Also I would like to add, I feel I have provided enough "evidence" that it at the minimum deserves a blue response to why there are duplicates of this item in the first place.
........and explain the situation.
That's not very wise, is it? For them to communicate so openly about such a sensitive issue?
Remember the gem prices being so low? They never came out and directly addressed the issue, as was being demanded by countless people.
Yet the issue was resolved, quietly, under the table. As should all sensitive issues like this.
Why is it that some of you people demand full disclosure when doing so would not only serve no benefit to stopping the practice, but would actually harm there efforts?
Some of you people sound like a killer asking questions of the police regarding a crime they had committed, hoping to gain some insight to use to their advantage.
"We want answers. Tell us what you're doing." *so we can figure out how to keep getting away with it
This would make sense if items stopped getting duped a month and half ago, while gems got stopped being duped within a week or two.
Like I said above, I didn't bother saying anything when this first happened months ago. Now that there are duped items all over the place (Multiple "isolated issues"), there is a problem and it needs to be addressed before more and more duped items show up in the AH.
This would make sense if items stopped getting duped a month and half ago, while gems got stopped being duped within a week or two.
Like I said above, I didn't bother saying anything when this first happened months ago. Now that there are duped items all over the place (Multiple "isolated issues"), there is a problem and it needs to be addressed before more and more duped items show up in the AH.
I simply cannot explain this to you any more clear than I have.
If even just three people had figured out how to duplicate items in-game, the situation would fast become undeniable and truly rampant on a pandemic scale.
Just 3 people could literally inundate the market with hundreds, if not thousands, of duplicate items over just one weekend.
The issue is a rollback scam.
Certain smaller scale issues (as the Prowlers you cited) may well just be a double drop bug that has been clearly documented as real. An unpredictable, "lucky" RNG bug.
These are isolated issues and I feel confident in my terminology because the amounts we're seeing are well in-step with what would be expected if a handful of IRL friends set out to roll-back scam Blizzard so that they would make a hefty, yet one time, profit run.
TBH when it comes to EU/US the 'gem duping' is probably quite well explained by roll back scams too and a bit of market manipulation, e.g.
1. Spread rumours of gem duping
2. People panic and sell lower than normal to cash out before prices drop too much.
3. Maket is flooded so prices drop even more.
4. People spreading the initial rumour wait till market hits bottom and buy loads of gems at cut down price.
5. .....
6. Profit
I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?
Clarify please?
ISOLATED;Having minimal contact or little in common with others.
Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.
Okay as much as I enjoy talking to you about this matter, if you routinely searched for 1b+ barb items to upgrade into or resell with groups of people also doing the same thing everyday constantly throughout the day, you would understand what we are seeing.
I have responded to you enough times and it's going nowhere except you citing me definitions of the English language.
good luck to you sir.
edit: there is plenty of evidence out there, it's not hard to see. I'm sure some other ppl who don't want duping to get out of control can help show more evidence for the skeptics.
Also the last game I played where duping was endemic the top tier items were being given away in the '00s as they became worthless, I've yet to see that happen.
TBH when it comes to EU/US the 'gem duping' is probably quite well explained by roll back scams too and a bit of market manipulation, e.g.
1. Spread rumours of gem duping
2. People panic and sell lower than normal to cash out before prices drop too much.
3. Maket is flooded so prices drop even more.
4. People spreading the initial rumour wait till market hits bottom and buy loads of gems at cut down price.
5. .....
6. Profit
This is the most ridiculous explanation for the low gem prices that I've ever seen. And: it doesn't add up. Step 2 would only happen if thousands of people sit on 100 radiant star gems. Even if your theory is true, lots and lots of people would have benefited from this because step 4) is where everyone I know got lots of dirt cheap gems. I'd like to see *any* proof for this theory. Besides, I don't see how just spreading rumors gets prices down to 300k (Asia AH).
I have the same amount of proof as those suggesting that duping is rampant.
Also sure others make a profit, but if done deliberately it is those instating that will make the biggest profits by far, and they aren't going to scream and shout about it.
