@indimix
There was. It looked like Tempest Rush except you were immobile. I think they cut it for Tempest Rush
I thought it looked more like Inner Sanctuary, with an aura around the character and channeling.
Maybe they thought that a "defensive" channeling skill wasn't very interesting. It would be awesome to have an Inner Sanctuary or a Tempest Rush rune that did that though.
I hate the fact that D2 had way more interesting LOOKING and effective skills than D3.
Charged Lightning Bolt Sorc , Meteor Sorc , Frozen Orb , Blizzard , Hydra , Fireball , Firewall , Chain lightning or just pure lightning , Light Nova. That's just 1 Class , in 1 class in d2 there were more builds than probably all d3 classes combined , currently some builds don't have something unique in them they just function for example Monks using sweeping wind with 2 spirit generators and aura , whats special about that ? it is just a functional fast killing build.
Bring back the old cool ideas of D2 please , I miss Lightning Fury Amazons tearing doing hordes of enemies with just 1 Bolt and thrown weapons ah God I miss titan's throwing javelin , or how about when you play Meteor Sorc and teleport between 50 mob , frost nova and Meteor , that Meteor had an impact when it landed unlike the wizard's meteor that barely takes 20% of the mobs HP.
Back to the subject and out of the dream world , I would love to see Lashing Tail Kick kill mobs , I don't want to have to gimp myself with 3 items (Mara + Soj + Flying Dragon) so that my Lashing Tail Kick becomes affordable and on top of that I have to get Spirit Stone with Spirit Regen and that Soj must be high spirit regen and my passives also spirit regen and even after all that , the skill is still not effective enough to sacrifice all that for.
How about if my Lashing Tail Kick could act like HoTA , increased crit chance and crit damage the more spirit I have , maybe then I will actually use Exalted Soul and consider using Lashing Tail Kick as an ultimate finishing move, if I would spend all my spirit bar and dish out like 15m+ crit , I am all for that.
And more builds? You wanna tell me a Chain Lightning build or Lightning Bolt one were more powerful than the more popular builds? Or that Firewall was even useable? People barely even talked about "farming efficiency" back then, but some of the skills you described as "viable for builds" were outright horrible, limited the way you could move and were just spamming the same "one" skill (instead of 3-4, and instead of having variants like which armor to use for Archon).
So, thank no. Keep D2's archaic ideas in the past. And improve on the already much improved D3 skills/runes.
And more builds? You wanna tell me a Chain Lightning build or Lightning Bolt one were more powerful than the more popular builds? Or that Firewall was even useable? People barely even talked about "farming efficiency" back then, but some of the skills you described as "viable for builds" were outright horrible, limited the way you could move and were just spamming the same "one" skill (instead of 3-4, and instead of having variants like which armor to use for Archon).
So, thank no. Keep D2's archaic ideas in the past. And improve on the already much improved D3 skills/runes.
D2 did have more builds. And I mean actual builds. Some where for pvm and some where for pvp. But, the best way to improve the game is to add a skill tree and make builds and leveling mean something again. I copied and posted this form a player in D3 forums, And I agree with this.
TheChainRule 9 hours ago
I don't know why the developers think the skill tree system in d2 was so cumbersome. The current skill system is too simple and it's too easy for players to try out every build imaginable at whim. This makes every character we make feel like less of an accomplishment (i.e. the feeling of "hey, I put a lot of effort into making this character what it is"). Ultimately, what this dumbed-down skill system does is essentially make each character less meaningful and thus less likely to be continually played in the long run.
Yes, simplifying the skill system makes experimentation easier, but there's a balance to be struck here. You can't solve the problem of one extreme by going to the exact opposite extreme. I think the best way to achieve that balance is to have a mix between the current rune system and the skill tree system from D2. I agree that some prerequisite skills in D2 seem arbitrary, but maybe remove those prereqs and just put a limit on the number of skill points you can spend. That should make skill selection very interesting and force us to invest more time into our characters.
