Just got my wizard to 60 yesterday. I decided to go with an archon build.. or so I thought.
Was playing with a group yesterday and a DH was asking about how I was able to kill stuff so fast in archon form. Another guy said I was using an archon build. Well they talked back and forth for a bit while I was busy killing everything on the screen for them and my archon ran out.. so I started to perma freeze groups while hitting with my shock pulse lightning guys until Archon was back up. The second guy said what I was playing was another build .. different from Archon.
I thought the Archon spec and the perma freeze spec were both the same but I guess they are not?
And before you say it... I just hit 60 yesterday and literally spent 8 million gold for everything listed there. I wanted 60+ gear in every slot so I went cheap. I'll worry about getting real gear later. Barb on my account is my main and has the good stuff.
You're running the classic Hybrid-Archon build, that our good friend Jaetch made a video some time ago:
By the way, nice Archon. Remember me my old Wiz days.
EDIT: I would do 2 minor changes:
1) Change the armor to Storm Armor / Thunder Storm (more damage) or Scramble (more movement speed).
2) Change the weapon to a black weapon. See the video (on Youtube, not embedded) to check what a black weapon is. This little change on weapon could net you 17k DPS.
1) answer to your question is : you are playing an ARCHON build. Permafreeze build doesn't even remotely look like your spec. And honestly, I would be extremely surprised that you actually "permafreeze" with your spec... Freeze a lot, yes. Perma freeze ? Nah. I didn't permafreeze with a proper CMWW build until I got above 2.501 APS. No way you could really do it with the spec you use.
You're right I do freeze a lot but with 50% crit buffed and the lighting guys doing multiple hits really fast, most of the time I can perma freeze as long as I'm attacking more than one mob. Attacking one mob it's more like freeze, they are out of freeze for maybe a second, then I can freeze again.
2) 2 cts piece of advise : get rid of Glass Cannon. Replace with Cold Blooded, buy any QUICK BOW (or XBow) that does have Cold Damage (best is the usual Buriza) and give it to your scoundrel (bow DPS does NOT MATTER AT ALL : a 10 DPS bow is perfectly enough as long as it has cold damage and is quick to shoot). Don't spec his first talent (to guarantee he will only multi shot all the time) and you get not 15% damage bonus, but 20% (not even mentioning you do NOT have the reduced defenses coming with Glass Cannon) => Win (5% moaaar DPS) -Win (10% moaaar All Resist)
I mainly play in multiplayer for the added XP bonus so I won't have the scoundrel out. You still think cold blooded is better without the scoundrel?
Glass Cannon is fine. Almost all Archons run it at higher gear levels, and most of us run with CB also. For group play, CB probably isn't worthwhile, so either keep Galv Ward so you only have to drop out of Archon every 4 min, or use Blur for extra survivability.
Thanks for all the info, from everyone. Made the wizard on August 30th, got to lvl 60 on Sept 2nd. Was fun leveling every 10 minutes while I was playing. Didn't even play that much really.
Archon spec is really more broken than WW barb is. I thought WW barb was the ultimate cheese play.. which is why my barb is WW barb because it made everything easier. But Archon is a step beyond that. Once I get real gear, I can see myself going beyond what my barb can do.
Archon spec is really more broken than WW barb is. I thought WW barb was the ultimate cheese play.. which is why my barb is WW barb because it made everything easier. But Archon is a step beyond that. Once I get real gear, I can see myself going beyond what my barb can do.
Oh, you sir, are still quite new to this and very, very naive.
Once you get to high levels you'll only wish you can freely run around in circles without worrying about jailer, frozen, knockback, nightmare, having 4x sources of life steal, 30% innate damage reduction, and also access to all your active skills, including mobility skills like Sprint and Whirlwind.
Archon? Unless you run the Teleport rune or Scramble Storm Armor, you don't get mobility. The former sacrifices a ton of DPS and the latter sacrifices both DPS and EHP if you normally run Pinpoint Armor. No anti-crowd control, one main source of life steal (weapon), must stand and channel to deal maximum DPS.
Broken? Perhaps. More broken than WW barb? I would wholeheartedly say...
