Though I'm not so sure about its competativeness in solo grifts. People might just still with firebirds for solo, or come up with something else. The need for either strong CC, strong defense, or strong avoidance to merely survive changes the game a bit if you're speaking about solo.
You can opt for Tasker's, 5-piece Delsere + RoRG. You pick the Slow time rune that allows you to place the Slow time where you click. Why pass up the best damage spell in the wizard arsenal? In its current state, the slow time offpiece helm isn't worth passing up tasker. They'll have to rework the slow time runes or change the legendary power of the helm.
And in a group setting, tiki docs lock all the mobs including elites and their affixes, so you can easily take advantage of the APS. In a solo setting, it doesn't matter, it's still the top dps spec, people will play it.
The thing is, the bonus from the 6p applies to Arcane Orb also, making it stronger than Hydra. You are also assuming groups have tiki docs, that isn't the norm. Most cases you will have to be mobile, so having a high amount of AS doesn't help all that much.
For the Time Slow helm, it gives a ton of utility, including +10% AS for allies in it and +10% extra damage to enemies. Plus, it gives stun and huge slow. The stun and slow will help a LOT in GR, since it will allow for great mobility. No, I doubt that Hydra will be part of Opus build, but only time will tell.
You are also assuming groups have tiki docs, that isn't the norm.
No, it definitely is the norm. It is a 100% requirement for high group grifts. Find me a group in the top 100 4-player that doesn't have a witch doctor in it.
The thing is, the bonus from the 6p applies to Arcane Orb also, making it stronger than Hydra.
Yeah, and I say you're wrong. Back up your point with numbers. Account for arcane power expenditure and generation. Account for passives lost to the aforementioned. Account for hydra being able to snapshot Arcane Dynamo and hydra% on gear being a multiplicative buff.
You mention all the buffs/debuffs lost by not using the slow time helm, so the concept of opportunity cost can't be a completely foreign concept to you. Take some time and turn your gaze inward towards your arcane orb build.
You are also assuming groups have tiki docs, that isn't the norm.
No, it definitely is the norm. It is a 100% requirement for high group grifts. Find me a group in the top 100 4-player that doesn't have a witch doctor in it.
The thing is, the bonus from the 6p applies to Arcane Orb also, making it stronger than Hydra.
Yeah, and I say you're wrong. Back up your point with numbers. Account for arcane power expenditure and generation. Account for passives lost to the aforementioned. Account for hydra being able to snapshot Arcane Dynamo and hydra% on gear being a multiplicative buff.
You mention all the buffs/debuffs lost by not using the slow time helm, so the concept of opportunity cost can't be a completely foreign concept to you. Take some time and turn your gaze inward towards your arcane orb build.
Here's the thing, there is no way in hell that a skill would be SO imbalanced, that it beats another skill receiving a 500% buff. To prove my point, check the top 100 Wizards in Solo, you will not find a single one going Tasker and AS builds, simply because Hydra aren't worth it.
And about the top 100 Ladder, you kidding right? You really wanna look at the cookie cutters? Find me a group in the top 1000 that isn't a freaking group of 1 WD, 1 Crusader, 2 DH. There are exactly 3 Barbs, 1 Monk, 1 Wiz in it. And the Wiz? Absolutely 0 items that give attack speed, the only item that increased Hydra is from his Cindercoat, that is because he had to reroll for Sockets. So I guess your point didn't make sense at all.
How about the top 1000 of 3's? 2 Barbs and 2 Monks, that was it. All others were WD, DH, Crusader.
All of those are tryhard groups, that are going with the very best of efficiency, that is not the norm. Most of us play with friends, that will play whatever class they feel like playing, in whatever role they feel like playing, of whatever build they like. That is the norm.
Comparing AO and Hydra is pointless, you can have both. Hydra is a fire & forget spell.
Problem is, MM + AO + Hydra + Slow Time + Blink + Prismatic Armor, that is 6. So you wouldn't have the 20% from Force Weapon. I believe the damage from Hydra isn't worth the loss of 20%.