So please don't refer to the old skill system as "analysis paralysis." In reality, the more thought and effort we can put into our characters, the more that our characters will mean to us. Remember that this is an RPG, and a central tenet of RPGs is that it revolves around character investment, and skill trees were a huge part of that investment.
This game isn't Candy Crush... I don't understand why there's such a huge push to simplify every aspect of the game. Maybe this "simplify everything" approach is part of a bigger effort to make D3 appeal to a larger gamer demographic, but I think the Candy Crush gamers are pretty happy where they are and I don't think they'll ever convert to D3. On the other hand, you stand the chance of losing a lot of avid RPG gamers if you keep simplifying things. Just remember that time put into thinking about a game isn't always a bad thing.
I don't get why introducing a system with up to 3 billion different combinations is called "simplified", whereas a fixed, dependency-heavy, and (for ~8 years) non-respec-skilltree is seen as the epitome of complexity.
In D2, you chose Blizzard as your main skill and... due to dependencies and synergies all other skills were kind of "auto-select" (unless you liked to shoot yourself in the foot). In D3, choosing Blizzard means that for the remaining 5 skills and 2-3 passives (Cold Blooded is probably a must-have) you can choose everything. The entire text by "TheChainRule" cited by VTurth is well-written but just smells like some pseudo-elitist player hating that everyone can "experiment" now (and not just the people who were able to push D2 chars to 80 in a single day to explore various endgame builds).
This is not about simplicity, this is about freedom of choice.
Anyways, we've moved quite far away from topic. @Zero: maybe you can split the few posts out and create a new discussion thread "was the D2 skilltree any good" or so, as it seems to be a topic that has aroused interest in various threads recently.
D2 had a ton of builds. Most of them were crappy and extremely inneficient compared to the best ones.
And I'm not even gonna go there. People seem to forget how some builds (fire-focused Sorcs, non-Berserker Barbs) would literally (!!!) get into Hell and not be able to kill immune mobs. Yeah, they were quite viable, weren't they?
You can most certainly use a crapload of different builds in D3.
I can link you to at least 4-5 different Melee DH builds that can work on Inferno and higher MPs with the proper gear. People just don't use them because a lot of them care only about efficiency in farming, and ease of use (aka "I don't wanna use something outside of my comfort zone").
In D2, you chose Blizzard as your main skill and... due to dependencies and synergies all other skills were kind of "auto-select" (unless you liked to shoot yourself in the foot). In D3, choosing Blizzard means that for the remaining 5 skills and 2-3 passives (Cold Blooded is probably a must-have) you can choose everything. The entire text by "TheChainRule" cited by VTurth is well-written but just smells like some pseudo-elitist player hating that everyone can "experiment" now (and not just the people who were able to push D2 chars to 80 in a single day to explore various endgame builds).
That's because it's exactly what it is. Some people are just mad that others don't have to play 200 hours just to figure out which of the 10 possible builds (locked due to skill dependency) actually work.
Anyways, we've moved quite far away from topic. @Zero: maybe you can split the few posts out and create a new discussion thread "was the D2 skilltree any good" or so, as it seems to be a topic that has aroused interest in various threads recently.
I can't really select 5-10 posts and split them into a different thread. Let's just try to get back on topic with this one - although I think the main topic is less interesting to people than polemic matters like D2 vs D3 (they get a lot less replies)
Yeah, stahp the trolling people, and get back on topic.
Going back to the giant toad, it's simple, do any of these options:
1- Make it able to eat elites, with maybe a higher CD.
2- Make it able to eat several white mobs simultaneously.
3- Reduce the CD and make it spammable with a limit of.. 5 or something.
Right now, I think it's the worst skill rune, even worst than the non runed option.
I don't get why introducing a system with up to 3 billion different combinations is called "simplified", whereas a fixed, dependency-heavy, and (for ~8 years) non-respec-skilltree is seen as the epitome of complexity.