As I said before people as a whole are stupid, and it only takes a little to start a run on things, see real life.
I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?
Clarify please?
ISOLATED;Having minimal contact or little in common with others.
Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.
Okay as much as I enjoy talking to you about this matter, if you routinely searched for 1b+ barb items to upgrade into or resell with groups of people also doing the same thing everyday constantly throughout the day, you would understand what we are seeing.
I have responded to you enough times and it's going nowhere except you citing me definitions of the English language.
good luck to you sir.
edit: there is plenty of evidence out there, it's not hard to see. I'm sure some other ppl who don't want duping to get out of control can help show more evidence for the skeptics.
Your evidence is evidence of something other than what you're implying.
You haven't come out and said it, which I find kinda odd.
You're implying that there is a bonafide method of in-game item duping. I have refuted that innocuous implication quite logically. As in, if this was true, one person could make it quite obvious, let alone the damage several people could do if they knew how to do this.
If this was fact, it would be undeniable. We would be seeing something far more compelling than a smattering of items here and there, in small numbers.
That is what you're implying, correct? That there is an in-game method of duplication being exercised?
Duped items destroy the game's economy, hence the game.
Not necessarily true - the Federal Reserve creates hundreds of billions out of thin air every year ("quantitative easing") and the idea is to help the economy.
These are rollbacks. It starts by getting two of one item via roll back. Slide it to a friend....rollback....now there's 4......slide it to a friend....rollback....now there's 8.
Eventually you run out of friends and it stops.
Actually, its a Bug thats being abused.
And only a Handful people know about it... earning shitloads of Gold and RL Cash.
Thats also the reason why there are only 15-20 Weapons, and not thousands.
They sell one for maximum Profit, then they sell the next one... and so on.
The Rollback Dupe is a hoax, until someone posts a Video about it i dont believe in it.
Blizzard aint stupid.
Not necessarily true - the Federal Reserve creates hundreds of billions out of thin air every year ("quantitative easing") and the idea is to help the economy.
Quantitative easing is MUCH more complicated than duping in diablo3. hahahaha you shoudn't compare those two. Yes, sometimes printing money can help in VERY specific situation but most of the time, IT IS A VERY BAD idea... but i mean. A very very bad idea....
Someone explain to me how the rollback works. You load your char up with nice items, sell them, give them to friends, call blizzard and say you were hacked and they give you your items back from lets say yesterday?
I understand blizzard doesnt care for things that go through the RMAH since they profit from it... but all this sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?
Clarify please?
ISOLATED;Having minimal contact or little in common with others.
Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.
Okay as much as I enjoy talking to you about this matter, if you routinely searched for 1b+ barb items to upgrade into or resell with groups of people also doing the same thing everyday constantly throughout the day, you would understand what we are seeing.
I have responded to you enough times and it's going nowhere except you citing me definitions of the English language.
good luck to you sir.
edit: there is plenty of evidence out there, it's not hard to see. I'm sure some other ppl who don't want duping to get out of control can help show more evidence for the skeptics.
Your evidence is evidence of something other than what you're implying.
You haven't come out and said it, which I find kinda odd.
You're implying that there is a bonafide method of in-game item duping. I have refuted that innocuous implication quite logically. As in, if this was true, one person could make it quite obvious, let alone the damage several people could do if they knew how to do this.
If this was fact, it would be undeniable. We would be seeing something far more compelling than a smattering of items here and there, in small numbers.
That is what you're implying, correct? That there is an in-game method of duplication being exercised?
A month and half ago the first real signs of "duping" that seemed to be much more than just rollbacks popped up, for those of you who don't know, Rollbacks aren't simply dump your items and tell blizzard your hacked lol, Rollbacks are very rarely granted.
The first real mass signs of an item being duped was in 1.04, when an echoing fury with 1179 dps, str, and lifesteal popped up on the AH, RMAH all at the same time. I believe at one point there was 6-8 on the AH/RMAH. Everyone was talking for a while and it just kind of faded out, people naturally assumed this was some kind of creative rollback abuse by a few people.