Here's the thing, there is no way in hell that a skill would be SO imbalanced, that it beats another skill receiving a 500% buff.
Then show it instead of just stating it. Hydra casts at the same time you are casting, it only uses up one attack turn every 15 seconds. Show me a BUILD that uses it well. Show me how you're going to pay for it. Show me what you're not getting in order to have it on your bars.
And about the top 100 Ladder, you kidding right? You really wanna look at the cookie cutters? Find me a group in the top 1000 that isn't a freaking group of 1 WD, 1 Crusader, 2 DH. There are exactly 3 Barbs, 1 Monk, 1 Wiz in it. And the Wiz? Absolutely 0 items that give attack speed, the only item that increased Hydra is from his Cindercoat, that is because he had to reroll for Sockets. So I guess your point didn't make sense at all.
How about the top 1000 of 3's? 2 Barbs and 2 Monks, that was it. All others were WD, DH, Crusader.
Which is exactly why I said tiki docs are required for high lvl greater rifts.
All of those are tryhard groups, that are going with the very best of efficiency, that is not the norm. Most of us play with friends, that will play whatever class they feel like playing, in whatever role they feel like playing, of whatever build they like. That is the norm.
Sure, if you don't care about doing high lvl greater rifts, the exact context that I called out for which tiki docs are required.
BDF, did you just choose to ignore that I just said that the ONLY Wizard in the top 1000 4's didn't have a single AS item? He was running an AoE build of Black Hole + Blizzard + Hydra. Nobody runs that build that I know of -.-
Damage from hydra is excellent and you only need to cast it once every 15s. It's very much possible that the best offensive setup with delsere will be magic missile - conflagrate (no other rune is even close because conflagrate pierces) and a second skill which spends arcane power. Hydra is awesome, I was around 70th place at the end of first era on wizard leaderboard and used an ancient sparker to get there (not even that well rolled, unfortunately cdr), no T&T though, and I have a very well rolled one. The most powerful (weapon dmg % wise) arcane orb hits for 700% in a very small radius. A single magic missile charge hits for 690%, pierces and leaves a DoT. It also costs nothing and is easily increased (simplicity etc). In current state of those skills I don't believe arcane orb has any way to outperform magic missile if you have a decent mirrorball. And if there is no reason to cast arcane orb, why have it on your bar instead of hydra, which you can leave on the ground and just let it attack?
Dunno....though our mirror images can stack (or at least did in the past) their own firebird dot. And with four images dealing 10% of your damage it might add up to something...
However their AI sucks, and they often don't cast where you want them to nor what you want them to. So even if it did work, it probably wouldn't be worth using in practice. Though the mirror images from Haunt of Vaxo use a different A.I. so it might be something to look at with that amulet once the set goes live.
Well PTR is coming up, and instead of all this guesswork about how the set might work I'll be on the front lines trying to get is ASAP to lock in some of these assumptions.
They hinted at 15 new legendary items, of which we only know of 5 (rend ring, slow-time helm, multi-element ring, rain of veng gloves, barb boots), so we'll see if they added anything else that might make this set better or any of its skills worth using other than magic missle.
Maybe they've revamped energy twister and its ill-fated bracers that were so bad during the last PTR.
Hopefully 'soon' actually means soon. I don't ever play ptrs, let us know about everything new ^^ I actually am kind of eager to do some excels and run simulations of new gear setups, if the mechanics are properly described, math is half the game's fun ^^
Well PTR is coming up, and instead of all this guesswork about how the set might work I'll be on the front lines trying to get is ASAP to lock in some of these assumptions.
They hinted at 15 new legendary items, of which we only know of 5 (rend ring, slow-time helm, multi-element ring, rain of veng gloves, barb boots), so we'll see if they added anything else that might make this set better or any of its skills worth using other than magic missle.
