Damn... why all the hate against the man and his team? Are you guys ignorant or something? Did you even read the whole 8 pages? Do you even understand how business works? Do you know how hard it is to start a company from scratch and work everything out using your own money?
I think what Flagship studios did was an achievement! Their only mistake (and he admits this btw) is that they tried too do too much with very little money. Their only problem was, they where used to Blizzard's funding, and always having millions and millions of dollars at their disposal to make a great game. I have absolutely no doubt at all in my mind, that if HG:L had the Blizzard seal of approval on it, it would have been A LOT more than it currently is. It would have been more finished and with more content. Because let's admit it, the concept was nice, It was different and daring, but that's what Blizzard is all about.
Anyways I hope all the best for Bill Roper and the guys who used to work at Blizzard North and Flagship.
And Uleman, PLEASE GO BACK AND MAKE DIABLO III's MUSIC!!!!! (Don't get me wrong, I like the music now, at least I don't hate it, but I know that Uleman would've made something more memorable and perfect)
You think graphs and cool effects are more important then gameplay?
Well thats like have a nice girlfriend who is a bitch, then haveing a cute girlfriend who are nice too you. oh my gosh!
That is a terrible comparison.
And what graphs? I did not say, and noone said, that effects are more important than gameplay. You are making it seem like only gameplay is important. You must admit that other stuff than that makes a good game.
It actually takes good visuals to have good gameplay, so they go hand in hand. You can't seperate the two and say "you dont need this, but without that, there is no game"
UI and Visuals are just as important as gameplay. and each affect eachother about equally. None of these are what make a great game, however. It's how the producer puts them all together is what makes an epic game.
That is not going to happen. The original employees (ALL OF THEM) from Flagship Studios Seattle founded a new company called Runic Games and they are not going to be working on Mythos.
actually if you read the article it says that some went on the konami and some went to EA and Roper is looking to find jobs for a few others.
actually if you read the article it says that some went on the konami and some went to EA and Roper is looking to find jobs for a few others.
" When was the decision made to form Runic Games?
Immediately after the dissolution of Flagship Studios, we knew we wanted to get back to doing what we'd started with Mythos.
"
interesting. who said they stopped making mythos?
p.s. this is what Sol meant
How many other former Flagship employees are working at Runic?
The entire Flagship Seattle team - 14 all told - has signed onto Runic Games.
" When was the decision made to form Runic Games?
Immediately after the dissolution of Flagship Studios, we knew we wanted to get back to doing what we'd started with Mythos.
"
interesting. who said they stopped making mythos?
p.s. this is what Sol meant
How many other former Flagship employees are working at Runic?
The entire Flagship Seattle team - 14 all told - has signed onto Runic Games.
so you are, in fact, wrong, EMP.
I see, so the whole Seattle team is gonna be on @ Runic. This should be very interesting...
And what graphs? I did not say, and noone said, that effects are more important than gameplay. You are making it seem like only gameplay is important. You must admit that other stuff than that makes a good game.
It actually takes good visuals to have good gameplay, so they go hand in hand. You can't seperate the two and say "you dont need this, but without that, there is no game"
UI and Visuals are just as important as gameplay. and each affect eachother about equally. None of these are what make a great game, however. It's how the producer puts them all together is what makes an epic game.
True i admit it, but there is nothing to complain about becouse, diablo 3 will have good graph cool effects and best gameplay... you doubt that then you have not a clue what blizzard are abel too do. Still saying play the game befor complaining, sure there are things that i dont like either take zombie wall, i hate it. but its to early too say so i'll wait, until the game is out, then i will send my hate mails
Any way too compare grils too a pc games was bad, i agree. We will make it a car instead!
The Seattle team isn't working on Mythos, FYI. They could, but it is very unlikely that this will happen, according to Travis and Max in their interview.
They are going to be making a new game, but they have not announced what it is yet namely because they are still sorting things out with the office lease and setting the company up right now.