Because that's what made Diablo Diablo.... Its not about picking skills its about building skills. D3 has no builds, we have basic options tied to bad itemization.
That's because it's exactly what it is. Some people are just mad that others don't have to play 200 hours just to figure out which of the 10 possible builds (locked due to skill dependency) actually work.
That's not what that is. Its written by a an upset player who wishes this game to be more then just a skills swap item buy game.
Some people are not mad... ALOT of people are mad. Mad at the items, lack of skill builds and lack of pvp.
I don't get this 'you have to play 200 hours' thing. My god, is that bad to want a game that requires time to play and master. Instead in D3 we get a game where you can try out every build possible in one night.
We need a way to upgrade all skills in one way or another. Because this waiting for blizzard to do anything is and everything is wrong and too long.
Why skilltrees ? Isnt amazing the fact you can pick ANY SKILL you want ? (ok , some of them are rly bad and dosnt worth the slot)
I played ragnarok for 6 years and is fucking retarded that half of my skill points are wasted on shitty skills
Skill trees belong in diablo. If you want to improve the idiot proof skill system in D3 we need skill trees back.
[...]
Because that's what made Diablo Diablo.... Its not about picking skills its about building skills. D3 has no builds, we have basic options tied to bad itemization.
Except for 2 out of 3 Diablo games didn't have any skill trees.
I could only imagine the minority of people who hate skill trees rage if they implemented the skill trees.
STOP THIS! You have no clue about what the minority or majority wants. I thought we were done on this topic. Just stop assuming that your opinion is backed up by "the majority".
I've loved finding books in D1.. was fucking amazing.
Also saving gold to buy them from Adria, it was epic too. Having a real gold sink where you know what you are going to get when you invest money.. and not this gambler wannabe blacksmith...
STOP THIS! You have no clue about what the minority or majority wants. I thought we were done on this topic. Just stop assuming that your opinion is backed up by "the majority".
..Stop what? Telling it how it is? Really?
So you're telling me the majority of Diablo players wanted a basic skill swap system tied to weapons instead of a way to build skills and make them more powerful?
Ya, il believe that when I see it. Cause from what I've seen since launch its exactly what I said.
So you're telling me the majority of Diablo players wanted a basic skill swap system tied to weapons instead of a way to build skills and make them more powerful?
No, I'm telling you that we don't know what "the majority" wants! You can say a thousand times what you like or don't like, but don't say things like "the majority wants skill trees".
You're not "telling how it is", but what you're constantly doing is to pose your opinion as that of the majority. Will you ever learn to recognize the difference? For the past few weeks I thought you got it, but since the beginning of this week you're falling back into old posting habits.
Yup, last chance to get this back on topic. Otherwise I'll have to close it
I tend to give some freedom for people to discuss things they really wanna talk about when it's related (even remotely) to the thread, but things are getting way off-topic for too long.
Way of the thousand fists need some love too! Many monkskills were alot cooler and complex before the launch, bring back the tempest rush reflect missiles skill!
It's only a hundred fists
But yes, that's one skill that could seriously use a damage buff imo. Could be the most offense-focused dmg dealing Spirit Generator.
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And I agree with Toad of Hugeness. Why can't it be Pacman Toad instead where it continuously eats everything.
There was. It looked like Tempest Rush except you were immobile. I think they cut it for Tempest Rush
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Wise ElderMaybe they thought that a "defensive" channeling skill wasn't very interesting. It would be awesome to have an Inner Sanctuary or a Tempest Rush rune that did that though.
Charged Lightning Bolt Sorc , Meteor Sorc , Frozen Orb , Blizzard , Hydra , Fireball , Firewall , Chain lightning or just pure lightning , Light Nova. That's just 1 Class , in 1 class in d2 there were more builds than probably all d3 classes combined , currently some builds don't have something unique in them they just function for example Monks using sweeping wind with 2 spirit generators and aura , whats special about that ? it is just a functional fast killing build.