A lot of people, myself included did not buy these items even though they were at amazing prices since we knew they were duped. There was some forums posts, etc, etc, nothing really ever came of it and it died out.
Slowly since then there has been more and more duped items trickling into the scene and most recently there has been lots of new sightings of multiple kinds of high-end barb gear, Chests/Bracers/Weapons, who knows what else is out there and has been duped.
Whoever is releasing duped items are being smarter and only putting one up at a time, The thing is even when they sell dupes for $250, there are people sniping that item to re-sell for 1b on GAH, so now it's happening again with these lacunis and this mace, the same thing that happened with the echoing a month or so ago.
My assumption is that this time around they've gotten a little smarter at the whole duping process, they aren't just duping a single item and releasing it in masses (Selling it once every 2-3 days will still make it popup on the GAH/RMAH together if the value of the item is over 500m).
They are instead now duping multiple different items and spacing them out more and looking for new items to dupe.
If all these copies of these items were made because Blizzard is just plain retarded and didn't see that the rollbacks were the same items over and over again, that just makes me think there is even higher of a chance that there is not only duping but duping with rollbacks going on as well.
you realise your only argument of why there is no method to dupe is completely stupid right? Maybe You would be very obvious if you knew the method, but maybe there is people with more than half a brain and a plan out there? Your argument is invalid.
Greed knows no bounds. That is my assertion. That if there was a viable method for duping, we would all be curling in horror as the game's economy saw itself wrecked with great speed. People successfully accomplished this with Gems just weeks ago and it took hours before the market collapsed into the dirt. The issue was apparently rectified, at least on the US end.
Also, could we please discuss this without insulting each others intelligence. There are going to be a wide array of varying opinions on this matter and I don't see cause for stooping to "you iz stoopids" verbiage.
you realise your only argument of why there is no method to dupe is completely stupid right? Maybe You would be very obvious if you knew the method, but maybe there is people with more than half a brain and a plan out there? Your argument is invalid.
Greed knows no bounds. That is my assertion. That if there was a viable method for duping, we would all be curling in horror as the game's economy saw itself wrecked with great speed. People successfully accomplished this with Gems just weeks ago and it took hours before the market collapsed into the dirt. The issue was apparently rectified, at least on the US end.
Also, could we please discuss this without insulting each others intelligence. There are going to be a wide array of varying opinions on this matter and I don't see cause for stooping to "you iz stoopids" verbiage.
Whoever has figured out duping, they are literally sitting on a potentially 1-2k usd per day income, possibly more?
That's a lot of money and incentive to stay quiet and not let items out in a rush like it was done with the echoing furies.
Their only mistake is they don't quiet understand the games economy fully and overplayed it because they should've been duping items that are worth 600m and selling for 500m instead of duping 1b++ items and selling them for 500m.
Otherwise they would've flown under the radar entirely, the problem with the above is that in order to understand the true value of the game's items as it fluctuates is to actually play and understand the game fully, which I assume the dupers are not doing.
OR they could want to make a lot of money and not succumb to the urge of screwing it up stupidly. This hypothesis seems way better to me, and at least can't be dismissed that easily either.
you make a good point, and it sounds valid.
However, I would point out that these methods spread like wildfire when discovered, despite the best efforts of some whom proliferate the practice.
So I would think if some exploit was uncovered, it would get around. Stupid and smart, the restrained and the unrestrained alike would be passing the method on, making mistakes, succumbing to greed.
I cite both human nature and the lack of any serious cause upon the item market as reasons for not fearing a rampant outbreak of duping. Eventually something, some viable exploit will leak and we'll know it. Without any argument, we'll all know it.
At this point it seems premature to concern ourselves beyond just chuckling at a few knuckle heads that may likely get their accounts banned for their greed.
I've addressed every word he has said. Yet I hear crickets.......
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
No. They don't.