Their intention is to basically make a game that's built upon the same principle foundations as Mythos, but with a proper plan this time around. Mythos' preproduction took a single day, because it was never originally planned to be a fully fledged game as it was a testbed for Hellgate's networking. It eventually evolved into something more than that, but unfortunately the company got shut down before they could really go anywhere with it.
So what's going to happen is that Runic will probably begin work on a new game, possibly with middleware engine technology so that they can begin work on the game as soon as possible, with all the lessons they learned from their work on Mythos.
Damn... why all the hate against the man and his team? Are you guys ignorant or something? Did you even read the whole 8 pages? Do you even understand how business works? Do you know how hard it is to start a company from scratch and work everything out using your own money?
I think what Flagship studios did was an achievement! Their only mistake (and he admits this btw) is that they tried too do too much with very little money. Their only problem was, they where used to Blizzard's funding, and always having millions and millions of dollars at their disposal to make a great game. I have absolutely no doubt at all in my mind, that if HG:L had the Blizzard seal of approval on it, it would have been A LOT more than it currently is. It would have been more finished and with more content. Because let's admit it, the concept was nice, It was different and daring, but that's what Blizzard is all about
An achievement in what?
Anyone can establish a company, but if they fuck up and bring other people down with them then they need to be held accountable for it.
What Bill doesn't mention in the interview is why HanbitSoft got bought over by T3. The reason is simple: HanbitSoft invested so much into Hellgate that when Hellgate failed, it took them down with it. He shouldn't act so surprised about the change of leadership at the company.
What he doesn't mention either is the fact that the game was in development for over 4 years, including post-release when content was, and still is sparse and lacking. Most games are only in development for 2-3 years and manage to deliver superior products. Hold him accountable.
And Uleman, PLEASE GO BACK AND MAKE DIABLO III's MUSIC!!!!! (Don't get me wrong, I like the music now, at least I don't hate it, but I know that Uleman would've made something more memorable and perfect)
Don't judge the musical score of D3 before you've actually heard it. It's unfair to the current composer and his team at Blizzard.
Anyways I hope all the best for Bill Roper and the guys who used to work at Blizzard North and Flagship.
Hey, me too. I really expect to see something good out of Runic.
one factor i remember reading somewhere was that handbisoft rushed the production/ release of hellgate london in order to get it out by a certain date for sales purposes, rushing a games release is the worst thing a company can do hellgates a perfect example, i remember the large fix patches it had in its first month, the only thing i hated about hellgate was the forced instances, i prefer open planed playing/ lvling such as wow, aoc, and now Warhammer online, im actually loving the WarHammer online beta it feels a looks better than wow.
True i admit it, but there is nothing to complain about becouse, diablo 3 will have good graph cool effects and best gameplay... you doubt that then you have not a clue what blizzard are abel too do. Still saying play the game befor complaining, sure there are things that i dont like either take zombie wall, i hate it. but its to early too say so i'll wait, until the game is out, then i will send my hate mails
Any way too compare grils too a pc games was bad, i agree. We will make it a car instead!
I think you have me confused with someone else - i never complained about the art direction of Diablo III, or almost anything else for that matter.
Car comparisons sounds good.
Okay having Pokemon graphics in Diablo 3 is like a Shelby Cobra because it was based off of a non-masculine Mazda Miata.
As long as they don't try to push Diablo3 out the door with a T sticker, they'll still outsell everything on pure hype. Hopefully we get to see decapitated bodies, bloody smears on the walls and iron maidens laying around(IE Catacombs).
Have to agree with Ryan above me; the future of PvP in WoW is horrible in WotLK(Entire vehicle concept should be scrapped) and ill be leaning towards Warhammer's RvR.
As long as they don't try to push Diablo3 out the door with a T sticker, they'll still outsell everything on pure hype. Hopefully we get to see decapitated bodies, bloody smears on the walls and iron maidens laying around(IE Catacombs).
