You should quit, and never return. If you get this furious over a game, ferchrissake, then you need to find another hobby, one which will cause less harm to your blood pressure.
End game represents only part of the game play anyway. There are way morepeople still busytestingvarious classes and builds with different gear and gems at a relatively lower level. A "top player" does not pay more than a casual player, who still has much to explore with the current patch or even the previous patches. Which software is free of bug? Of course, Blizzard's work is not perfect, say, lousy original design for some sets which are off by 10 folds or more, like the firebird and the 1000 raiment etc.; but that are not critical for the overall game play. And now all these are corrected.
Yes that is a very good point and very true as well. But at least for me it always comes back to the point that blizzard has promised to fix many things and balance many things and many players are getting tired of this. Granted the larger player base is happy with the game where it is and does not notice the majority of bugs/balance issues, however blizzard should not only cater to those players, they should make more of an effort to live up to what they say. Yes I do know that I am in the minority of players, but it is players like myself who, if blizzard makes a good game, will promote their products, help other players, design builds, help the community with guides and information, and when blizzard neglects people in my bracket it is not a very good business policy. A business who ignores a minority simply because they are a minority, although successful, is not a good business.
You should quit, and never return. If you get this furious over a game, ferchrissake, then you need to find another hobby, one which will cause less harm to your blood pressure.
Quit if you want to and take your community of experienced, overintelligent, mature players to another games. Saying 'fix this or people will quit' is as childish as what I'm about to say:
You don't like it? Move the hell out of here and spread your riot somewhere else.
Don't bother replying, I won't read this. It's hard to argue with person who separate things into white and black only.
ROFL I was done with you the second I realized you had nothing constructive to say
dont lie, you can back to see if I replied to you....
OP wrote a Hello world script, watch out blizzard, he's better than your Devs! xD
no but seriously, just stop playing. If you think you and your friend are the most important ppl playing this game and without you everything will go down the drain, I have bad news for you.
Quote from Hyperion1407Making statements like this shows how unintelligent you are. It is just plain ignorant to make assumptions about things and then make statements about them at treat them as facts.
Quoted to safe this fine piece of stupidity xDDDDDDD
Quit if you want to and take your community of experienced, overintelligent, mature players to another games. Saying 'fix this or people will quit' is as childish as what I'm about to say:
You don't like it? Move the hell out of here and spread your riot somewhere else.
Don't bother replying, I won't read this. It's hard to argue with person who separate things into white and black only.
ROFL I was done with you the second I realized you had nothing constructive to say
dont lie, you can back to see if I replied to you....
How odd considering that nothing in your original post was constructive. Yes, Blizzard is slow, they've always been slow. They're better about it than they used to be. At least now they explain their thought process a bit, it's not just logging into the game one day to discover a patch with broad sweeping changes to things you didn't even know were broken.
Eh, the current class balance annoys me slightly. There are things that I'd like changed. I'd like to see WD get more build options for one. The current WD playstyle is the most boring thing ever. Crusaders at least have several build options now, instead of just 1, unless your goal is to be on the cutting edge of Greater Rifts. If that's your goal, then the game is in the same place it's been since launch with one or two usable builds per class. Still not quitting the game over it though.
The thing is, as a customer this is nothign of our concern. What happens is, stuff is broken and every time it takes months to fix. Is DIII better now ? Yes. Does it mean we should be happy with one spec ruling all the others even after a major expansion and a major patch and the leftover classes each having one marginally efficient spec that requires to have THE item ? No.
Sorry, but having only "set of items X+Y+Z" as a gearing option is pretty bad, if only because it enforces a single style of gameplay. Monk ? Flying dragon and stupid spam (seriously, some people are macroing it), mandatory Unity and RoRG and 3 pieces SWK. DH ? Sentries and a specific set of items. The worst ? There are other specs that I like the gameplay of way better, but I can't play them !
There's a few problems that you're overlooking here. Just because a spec/gear setup has optimal efficiency doesn't mean you have to play it. Technically at this point in the season you only really have to play it for GRifts. So you're not being forced to play it against your will, you're simply choosing to because it's the most efficient. The only time you're really forced to play a certain way is based on the gear you have available, and even then for most people on the ladder it isn't that big of an issue at this point because you have at least several sets that are viable for the top specs. Nothing is stopping you from playing a spec you prefer but yourself and your need to be optimally efficient.