What Jaetch said, the only advantage that I find in archon is that I can refresh my cool-down really quickly with crit mass, where as, if you end WOTB early you have to wait. Also, Archon does not require juggling of fury. A barb being able to ignore stuns, jailers, frozen etc the entire duration of a fight is just way too overpowered.
Other than that my barb at paragon 60 is ridiculously powerful for the tiny amount I spent on her gear. It took me forever to afford gear to do MP 8 for my wiz. For my barb, I bought it for a fraction of the cost and she dies much much less than my wizard used to.
It's funny if I went to the barb forums, they would say the most efficient class is an archon wizard.
I see this as "keep your eyes off my class and look at him" game.
Actually my opinion about this is because Barbs are limited to the 15 sec limit on duration of Wrath of the Berserker, while Archon can stack more than 15 sec of duration. So, although Barbs are easier to play, easier to gear, receive less damage and do more damage, they are jealous of Archons because we can have bigger... er... duration ? Beams ? Purpleness ?
I don't know. I think they are Jealous because we look so more awesome than them while on "semi-god-purple-ball-of-death" mode. They get uglier. We have the WOW effect.
EDIT: And our lady wizards are way prettier than that ugly barb wenches.
Archon is very expensive if you want to farm high MP's properly, the most efficient class is still a barb..
Or a properly geared SleetStormer. Or a CoB WD.
SNS >> SS for MP10 efficiency as a wizard. SS is still a lot better than Archon at top MP and under gear budget though, but it's just not as good as SNS. To me it's like this:
Low MP: Archon > SS > SNS
Mid MP: Archon = SS = SNS
MP 10: SNS > SS > Archon (under 5bil budget or so)
in terms of efficiency. That's not comparing xp or leg per hour efficiency of low MP archon vs high mp sns, like MP5 Archon vs MP10 SNS. That's just comparing at the same MP. That's also assuming you don't have like 10s of billions worth of gear, otherwise Archon likely beats out SS and gives SNS a good run for its money.
@Loroese: Agreed, agreed and agreed. I'm just in love at the moment with SleetStorm, and I like to remember other players that this is a viable and not-so-expensive build for higher MP's.
@MangoMelone, maybe prices in Europe differ a lot from USA ? I'm not Justifying, but on US AH the barb gear is way cheaper than wiz gear, on mid/mid-high tier. Top tier gear is expensive everywhere, though.
@Loroese: Agreed, agreed and agreed. I'm just in love at the moment with SleetStorm, and I like to remember other players that this is a viable and not-so-expensive build for higher MP's.
I hear ya. Poor SS doesn't get a lot of credit on these forums, though it's a bit more popular on the official forums. I freely admit that it's one of the few viable MP10 builds, and by viable I mean you don't need 100 bil in gear to make it work. With enough gear any build can be viable, in theory.
I keep trying to slip in comments of my Arcane mines build. I happen to think it's 2nd only to SNS for group play, since it has the potential to out dps any other wizard build we have.
About that arcane mines build. I could be mistaken here, but is there a maximum on the number of mines that can be active at the same times? When tossing mines at 2.6 AS it appears as if they despawn when i cast #6
And as for the Sleetstorm. How do people manage to keep their arcane power up? Even with 27 AP on crit and 47% crit chance I'd run out against anything below 4 targets.
I keep trying to slip in comments of my Arcane mines build...
Sleet Storm and Arcane Mines are the "Black Sheep" of wizard builds... Nobody talks to much of them, but they are incredible powerful and low on requirements, if compared to high-MP Archon and SNS. And both are easy on the hands/wrists.
I play Arcane Mines sometimes when paired with another Wiz friend of mine, and I like it. But the other guy complais a lot about the delay of the mines, because he kills the mobs faster than 2 seconds :P. So, I get behind.
But I like hybrid builds. I'll try to squeeze the mines into my current setup, or squeeze Sleet Storm into the mines setup.