Have to agree with Ryan above me; the future of PvP in WoW is horrible in WotLK(Entire vehicle concept should be scrapped) and ill be leaning towards Warhammer's RvR.
Have you seen the gameplay video? A monster picked up a player, chomped its head off, and threw the corpse accross the screen! (or dropped it.. not sure) Just the gameplay video and trailer made the WWI in paris rated M and have to be with an adult if you're under 18. So don't worry about that ^-^
It doesnt matter how 'old' those arguments are because people still dont seem to understand. Thus reposting them is good sometimes.
Wrong. They are the same tired, and defeated arguments and misinformed phrases over and over again. No one wants to hear about how Diablo 3 is a "Copy Paste WoW" anymore. It isn't.
There very well IS WoW (or WC) influence in the greaphics of D3. You cant deny the fact that the models in the previous games were better in some way.
Actually they even kind of admitted some WoW influence, but unfortunately not in which aspect so it cant be used as proof for anything.
Wrong. The models for D3 are way more detailed - not to mention - 3D! Also, WoW is NOT an influence. Blizzard's art teams are the influence and they created WoW so you might see some similarities there, but it is not COPY PASTE WoW. That much is obvious.
Also i think some people here have problems with understanding 'examples' or 'comparisons' properly. While the first person just said "Would you be happy if D3 had good gameplay and Pokemon graphics?", the second person is saying that D3 graphics arent like Pokemon.
Wrong. You and many others of your ilk are having problems making decent arguments so you resort to exaggerations and bring pokemon into the mix. You can't form a single decent point so you have to resort to false analogies and ridiculous comparison scenarios that box the argument into your narrow point of view.
BTW you kind of admit that D3 is cartoony when sayin "D3 isnt as cartoony as Pokemon."
Wrong. That's out of context. D3 is stylized. Pokemon is cartoony. There is a difference.
(Im starting starting to think that your English is not very good because of your writing but maybe you wrote in a hurry. "... same level of cartoony that Pokemon uses." What in the Hells?)
Wrong. Your english just sucks. It has always sucked. And it has always led to you misunderstanding most of the reasonable things people have typed to you. You can't even comprehend a joke most of the time - let alone a point about art direction.
Anyways, i really don't think bill Roper is the top of the gaming industry. I don't like a lot of his choices and direction. Mythos was terrible to play (at least IMO) And the fact that blizzard north did not want Floating Numbers when they were creating D3 was a dissapointment. I actually like them.
One second while I dig up the Jay Wilson interview.
“There’s a lot of back and forth between the two games, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. We look at ‘World of Warcraft’ and the art style there is more cartoony than we wanted, but in terms of target identification and having a world that feels like you can move through it and spend lots of time in it, there’s a lot of elements to the art style that really work. We wanted an art style that really feels like Blizzard. And we pull new influences from a lot of areas. I think people over-emphasize the ‘World of Warcraft’ comparison. But are we influenced by ‘World of Warcraft’? Of course. As I think anyone who makes games nowadays, they have to be.”
-Jay Wilson
That being said, I don't mind the Art Direction. Blindly following a developer was pretty cute though.
Edit: I think Bill was making a good point about Blizz North having a totally different feel than Irvine, now that everything is back there, it's hard not to be influenced by their biggest franchise.
Right, I see the weather is as usual very torn when it comes to graphics, Creepsville, I agree with your point in saying that the influence came from the art teams, and all that, but in comparison, there is a very similar atmosphere to, lets say some of the heavier levels of WC3, such as later Arthas in the human campaign. What most people miss I think, was that, as Roper said, Diablo was the most distinct franchise of all three, and the new graphic choice seems to have shortened this distance, which in a way is positive because we can expect the team to work better on familiar ground, but again we don't know yet how the horror/dark fantasy atmosphere the game should give us will turn out. Thus my mixed feelings on the art direction.