Most importantly though, the game will always, always, have a spec/class that is the most superior. This won't ever change because of the way games work. Granted, it could be overall better for some classes and specs, but generally whatever spec is the most efficient people will tend to flock toward it regardless of anything else and people will always complain about it without realizing that it's out of the developer's control - short of homogenizing all specs/classes. It's also not an easy flip of a switch to make other specs as viable, as well as it's not all that worthwhile to commit development time to making sure all specs are perfectly efficient across each other because that's just not possible.
The thing is, as a customer this is nothign of our concern. What happens is, stuff is broken and every time it takes months to fix. Is DIII better now ? Yes. Does it mean we should be happy with one spec ruling all the others even after a major expansion and a major patch and the leftover classes each having one marginally efficient spec that requires to have THE item ? No.
Sorry, but having only "set of items X+Y+Z" as a gearing option is pretty bad, if only because it enforces a single style of gameplay. Monk ? Flying dragon and stupid spam (seriously, some people are macroing it), mandatory Unity and RoRG and 3 pieces SWK. DH ? Sentries and a specific set of items. The worst ? There are other specs that I like the gameplay of way better, but I can't play them !
There's a few problems that you're overlooking here. Just because a spec/gear setup has optimal efficiency doesn't mean you have to play it. Technically at this point in the season you only really have to play it for GRifts. So you're not being forced to play it against your will, you're simply choosing to because it's the most efficient. The only time you're really forced to play a certain way is based on the gear you have available, and even then for most people on the ladder it isn't that big of an issue at this point because you have at least several sets that are viable for the top specs. Nothing is stopping you from playing a spec you prefer but yourself and your need to be optimally efficient.
Most importantly though, the game will always,
I do see your point, and I know that there will always be one class that is on top, but is it really to much to ask for blizzard to supply at least 1 decent damage build for every class? It took blizzard 8 months yes EIGHT MONTHS to give monks a viable DPS build for T6 and literally all they did was increase the damage on the Sunwuko's set, either Blizzard really does not care that much or they have serious problems with their company if it takes them 8 months to increase the damage on 1 set and all of a sudden make a class a viable DPS class.
Thanks you for sharing your opinion though, and yes you are most likely unfortunately correct that there will always be one spec/class on top
I want a DH T6 option that does not require a full Marauder's set. A more active playstyle that isn't placing sentries and running away is all I ask for in the next patch.
That is true, but the delta is significant. I have all the gear to play all monk specs and the difference is staggering. You can do T6 with all of them, but remember gem leveling is now part of your character progress and reaching higher rifts is necessary. I can actually play a basic lightning spec because I leveled the necessary gems with the SWK spec. I wouldn't mind a 1 or 2 GRs difference, but that can go as high as 10. Around GR 30 my lightning DW spec starts to actually lack the needed DPS. (And I have the full lightning gear complement with good rolls and max %dmg, TF, OS etc) That's too big a gap.
I agree with most of what you're saying. I just wanted to point out that disparity in specs and classes isn't that easy to fix and will always exist. Closing the gap as much as possible is what they should focus on balance-wise, but the gap will always exist. Some minor issues, such as how gems are leveled, can be remedied without changing balance. Such as creating a currency similar to blood shards that only GRift bosses drop and increased drop rate on higher levels as a means to upgrade gems.
The problem is that some of this, specifically disparity in GRifts, are flawed due to fundamental game mechanics that would require an expansion-like development cycle, or more, in order to change.
I do see your point, and I know that there will always be one class that is on top, but is it really to much to ask for blizzard to supply at least 1 decent damage build for every class? It took blizzard 8 months yes EIGHT MONTHS to give monks a viable DPS build for T6 and literally all they did was increase the damage on the Sunwuko's set, either Blizzard really does not care that much or they have serious problems with their company if it takes them 8 months to increase the damage on 1 set and all of a sudden make a class a viable DPS class.
Thanks you for sharing your opinion though, and yes you are most likely unfortunately correct that there will always be one spec/class on top
There's something to keep in mind with the time it takes Blizzard to develop and balance game mechanics. They're no longer making anything on this game outside of game sales. So all development costs for between expansion patches is on their own dime. I'm not saying that's an excuse, but something people seriously take for granted in this day and age when the majority of released games have literally zero development effort post launch.
