughly equivalent mitigation as the same number of points put into Armor, while also being able to specialise in particular resistances if one wishes to.

    Elite damage reduction [20% @ 40 points]

    Maxes out at 40 points. Greater damage reduction than either Armor or All Resists, but specifically for Elite damage.

    Ranged/Melee damage reduction [20% @ 50 points] Similar to Elite damage reduction in that each category provides more mitigation than straight Armor, but is specific to a damage type.

    Resource Paragon Tab


    Life% [25% @ 50 points]

    Vitality [2000 @ 50 points]

    Health Globe Bonus [40,000 @ 50 points]

    Life per Second [15,000 @ 50 points]

    Life per Hit [10,000 @ 50 points]

    Life per Kill [10,000 @ 50 points]

    Life per Resource Spent [800 @ 50 points]

    This one is a bit tricky. Only Barbs, Monks and Crusaders have LpRS, and in different quantities, so the particular value would be adjusted per these classes. For the other 3 classes, either this stat could remain (which might be an interesting option in itself), or could be replaced by Arcane per Crit, Max Discipline, and flat increase in Mana regen for Wiz, DH, and WD respectively.

    Resource Cost Reduction [20% @ 50 points]

    Primary Resource Generation [25% @ 50 points]

    Increases all sources of resource generation/regeneration by 25%.

    Max Primary Resource [50 @ 50 points]

    Amount varies from class to class, just as in the current system.

    Utility Paragon Tab


    Some of these stats are technically ‘Defensive’ or ‘Offensive’, but in the interest of keep 10 stats per category they are placed here.

    Dodge [10% @ 50 points]

    Thorns [10,000 @ 50 points]

    CC Reduction [40% @ 50 points]

    Block Chance [10% @ 50 points]

    Chance to Bleed for 5 seconds [40% @ 50 points]

    Bleed could do 350% weapon damage (the same as the weapon roll), but it would not primarily be for damage, but instead be for use with Pain Enhancer for builds that might not crit.

    Chance to Stun [10% @ 50 points]

    Chance to Freeze [10% @ 50 points]

    Chance to Charm [10% @ 50 points]

    Chance to Blind [10% @ 50 points]

    Chance to Knockup [10% @ 50 points]

    Adventure Paragon Tab


    Movement Speed [25% @ 50 points]

    Material Multiplier [100% @ 50 points]

    Doubles all white, blue, yellow and forgotten soul mats that drop.

    Gold Find [50% @ 50 points]

    Gem Enhance [15% @ 50 points]

    15% increase in the power of all your non-legendary gems, similar to how Leoric’s Crown works, but for all of your sockets. Ideally this would accompany an overhaul of the current non-legendary gems to make all of them more interesting/useful.

    Pickup Radius [7 @ 50 points]

    Health Globe Chance [100% @ 50 points]

    100% increase in base chance to drop HGs (e.g. double health globe amount) – probably shouldn’t interact with Solanium.

    Nephalem Globe Chance [100% @ 50 points]

    Doubles number of NGs produced. Ideally this would coincide with a rework of NGs, to make them actually good.

    Shrine Duration [100% @ 50 points]

    Double the duration of shrines (they currently last 2 minutes) – could multiply with Gloves of Worship as well.

    Teleport Duration [100% @ 50 points]

    Reduction in TP channeling time. Currently channeling lasts 5 seconds. 50% would reduce to 2.5 seconds, 100% would make it instant, like you were using a waypoint.

    Follower Damage [100% @ 50 points]

    Multiplicative increase in your Follower damage – ideally this would accompany a full rework of Followers that made them actually do non-negligible damage.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on That one "Legendary" that you ALWAYS salvage - Name it and explain why.

    I can only pick one??

    Some barb-specific ones:

    Madawc's Sorrow

    Arreat's Law

    These affixes are so bad they hurt.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bouldertoss + Convention of elements

    while I haven't specifically tested this, I'm almost positive that BT should be benefiting from CoE on the Physical cycle, because EQ-Toss is a highly used and tested build, so it's very likely such a bug would have been picked up by the barb community.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on We need Items and map editor.
    Quote from Kallizk»

    It seems like ppl are clearly missing the point, they seem to think an editor will give insta paragon 2k, top 1 rank and godly gear.

    What is being sugested here is an editor for custom maps and layouts, not a cheat tool so we can make our items and maps for perfect grinding.
    If we could make custom rifts or even pvp maps, and have a new option in the menu to browse customs it would be a fun mode to build and to play in, and OBVIOUSLY the whole point of those is that they wouldn't award any loot/xp.

    The game would stay the same and we would have an extra fun mode to play with.

    Alot of people seem to reject every idea even if it does not affect them or the game in a negative way, just for the sake of rejecting and being resistant to changes.

    I can't find a single negative point with this aproach, the community would create so much fun content i'm sure.

    Exactly this. The post I made about it previously tried to clearly state that there would be no loot/xp/gold etc. in the custom rifts, yet for some reason many people still didn't understand the concept, I'm not sure why. Or the alternative response sometimes, as you say, was simply "no loot? pfft, why would I bother?" It's almost seems like a lose-lose situation sometimes with this community. ^_^
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on We need Items and map editor.
    Quote from Kallizk»

    They could just introduce a map editor so we could make custom rifts or even pvp maps, and have a new option in the menu to browse customs.
    Obviously those wouldn't award any loot/xp ofc. one can only imagine what new fun ways to play ppl would come up with.

    That will always be the dream. In fact I create a topic on that a while ago.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on non GR end game idea
    Quote from TeabagMikhail»

    Trading and PVP is the only true aRPG end game. With ranked matches.

    In other words, D3 is a game in search of a point, in many ways.

    Agreed. Without trading and direct PvP (which are unlikely) the best we can hope for is a better PvE competitive environment, which Greater Rifts are currently really quite poor at. End-game can also be Community created competitions, such as this one example currently on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/3r3y0z/season_3_rdiablo_billions_of_misfortunate_builds/
    This is why something like Custom Rifts (http://www.diablofans.com/forums/diablo-iii-general-forums/diablo-iii-general-discussion/137158-idea-custom-rifts) would be amazing, where the community can design Static Rifts that force players to play different. Has potentially endless replayability.

    Quote from Kevan»

    Yes. In arpg, loot should be the endgame, not just experience/pl farming.

    Still, i believe that instead of the Best in Slot, it should be trying new builds.

    Not simply that must-have cookiecutter build with that item everybody is looking for, and obviously the rarest one with high costs, low rates or mandatory crafting.

    A bit like poe, with easy, expensive or so-and-so builds.

    Quote from Elibusce»

    i think the a good solution is to put especific not randon dungeons in every patch, something like wow style, for things like achievements and cosmetic loot

    Exactly, static Custom Rifts would allow exactly for these things you guys are suggesting!
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on [Idea] Custom Rifts

    Bit of a bump. Clearly a custom rift idea won't happen in 2.4, but hopefully in the future maybe something similar. The static rifts proposed to occur in 2.4 are at least a step in the right direction for a more healthy 'competitive' scene, and hopefully the devs are just 'testing the water' to see if people will enjoy some type of static rift.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Idea] Custom Rifts
    Quote from eulynn»

    The only problem is that players will quickly find the most efficient set-up and then that will become the only way anyone does Grifts and they will all pretty much be the same thing over and over.

    There would be no loot rewards so there's no incentive/need to find the 'most efficient' set up. The rifts would be as difficult/easy as the player wants them to be.

    Quote from Kerrin29»

    I could see Blizzard adding custom rifts that they create (automatically) and then people being able to run them, with loot and XP. It may be feasible to do static maps too then...but maybe not.

    Yes, it looks like there's a possibility that we may be getting at least some kind of Static Rift system next patch. *crosses fingers*


    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on [Idea] Custom Rifts
    Quote from magus104»

    Whats the point in doing them then? I guess the way of the industry today has really warped my thinking of games. Today theres no point in playing a game just for the sake of fun. We play for gains, gear, currency, etc. I imagine the people who play for the leader boards are an extreme minority.

    I think the billions of gamers world-wide who play 'real-life' sports and esports and many other games purely for the fun of competing with each other would have to disagree. "gear, currency, etc." are not fun in themselves; they're merely a means to having fun. As is competition.

    Quote from magus104»

    You are suggestion an indepth idea that would require a lot of coding

    This is possibly true, but also very possibly not. Almost all of the functionality suggested in this idea already has to exist in the game (there's clearly switches for turning on-and-off Pylons/Shrines/Gold/etc. as Grifts and Rifts differ in these options). All they would have to do is create a GUI for these switches. Is it a large amount of work? Well, probably, but so is adding anything to the game, which is something they clearly have to do to keep people playing.

    Quote from Gorbulan»

    What if you could put in certain items like any recipe and generate your own unique rifts.

    Quote from Raevynwillow»

    I think there should simply be more variety of rift types, objectives to win added.

    Yes, these are both interesting ideas that would be cool to see in the game.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Cord of the Sherma/Ancient Parthians

    No, Ancient Parthans only proc off Stuns. Cord of Sherma is a Blind.

    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on [Debate] Cheating in D3? What is cheating and what is not?

    I think the main point is that the Devs should stop introducing things that incentivize these types of activities. It's ridiculous.