Anyway I think Bill had the best analysis I ever saw on D3, saying that the studio is actually aiming for easier gameplay and clearer graphics. In my opinion you can't get much more accurate than that in describing the overhaul in the series, health globes seem to be easier to handle than having to stock potions (although I'm sure there will be difficulties imposed to the player as the game progresses). I wonder how he thought the game would be if it was made by the same team as D1 and D2. My only concern with his opinion was that maybe Blizzard is choosing the least hard options to make this game, changing the graphics from gothic to a more consistant choice from their other games, keeping the overall gameplay the same, and as far as we know, placing their bets on cooperative gameplay. I wish I knew for sure how the game will turn out, my expectations are great but I only hope this game is a challange to the new team as much as the last games were to the greatly missed Blizzard North team.
Btw, it was one of the most emotional interviews I've ever read, I really wish the best to all the people who were on this unfortunate battle which was the downfall of Flagship and I look forward to a game which will be on the same level as the team deserved.
bill ropers expertise lies within story writing he wrote the story line for the whole diablo series do your home work Sol before you try diss the greatest man in the gaming industry.
Not true. The main lore guy who designed the story and quests since the beginning of D1 is still on the D3 team.
P.S. I have nothing against Bill Roper. He sounds pretty honest in the interview. The fact is that Hellgate is a sucky game - he even said it himself that it failed.
P.P.S. The art discussion is really getting old. People seem to not care about the game at all, just how it looks. And even then I don't see reasons for frustration, bitching and exaggeration, because it's pretty much perfect. If you ask me, most places in D2 looked mediocre and bland compared to D1. D3 is bringing more life and character into the mix while keeping awesome atmosphere from the prequels. On top of that, it's trying to step forward and introduce more elaborate game mechanics and quality content. Kind of like a transition that happened from D1 to D2, just on a smaller scale. D3 is closer to D2 than D2 was to D1. After playing D1, and seeing D2 for the first time, I was really disappointed but later got to love it for the gameplay and gameplay only. This time around, I was twitching in awe, seeing what they did with D3, art-wise and gameplay-wise - it surpassed all my expectations and I really believe it's doing justice to the Diablo lore and universe. I also happen to value this opinion of mine a great deal seeing as Blizzard happens to feel the same way - and they are a company that never makes mistakes.
Bill is right the art direction is diffrent....just diffrent not lame and hrorible diffrent have you poeple ever seen a rose bud turn into a rose..its dark and not vividly beutiful but when it buds omg its a beutiful red rose....not a black and gray rose...stop complaining this thread has become and art direction thread it seems like everything comesback to it for no apparent reason just because someone stated their opinion on it...and no one is wrong for liking it or disliking it its peoples opinions they can think feel and say whatever they want as long as they dont spam the forums... and diablo 3 is not the end of the storyling the devs have said it that its closing the storyline for this but not for the series they wwill NOT forget about diablo they said...so i have faith in blizzard don't make them change the art style because bots want to its just not fair...please go outside of your moms basement you 32 year old gaming freaks
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
One second while I dig up the Jay Wilson interview.
One minute while I put the quotes back into CONTEXT.
WoW did NOT influence the art style of Diablo 3. WoW did influence the way in which they approached making the game as they learned a lot from WoW - as Jay Wilson has said. You took my quote out of context.
But to say that WoW's art style influenced Diablo 3's art style is ridiculous. It's the artists that conjure the art style - not the previous art they've worked on. People are getting the horse before the cart on this one.
Sorry, Kenzai. I still have you on ignore. I just responded to your rant because someone else quoted it.
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I think what Flagship studios did was an achievement! Their only mistake (and he admits this btw) is that they tried too do too much with very little money. Their only problem was, they where used to Blizzard's funding, and always having millions and millions of dollars at their disposal to make a great game. I have absolutely no doubt at all in my mind, that if HG:L had the Blizzard seal of approval on it, it would have been A LOT more than it currently is. It would have been more finished and with more content. Because let's admit it, the concept was nice, It was different and daring, but that's what Blizzard is all about.