Compared to their other games, Diablo 3 is much slower in development of patches that effect gameplay, and money is a big reason why. WoW has sub fees, SC2 makes them money in tournament royalty fees, Hearthstone is a constant source of revenue, but Diablo 3 has nothing beyond it's original sales. That's a significant difference that likely does effect how much development gets spent on D3.
what a stupid and useless post. the fact that you cannot play any class in this game does not mean its not balanced.
-top GRift achieved per class on non-seasonal soft-core.
WD: 41
DH: 43
SADER: 41
BARB: 43
WIZ: 42
MONK: 40
where do you see that "horrible unbalance " ? DH destroying erryting !!! " yet barb cleared same level of grift wow wiz is just 1 level lower and so on. the game is extremely well balanced for how many classes and skills and items there are in the game. just quit already and dont spam forums with useless QQ, if i were the blizzard employee who banned your sorry ass out of forums i'd just include game account in the ban.
Please actually read the posts before you come in and comment with stuff like this. When there are 3 pages of post and you are to lazy to even SCAN through them, don't come in here and expect to be taken seriously.
i just have one think that i think i share whit the original post. and thats the fact that every thing that has bin added to the game is just an extension.
of the game. end game was rifts, u needed 3 keys + organs to make HF ring. now its Grifts and u need 4 keys + organs to make HF amulet.
(im not sure btw how many who actually use HF amu.)
but all this is fine by me. the biggest issue as i see it is the fact that there is only 1 top of the line build for every class.
and those builds that comes as runner up are not even close. we are talking about 1 build that lets you do Grift 35+ and the next gets you through T6 normal rifts.
and one thing that i think is behind all this is the lack of skill synergy. the synergy between skills. its to item dependent right now. and what i mean is that its very hard to experiment whit skills/builds since you need almost perfect gear just to try a theory. and if that theory fails... then you have lost 50/100 hours for nothing.
Yes I agree with you to an extent. I am not complaining about the new content, I think the fact that they add new stuff to the game is great, my issue with them comes from the fact that there are still bugs to this day that have existed and been known since the release of D3V.
As to there being only 1 viable build for each class for endgame content I agree that it is a big issue, people keep saying that this patch/expansion has made so much more progress then and improvements to build diversity over D3V, but if people actually know what they are talking about and look at what they are saying it is really not true.
Right now for endgame content this is the build breakdown:
Wizard: Firebirds wizard
Barbarian: Raekor barbarian
WD: Jade
DH: M6
Monk: Sunwuko
In D3V there were more build options (granted only 1 more per class but they existed)
Wizard: CM and Archon
Barbarian: HotA and Perma Wrath WW
WD: CoB and 0Dog WD
DH: Rapid fire (this is the only build I know of that they used, there might have been more but I did not play DH in D3V)
Monk: Nirvana build, CS Support DPS, CS ZDPS, etc...
So saying that blizzard has helped the endgame builds or created more class/build diversity is not true at all.
Most importantly though, the game will always, always, have a spec/class that is the most superior. This won't ever change because of the way games work. Granted, it could be overall better for some classes and specs, but generally whatever spec is the most efficient people will tend to flock toward it regardless of anything else and people will always complain about it without realizing that it's out of the developer's control - short of homogenizing all specs/classes. It's also not an easy flip of a switch to make other specs as viable, as well as it's not all that worthwhile to commit development time to making sure all specs are perfectly efficient across each other because that's just not possible.
This. And the most significant thing to consider here is that it doesn't matter how close the specs and classes are. It doesn't matter how small the gap is between the "most superior" and the chasing crowd. The players who care about that will all flock to the one top spec.
We've seen this in WoW. Talent or gear choices that were literally 1% worse than other alternatives were decried as completely absolutely useless, and it was accepted that anyone who played a 1%-inferior spec was a hopeless noob and should at the very least quit the game forever, or better still kill themselves for the sake of the gene pool.
This. And the most significant thing to consider here is that it doesn't matter how close the specs and classes are. It doesn't matter how small the gap is between the "most superior" and the chasing crowd. The players who care about that will all flock to the one top spec.