They need to keep quiet and solve the issue, as I suspect they are. It would serve no purpose to clarify the issue with you, or any other player.
You are at least the 50th person to bring this up in such an alarmists manner over the last 4 months.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Duped items destroy the game's economy, hence the game.
It's almost like you want this to happen from your replies...
This would make sense if items stopped getting duped a month and half ago, while gems got stopped being duped within a week or two.
Like I said above, I didn't bother saying anything when this first happened months ago. Now that there are duped items all over the place (Multiple "isolated issues"), there is a problem and it needs to be addressed before more and more duped items show up in the AH.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
I thought these were very isolated cases? Now your telling me I'm the 50th person to bring up cases of duping in the last 4 months?
Clarify please?
edit: can post scrshots now
Scrshot of our 2x lacunis + dupers lacuni for sell on AH (time stamp of my desktop on bot right corner)
http://i.imgur.com/2B3Ec.jpg
Scrshot of Dupers lacuni for sale for $250 at same time (time stamp again on bot right corner)
http://i.imgur.com/BCjKb.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
I simply cannot explain this to you any more clear than I have.
If even just three people had figured out how to duplicate items in-game, the situation would fast become undeniable and truly rampant on a pandemic scale.
Just 3 people could literally inundate the market with hundreds, if not thousands, of duplicate items over just one weekend.
The issue is a rollback scam.
Certain smaller scale issues (as the Prowlers you cited) may well just be a double drop bug that has been clearly documented as real. An unpredictable, "lucky" RNG bug.
These are isolated issues and I feel confident in my terminology because the amounts we're seeing are well in-step with what would be expected if a handful of IRL friends set out to roll-back scam Blizzard so that they would make a hefty, yet one time, profit run.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
ISOLATED; Having minimal contact or little in common with others.
Though occurring multiple times, these cases do not share a common point of origin, nor are the culprits related in any way.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
1. Spread rumours of gem duping
2. People panic and sell lower than normal to cash out before prices drop too much.
3. Maket is flooded so prices drop even more.
4. People spreading the initial rumour wait till market hits bottom and buy loads of gems at cut down price.
5. .....
6. Profit
See recent attempt to do the same with brimstone.
People as a whole are stupid.
Okay as much as I enjoy talking to you about this matter, if you routinely searched for 1b+ barb items to upgrade into or resell with groups of people also doing the same thing everyday constantly throughout the day, you would understand what we are seeing.
I have responded to you enough times and it's going nowhere except you citing me definitions of the English language.
good luck to you sir.
edit: there is plenty of evidence out there, it's not hard to see. I'm sure some other ppl who don't want duping to get out of control can help show more evidence for the skeptics.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
This is the most ridiculous explanation for the low gem prices that I've ever seen. And: it doesn't add up. Step 2 would only happen if thousands of people sit on 100 radiant star gems. Even if your theory is true, lots and lots of people would have benefited from this because step 4) is where everyone I know got lots of dirt cheap gems. I'd like to see *any* proof for this theory. Besides, I don't see how just spreading rumors gets prices down to 300k (Asia AH).
Also sure others make a profit, but if done deliberately it is those instating that will make the biggest profits by far, and they aren't going to scream and shout about it.
As I said before people as a whole are stupid, and it only takes a little to start a run on things, see real life.
Your evidence is evidence of something other than what you're implying.
You haven't come out and said it, which I find kinda odd.
You're implying that there is a bonafide method of in-game item duping. I have refuted that innocuous implication quite logically. As in, if this was true, one person could make it quite obvious, let alone the damage several people could do if they knew how to do this.
If this was fact, it would be undeniable. We would be seeing something far more compelling than a smattering of items here and there, in small numbers.
That is what you're implying, correct? That there is an in-game method of duplication being exercised?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Not necessarily true - the Federal Reserve creates hundreds of billions out of thin air every year ("quantitative easing") and the idea is to help the economy.
Actually, its a Bug thats being abused.
And only a Handful people know about it... earning shitloads of Gold and RL Cash.