Maybe they've revamped energy twister and its ill-fated bracers that were so bad during the last PTR.
Based on this: "We're also adding over 15 new Legendary powers in the form of Legendary gems, armor, rings, and more, as well as updates to existing items. "
i guess 2 of those 10 we don't know are legendary gems, + the twister bracers, Ranslor's Folly, which means 7 unknown powers, let's hope for an arcane orb legendary.
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
Hopefully 'soon' actually means soon. I don't ever play ptrs, let us know about everything new ^^ I actually am kind of eager to do some excels and run simulations of new gear setups, if the mechanics are properly described, math is half the game's fun ^^
I believe for punish and sycophants, they were referring to buffing the skills themselves, and not via items. I could be wrong, but that seemed to be what they were saying. There were going to be some slight changes to skills to complement the sets and new items, like buffs to punish and sycophants, but that most changes would just be number tweaks.
Well patch 2.2 is most probably coming with S3 but I was talking about the ptr They said the ptr is coming soon.
Well, PTR usually only lasts for about 1~2 months, considering this will be kinda big, I'm going with 2 months. Season 2 should go to about August, if they aim for a 6 month Season. That means that PTR should start in late May, early Jun.
Yeah I read it that way at first, but after someone pointed out the other possible interpretation, I could see it go one way or another., which is why I tried to list them as maybes.
Blayreau gets it.
Though I'm not so sure about its competativeness in solo grifts. People might just still with firebirds for solo, or come up with something else. The need for either strong CC, strong defense, or strong avoidance to merely survive changes the game a bit if you're speaking about solo.
The thing is, the bonus from the 6p applies to Arcane Orb also, making it stronger than Hydra. You are also assuming groups have tiki docs, that isn't the norm. Most cases you will have to be mobile, so having a high amount of AS doesn't help all that much.
For the Time Slow helm, it gives a ton of utility, including +10% AS for allies in it and +10% extra damage to enemies. Plus, it gives stun and huge slow. The stun and slow will help a LOT in GR, since it will allow for great mobility. No, I doubt that Hydra will be part of Opus build, but only time will tell.
No, it definitely is the norm. It is a 100% requirement for high group grifts. Find me a group in the top 100 4-player that doesn't have a witch doctor in it.
Yeah, and I say you're wrong. Back up your point with numbers. Account for arcane power expenditure and generation. Account for passives lost to the aforementioned. Account for hydra being able to snapshot Arcane Dynamo and hydra% on gear being a multiplicative buff.
You mention all the buffs/debuffs lost by not using the slow time helm, so the concept of opportunity cost can't be a completely foreign concept to you. Take some time and turn your gaze inward towards your arcane orb build.
Here's the thing, there is no way in hell that a skill would be SO imbalanced, that it beats another skill receiving a 500% buff. To prove my point, check the top 100 Wizards in Solo, you will not find a single one going Tasker and AS builds, simply because Hydra aren't worth it.
And about the top 100 Ladder, you kidding right? You really wanna look at the cookie cutters? Find me a group in the top 1000 that isn't a freaking group of 1 WD, 1 Crusader, 2 DH. There are exactly 3 Barbs, 1 Monk, 1 Wiz in it. And the Wiz? Absolutely 0 items that give attack speed, the only item that increased Hydra is from his Cindercoat, that is because he had to reroll for Sockets. So I guess your point didn't make sense at all.
How about the top 1000 of 3's? 2 Barbs and 2 Monks, that was it. All others were WD, DH, Crusader.
All of those are tryhard groups, that are going with the very best of efficiency, that is not the norm. Most of us play with friends, that will play whatever class they feel like playing, in whatever role they feel like playing, of whatever build they like. That is the norm.
Problem is, MM + AO + Hydra + Slow Time + Blink + Prismatic Armor, that is 6. So you wouldn't have the 20% from Force Weapon. I believe the damage from Hydra isn't worth the loss of 20%.
