Ok, so ive read the Sin War Trilogy, but this isnt about that only. This thread is about the relative strengths of characters in Sanctuary as a whole
I'm hoping Elfen, Solomir, Astrumentis or Necronergal will come correct me here
Where do all these people stand in power?
Uldyssian (At the end of The Veiled Prophet when he "acsends" just before he sprinkles himself across Sanctuary. He starts to glow more than angels. His power is drawn mainly from the Worldstone I think, and he even wanders himself if his potential was near limitless. But he couldnt control it )
Inarius (when still connected and drawing energy from the Worldstone and Sanctuary)
Hero from Diablo 2 / Hero from Diablo 1
Prime Evils
Angiris Council
Great Evils / Lillith / Lucion
1st Generation Nephalem / Ancients (Rathma, Bul-Kathos, Esa, Vasy)
Serenthia (At the end)
Edyrem (In general, as a group)
Lower order Demons and Angels
Mage Clans
And something else which is thoroughly confusing me, the Mage clans around the time of Uldyssian are piss weak. Yet the Mage clans and magical orders of Diablo1\Diablo2 times are able to beat Prime Evils. I was wandering, is this because Uldyssian sacrificed himself and sprinkled himself over Sanctuary so the generations to come had stronger magics from which to protect themselves from both sides?
Maybe the Prime Evils are severely weakened when in mortal hosts?
Um yea, theres probably other characters I havent mentioned. Please add those to your list
I've edited my post quite a few times, adding in new sentences. Read it again just to make sure you go it all lol sorry.
I agree with your list entirely - but yeah, obviously only while on Sanctuary. It said somewhere that while Angels and Demons are on Sanctuary, their power is severely weakened. In Demonsbane, Tyreal said that he only has enough power to manifest for one night. I think by the Prime Evils possessing humans allows them to remain longer, and makes them a bit more powerful while on Sanctuary than the Angiris Council. But, the Prime Evils didn't possess anyone in The Sin War, so technically The Prime Evils should be on the same level as the Angiris Council. Depends if they are possessing a mortal or not, I suppose. Angels don't seem to believe in possessing humans. What, we aren't good enough for them? lol yeah, thats exactly right. They hate us, we are all imperfect, tainted by evil. So then if Angiric never possess mortals, but the Three do, then actually that would put them slightly more poweful than the Angiris Council while on Sanctuary. So yeah, your list is approved by me lol.
The mage clans are said to have been so incredibly powerful at the early stages of the Sin War (mastering life and death even more than the Necromancers - whoa), so they must have grown in power considerably after The Veiled Prophet. It could have had something to do with Uldyssian, or possibly the altering of the Worldstone. Or the Nephalem (that survived) could have helped them out a lot, knowing that now the Heavens and Hells are kind of in a state of war, they would realise that they needed humans to be able to defend themsevles, and who best to do it than the mages? Its either mages or edyrem, but because of the decision of the Angiris Council and the Prime Evils, all the edyrem lost their power and would take centuries to gain it back. While the mages draw from a different kind of power, one that they were already fairly skilled at.
1. Uldyssian
2. Inarius 3. Hero from Diablo 2 / Hero from Diablo 1
4. Prime Evils
5. Angiris Council
6. Great Evils / Lillith / Lucion
7. 1st Generation Nephalem / Ancients (Rathma, Bul-Kathos, Esa, Vasy)
8. Serenthia (At the end)
9. Edyrem (In general, as a group)
10. Lower order Demons and Angels
11. Mage Clans
I'd say you order it pretty solid. We cannot really contest the first two during the last stages of the book, they were easily the most powerful force on Sanctuary at that time.
The Prime Evils, individually, are probably also stronger than one Angiris Angel, but in a 3v5 match it's likely to be quite equal between them.
It also seems likely that the Lesser Evils are more powerful than the First Nehpalem such as Rathma, who did seem wary of his mother a great deal.
What I wonder though is if the Hero from D2/D1 is in the right place. At least the hero from D2 isn't exacly canon right now. Once D3 is released, there might have been some slight modifications to hthe journey we as players undertook. I'd also say the Diablo from D1 somehow was weaker. Otherwise I have a hard time imagining this as plausible. Unless the Hero is/was a new "Super Edyrem".
Quote from "Genesis" »
And something else which is thoroughly confusing me, the Mage clans around the time of Uldyssian are piss weak. Yet the Mage clans and magical orders of Diablo1\Diablo2 times are able to beat Prime Evils. I was wandering, is this because Uldyssian sacrificed himself and sprinkled himself over Sanctuary so the generations to come had stronger magics from which to protect themselves from both sides?
That could very well be it. Looking at what the Edyrem are able to accomplish, it only makes sense to assume later generations with training could get much more powerful after the removal of Inarius.
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The Worldstone originally didnt limit the Nephalem powers. The Nephalem powers were their own and uneffected
Then Inarius changed it to completely wipe them and create weak humans
Then Lillith changed it to allow Nephalem to grow again
Then Uldyssian physically altered it to make the Nephalem even more powerful (and in the process "spiritually linked" himself to it)
Say if, the Worldstone never existed, Imagine how powerful a Nephalem would be, then compare it to the powers of the Nephalem Edyrem at the end of The Veiled Prophet. Are they stronger with or without the Worldstone?
Reason being, if the Worldstone actually boosts them beyond their natural half-angel\half-demon abilities then when it was destroyed their maximum potential/power would decrease
Like Inarius for example, when his link to the Worldstone is severed, he just becomes another ArchAngel
Then Uldyssian gains a "spiritual link" to the Worldstone and becomes even more powerful than the rest of the Nephalem/Edyrem
Seems like everyones powers on Sanctuary are propped up by this Worldstone
Note - Im not sure which terminology I should use
Nephalem or Edyrem? Would first generation Ancients fit into this same category
Edit- Yet to read Demonsbane, but it makes sense that Angels and Demons powers are weakened when in Sanctuary. Their mind games and subtle emotional influences still seem to work though
Edit2- I guess the Edyrem are like mongrel Nephalem. The Ancients have more defining characterstics and powers whereas the latter generations of Nephalem, the Edyrem are more mongrelised and display alot more powers which are more varied
Yeah, we don't know enough about the Worldstone yet to know anything for sure. The Sin War revealed a fair bit about it, but it still wasn't enough to know what will happen without it.
But anyway, I think its best to call the first generation of 'humans' Nephalem, ie. Rathma, and call Uldyssian's followers Edyrem.
Worldstones a bit weird, it doesn't go into much detail about the resonances of it and the 6 sided crystalline structures
Blizzard could pretty much do anything within reason and somehow justify by making up some more info about the Worldstone. I reckon it going to have some impact on the power people hold anyway, but thats real vague
I have a theory, that a beings power is definitely tied to its realm/plane of existence. I think angels are superior in the Heavens, demons in the hells, and humans in sanctuary. I think you pay a price for being in a different realm. The only thing I stuggle with in this regard is Act 4 of D 2. For some reason I have never been able to wrap my mind around a human wacking a natural form Diablo in Hell. Just does not compute to me.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go to the Temple of Light, in the eastern ciry of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell opened before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Now run! Take the stone and run!"
It was because of Astrumentis's old location/signature...
The one which said Elfen, Solomir, Astrumentis and Necronergal are all in some library somewhere studying Sanctuary
Why do you have to deliberately take offense so fast?
hhahha, lollll. I'm surprised at how much effect that had. Its like I hypnotised you to believe that we were the only ones lol. Sorry, I feel like its my fault now. It was just me and Solomir, but then Necronergal and Elfen said that they should be there too, so I added them.
thnx for including me in correcting you. but really i am more of a novice or apprentice too elfen, solomir, and atrumentis. but if you want my opinion i would say not enough information. i think we would need to learn more were the angels draw there powers and more info on the worldstone to know which is more powerful.
1. Uldyssian
2. Inarius 3. Hero from Diablo 2 / Hero from Diablo 1
4. Prime Evils
5. Angiris Council
6. Great Evils / Lillith / Lucion
7. 1st Generation Nephalem / Ancients (Rathma, Bul-Kathos, Esa, Vasy)
8. Serenthia (At the end)
9. Edyrem (In general, as a group)
10. Lower order Demons and Angels
11. Mage Clans
i would put the hero from diablo 2 ahead of Inarius. Even with the world stone. But without it he is weaker than Tyrael according to the books. and look how Tyrael was beaten by baal and diablo. Our characters could kill them without breaking a swet
Num3n, that is true. Except Genesis meant Inarius with the Worldstone, when he is pretty much unstoppable. Only Uldyssian managed to beat him by forming a very special connection with the worldstone, one that our characters have not managed to imitate. .
When I say Diablo 1\2 Hero I mean a hero from Single Player, not godly gfg ones from Battle.net
Battle.nets likes a seperate realm to itself where everyones 10 times stronger than Uldyssian
On Battle.net people solo uber tristram, so I dont really think b.net characters should come onto the list
It was because of Astrumentis's old location/signature...