Thats also the reason why there are only 15-20 Weapons, and not thousands.
They sell one for maximum Profit, then they sell the next one... and so on.
The Rollback Dupe is a hoax, until someone posts a Video about it i dont believe in it.
Blizzard aint stupid.
Quantitative easing is MUCH more complicated than duping in diablo3. hahahaha you shoudn't compare those two. Yes, sometimes printing money can help in VERY specific situation but most of the time, IT IS A VERY BAD idea... but i mean. A very very bad idea....
I understand blizzard doesnt care for things that go through the RMAH since they profit from it... but all this sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.
A month and half ago the first real signs of "duping" that seemed to be much more than just rollbacks popped up, for those of you who don't know, Rollbacks aren't simply dump your items and tell blizzard your hacked lol, Rollbacks are very rarely granted.
The first real mass signs of an item being duped was in 1.04, when an echoing fury with 1179 dps, str, and lifesteal popped up on the AH, RMAH all at the same time. I believe at one point there was 6-8 on the AH/RMAH. Everyone was talking for a while and it just kind of faded out, people naturally assumed this was some kind of creative rollback abuse by a few people.
A lot of people, myself included did not buy these items even though they were at amazing prices since we knew they were duped. There was some forums posts, etc, etc, nothing really ever came of it and it died out.
Slowly since then there has been more and more duped items trickling into the scene and most recently there has been lots of new sightings of multiple kinds of high-end barb gear, Chests/Bracers/Weapons, who knows what else is out there and has been duped.
Whoever is releasing duped items are being smarter and only putting one up at a time, The thing is even when they sell dupes for $250, there are people sniping that item to re-sell for 1b on GAH, so now it's happening again with these lacunis and this mace, the same thing that happened with the echoing a month or so ago.
My assumption is that this time around they've gotten a little smarter at the whole duping process, they aren't just duping a single item and releasing it in masses (Selling it once every 2-3 days will still make it popup on the GAH/RMAH together if the value of the item is over 500m).
They are instead now duping multiple different items and spacing them out more and looking for new items to dupe.
If all these copies of these items were made because Blizzard is just plain retarded and didn't see that the rollbacks were the same items over and over again, that just makes me think there is even higher of a chance that there is not only duping but duping with rollbacks going on as well.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
Greed knows no bounds. That is my assertion. That if there was a viable method for duping, we would all be curling in horror as the game's economy saw itself wrecked with great speed. People successfully accomplished this with Gems just weeks ago and it took hours before the market collapsed into the dirt. The issue was apparently rectified, at least on the US end.
Also, could we please discuss this without insulting each others intelligence. There are going to be a wide array of varying opinions on this matter and I don't see cause for stooping to "you iz stoopids" verbiage.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Whoever has figured out duping, they are literally sitting on a potentially 1-2k usd per day income, possibly more?
That's a lot of money and incentive to stay quiet and not let items out in a rush like it was done with the echoing furies.
Their only mistake is they don't quiet understand the games economy fully and overplayed it because they should've been duping items that are worth 600m and selling for 500m instead of duping 1b++ items and selling them for 500m.
Otherwise they would've flown under the radar entirely, the problem with the above is that in order to understand the true value of the game's items as it fluctuates is to actually play and understand the game fully, which I assume the dupers are not doing.
http://www.youtube.com/mannercookie
http://www.twitch.tv/mannercookie
you make a good point, and it sounds valid.
However, I would point out that these methods spread like wildfire when discovered, despite the best efforts of some whom proliferate the practice.
So I would think if some exploit was uncovered, it would get around. Stupid and smart, the restrained and the unrestrained alike would be passing the method on, making mistakes, succumbing to greed.
I cite both human nature and the lack of any serious cause upon the item market as reasons for not fearing a rampant outbreak of duping. Eventually something, some viable exploit will leak and we'll know it. Without any argument, we'll all know it.
At this point it seems premature to concern ourselves beyond just chuckling at a few knuckle heads that may likely get their accounts banned for their greed.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan