When asked about the anti-cheat issue, Blizzard always responds: "We have the best anti-cheat technology in the world, Warden, which is developed by our security people."
In other words, the D3 design team has not stated any specific goal of making a game that is not so easy to hack.
What is the Warden?
the Warden monitors program and process activity on the host computer, and it sends usage data and some desktop information (known to include at least the header of each open window) back to Blizzard's servers over the Internet.
Now, anyone with a background in computer security knows that this is not an effective catch-all solution to hacks. It's sort of like the approach we take to viruses: wait until we get attacked, see if we can figure out what binary instructions looked like in the attacking program, and then check all programs against that list and see if we can find a match to stop it next time. It's similar to the antibody system used in the human body.
But what do we know about antibodies? Well, we can still get sick with the flu for one thing. That's because it's a post-corrective strategy as opposed to a pre-emptive strategy.
Anyone with knowledge of computer security can tell you that it's literally impossible to prevent cheating on non-networked single player game. That's why every piece of software that gets produced, no matter how good the DRM is, it can still get cracked.
However, when the data is stored on the game server, it does become possible to prevent cheating from the user side -- unless you literally hack into the Blizzard servers, which are presumably very secure.
The real security in online enabled games comes from the ability of the server to provide you on a need-to-know basis. Now the most popular D2 hack that we all know about is the Map Hack. This exists because the way the game operates is it sends your computer the ENTIRE map first, and then the game hides it in memory and reveals it to you bit by bit as you explore. Obviously, once the server has sent that information to you, anyone can hack into the memory of their own computer and extract the map data.
They could easily eliminate map hacks by providing map-data on a need-to-know basis. The server knows exactly where your character is located, and it could send you updates on what is visible to you whenever you move. Blizzard doesn't do this because it requires more network bandwidth for both parties, and they obviously don't consider it an important issue.
However, it might have been more wise to take a compromise and send the map in chunks or something, that way at least you cant hack the ENTIRE map at once.
As for things like item duping, Blizzard has no excuse whatsoever for allowing duping to be physically possible. It is entirely within their control to make it mathematically impossible to dupe items by the way they design their game's network protocol, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Warden. Because, as I explained before, Warden is something that looks for hacks on your computer and tries to disable them. That is completely different from designing a secure transactional system for online play.
What I'm trying to say is that, if they really care about stopping cheating, the game's network designers need to take this issue into their own hands instead of just saying, "oh, well...we have warden, so its ok to make a game that can be hacked."
The mentality is slightly wrong here. I completely agree that cheating should be dealt with (and punished), but it can be dealt with on a personal level by simply playing with people you know. I am still unsure as to why people insist on playing with strangers. Even if I have no friends in the area to play with, I get to know people online, form alliances/clans, and have fun with the same group of people.
I think the anti-hacking will be a lot better, I haven't heard of any problems with WoW and I'm sure that D2 being an old game is the reason for the limited security.
The mentality is slightly wrong here. I completely agree that cheating should be dealt with (and punished), but it can be dealt with on a personal level by simply playing with people you know. I am still unsure as to why people insist on playing with strangers. Even if I have no friends in the area to play with, I get to know people online, form alliances/clans, and have fun with the same group of people.
Personally I feel weird about getting involved in any kind of a game relationship like that, where other gamers know who you are. It represents a level of commitment to the game that is unhealthy in my opinion. I didn't take it that seriously. Sit down, play for a while...maybe meet someone and explore with them, and then wipe your hands clean. I think I may have had a couple people on my friends list who would help each other out with a transfer now and then, but that's about it.
I think Diablo attracts a lot of more relaxed gamers like me because its so fast paced and so easy to sit down and play for just 5 minutes. A game like WoW you cant sit down and play for 5 minutes and get anything done, so if you know you dont want to play for 5 hours, you dont even start. With Diablo, you think...I'll just play for 5 minutes...and then maybe you get sucked in for 5 hours...but you didn't plan for it :/
Personally I feel weird about getting involved in any kind of a game relationship like that, where other gamers know who you are. It represents a level of commitment to the game that is unhealthy in my opinion. I didn't take it that seriously. Sit down, play for a while...maybe meet someone and explore with them, and then wipe your hands clean. I think I may have had a couple people on my friends list who would help each other out with a transfer now and then, but that's about it.
I think Diablo attracts a lot of more relaxed gamers like me because its so fast paced and so easy to sit down and play for just 5 minutes. A game like WoW you cant sit down and play for 5 minutes and get anything done, so if you know you dont want to play for 5 hours, you dont even start. With Diablo, you think...I'll just play for 5 minutes...and then maybe you get sucked in for 5 hours...but you didn't plan for it :/
LOL! I don't recommend swapping real names, social security numbers, phone numbers, and home addresses. I'm talking about just chat relationships.
they say warden is a good anti cheat but why then is the kick after x ammount of games per hour system still in place? that sounds like a poor excuse for bot monitoring and it makes me mad because i dont bot or hack and i gotta wait for temp bans when i play a lot of games or am trying to transfer to a lot of different characters
i agree that there must be stringent anti cheating measures for d3 to be enjoyable in the long term.
i love d2 so much yet cannot bring myself to play it anymore due to the amount of cheating that exists and is seemingly permitted;
just seeing it in it's current and deformed state is hard for me: d2 is currently completely ravaged by hacks and it's my favorite game. (it's like seeing an old friend or lover lying in the gutter high on meth and trying to prostitute him/herself .. lol)
for me, cheating on diablo is its one downfall. i'd play it to infinity if they only maintained bnet and banned the cheaters consistently
i do have a bit of hope though now that blizzard seems to be taking a more aggressive stance towards mods on WoW
i know there will be hacks for d3, i just hope that they can police it with enough force and success to preserve a fair atmosphere.
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they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
This is why I am upset that Blizzard removed LAN play from the game. Battle.net had cheaters, jerks, and slow connections at times. LAN play overcame all of that. I loved playing with real friends in the same room.
Cheating is only a big issue for those who think it is and for people who use cheats. Let's be frank now, every game out there as some form of cheating and it doesn't effect the gameplay that much for everyone. There are people who use them and those who don't. Play the game, if you want to use cheats go right ahead, but be prepared to suffer the consequences.
For the record, not many cheats exist for WOW unless you count the addons. I expect the same treatment for D3.
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I like the life I lived, because I went from negative to positive.
You know very well who you are, don't let them hold you down, reach for the stars.
I think they should SIT HARD on hackers. I mean I wish they would come clean up D2. Any redved/ maphackers get the BAN!! Fc'ers GET THE BAN dupers GET THE BAN. All third party programs GET THE BAN! That would make d2 SO MUCH BETTER!!
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
This is why I am upset that Blizzard removed LAN play from the game. Battle.net had cheaters, jerks, and slow connections at times. LAN play overcame all of that. I loved playing with real friends in the same room.
RIP LAN
Coincidentally, removing server-side code from the client (in other words, removing LAN support) will assure significant level of safety from exploits and cheats.
Another thing is the new system Blizzard has been enforcing since one of the latest WoW patches. It asks the user to agree to have them (Blizzard employees) scan your computer for files and processes. It sounds intrusive but I support the move wholeheartedly. WoW is the most well anti-cheat protected game in the world, and they can very well use the same system for D3.
On another note, and related to the OP, obviously D2 has been so prone to exploits due to the poor net-coding and net-optimization for one, and the fact that they included server-side code with the client as I mentioned for two. It has absolutely nothing to do with their protection software. They would have to redesign D2 netcode from scratch if they wanted to change how things are right now.
Well, the anti cheat is the most important thing to me.. When somebody get a hack or a trainer to make something illegal for the game and have unlimited gold/nice weapons/killing faster/attrib's full.. Then there's nothing to continue playing the game for!.. And it comes so boring than a fair game which more fun and challenged...
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Your promises.. They look like lies.. Your honesty’s Like a back that hides a knife..."
I hope they totally remove hacks from D3. I would seriouisly laugh so hard if they came and banned all the people usin revex and all those plugins like tele walk and auto tp and fc. I would laugh so dang hard but it would be lonley for a while
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Come on guys, you wouldn't like to see hacks in D3 one day. I used to get a kick out of seeing people run around in Diablo 2 with a bunch of glowing armor and a few new skills that made me stare at the screen. I can understand why you wouldn't want to see hacks introduced in Diablo 3 after the first few months of it's release, but I'm talking years down the road here.
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I like the life I lived, because I went from negative to positive.
You know very well who you are, don't let them hold you down, reach for the stars.
Come on guys, you wouldn't like to see hacks in D3 one day. I used to get a kick out of seeing people run around in Diablo 2 with a bunch of glowing armor and a few new skills that made me stare at the screen. I can understand why you wouldn't want to see hacks introduced in Diablo 3 after the first few months of it's release, but I'm talking years down the road here.
