Blizzard's reasons for emphasizing co-op PvE over PvP are clear, and should be well understood by now. I feel it is a serious mistake however, to ignore the significant demand for performance metrics. Players of all skill levels will have a natural desire to measure their performance against that of other players, and my goal here is to offer an alternative to arena pvp that avoids the issue of balance altogether.
The Solution:
What I envision is essentially a team-based game mode that ranks teams based on all kinds of interesting statistics. You jump into Bnet, and create a game with your team members. You then proceed to run the selected D3 quest as a team. The team is then measured on clear times, damage dealt, damage taken, loot/gold earned etc. Your team is then ranked accordingly. You can then compare your team's performance in quest X against the performance of others.
Obstacles:
As I see it, the one serious obstacle to this sort of thing is the random dungeon/encounter element that makes Diablo so replayable. My solution to this is straightforward: create a single "build" for every quest that persists through every team ladder season. Competitive teams will then be able to practice the same dungeons over and over until they achieve surgical efficiency. On the other hand, the randominity could very well be ignored, and teams would have to deal with the random construction of dungeons and encounters as an integral part of the competitive co-op experience.
TL,DR:
A team-based ranked co-op game mode would be a great way to please competitive Diablo players.
I am eager to get some good feedback, and encourage the community to discuss.
-------------------------
I wanted to cross-post this here to see what the diablofans forum feels about this. Personally I think this would be great, and I'm curious as to what blizzards response to this would be. (Maybe you guys can give the bnet thread a bump)
The way I envision it, this would be a totally different game mode, with maybe 10 of the quests from the whole game available. You cue up as a party, then compete to complete the set quest.
Meh I say why not. Not something I would get involved in, but it could be interesting. Maybe not your idea specifically but something to offer people to compete in friendly terms. More options and more stuff to do the better. I really want a horde mode, that is one PvM based thing I can play for a long time.
Players of all skill levels will have a natural desire to measure their performance against that of other players,
Gear.
This is not measuring performance. I dont find comparing gear is satisfying. For 2 reasons: 1, with the auction house, you can just buy it, and 2, there isnt a gear ladder or leader board. Maybe if there was some way to say: "Oh only 3 people on the server have this sword, im pretty cool". Or "i have the best gear on the server". But right now you're getting a competitive fix or satisfaction from comparing your gear to your buddies or the mini percentage of players you hop into games with? Gear is also unsatisfying in that there is a huge luck factor in acquiring it.
Meh I say why not. Not something I would get involved in, but it could be interesting. Maybe not your idea specifically but something to offer people to compete in friendly terms. More options and more stuff to do the better. I really want a horde mode, that is one PvM based thing I can play for a long time.
This is not measuring performance. I dont find comparing gear is satisfying. For 2 reasons: 1, with the auction house, you can just buy it, and 2, there isnt a gear ladder or leader board. Maybe if there was some way to say: "Oh only 3 people on the server have this sword, im pretty cool". Or "i have the best gear on the server". But right now you're getting a competitive fix or satisfaction from comparing your gear to your buddies or the mini percentage of players you hop into games with? Gear is also unsatisfying in that there is a huge luck factor in acquiring it.
but maybe i misunderstood your 1 word response...
If you bought your gear you aren't exactly going to be comparing yourself to others since you know you didn't earn what you're wearing.
If you need to stroke your e-peen by comparing your gear to others you can always be comforted by the fact that if they have better stuff than you it means they likely bought it and don't deserve it. (Since we're stroking e-peens and all, we have to be the best.)
If you only play with your friends then you're not really competing, you're playing together, so yes, jumping into other games and seeing what people have.
Yes, there's luck involved in drops, and there's also time invested. You play longer, you can handle Inferno, you have better gear.
In a game where the ENTIRE point of the game is getting gear, it's probably the best tool of comparison even if you find it unsatisfying.
For example. The method proposed? Teams competing? Teams with better gear will obviously outperform those with worse. Skill can only take you so far.
- i think eventually the outcry for some type of ladder system will become overwhelming, and they will put it in when they realize not everyone is ok with the 'everybody gets a trophy' mentality, and a lot of players will want to see where they rank, for better or for worse. i don't think it even matters what the ladder tracks to be honest; people will vie for most zombies killed just as hard as they did for 1st to 99 in D2. In my opinion it takes almost nothing away from the game, because if you don't care about your ranking... well you don't care.
- i think eventually the outcry for some type of ladder system will become overwhelming, and they will put it in when they realize not everyone is ok with the 'everybody gets a trophy' mentality, and a lot of players will want to see where they rank, for better or for worse.
As sadly enjoying games has changed from having fun, to competing against the internet to be the bestest for so many.
Eventually they'll have arenas and people can stroke their e-peen that way and hopefully inferno will be a challenge enough to where anyone that completes it is boss.
So, I'm sorry.. but no. Blizzard specifically stated that rankings wouldn't be implemented for PvP, why would I want them to implement rankings in co~op? I certainly don't want competitive play in something that is a casual experience meant for people to play at their own pace.
Meh I say why not. Not something I would get involved in, but it could be interesting. Maybe not your idea specifically but something to offer people to compete in friendly terms. More options and more stuff to do the better. I really want a horde mode, that is one PvM based thing I can play for a long time.
A horde mode with very limited healing would be pretty awesome for a Diablo game actually. Never ending streams of monsters and a few people splattering them all over the zone.
Meh I say why not. Not something I would get involved in, but it could be interesting. Maybe not your idea specifically but something to offer people to compete in friendly terms. More options and more stuff to do the better. I really want a horde mode, that is one PvM based thing I can play for a long time.
A horde mode with very limited healing would be pretty awesome for a Diablo game actually. Never ending streams of monsters and a few people splattering them all over the zone.