We've seen this in WoW. Talent or gear choices that were literally 1% worse than other alternatives were decried as completely absolutely useless, and it was accepted that anyone who played a 1%-inferior spec was a hopeless noob and should at the very least quit the game forever, or better still kill themselves for the sake of the gene pool.
That is the issue, there is a difference between a build being superior and having a close 2nd option/build... Then having a superior build that is 900 miles above anything else.... I agree with the post about the game being too item dependent, it really is. I have been saying this from day 1, the damage etc is all based off of % weapon damage, and any unique effect you get is from items... It is a poor design flaw simply because it leaves no room for actual level based diversity... Things they could do imo is add tabs in paragon that let you boost certain % damage of skills you like, and or boost % element damage, this way you could drop those Mage Fist gloves for something else etc... This is just a small example but it goes on to a much larger scale. It would let you play that Bola build that you like etc... I am not saying every build has to be the best for GR 35...... However, it is simply put like this. Do make a strong hungering arrow build, what it may lack in AOE make it crazy good at single target damage. Do make a strong Bola shot build, what it lacks in single target it makes up for in AOE... And this trend can go on for each class.... The issue with this game and how it was made is the fact that games like this have been done before, and at times blizzard acts like they are shooting in the dark and "testing" things this many years into the game. Like I have said I understand a new game taking time to work kinks out, but this game guys? Come on it has been out for some time now..
what a stupid and useless post. the fact that you cannot play any class in this game does not mean its not balanced.
-top GRift achieved per class on non-seasonal soft-core.
WD: 41
DH: 43
SADER: 41
BARB: 43
WIZ: 42
MONK: 40
where do you see that "horrible unbalance " ? DH destroying erryting !!! " yet barb cleared same level of grift wow wiz is just 1 level lower and so on. the game is extremely well balanced for how many classes and skills and items there are in the game. just quit already and dont spam forums with useless QQ, if i were the blizzard employee who banned your sorry ass out of forums i'd just include game account in the ban.
You sir are a derp, what you are saying is no where near the truth. Yes some people may be on top with a class, but they do it with the same build we all have to use number 1. Number 2 they spam rifts for RNG and hope to do conduit gaming. Number 3 you have to look at all variables not just 1. So for example you may have like 15 barbs in the 36-42 range, and like 20 WD from the 37-42 range etc etc.... Go look at DH..... it is like 300 through the 36-43 range. Point being you can not pick and choose your argument based off of false information.. Think before you speak..
That is the issue, there is a difference between a build being superior and having a close 2nd option/build... Then having a superior build that is 900 miles above anything else.... I agree with the post about the game being too item dependent, it really is. I have been saying this from day 1, the damage etc is all based off of % weapon damage, and any unique effect you get is from items... It is a poor design flaw simply because it leaves no room for actual level based diversity... Things they could do imo is add tabs in paragon that let you boost certain % damage of skills you like, and or boost % element damage, this way you could drop those Mage Fist gloves for something else etc... This is just a small example but it goes on to a much larger scale. It would let you play that Bola build that you like etc... I am not saying every build has to be the best for GR 35...... However, it is simply put like this. Do make a strong hungering arrow build, what it may lack in AOE make it crazy good at single target damage. Do make a strong Bola shot build, what it lacks in single target it makes up for in AOE... And this trend can go on for each class.... The issue with this game and how it was made is the fact that games like this have been done before, and at times blizzard acts like they are shooting in the dark and "testing" things this many years into the game. Like I have said I understand a new game taking time to work kinks out, but this game guys? Come on it has been out for some time now..
As I said before though, the examples you list and that other people suggest are typically band-aid fixes that Blizzard seriously frowns upon doing because all that does is hold off the issue for another time. They're much more keen to actually make fundamental baseline changes where the root of the problem actually lies - which is good and bad. It's good because they care about the game as a whole and want it to be fixed correctly. It's bad because it tends to take much more time because those issues can't typically be resolved outside of expansion-like development time.
You say games like this have been done before, when honestly they really haven't. Sure there have been hack and slash games for the past 20 years, but none have been even half as flexible as Diablo 3 is, where you can literally play any spec and change base stats as you want without having to re-roll a character. Furthermore, other games in this genre still to this day have the exact same issue. Path of Exile is just as bad, if not worse, because of how their ladder system works where you're not just forced to play a certain spec but in most cases a certain class just to obtain a decent ranking. So I'm sorry but this isn't as simple as you claim it to be.