Hacks are bad mmmkay. Using hacks violates blizzards terms of agreement mmmkay. I think blizzard should sit hard on hackers mmmkay. They should make a new patch that bans all hacks in diablo2 mmmkay, I would laugh my ass off becsoue I would probably be the onl one left for a while mmmkay. Hacks are bad mmmkay.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Come on guys, you wouldn't like to see hacks in D3 one day. I used to get a kick out of seeing people run around in Diablo 2 with a bunch of glowing armor and a few new skills that made me stare at the screen. I can understand why you wouldn't want to see hacks introduced in Diablo 3 after the first few months of it's release, but I'm talking years down the road here.
Just because you got bored with the game doesn't mean everyone else does. Hacks ruin the game for everyone else.
unfortunatly i belive there will always be bugs and cheats (trainers) so on, on internet games. Diablo is no exception.... sadly :/
I belive Warden will be banning hacks left and right, The onyl thing WoW suffers is pirate servers to hack on. There are no hacks on the normal servers so I think D3 will most lilkey be hack free YAY
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
sounded like diablo fenatic was talking about open (where whites and new skills were possible) i never saw new skills on closed
they can't be expected to control the hacks on singleplayer or open if it exists and i don't think anyone expected singleplayer/open to be hack free so whatever that's a different story
closed however should be policed to the highest standard because cheating is the biggest downfall of d2 and it could easily ruin d3 in my eyes
for every goal you could have in d2 there is a hack to facilitate it
pvp/dueling -> autoaim, farcast, chicken
getting the best items/ruins in game -> mh, mf bots
leveling to high lvl -> mh, autoteleport, chicken, follow bots, baal bots
buying hard to find items from vendors -> shopbot
getting items in public games -> pickit
finding annihilous charms -> ip finder
etc etc etc
for every goal the legit player has, there's someone else with a hack that's making it easier or faster for the illegitimate player to achieve that goal
it devalues the time of the legit player. why even play? what's the point if it takes you 700x more effort to achieve the same goal it's very demoralizing and frustrating.
and if there aren't even any consequences for the cheating (as seems to be the case on d2 now) it just makes it all the more upsetting.
anyway my greatest hope for d3 is that they have and enforce anticheating policies. (but if there's an open i wouldn't mind if people use mods or hacks on there)
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they'll never see me coming.. life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
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map hack slapped the randomized areas/dungeons in the face
gold hack allowed people to gamble hundreds of rares an hour
bots take advantage of the non random areas housing rare bosses
dupe progs/lag dupes devastated early ladder economies and put the wealth in the hands of very few individuals.
hopefully theyre actively developing anti cheat as they develop content
source:http://www.diii.net/blog/comments/blizzcon-2008-diablo-iii-to-use-warden-no-drm/
When asked about the anti-cheat issue, Blizzard always responds: "We have the best anti-cheat technology in the world, Warden, which is developed by our security people."
In other words, the D3 design team has not stated any specific goal of making a game that is not so easy to hack.
What is the Warden?
Now, anyone with a background in computer security knows that this is not an effective catch-all solution to hacks. It's sort of like the approach we take to viruses: wait until we get attacked, see if we can figure out what binary instructions looked like in the attacking program, and then check all programs against that list and see if we can find a match to stop it next time. It's similar to the antibody system used in the human body.
But what do we know about antibodies? Well, we can still get sick with the flu for one thing. That's because it's a post-corrective strategy as opposed to a pre-emptive strategy.
Anyone with knowledge of computer security can tell you that it's literally impossible to prevent cheating on non-networked single player game. That's why every piece of software that gets produced, no matter how good the DRM is, it can still get cracked.
However, when the data is stored on the game server, it does become possible to prevent cheating from the user side -- unless you literally hack into the Blizzard servers, which are presumably very secure.
The real security in online enabled games comes from the ability of the server to provide you on a need-to-know basis. Now the most popular D2 hack that we all know about is the Map Hack. This exists because the way the game operates is it sends your computer the ENTIRE map first, and then the game hides it in memory and reveals it to you bit by bit as you explore. Obviously, once the server has sent that information to you, anyone can hack into the memory of their own computer and extract the map data.
They could easily eliminate map hacks by providing map-data on a need-to-know basis. The server knows exactly where your character is located, and it could send you updates on what is visible to you whenever you move. Blizzard doesn't do this because it requires more network bandwidth for both parties, and they obviously don't consider it an important issue.
However, it might have been more wise to take a compromise and send the map in chunks or something, that way at least you cant hack the ENTIRE map at once.
As for things like item duping, Blizzard has no excuse whatsoever for allowing duping to be physically possible. It is entirely within their control to make it mathematically impossible to dupe items by the way they design their game's network protocol, and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with Warden. Because, as I explained before, Warden is something that looks for hacks on your computer and tries to disable them. That is completely different from designing a secure transactional system for online play.