Then show it instead of just stating it. Hydra casts at the same time you are casting, it only uses up one attack turn every 15 seconds. Show me a BUILD that uses it well. Show me how you're going to pay for it. Show me what you're not getting in order to have it on your bars.
Yeah, because it is a glass build that requires a tiki doc. Point to where I've ever stated otherwise.
Which is exactly why I said tiki docs are required for high lvl greater rifts.
Sure, if you don't care about doing high lvl greater rifts, the exact context that I called out for which tiki docs are required.
BDF, did you just choose to ignore that I just said that the ONLY Wizard in the top 1000 4's didn't have a single AS item? He was running an AoE build of Black Hole + Blizzard + Hydra. Nobody runs that build that I know of -.-
Damage from hydra is excellent and you only need to cast it once every 15s. It's very much possible that the best offensive setup with delsere will be magic missile - conflagrate (no other rune is even close because conflagrate pierces) and a second skill which spends arcane power. Hydra is awesome, I was around 70th place at the end of first era on wizard leaderboard and used an ancient sparker to get there (not even that well rolled, unfortunately cdr), no T&T though, and I have a very well rolled one. The most powerful (weapon dmg % wise) arcane orb hits for 700% in a very small radius. A single magic missile charge hits for 690%, pierces and leaves a DoT. It also costs nothing and is easily increased (simplicity etc). In current state of those skills I don't believe arcane orb has any way to outperform magic missile if you have a decent mirrorball. And if there is no reason to cast arcane orb, why have it on your bar instead of hydra, which you can leave on the ground and just let it attack?
Question, would Mirror Image proc the effect from the 6p and deal a lot of damage also?
Dunno....though our mirror images can stack (or at least did in the past) their own firebird dot. And with four images dealing 10% of your damage it might add up to something...
However their AI sucks, and they often don't cast where you want them to nor what you want them to. So even if it did work, it probably wouldn't be worth using in practice. Though the mirror images from Haunt of Vaxo use a different A.I. so it might be something to look at with that amulet once the set goes live.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/17989719/first-look-patch-220-2-19-2015
Well PTR is coming up, and instead of all this guesswork about how the set might work I'll be on the front lines trying to get is ASAP to lock in some of these assumptions.
They hinted at 15 new legendary items, of which we only know of 5 (rend ring, slow-time helm, multi-element ring, rain of veng gloves, barb boots), so we'll see if they added anything else that might make this set better or any of its skills worth using other than magic missle.
Maybe they've revamped energy twister and its ill-fated bracers that were so bad during the last PTR.
Hopefully 'soon' actually means soon. I don't ever play ptrs, let us know about everything new ^^ I actually am kind of eager to do some excels and run simulations of new gear setups, if the mechanics are properly described, math is half the game's fun ^^
Based on this: "We're also adding over 15 new Legendary powers in the form of Legendary gems, armor, rings, and more, as well as updates to existing items. "
i guess 2 of those 10 we don't know are legendary gems, + the twister bracers, Ranslor's Folly, which means 7 unknown powers, let's hope for an arcane orb legendary.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
15 new legendary items, we know for sure:
We can suspect:
That leaves 10 to 7 still complete unknowns.
Soon will most likely be Season 3.
Well patch 2.2 is most probably coming with S3 but I was talking about the ptr They said the ptr is coming soon.
I believe for punish and sycophants, they were referring to buffing the skills themselves, and not via items. I could be wrong, but that seemed to be what they were saying. There were going to be some slight changes to skills to complement the sets and new items, like buffs to punish and sycophants, but that most changes would just be number tweaks.
Well, PTR usually only lasts for about 1~2 months, considering this will be kinda big, I'm going with 2 months. Season 2 should go to about August, if they aim for a 6 month Season. That means that PTR should start in late May, early Jun.
@TheTruthAbounds
Yeah I read it that way at first, but after someone pointed out the other possible interpretation, I could see it go one way or another., which is why I tried to list them as maybes.