Bring back the old cool ideas of D2 please , I miss Lightning Fury Amazons tearing doing hordes of enemies with just 1 Bolt and thrown weapons ah God I miss titan's throwing javelin , or how about when you play Meteor Sorc and teleport between 50 mob , frost nova and Meteor , that Meteor had an impact when it landed unlike the wizard's meteor that barely takes 20% of the mobs HP.
Back to the subject and out of the dream world , I would love to see Lashing Tail Kick kill mobs , I don't want to have to gimp myself with 3 items (Mara + Soj + Flying Dragon) so that my Lashing Tail Kick becomes affordable and on top of that I have to get Spirit Stone with Spirit Regen and that Soj must be high spirit regen and my passives also spirit regen and even after all that , the skill is still not effective enough to sacrifice all that for.
How about if my Lashing Tail Kick could act like HoTA , increased crit chance and crit damage the more spirit I have , maybe then I will actually use Exalted Soul and consider using Lashing Tail Kick as an ultimate finishing move, if I would spend all my spirit bar and dish out like 15m+ crit , I am all for that.
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Wise ElderAnd more builds? You wanna tell me a Chain Lightning build or Lightning Bolt one were more powerful than the more popular builds? Or that Firewall was even useable? People barely even talked about "farming efficiency" back then, but some of the skills you described as "viable for builds" were outright horrible, limited the way you could move and were just spamming the same "one" skill (instead of 3-4, and instead of having variants like which armor to use for Archon).
So, thank no. Keep D2's archaic ideas in the past. And improve on the already much improved D3 skills/runes.
D2 did have more builds. And I mean actual builds. Some where for pvm and some where for pvp. But, the best way to improve the game is to add a skill tree and make builds and leveling mean something again. I copied and posted this form a player in D3 forums, And I agree with this.
TheChainRule 9 hours ago
I don't know why the developers think the skill tree system in d2 was so cumbersome. The current skill system is too simple and it's too easy for players to try out every build imaginable at whim. This makes every character we make feel like less of an accomplishment (i.e. the feeling of "hey, I put a lot of effort into making this character what it is"). Ultimately, what this dumbed-down skill system does is essentially make each character less meaningful and thus less likely to be continually played in the long run.
Yes, simplifying the skill system makes experimentation easier, but there's a balance to be struck here. You can't solve the problem of one extreme by going to the exact opposite extreme. I think the best way to achieve that balance is to have a mix between the current rune system and the skill tree system from D2. I agree that some prerequisite skills in D2 seem arbitrary, but maybe remove those prereqs and just put a limit on the number of skill points you can spend. That should make skill selection very interesting and force us to invest more time into our characters.
So please don't refer to the old skill system as "analysis paralysis." In reality, the more thought and effort we can put into our characters, the more that our characters will mean to us. Remember that this is an RPG, and a central tenet of RPGs is that it revolves around character investment, and skill trees were a huge part of that investment.
This game isn't Candy Crush... I don't understand why there's such a huge push to simplify every aspect of the game. Maybe this "simplify everything" approach is part of a bigger effort to make D3 appeal to a larger gamer demographic, but I think the Candy Crush gamers are pretty happy where they are and I don't think they'll ever convert to D3. On the other hand, you stand the chance of losing a lot of avid RPG gamers if you keep simplifying things. Just remember that time put into thinking about a game isn't always a bad thing.
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ModeratorIn D2, you chose Blizzard as your main skill and... due to dependencies and synergies all other skills were kind of "auto-select" (unless you liked to shoot yourself in the foot). In D3, choosing Blizzard means that for the remaining 5 skills and 2-3 passives (Cold Blooded is probably a must-have) you can choose everything. The entire text by "TheChainRule" cited by VTurth is well-written but just smells like some pseudo-elitist player hating that everyone can "experiment" now (and not just the people who were able to push D2 chars to 80 in a single day to explore various endgame builds).
This is not about simplicity, this is about freedom of choice.