Yep, add in bosses every 10 levels or so and have them get harder. Maybe allow time after a boss to buy a health globe or a small buff.
Also I would enjoy a DOTA mode with your character as well, could be interesting and fun.
In a game where the ENTIRE point of the game is getting gear, it's probably the best tool of comparison even if you find it unsatisfying.
For example. The method proposed? Teams competing? Teams with better gear will obviously outperform those with worse. Skill can only take you so far.
I agree with what you posted.
With the first point above, I love getting gear, but I'm worried that there is no motivation to get gear besides just having better gear. For example, after you max out your character, and you have a very good if not the absolute best available gear setup, what do you continue to play for? I feel this competitive mode would be great for that.
And yeah, teams with the best gear will do better. Which is why I think this mode would rock, because it gives you something cool to use your gear for.
A team-based ranked co-op game mode would be a great way to please competitive Diablo players.
- Oh you wish.
"The only reason we got bad time is because that stupid barb went on his own."
"plz give ladders for clear time!"
"Omfg, start banning noobs on quest co-op"
"Hey Blizzard that co-op mode is not balanced, fix please"
"Where can I find my clear times?"
"Barb stop wasting time in town with lore or trading."
"Barb lets go, stop wasting time on barrels and urns."
"Omfg, kick these slow newbs who don't know how to play, look at his gear and skills."
"Hey Blizzard, where is my elective mode?"
Those arguments you gave are about as valid as the ones I just gave.
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http://us.battle.net...opic/4796070388
Blizzard's reasons for emphasizing co-op PvE over PvP are clear, and should be well understood by now. I feel it is a serious mistake however, to ignore the significant demand for performance metrics. Players of all skill levels will have a natural desire to measure their performance against that of other players, and my goal here is to offer an alternative to arena pvp that avoids the issue of balance altogether.
The Solution:
What I envision is essentially a team-based game mode that ranks teams based on all kinds of interesting statistics. You jump into Bnet, and create a game with your team members. You then proceed to run the selected D3 quest as a team. The team is then measured on clear times, damage dealt, damage taken, loot/gold earned etc. Your team is then ranked accordingly. You can then compare your team's performance in quest X against the performance of others.
Obstacles:
As I see it, the one serious obstacle to this sort of thing is the random dungeon/encounter element that makes Diablo so replayable. My solution to this is straightforward: create a single "build" for every quest that persists through every team ladder season. Competitive teams will then be able to practice the same dungeons over and over until they achieve surgical efficiency. On the other hand, the randominity could very well be ignored, and teams would have to deal with the random construction of dungeons and encounters as an integral part of the competitive co-op experience.
TL,DR:
A team-based ranked co-op game mode would be a great way to please competitive Diablo players.
I am eager to get some good feedback, and encourage the community to discuss.
-------------------------
I wanted to cross-post this here to see what the diablofans forum feels about this. Personally I think this would be great, and I'm curious as to what blizzards response to this would be. (Maybe you guys can give the bnet thread a bump)
The way I envision it, this would be a totally different game mode, with maybe 10 of the quests from the whole game available. You cue up as a party, then compete to complete the set quest.
Gear.
This is not measuring performance. I dont find comparing gear is satisfying. For 2 reasons: 1, with the auction house, you can just buy it, and 2, there isnt a gear ladder or leader board. Maybe if there was some way to say: "Oh only 3 people on the server have this sword, im pretty cool". Or "i have the best gear on the server". But right now you're getting a competitive fix or satisfaction from comparing your gear to your buddies or the mini percentage of players you hop into games with? Gear is also unsatisfying in that there is a huge luck factor in acquiring it.
but maybe i misunderstood your 1 word response...
A horde mode would be a ton of fun i agree.
If you bought your gear you aren't exactly going to be comparing yourself to others since you know you didn't earn what you're wearing.
If you need to stroke your e-peen by comparing your gear to others you can always be comforted by the fact that if they have better stuff than you it means they likely bought it and don't deserve it. (Since we're stroking e-peens and all, we have to be the best.)
If you only play with your friends then you're not really competing, you're playing together, so yes, jumping into other games and seeing what people have.
Yes, there's luck involved in drops, and there's also time invested. You play longer, you can handle Inferno, you have better gear.
In a game where the ENTIRE point of the game is getting gear, it's probably the best tool of comparison even if you find it unsatisfying.
For example. The method proposed? Teams competing? Teams with better gear will obviously outperform those with worse. Skill can only take you so far.
- i think eventually the outcry for some type of ladder system will become overwhelming, and they will put it in when they realize not everyone is ok with the 'everybody gets a trophy' mentality, and a lot of players will want to see where they rank, for better or for worse. i don't think it even matters what the ladder tracks to be honest; people will vie for most zombies killed just as hard as they did for 1st to 99 in D2. In my opinion it takes almost nothing away from the game, because if you don't care about your ranking... well you don't care.
No other way.
As sadly enjoying games has changed from having fun, to competing against the internet to be the bestest for so many.
We can wish cant we.
Also I would enjoy a DOTA mode with your character as well, could be interesting and fun.
I agree with what you posted.
With the first point above, I love getting gear, but I'm worried that there is no motivation to get gear besides just having better gear. For example, after you max out your character, and you have a very good if not the absolute best available gear setup, what do you continue to play for? I feel this competitive mode would be great for that.
And yeah, teams with the best gear will do better. Which is why I think this mode would rock, because it gives you something cool to use your gear for.
"Barb lets go, stop wasting time on barrels and urns."
"Omfg, kick these slow newbs who don't know how to play, look at his gear and skills."
"Hey Blizzard, where is my elective mode?"
Those arguments you gave are about as valid as the ones I just gave.