The one which said Elfen, Solomir, Astrumentis and Necronergal are all in some library somewhere studying Sanctuary
Why do you have to deliberately take offense so fast?
Even a retard would know that was a completely unserious post.
Don't judge character powers by what they are in the game though. I mean, come on, as if Andariel would be weaker than a Yeti.
Izual would probably be around the same power as Duriel, because Izual was Tyrael's first lieutenant, and since Tyrael is on the Angiris Council, and since the Council is kind of on parr with the Prime Evils, Izual seems to be equivalent of a Lesser Evil. Or maybe he is equivalent to someone like Astrogah or Gulag? We don't really know how angel ranks go.
Don't judge character powers by what they are in the game though. I mean, come on, as if Andariel would be weaker than a Yeti.
That is true. Heck, otherwise Nihlathak would be more powerful than Mephisto
Quote from "Atrumentis" »
Izual would probably be around the same power as Duriel, because Izual was Tyrael's first lieutenant, and since Tyrael is on the Angiris Council, and since the Council is kind of on parr with the Prime Evils, Izual seems to be equivalent of a Lesser Evil. Or maybe he is equivalent to someone like Astrogah or Gulag? We don't really know how angel ranks go.
Most likely, although we don't really know how demon ranks go besides Greater Evil/Lesser Evils/The rest of the lot. Or perhaps that is revealed more in one of the other books?
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Ok, so ive read the Sin War Trilogy, but this isnt about that only. This thread is about the relative strengths of characters in Sanctuary as a whole
I'm hoping Elfen, Solomir, Astrumentis or Necronergal will come correct me here
Where do all these people stand in power?
Uldyssian (At the end of The Veiled Prophet when he "acsends" just before he sprinkles himself across Sanctuary. He starts to glow more than angels. His power is drawn mainly from the Worldstone I think, and he even wanders himself if his potential was near limitless. But he couldnt control it )
Inarius (when still connected and drawing energy from the Worldstone and Sanctuary)
Hero from Diablo 2 / Hero from Diablo 1
Prime Evils
Angiris Council
Great Evils / Lillith / Lucion
1st Generation Nephalem / Ancients (Rathma, Bul-Kathos, Esa, Vasy)
Serenthia (At the end)
Edyrem (In general, as a group)
Lower order Demons and Angels
Mage Clans
And something else which is thoroughly confusing me, the Mage clans around the time of Uldyssian are piss weak. Yet the Mage clans and magical orders of Diablo1\Diablo2 times are able to beat Prime Evils. I was wandering, is this because Uldyssian sacrificed himself and sprinkled himself over Sanctuary so the generations to come had stronger magics from which to protect themselves from both sides?
Maybe the Prime Evils are severely weakened when in mortal hosts?
Um yea, theres probably other characters I havent mentioned. Please add those to your list
I agree with your list entirely - but yeah, obviously only while on Sanctuary. It said somewhere that while Angels and Demons are on Sanctuary, their power is severely weakened. In Demonsbane, Tyreal said that he only has enough power to manifest for one night. I think by the Prime Evils possessing humans allows them to remain longer, and makes them a bit more powerful while on Sanctuary than the Angiris Council. But, the Prime Evils didn't possess anyone in The Sin War, so technically The Prime Evils should be on the same level as the Angiris Council. Depends if they are possessing a mortal or not, I suppose. Angels don't seem to believe in possessing humans. What, we aren't good enough for them? lol yeah, thats exactly right. They hate us, we are all imperfect, tainted by evil. So then if Angiric never possess mortals, but the Three do, then actually that would put them slightly more poweful than the Angiris Council while on Sanctuary. So yeah, your list is approved by me lol.
The mage clans are said to have been so incredibly powerful at the early stages of the Sin War (mastering life and death even more than the Necromancers - whoa), so they must have grown in power considerably after The Veiled Prophet. It could have had something to do with Uldyssian, or possibly the altering of the Worldstone. Or the Nephalem (that survived) could have helped them out a lot, knowing that now the Heavens and Hells are kind of in a state of war, they would realise that they needed humans to be able to defend themsevles, and who best to do it than the mages? Its either mages or edyrem, but because of the decision of the Angiris Council and the Prime Evils, all the edyrem lost their power and would take centuries to gain it back. While the mages draw from a different kind of power, one that they were already fairly skilled at.
2. Inarius
3. Hero from Diablo 2 / Hero from Diablo 1
4. Prime Evils
5. Angiris Council
6. Great Evils / Lillith / Lucion
7. 1st Generation Nephalem / Ancients (Rathma, Bul-Kathos, Esa, Vasy)
8. Serenthia (At the end)
9. Edyrem (In general, as a group)
10. Lower order Demons and Angels
11. Mage Clans
I'd say you order it pretty solid. We cannot really contest the first two during the last stages of the book, they were easily the most powerful force on Sanctuary at that time.
The Prime Evils, individually, are probably also stronger than one Angiris Angel, but in a 3v5 match it's likely to be quite equal between them.
It also seems likely that the Lesser Evils are more powerful than the First Nehpalem such as Rathma, who did seem wary of his mother a great deal.
What I wonder though is if the Hero from D2/D1 is in the right place. At least the hero from D2 isn't exacly canon right now. Once D3 is released, there might have been some slight modifications to hthe journey we as players undertook. I'd also say the Diablo from D1 somehow was weaker. Otherwise I have a hard time imagining this as plausible. Unless the Hero is/was a new "Super Edyrem".
That could very well be it. Looking at what the Edyrem are able to accomplish, it only makes sense to assume later generations with training could get much more powerful after the removal of Inarius.
Then Inarius changed it to completely wipe them and create weak humans
Then Lillith changed it to allow Nephalem to grow again
Then Uldyssian physically altered it to make the Nephalem even more powerful (and in the process "spiritually linked" himself to it)
Say if, the Worldstone never existed, Imagine how powerful a Nephalem would be, then compare it to the powers of the Nephalem Edyrem at the end of The Veiled Prophet. Are they stronger with or without the Worldstone?
Reason being, if the Worldstone actually boosts them beyond their natural half-angel\half-demon abilities then when it was destroyed their maximum potential/power would decrease
Like Inarius for example, when his link to the Worldstone is severed, he just becomes another ArchAngel
Then Uldyssian gains a "spiritual link" to the Worldstone and becomes even more powerful than the rest of the Nephalem/Edyrem
Seems like everyones powers on Sanctuary are propped up by this Worldstone
Note - Im not sure which terminology I should use
Nephalem or Edyrem? Would first generation Ancients fit into this same category
Edit- Yet to read Demonsbane, but it makes sense that Angels and Demons powers are weakened when in Sanctuary. Their mind games and subtle emotional influences still seem to work though
Edit2- I guess the Edyrem are like mongrel Nephalem. The Ancients have more defining characterstics and powers whereas the latter generations of Nephalem, the Edyrem are more mongrelised and display alot more powers which are more varied
But anyway, I think its best to call the first generation of 'humans' Nephalem, ie. Rathma, and call Uldyssian's followers Edyrem.
Blizzard could pretty much do anything within reason and somehow justify by making up some more info about the Worldstone. I reckon it going to have some impact on the power people hold anyway, but thats real vague
Except, I think the worldstone can dampen powers, but it can also be used to amplify powers. Depends how its used.
Though I don't think everyone on sanctuary will become really powerful suddenly, it will take time.
Wtf, why am I not in this list? And also, Elfen has not read the books. Just for this, I'm not helping you on your list.
The one which said Elfen, Solomir, Astrumentis and Necronergal are all in some library somewhere studying Sanctuary
Why do you have to deliberately take offense so fast?
i would put the hero from diablo 2 ahead of Inarius. Even with the world stone. But without it he is weaker than Tyrael according to the books. and look how Tyrael was beaten by baal and diablo. Our characters could kill them without breaking a swet
Battle.nets likes a seperate realm to itself where everyones 10 times stronger than Uldyssian
On Battle.net people solo uber tristram, so I dont really think b.net characters should come onto the list
Even a retard would know that was a completely unserious post.
Are you going to contribute to the thread now? I assume you've read the Sin War Trilogy
Lucion (Arrogant and unaware of Uldyssians power)
Lillith (I think she is weaker but far more cunning and evasive)
Duriel
Andariel
Yea, I'm not really too sure about that one
The demonic Izual of Act4 would fit somewhere in there above Duriel at least
Izual would probably be around the same power as Duriel, because Izual was Tyrael's first lieutenant, and since Tyrael is on the Angiris Council, and since the Council is kind of on parr with the Prime Evils, Izual seems to be equivalent of a Lesser Evil. Or maybe he is equivalent to someone like Astrogah or Gulag? We don't really know how angel ranks go.
Most likely, although we don't really know how demon ranks go besides Greater Evil/Lesser Evils/The rest of the lot. Or perhaps that is revealed more in one of the other books?