    IMO there are some simple fixes:

    • Kill the paragon grind -> the amount of botting will dwindle (yes people will still bot, they always will, but it won't really matter as much)

    • Introduce some version of Static Rifts for those who wish to compete - completely removes the advantage of THUD (except for showing buffs better, etc.)

    • And maybe less builds that require ridiculous spam, but the use of macros is much less of a big deal.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Idea] Custom Rifts
    Quote from Bagstone»

    Regarding the "no XP/loot" idea - it is true that there needs to be some limitation or drawback in this system, otherwise everyone would just make GR80 "gg riffs" with Hamelin as RG and farm 1 trillion XP per hour. *That* would make D3 really boring, it would almost feel like Crypt runs ;-)

    Yes, I think it's critical for it working that it must have no 'rewards' beyond the intrinsic rewards of the fun in competing with friends and other members of the community, and in creating interesting rifts.

    Quote from MKIII»
    A side step of this idea would be to use the Kanai's Cube for generating a 'custom' rift. Filling it with magic and rare items only and using the Cube's power will create a rift with monsters and their abilities generated from the item types and their properties.

    That's an interesting idea, and one I'd be happy with seeing implemented as well. In fact I imagine that idea is probably more likely to happen than any Custom Rift idea, in that the Devs probably have plans for making Kanai's Cube do something related to customising rifts.

    Quote from HanSolo1884»

    Add a paragon option as well like max 800 and no paragon etc...

    Under 'Player Options', it's the first option ;)

    Paragon Points (default, unselected): Set a cap for the number of paragon points that can be allocated before
    entering the custom rift, to make paragon grinding not the be-all and end-all.
    But you're right, it is one of the most important options, IMO, and I hope at the very least they simply place a limit on Paragon Points that can be used in Greater Rifts next season.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on [Idea] Custom Rifts
    Quote from Qaletaqa»

    Awesome idea.

    Would also be cool if we could have "themed" seasons. Sorta like Tavern Brawls or some of the LoL game modes, where a season gets a special rule set that you can do crazy stuff, but it only lasts 2-4 weeks.

    Absolutely. If a custom Rift system didn't happen (and it almost certainly won't) I'd settle for just a few Blizzard-approved 'theme' Rifts each season that mix up the meta, like a no-sets Rift or something.

    Quote from Arydor»

    Not that I am against this idea, but doesn't it sort of remove the RNG from an RNG game? I mean, as you've stated, there is no loot/xp for doing these, so unless they cap paragons, aside from competing with your buddies (which you can already do on your 'friends' leaderboard) this really doesn't do anything for character advancement. All it does is give you a cookie cut rift in order to challenge your friends, in which 'highest paragon/best class' wins. Don't get me wrong, I think it's great, but that's alot of work for no gain, not exactly blizzard's style, if ya know what I mean.

    (Double Edit:) If they cap paragons, this would be an amazing addition. If they cap time played availability, this would be the worst addition.

    Ideally a system like this would completely replace GRifts for Leaderboards. Most people who are trying to push Leaderboards are sick and tired of the layer-upon-layer of RNG and the endless open-close-open-close GRift fishing.

    Quote from Bagstone»

    I love this idea, because I think it will give people something to do once they're bored of speed GRs or have given up on the leaderboards and completed all conquests, season journey, and whatever achievable goals there are for the average Joe. It reminds me of Wudijo's "rares only" GR challenge - wouldn't it be fun if you could have that as a game mode? It's very much like the Conquests, but there are so few of them per season. It would also address something that is lacking in Diablo 3 that ensures replayability for many people in other games: modding. Sure, you don't have the modding freedom of WC3/SC2 or other games, but you could think of certain exotic custom games that are so unique that it almost feels like a different game mode. Think about it - one of the most popular game genre these days (mobas) was entirely based on a player creation!

    An idea like this would be a middle way - Blizzard doesn't want to allow modding in Diablo 3, but at least players would have some freedom in creating their own environment and rules.

    What would promote this game mode is that after a fixed time (i.e., once per week) a ranking of the most popular custom games is published and for each of those the top times (i.e., a list of the top 3 custom games and the top 10 or 100 people for each of those).

    I think there's a lot of potential in this idea!

    Yes, I enjoyed Wudijo's video very much! I love the idea of an All Yellow Challenge, or a non-set challenge, but in a more organised/official environment rather than having to record your runs etc. which is often tedious/difficult and ultimately makes me not bother.
    And I love the suggestion for the publishing of the most popular at the end of a week or so! That's a great idea, and solves the issues with the potential messiness of the Leaderboards that I was thinking might happen with my suggested system. Perhaps a fortnight/month would be a decent amount of time, to let a variety of theories develop on how to best complete a particular Custom Rift. They could even have different lengths of time, some for a week, some for a month - it could be Blizzard's twist on PoE's weekly races. Hmmmm.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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