About that arcane mines build. I could be mistaken here, but is there a maximum on the number of mines that can be active at the same times? When tossing mines at 2.6 AS it appears as if they despawn when i cast #6
And as for the Sleetstorm. How do people manage to keep their arcane power up? Even with 27 AP on crit and 47% crit chance I'd run out against anything below 4 targets.
As mentioned in my guide, you can only have 6 mines out at a time. Any casts after that replace existing mines, which means you can't spam the skill if your APS is above 1.904.
SS depends on your APS. I'm betting your APS is pretty high, and higher APS means higher AP consumption. For the most part SS requires a different gearing approach than SNS. You want low APS and high CC+CD+int+ave damage to raise dps high. That will maximize your dps potential and sustainability.
That gearing is the general strategy for most builds that utilize AP spenders, besides CMWW, though some meteor builds are the exception. Some people make good use out of a Skorn with just 10 APoC and virtually no IAS except for belt and maybe chest. Others use just 20 ApoC to get higher char sheet dps from 1h+OH.
I play Arcane Mines sometimes when paired with another Wiz friend of mine, and I like it. But the other guy complais a lot about the delay of the mines, because he kills the mobs faster than 2 seconds :P. So, I get behind.
This is actually my problem with any Arcane Mines based build. With the people I usually run with in co-op games, we melt things so fast that virtually no mines have the chance to explode before the mobs are wiped out. Their only chance to shine come against elites, but even those are gone in 10 seconds or so, and really I can only cycle through one or two full waves of mines before I'm back to... well, not doing much. That's why I just stick to Archon and the instant/consistent burst damage.
^^ I laughed hard here now. That's exactly what happens, although elites takes longer than 10~15 seconds for us. That's just silly to run around chasing dead mobs and doing nothing while your partners take all the fun.
Was playing with a group yesterday and a DH was asking about how I was able to kill stuff so fast in archon form. Another guy said I was using an archon build. Well they talked back and forth for a bit while I was busy killing everything on the screen for them and my archon ran out.. so I started to perma freeze groups while hitting with my shock pulse lightning guys until Archon was back up. The second guy said what I was playing was another build .. different from Archon.
I thought the Archon spec and the perma freeze spec were both the same but I guess they are not?
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Bodycount-1239/hero/2666470
Which spec am I playing? I'm confused now.
And before you say it... I just hit 60 yesterday and literally spent 8 million gold for everything listed there. I wanted 60+ gear in every slot so I went cheap. I'll worry about getting real gear later. Barb on my account is my main and has the good stuff.
By the way, nice Archon. Remember me my old Wiz days.
EDIT: I would do 2 minor changes:
1) Change the armor to Storm Armor / Thunder Storm (more damage) or Scramble (more movement speed).
2) Change the weapon to a black weapon. See the video (on Youtube, not embedded) to check what a black weapon is. This little change on weapon could net you 17k DPS.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
You're right I do freeze a lot but with 50% crit buffed and the lighting guys doing multiple hits really fast, most of the time I can perma freeze as long as I'm attacking more than one mob. Attacking one mob it's more like freeze, they are out of freeze for maybe a second, then I can freeze again.
I mainly play in multiplayer for the added XP bonus so I won't have the scoundrel out. You still think cold blooded is better without the scoundrel?
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Archon spec is really more broken than WW barb is. I thought WW barb was the ultimate cheese play.. which is why my barb is WW barb because it made everything easier. But Archon is a step beyond that. Once I get real gear, I can see myself going beyond what my barb can do.
Once you get to high levels you'll only wish you can freely run around in circles without worrying about jailer, frozen, knockback, nightmare, having 4x sources of life steal, 30% innate damage reduction, and also access to all your active skills, including mobility skills like Sprint and Whirlwind.
Archon? Unless you run the Teleport rune or Scramble Storm Armor, you don't get mobility. The former sacrifices a ton of DPS and the latter sacrifices both DPS and EHP if you normally run Pinpoint Armor. No anti-crowd control, one main source of life steal (weapon), must stand and channel to deal maximum DPS.
Broken? Perhaps. More broken than WW barb? I would wholeheartedly say...