What I'm trying to say is that, if they really care about stopping cheating, the game's network designers need to take this issue into their own hands instead of just saying, "oh, well...we have warden, so its ok to make a game that can be hacked."
These types of server crash/rollback cheats COULD be made totally impossible:
http://www.d2freedom.com/diablo-dupe.html#prodigyonedupe
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
Personally I feel weird about getting involved in any kind of a game relationship like that, where other gamers know who you are. It represents a level of commitment to the game that is unhealthy in my opinion. I didn't take it that seriously. Sit down, play for a while...maybe meet someone and explore with them, and then wipe your hands clean. I think I may have had a couple people on my friends list who would help each other out with a transfer now and then, but that's about it.
I think Diablo attracts a lot of more relaxed gamers like me because its so fast paced and so easy to sit down and play for just 5 minutes. A game like WoW you cant sit down and play for 5 minutes and get anything done, so if you know you dont want to play for 5 hours, you dont even start. With Diablo, you think...I'll just play for 5 minutes...and then maybe you get sucked in for 5 hours...but you didn't plan for it :/
LOL! I don't recommend swapping real names, social security numbers, phone numbers, and home addresses. I'm talking about just chat relationships.
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
i love d2 so much yet cannot bring myself to play it anymore due to the amount of cheating that exists and is seemingly permitted;
just seeing it in it's current and deformed state is hard for me: d2 is currently completely ravaged by hacks and it's my favorite game. (it's like seeing an old friend or lover lying in the gutter high on meth and trying to prostitute him/herself .. lol)
for me, cheating on diablo is its one downfall. i'd play it to infinity if they only maintained bnet and banned the cheaters consistently
i do have a bit of hope though now that blizzard seems to be taking a more aggressive stance towards mods on WoW
i know there will be hacks for d3, i just hope that they can police it with enough force and success to preserve a fair atmosphere.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
RIP LAN
http://www.petitiononline.com/LANSC2/petition.html
For the record, not many cheats exist for WOW unless you count the addons. I expect the same treatment for D3.
To find the truth, you must risk everything.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Another thing is the new system Blizzard has been enforcing since one of the latest WoW patches. It asks the user to agree to have them (Blizzard employees) scan your computer for files and processes. It sounds intrusive but I support the move wholeheartedly. WoW is the most well anti-cheat protected game in the world, and they can very well use the same system for D3.
On another note, and related to the OP, obviously D2 has been so prone to exploits due to the poor net-coding and net-optimization for one, and the fact that they included server-side code with the client as I mentioned for two. It has absolutely nothing to do with their protection software. They would have to redesign D2 netcode from scratch if they wanted to change how things are right now.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
To find the truth, you must risk everything.
Hacks are bad mmmkay. Using hacks violates blizzards terms of agreement mmmkay. I think blizzard should sit hard on hackers mmmkay. They should make a new patch that bans all hacks in diablo2 mmmkay, I would laugh my ass off becsoue I would probably be the onl one left for a while mmmkay. Hacks are bad mmmkay.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
Just because you got bored with the game doesn't mean everyone else does. Hacks ruin the game for everyone else.
I belive Warden will be banning hacks left and right, The onyl thing WoW suffers is pirate servers to hack on. There are no hacks on the normal servers so I think D3 will most lilkey be hack free YAY
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
they can't be expected to control the hacks on singleplayer or open if it exists and i don't think anyone expected singleplayer/open to be hack free so whatever that's a different story
closed however should be policed to the highest standard because cheating is the biggest downfall of d2 and it could easily ruin d3 in my eyes
for every goal you could have in d2 there is a hack to facilitate it
pvp/dueling -> autoaim, farcast, chicken
getting the best items/ruins in game -> mh, mf bots
leveling to high lvl -> mh, autoteleport, chicken, follow bots, baal bots
buying hard to find items from vendors -> shopbot
getting items in public games -> pickit
finding annihilous charms -> ip finder
etc etc etc
for every goal the legit player has, there's someone else with a hack that's making it easier or faster for the illegitimate player to achieve that goal
it devalues the time of the legit player. why even play? what's the point if it takes you 700x more effort to achieve the same goal it's very demoralizing and frustrating.
and if there aren't even any consequences for the cheating (as seems to be the case on d2 now) it just makes it all the more upsetting.
anyway my greatest hope for d3 is that they have and enforce anticheating policies. (but if there's an open i wouldn't mind if people use mods or hacks on there)
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.