Anyways I hope all the best for Bill Roper and the guys who used to work at Blizzard North and Flagship.
And Uleman, PLEASE GO BACK AND MAKE DIABLO III's MUSIC!!!!! (Don't get me wrong, I like the music now, at least I don't hate it, but I know that Uleman would've made something more memorable and perfect)
And what graphs? I did not say, and noone said, that effects are more important than gameplay. You are making it seem like only gameplay is important. You must admit that other stuff than that makes a good game.
It actually takes good visuals to have good gameplay, so they go hand in hand. You can't seperate the two and say "you dont need this, but without that, there is no game"
UI and Visuals are just as important as gameplay. and each affect eachother about equally. None of these are what make a great game, however. It's how the producer puts them all together is what makes an epic game.
When was the decision made to form Runic Games?
Immediately after the dissolution of Flagship Studios, we knew we wanted to get back to doing what we'd started with Mythos.
"
interesting. who said they stopped making mythos?
p.s. this is what Sol meant
How many other former Flagship employees are working at Runic?
The entire Flagship Seattle team - 14 all told - has signed onto Runic Games.
so you are, in fact, wrong, EMP.
True i admit it, but there is nothing to complain about becouse, diablo 3 will have good graph cool effects and best gameplay... you doubt that then you have not a clue what blizzard are abel too do. Still saying play the game befor complaining, sure there are things that i dont like either take zombie wall, i hate it. but its to early too say so i'll wait, until the game is out, then i will send my hate mails
Any way too compare grils too a pc games was bad, i agree. We will make it a car instead!
They are going to be making a new game, but they have not announced what it is yet namely because they are still sorting things out with the office lease and setting the company up right now.
Their intention is to basically make a game that's built upon the same principle foundations as Mythos, but with a proper plan this time around. Mythos' preproduction took a single day, because it was never originally planned to be a fully fledged game as it was a testbed for Hellgate's networking. It eventually evolved into something more than that, but unfortunately the company got shut down before they could really go anywhere with it.
So what's going to happen is that Runic will probably begin work on a new game, possibly with middleware engine technology so that they can begin work on the game as soon as possible, with all the lessons they learned from their work on Mythos.
Hellforge: Forging a passion for video games.
Anyone can establish a company, but if they fuck up and bring other people down with them then they need to be held accountable for it.
What Bill doesn't mention in the interview is why HanbitSoft got bought over by T3. The reason is simple: HanbitSoft invested so much into Hellgate that when Hellgate failed, it took them down with it. He shouldn't act so surprised about the change of leadership at the company.
What he doesn't mention either is the fact that the game was in development for over 4 years, including post-release when content was, and still is sparse and lacking. Most games are only in development for 2-3 years and manage to deliver superior products. Hold him accountable.
Don't judge the musical score of D3 before you've actually heard it. It's unfair to the current composer and his team at Blizzard.
Hey, me too. I really expect to see something good out of Runic.
Hellforge: Forging a passion for video games.
Car comparisons sounds good.
Okay having Pokemon graphics in Diablo 3 is like a Shelby Cobra because it was based off of a non-masculine Mazda Miata.
Have to agree with Ryan above me; the future of PvP in WoW is horrible in WotLK(Entire vehicle concept should be scrapped) and ill be leaning towards Warhammer's RvR.
Allright sorry then, my bad!
Wrong. They are the same tired, and defeated arguments and misinformed phrases over and over again. No one wants to hear about how Diablo 3 is a "Copy Paste WoW" anymore. It isn't.
Wrong. The models for D3 are way more detailed - not to mention - 3D! Also, WoW is NOT an influence. Blizzard's art teams are the influence and they created WoW so you might see some similarities there, but it is not COPY PASTE WoW. That much is obvious.
Wrong. You and many others of your ilk are having problems making decent arguments so you resort to exaggerations and bring pokemon into the mix. You can't form a single decent point so you have to resort to false analogies and ridiculous comparison scenarios that box the argument into your narrow point of view.
Wrong. That's out of context. D3 is stylized. Pokemon is cartoony. There is a difference.
Wrong. Your english just sucks. It has always sucked. And it has always led to you misunderstanding most of the reasonable things people have typed to you. You can't even comprehend a joke most of the time - let alone a point about art direction.
Anyways, i really don't think bill Roper is the top of the gaming industry. I don't like a lot of his choices and direction. Mythos was terrible to play (at least IMO) And the fact that blizzard north did not want Floating Numbers when they were creating D3 was a dissapointment. I actually like them.
One second while I dig up the Jay Wilson interview.
“There’s a lot of back and forth between the two games, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. We look at ‘World of Warcraft’ and the art style there is more cartoony than we wanted, but in terms of target identification and having a world that feels like you can move through it and spend lots of time in it, there’s a lot of elements to the art style that really work. We wanted an art style that really feels like Blizzard. And we pull new influences from a lot of areas. I think people over-emphasize the ‘World of Warcraft’ comparison. But are we influenced by ‘World of Warcraft’? Of course. As I think anyone who makes games nowadays, they have to be.”
-Jay Wilson
That being said, I don't mind the Art Direction. Blindly following a developer was pretty cute though.
Edit: I think Bill was making a good point about Blizz North having a totally different feel than Irvine, now that everything is back there, it's hard not to be influenced by their biggest franchise.
Anyway I think Bill had the best analysis I ever saw on D3, saying that the studio is actually aiming for easier gameplay and clearer graphics. In my opinion you can't get much more accurate than that in describing the overhaul in the series, health globes seem to be easier to handle than having to stock potions (although I'm sure there will be difficulties imposed to the player as the game progresses). I wonder how he thought the game would be if it was made by the same team as D1 and D2. My only concern with his opinion was that maybe Blizzard is choosing the least hard options to make this game, changing the graphics from gothic to a more consistant choice from their other games, keeping the overall gameplay the same, and as far as we know, placing their bets on cooperative gameplay. I wish I knew for sure how the game will turn out, my expectations are great but I only hope this game is a challange to the new team as much as the last games were to the greatly missed Blizzard North team.
Btw, it was one of the most emotional interviews I've ever read, I really wish the best to all the people who were on this unfortunate battle which was the downfall of Flagship and I look forward to a game which will be on the same level as the team deserved.
P.S. I have nothing against Bill Roper. He sounds pretty honest in the interview. The fact is that Hellgate is a sucky game - he even said it himself that it failed.
P.P.S. The art discussion is really getting old. People seem to not care about the game at all, just how it looks. And even then I don't see reasons for frustration, bitching and exaggeration, because it's pretty much perfect. If you ask me, most places in D2 looked mediocre and bland compared to D1. D3 is bringing more life and character into the mix while keeping awesome atmosphere from the prequels. On top of that, it's trying to step forward and introduce more elaborate game mechanics and quality content. Kind of like a transition that happened from D1 to D2, just on a smaller scale. D3 is closer to D2 than D2 was to D1. After playing D1, and seeing D2 for the first time, I was really disappointed but later got to love it for the gameplay and gameplay only. This time around, I was twitching in awe, seeing what they did with D3, art-wise and gameplay-wise - it surpassed all my expectations and I really believe it's doing justice to the Diablo lore and universe. I also happen to value this opinion of mine a great deal seeing as Blizzard happens to feel the same way - and they are a company that never makes mistakes.
One minute while I put the quotes back into CONTEXT.
WoW did NOT influence the art style of Diablo 3. WoW did influence the way in which they approached making the game as they learned a lot from WoW - as Jay Wilson has said. You took my quote out of context.
But to say that WoW's art style influenced Diablo 3's art style is ridiculous. It's the artists that conjure the art style - not the previous art they've worked on. People are getting the horse before the cart on this one.
Sorry, Kenzai. I still have you on ignore. I just responded to your rant because someone else quoted it.