Not even close.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
Other than that my barb at paragon 60 is ridiculously powerful for the tiny amount I spent on her gear. It took me forever to afford gear to do MP 8 for my wiz. For my barb, I bought it for a fraction of the cost and she dies much much less than my wizard used to.
Or a properly geared SleetStormer. Or a CoB WD.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
I see this as "keep your eyes off my class and look at him" game.
Actually my opinion about this is because Barbs are limited to the 15 sec limit on duration of Wrath of the Berserker, while Archon can stack more than 15 sec of duration. So, although Barbs are easier to play, easier to gear, receive less damage and do more damage, they are jealous of Archons because we can have bigger... er... duration ? Beams ? Purpleness ?
I don't know. I think they are Jealous because we look so more awesome than them while on "semi-god-purple-ball-of-death" mode. They get uglier. We have the WOW effect.
EDIT: And our lady wizards are way prettier than that ugly barb wenches.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
SNS >> SS for MP10 efficiency as a wizard. SS is still a lot better than Archon at top MP and under gear budget though, but it's just not as good as SNS. To me it's like this:
Low MP: Archon > SS > SNS
Mid MP: Archon = SS = SNS
MP 10: SNS > SS > Archon (under 5bil budget or so)
in terms of efficiency. That's not comparing xp or leg per hour efficiency of low MP archon vs high mp sns, like MP5 Archon vs MP10 SNS. That's just comparing at the same MP. That's also assuming you don't have like 10s of billions worth of gear, otherwise Archon likely beats out SS and gives SNS a good run for its money.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
@MangoMelone, maybe prices in Europe differ a lot from USA ? I'm not Justifying, but on US AH the barb gear is way cheaper than wiz gear, on mid/mid-high tier. Top tier gear is expensive everywhere, though.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
The barb is the most efficient, there's no debating it. I net around 180m/hour solo, no class comes close to that.
I hear ya. Poor SS doesn't get a lot of credit on these forums, though it's a bit more popular on the official forums. I freely admit that it's one of the few viable MP10 builds, and by viable I mean you don't need 100 bil in gear to make it work. With enough gear any build can be viable, in theory.
I keep trying to slip in comments of my Arcane mines build. I happen to think it's 2nd only to SNS for group play, since it has the potential to out dps any other wizard build we have.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
And as for the Sleetstorm. How do people manage to keep their arcane power up? Even with 27 AP on crit and 47% crit chance I'd run out against anything below 4 targets.
Sleet Storm and Arcane Mines are the "Black Sheep" of wizard builds... Nobody talks to much of them, but they are incredible powerful and low on requirements, if compared to high-MP Archon and SNS. And both are easy on the hands/wrists.
I play Arcane Mines sometimes when paired with another Wiz friend of mine, and I like it. But the other guy complais a lot about the delay of the mines, because he kills the mobs faster than 2 seconds :P. So, I get behind.
But I like hybrid builds. I'll try to squeeze the mines into my current setup, or squeeze Sleet Storm into the mines setup.
Wizard | Demon Hunter
As mentioned in my guide, you can only have 6 mines out at a time. Any casts after that replace existing mines, which means you can't spam the skill if your APS is above 1.904.
SS depends on your APS. I'm betting your APS is pretty high, and higher APS means higher AP consumption. For the most part SS requires a different gearing approach than SNS. You want low APS and high CC+CD+int+ave damage to raise dps high. That will maximize your dps potential and sustainability.
That gearing is the general strategy for most builds that utilize AP spenders, besides CMWW, though some meteor builds are the exception. Some people make good use out of a Skorn with just 10 APoC and virtually no IAS except for belt and maybe chest. Others use just 20 ApoC to get higher char sheet dps from 1h+OH.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
This is actually my problem with any Arcane Mines based build. With the people I usually run with in co-op games, we melt things so fast that virtually no mines have the chance to explode before the mobs are wiped out. Their only chance to shine come against elites, but even those are gone in 10 seconds or so, and really I can only cycle through one or two full waves of mines before I'm back to... well, not doing much. That's why I just stick to Archon and the instant/consistent burst damage.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
On Ubers, though, the game changes.
Wizard | Demon Hunter