This. And the most significant thing to consider here is that it doesn't matter how close the specs and classes are. It doesn't matter how small the gap is between the "most superior" and the chasing crowd. The players who care about that will all flock to the one top spec.
We've seen this in WoW. Talent or gear choices that were literally 1% worse than other alternatives were decried as completely absolutely useless, and it was accepted that anyone who played a 1%-inferior spec was a hopeless noob and should at the very least quit the game forever, or better still kill themselves for the sake of the gene pool.
So what you're saying is that people would exaggerate small differences to ridiculous proportions, confuse tenuous opinions with robust facts, declare any dissenters to be idiots, fanboys or both, and then drag the thread on for far too long in their bizarre crusade to try to get self-professed fans to be as negative about the game as they are in a process which is indistinguishable from trolling?
Gosh. I hope that doesn't happen here
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Thanks for your comment and feed back
Thanks doctor!
dont lie, you can back to see if I replied to you....
no but seriously, just stop playing. If you think you and your friend are the most important ppl playing this game and without you everything will go down the drain, I have bad news for you.
Quoted to safe this fine piece of stupidity xDDDDDDD
Eh, the current class balance annoys me slightly. There are things that I'd like changed. I'd like to see WD get more build options for one. The current WD playstyle is the most boring thing ever. Crusaders at least have several build options now, instead of just 1, unless your goal is to be on the cutting edge of Greater Rifts. If that's your goal, then the game is in the same place it's been since launch with one or two usable builds per class. Still not quitting the game over it though.
Most importantly though, the game will always, always, have a spec/class that is the most superior. This won't ever change because of the way games work. Granted, it could be overall better for some classes and specs, but generally whatever spec is the most efficient people will tend to flock toward it regardless of anything else and people will always complain about it without realizing that it's out of the developer's control - short of homogenizing all specs/classes. It's also not an easy flip of a switch to make other specs as viable, as well as it's not all that worthwhile to commit development time to making sure all specs are perfectly efficient across each other because that's just not possible.
Thanks you for sharing your opinion though, and yes you are most likely unfortunately correct that there will always be one spec/class on top
The problem is that some of this, specifically disparity in GRifts, are flawed due to fundamental game mechanics that would require an expansion-like development cycle, or more, in order to change.
Compared to their other games, Diablo 3 is much slower in development of patches that effect gameplay, and money is a big reason why. WoW has sub fees, SC2 makes them money in tournament royalty fees, Hearthstone is a constant source of revenue, but Diablo 3 has nothing beyond it's original sales. That's a significant difference that likely does effect how much development gets spent on D3.
As to there being only 1 viable build for each class for endgame content I agree that it is a big issue, people keep saying that this patch/expansion has made so much more progress then and improvements to build diversity over D3V, but if people actually know what they are talking about and look at what they are saying it is really not true.
Right now for endgame content this is the build breakdown:
Wizard: Firebirds wizard
Barbarian: Raekor barbarian
WD: Jade
DH: M6
Monk: Sunwuko
In D3V there were more build options (granted only 1 more per class but they existed)
Wizard: CM and Archon
Barbarian: HotA and Perma Wrath WW
WD: CoB and 0Dog WD
DH: Rapid fire (this is the only build I know of that they used, there might have been more but I did not play DH in D3V)
Monk: Nirvana build, CS Support DPS, CS ZDPS, etc...
So saying that blizzard has helped the endgame builds or created more class/build diversity is not true at all.
We've seen this in WoW. Talent or gear choices that were literally 1% worse than other alternatives were decried as completely absolutely useless, and it was accepted that anyone who played a 1%-inferior spec was a hopeless noob and should at the very least quit the game forever, or better still kill themselves for the sake of the gene pool.
You say games like this have been done before, when honestly they really haven't. Sure there have been hack and slash games for the past 20 years, but none have been even half as flexible as Diablo 3 is, where you can literally play any spec and change base stats as you want without having to re-roll a character. Furthermore, other games in this genre still to this day have the exact same issue. Path of Exile is just as bad, if not worse, because of how their ladder system works where you're not just forced to play a certain spec but in most cases a certain class just to obtain a decent ranking. So I'm sorry but this isn't as simple as you claim it to be.
Gosh. I hope that doesn't happen here