On topic: What looks like a good example of End-Game content to me is the pandemonium event. It at least made you run 3 additional dungeons you wouldn't be visiting otherwise... You get the idea.
Yep, that's true. That's pretty much the only thing in D2 that could classify as end-game, but that's far from enough, and is still not elaborate enough - it comes down to ultimate repetition. It also doesn't work in single player.
But yes, that's the kind of thing D3 should have in greater amounts.
You don't know what you are talking about.... The game only truly begins once you hit the level cap (Level 70). Endless instance runs aren't endgame - raids are. From the sounds of it, you never experienced any of it.
A raid IS an instance.
Maybe learn some standard mmorpg terms, before discussing them
Quote from "Dimebog" »
It's funny when people conclude that WoW is soloable because they finished quests alone.... Who fucking cares? WoW is not about questing and leveling - the game is about end-game content: raids. Can you raid Black Temple solo? It's the game of ultimate variety, and end-game progress has a steep curve and never gets boring. There's no farming and grinding because there's so many content to do, and one raid boss can be killed once a week.
In contrast to that, D2 had TWO bosses everyone killed 1961891354 a day, and the day after that, and the day after that, and the day after that..... It's a fucking grinding game that requires no tactic and BRAIN. If someone deliberately wanted to make a masochistically repetitive game, they couldn't beat D2 at it. If it had 1% of end-game content WoW has, it would be fucking golden and you should be fucking grateful.
/end of rant
Mother, BT, sunwell; ya, I played them. They were boring the first play through, and more so each repetition.
The questing was pointless, the leveling was pointless, and the instances are pointless. The game is pointless, sorry to tell you.
Maybe learn some standard mmorpg terms, before discussing them
A raid does not equal an instance. A raid refers to a group of people (specifically more than 5 people). An instance is an area which is not tied to the open world, meaning not just anybody can approach you inside an instance. Plus there are raid bosses (bosses that are so strong they require more than 5 people to be killed) that are not in instances.
Mother, BT, sunwell; ya, I played them. They were boring the first play through, and more so each repetition.
You can do each of those raid instances once a week, so that's like, four BT bosses a month? That's repetitive to you, and killing Mephisto constantly all days long is not repetitive?
Quote from "avanent" »
The questing was pointless, the leveling was pointless, and the instances are pointless. The game is pointless, sorry to tell you.
Questing and leveling is just the tutorial process. The game starts when you hit the level cap.
Maybe learn some standard mmorpg terms, before discussing them
Mother, BT, sunwell; ya, I played them. They were boring the first play through, and more so each repetition.
The questing was pointless, the leveling was pointless, and the instances are pointless. The game is pointless, sorry to tell you.
Off Topic:
Man you don't even kno what a raid is.
First you said you didn't find 'raid party'. There no such a thing. The name is raid.
Second you say it's stupid to play a solo mmorpg.
And then you 've done all the high end content - witch you need a ''raid party'' and cannot be done soloing.
You are nor but a wow hater talking no sense.
In Topic:
And i hope they gives us not necessary a 'high end' content. Enougth content to get to 99 without endless runs in the same boss is allready great.
I guess the new quest system will furfill this issue.
Off Topic:
Man you don't even kno what a raid is.
First you said you didn't find 'raid party'. There no such a thing. The name is raid.
Second you say it's stupid to play a solo mmorpg.
And then you 've done all the high end content - witch you need a ''raid party'' and cannot be done soloing.
You are nor but a wow hater talking no sense.
In Topic:
And i hope they gives us not necessary a 'high end' content. Enougth content to get to 99 without endless runs in the same boss is allready great.
I guess the new quest system will furfill this issue.
You are getting me confused with the other guy
I said the game up to end game was solo-able, which is dumb. With exception to the game's instances, it is a solo-able game. Lame.
I didnt mention raiding groups in this thread, BUT... I did everything people said to try and find the game's fun.... i was in a raiding guild, i also joined other raiding groups, to really make sure I was getting a wider variety of experience. I continually found myself bored. You can find raiding 'parties' they just tend to be less efficient and more likely to crash and burn.
You should be able to get to max level solo. Unless you get on and like waiting 15 minutes for your friend to come so you can do the same quest. Then your other friend gets on, wait 15 more minutes. Call me a dick, but I never liked helping people finish quests if I had already completed the quest probably why I've figured out I'm not good with MMOs...I'm not a very helpful person.
You should be able to get to max level solo. Unless you get on and like waiting 15 minutes for your friend to come so you can do the same quest. Then your other friend gets on, wait 15 more minutes. Call me a dick, but I never liked helping people finish quests if I had already completed the quest probably why I've figured out I'm not good with MMOs...I'm not a very helpful person.
Thats just dumb.
No point in it being an mmorpg then. And it nots about just friends, it about the people around you. The game should bee available online or offline if thats how it is. Theres no point in it being online only if your avoiding people most of the time.
Well cut it out with the MMO discussion. I just mentioned WoW as an example of well developed end-game, it's not supposed to be Diablo vs WoW flamewar now all of a sudden.
The endgame content Diablo will have will obviously rely on random quests, random encounters, random events that combine both, and bosses that you will be killing with a friend or two but also solo once you become powerful enough. Whatever they come up with, what matters is that they are trying. They are thinking about what can be done to improve end-game and that's all I want to know.
Look at it this way, in WoW you spend x hours getting to max level so that you can enjoy y hours of raiding etc.
Now, the way WoW is designed now, x = boring, y = fun (according to your claims).
Now, if they designed WoW so that instead of having x time just being boring, x was in fact FUN, as well as y, then you have x + y = fun. MORE FUN.
More fun = more subscribes = more money.
Are you purposfully being a retard or is it just second nature?
FORCING you to spend time to do something which is purposefully not fun, so that you can have fun later on, is NOT good game design. You don't need to be out of nursery to figure that out.
hes not saying that leveling is boring. If it was none would bother leveling an alt (which in most cases of WoW players is more than common).
The "real" fun he's referring to is the "MMO" fun. Where you have to cooperate, be completely coordinated and work as a team to achieve something. Thats the whole aspect of the MMORPG genre, to make people work together. Thats why end-game, from normal instanced dungeons to raids arent soloable. And thats the same in every MMORPG.
The quests given in WoW have all interesting stories in them. Its the people that just click "accept" without reading the texts that find it boring.
none forces anyone to do anything in WoW. There are things you CAN do. You can level your professions, level your character to max level, or simply explore and do some questing. Grind reputation with a certain faction (yes, you have to do that to befriend certain factions) or do PvP.
I played WoW for more than 2 years and never really bothered with PvP. Barely grinded any reputation too. But i did what was most interesting to me. End-game raiding and alt leveling (with the casual dungeons, maybe some raids too).
end-game in Diablo 3 would keep it alive for much more time, but as mentioned before, not in the MMORPG sense. End-game shouldnt be something thats not implemented in the single-player version of the game. Everything must be soloable. New quests, random dungeons with scripted bosses and better loots that spawn on each game creation and can be found in various camps in the game, that would keep the game interesting even after you reach the level cap.
that way people would think they're "forced" to play online. It was one thing i didnt like that much about Hellgate: London. Also one thing i didnt like was that there werent random events like Uber Diablo and the key hunt in single player.
Real End-Game Content is really going to make Single Player much more interesting. (You know, those guys who read dialogue and do those quests like killing Blood Raven).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
Because that's something you're not supposed to do alone. Actually, most casual D2 players couldn't handle a single über with only half of his hp.
well, the uber Tristram event couldnt possibly be handled in single player without hacked characters, but uber Diablo alone is very possible. I did it on my hammerdin on hardcore solo on 1.10 with perfectly legit gear (found all of it with my sorc) so that could fit the single-player content. The thing is balancing. How you bring tactic to the fights and not have the bosses 1 shot you (as Wilson said in one of the last interviews) to make it challenging. Lack of pots and leech should make it hard for them to implement such encounters in Diablo 3.
What i'm afraid with "online only" content is that they're going to have the same effect as Hellgate: London where you could only access the best gear online after paying some subscription fees. I dont mind the MMORPGs, but i want each of the game to belong to a genre, i dont like the idea of a hybrid like "action-MMO-rpg".
But yes, that's the kind of thing D3 should have in greater amounts.
Maybe learn some standard mmorpg terms, before discussing them
Mother, BT, sunwell; ya, I played them. They were boring the first play through, and more so each repetition.
The questing was pointless, the leveling was pointless, and the instances are pointless. The game is pointless, sorry to tell you.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
A raid does not equal an instance. A raid refers to a group of people (specifically more than 5 people). An instance is an area which is not tied to the open world, meaning not just anybody can approach you inside an instance. Plus there are raid bosses (bosses that are so strong they require more than 5 people to be killed) that are not in instances.
Questing and leveling is just the tutorial process. The game starts when you hit the level cap.
WoW only happens to set a benchmark for what RPG design should be like....
Off Topic:
Man you don't even kno what a raid is.
First you said you didn't find 'raid party'. There no such a thing. The name is raid.
Second you say it's stupid to play a solo mmorpg.
And then you 've done all the high end content - witch you need a ''raid party'' and cannot be done soloing.
You are nor but a wow hater talking no sense.
In Topic:
And i hope they gives us not necessary a 'high end' content. Enougth content to get to 99 without endless runs in the same boss is allready great.
I guess the new quest system will furfill this issue.
You are getting me confused with the other guy
I said the game up to end game was solo-able, which is dumb. With exception to the game's instances, it is a solo-able game. Lame.
I didnt mention raiding groups in this thread, BUT... I did everything people said to try and find the game's fun.... i was in a raiding guild, i also joined other raiding groups, to really make sure I was getting a wider variety of experience. I continually found myself bored. You can find raiding 'parties' they just tend to be less efficient and more likely to crash and burn.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
Thats just dumb.
No point in it being an mmorpg then. And it nots about just friends, it about the people around you. The game should bee available online or offline if thats how it is. Theres no point in it being online only if your avoiding people most of the time.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
The endgame content Diablo will have will obviously rely on random quests, random encounters, random events that combine both, and bosses that you will be killing with a friend or two but also solo once you become powerful enough. Whatever they come up with, what matters is that they are trying. They are thinking about what can be done to improve end-game and that's all I want to know.
hes not saying that leveling is boring. If it was none would bother leveling an alt (which in most cases of WoW players is more than common).
The "real" fun he's referring to is the "MMO" fun. Where you have to cooperate, be completely coordinated and work as a team to achieve something. Thats the whole aspect of the MMORPG genre, to make people work together. Thats why end-game, from normal instanced dungeons to raids arent soloable. And thats the same in every MMORPG.
The quests given in WoW have all interesting stories in them. Its the people that just click "accept" without reading the texts that find it boring.
none forces anyone to do anything in WoW. There are things you CAN do. You can level your professions, level your character to max level, or simply explore and do some questing. Grind reputation with a certain faction (yes, you have to do that to befriend certain factions) or do PvP.
I played WoW for more than 2 years and never really bothered with PvP. Barely grinded any reputation too. But i did what was most interesting to me. End-game raiding and alt leveling (with the casual dungeons, maybe some raids too).
end-game in Diablo 3 would keep it alive for much more time, but as mentioned before, not in the MMORPG sense. End-game shouldnt be something thats not implemented in the single-player version of the game. Everything must be soloable. New quests, random dungeons with scripted bosses and better loots that spawn on each game creation and can be found in various camps in the game, that would keep the game interesting even after you reach the level cap.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
well, the uber Tristram event couldnt possibly be handled in single player without hacked characters, but uber Diablo alone is very possible. I did it on my hammerdin on hardcore solo on 1.10 with perfectly legit gear (found all of it with my sorc) so that could fit the single-player content. The thing is balancing. How you bring tactic to the fights and not have the bosses 1 shot you (as Wilson said in one of the last interviews) to make it challenging. Lack of pots and leech should make it hard for them to implement such encounters in Diablo 3.
What i'm afraid with "online only" content is that they're going to have the same effect as Hellgate: London where you could only access the best gear online after paying some subscription fees. I dont mind the MMORPGs, but i want each of the game to belong to a genre, i dont like the idea of a hybrid like "action-MMO-rpg".