Anyways, we've moved quite far away from topic. @Zero: maybe you can split the few posts out and create a new discussion thread "was the D2 skilltree any good" or so, as it seems to be a topic that has aroused interest in various threads recently.
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Wise ElderAnd I'm not even gonna go there. People seem to forget how some builds (fire-focused Sorcs, non-Berserker Barbs) would literally (!!!) get into Hell and not be able to kill immune mobs. Yeah, they were quite viable, weren't they?
You can most certainly use a crapload of different builds in D3.
I can link you to at least 4-5 different Melee DH builds that can work on Inferno and higher MPs with the proper gear. People just don't use them because a lot of them care only about efficiency in farming, and ease of use (aka "I don't wanna use something outside of my comfort zone").
That's because it's exactly what it is. Some people are just mad that others don't have to play 200 hours just to figure out which of the 10 possible builds (locked due to skill dependency) actually work.
I can't really select 5-10 posts and split them into a different thread. Let's just try to get back on topic with this one - although I think the main topic is less interesting to people than polemic matters like D2 vs D3
Going back to the giant toad, it's simple, do any of these options:
1- Make it able to eat elites, with maybe a higher CD.
2- Make it able to eat several white mobs simultaneously.
3- Reduce the CD and make it spammable with a limit of.. 5 or something.
Right now, I think it's the worst skill rune, even worst than the non runed option.
Skill trees belong in diablo. If you want to improve the idiot proof skill system in D3 we need skill trees back.
I could only imagine the minority of people who hate skill trees rage if they implemented the skill trees.
Because that's what made Diablo Diablo.... Its not about picking skills its about building skills. D3 has no builds, we have basic options tied to bad itemization.
That's not what that is. Its written by a an upset player who wishes this game to be more then just a skills swap item buy game.
Some people are not mad... ALOT of people are mad. Mad at the items, lack of skill builds and lack of pvp.
I don't get this 'you have to play 200 hours' thing. My god, is that bad to want a game that requires time to play and master. Instead in D3 we get a game where you can try out every build possible in one night.
We need a way to upgrade all skills in one way or another. Because this waiting for blizzard to do anything is and everything is wrong and too long.
I played ragnarok for 6 years and is fucking retarded that half of my skill points are wasted on shitty skills
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ModeratorExcept for 2 out of 3 Diablo games didn't have any skill trees.
STOP THIS! You have no clue about what the minority or majority wants. I thought we were done on this topic. Just stop assuming that your opinion is backed up by "the majority".
Also saving gold to buy them from Adria, it was epic too. Having a real gold sink where you know what you are going to get when you invest money.. and not this gambler wannabe blacksmith...
..Stop what? Telling it how it is? Really?
So you're telling me the majority of Diablo players wanted a basic skill swap system tied to weapons instead of a way to build skills and make them more powerful?
Ya, il believe that when I see it. Cause from what I've seen since launch its exactly what I said.
Amazing? Building characters based off skills and making them unique is what made building actually building.
Imagine being able to upgrade skills in D3?
It seems D3 wants to punish people more for remove gems from items then swapping skills. Its backwards.
Its not amazing, its simple, boring and pretty much removes any point of building anything with thought.
Sorry. don't want to turn this into a skill trees thread but serious. We need a way to improve skills manually and make builds mean something.
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ModeratorNo, I'm telling you that we don't know what "the majority" wants! You can say a thousand times what you like or don't like, but don't say things like "the majority wants skill trees".
You're not "telling how it is", but what you're constantly doing is to pose your opinion as that of the majority. Will you ever learn to recognize the difference? For the past few weeks I thought you got it, but since the beginning of this week you're falling back into old posting habits.
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Wise ElderI tend to give some freedom for people to discuss things they really wanna talk about when it's related (even remotely) to the thread, but things are getting way off-topic for too long.
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Wise ElderBut yes, that's one skill that could seriously use a damage buff imo. Could be the most offense-focused dmg dealing Spirit Generator.