So, I posted this in reply to another topic but figured I'd move it here, as it's DH related, and I wanted to expand on it a little more. After watching a bunch of different live streams, I have to say that I'm surprisingly disappointed with the DH. I think part of the problem is that the desirable and totally awesome skills are only available at higher levels. As a result, the DH doesn't seem as interesting as I initially thought or that has been seen in other Blizzard videos. But, I feel most of the problems stem from the resource system (and not the colors!).
I'll get my petty personal annoyance out of the way first: the names. Out of context they sound really cool, but in the game I find it a little silly to hear the DH say, "I don't have enough Hatred for that," or, "I need more Discipline." English-wise, it just comes across as a bit goofy.
Moving on. My understanding was you would have to balance Hatred spells and Discipline spells. But, every single stream I've seen has been, "Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, oh crap Hatred is empty, Super Expensive Discipline Skill. Repeat." And that's even from people playing differently/using different spells etc. So far, the split resource feels a little unnecessary. I understand that each resource is meant for different types of spells (Hatred seems to be for offensive, damaging attacks; DIscipline for traps, evasion, and surviving), but it doesn't feel like the two resources are related to one another in any way. Now, I know I'm going to get raged at for even mentioning this, but when the DH split resource was being speculated about, I immediately thought of a Balance druid in WoW (where you go back and forth between Nature spells and Arcane spells). I'm not saying the DH should work exactly like that, but I was hoping for a similar balancing mechanic - use up one resource while the other increases, then use the other. Or, because of the nature of the Hatred and Discipline resources, have Hatred increase Discipline slower than Discipline would increase Hatred (since you wouldn't want to a bunch of Traps of Vaults to get your Hatred back).
Bottom line, I think I just expected the Hatred/Discipline system to actually interact and effect itself. Perhaps it feels different to actually play it, but right now it's one of the few things I've seen that I haven't liked from the Beta streams. Anyone have other opinions?
You've also only seen to level 13 bud. Wait until level 60. I might as well make a thread about how unbalanced the wiz is at level 13 in the beta, and how arcane power should be changed because they can just obliterate everything without running out. *sarcasm*
I agree, its the most lackluster system of all, and the half orb makes things harder to see.
I was thinking about how I would replace it with somethng more interesting. How about something like: you regenerate hatred when you do damage, you regen discipline when you take damage.
Not to pick your post apart; That wouldn't work. Regen hatred when you do dmg? Then some attacks can't cost hatred, which means which ones do you want to cost nothing, and therefor pretty op? You could say that only auto attacks, but then you won't be able to use any actual ability off the bat.
Second would be regen disc when taking damage? I'm a damn demon hunter, if i play my class well atm I can almost never get hit. This would mean i would HAVE to take damage just to use my abilities.... that make it to where I don't take damage.
Leave it to Blizzard to make their game prease.
I kinda understand your point, but what does that have to do with what I said? I wasn't commenting on how balanced or unbalanced the DH class is in the game. I was talking about the balance between the two resources. Something like two static, non-interactive resources isn't going to be much different at a higher level - you're still going to spam offensive spells, and occasionally use your situational Discipline/buff spells - but one never effects the other. That just seems like a missed opportunity to really set the DH apart.
Shadow Power will solve everyone's complaints about nto having to spend discipline. Its a discipline skill that buffs your ASPD + rune effect, combine that with the passive that boosts your damage for 10 seconds everytime you case a disc spell (stackable 3 times) and now you have a juggling act between buff duration and discipline volume/regen.
You might want more discipline for an escape, but you want to spend it to keep your 3 stacked damage buff going. WAT DO!?!?!?!
But I will agree that currently there isn't a lot to spend discipline on.
Shadow Power will solve everyone's complaints about nto having to spend discipline. Its a discipline skill that buffs your ASPD + rune effect, combine that with the passive that boosts your damage for 10 seconds everytime you case a disc spell (stackable 3 times) and now you have a juggling act between buff duration and discipline volume/regen.
You might want more discipline for an escape, but you want to spend it to keep your 3 stacked damage buff going. WAT DO!?!?!?!
But I will agree that currently there isn't a lot to spend discipline on.
Like I touched on in my first post, I think the higher level skills will definitely make the DH more desirable again in my book. But, I don't think Blizzard wanted to design a system that isn't very useful until you hit a certain higher level. Neither of the DH streams I was watching last night were using Discipline throughout almost the entire Beta run. There was even a guy commentating and answering questions on one, and he kept saying how he didn't even want to use the Disc spells because they either weren't useful or it was just better to keep shooting Hatred spells rather than put down a Disc trap and wait for things to walk over it.
This topic has been talked about quite a bit, and I hope that the devs take notice, but I think that the ship has sailed. I really like the one orb idea (In fact I posted the idea months ago in a different thread with a slight twist). I just want to try out the higher level DH to make a final decision. Sure it looks to be disappointing, but I haven't played yet and so can't know for sure. I seem to recall a few blue posts as well describing how they didn't want to restrict skills too much for this character and claimed that they were satisfied with how it turned out. Lets hope we are satisfied with it too when we've gotten a couple dozen hours playing with it!
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
The problem right now is you are forced to choose between using bow skills(hungering, multi) or gadget skills (bolo, grenades, etc). You burn through hatred too fast trying to use both in a battle.
Hungering and multi shot should build hatred. The barb and monk have no reason to ever use a normal attack, and neither should the DH.
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I'll get my petty personal annoyance out of the way first: the names. Out of context they sound really cool, but in the game I find it a little silly to hear the DH say, "I don't have enough Hatred for that," or, "I need more Discipline." English-wise, it just comes across as a bit goofy.
Moving on. My understanding was you would have to balance Hatred spells and Discipline spells. But, every single stream I've seen has been, "Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, Hatred, oh crap Hatred is empty, Super Expensive Discipline Skill. Repeat." And that's even from people playing differently/using different spells etc. So far, the split resource feels a little unnecessary. I understand that each resource is meant for different types of spells (Hatred seems to be for offensive, damaging attacks; DIscipline for traps, evasion, and surviving), but it doesn't feel like the two resources are related to one another in any way. Now, I know I'm going to get raged at for even mentioning this, but when the DH split resource was being speculated about, I immediately thought of a Balance druid in WoW (where you go back and forth between Nature spells and Arcane spells). I'm not saying the DH should work exactly like that, but I was hoping for a similar balancing mechanic - use up one resource while the other increases, then use the other. Or, because of the nature of the Hatred and Discipline resources, have Hatred increase Discipline slower than Discipline would increase Hatred (since you wouldn't want to a bunch of Traps of Vaults to get your Hatred back).
Bottom line, I think I just expected the Hatred/Discipline system to actually interact and effect itself. Perhaps it feels different to actually play it, but right now it's one of the few things I've seen that I haven't liked from the Beta streams. Anyone have other opinions?
Not to pick your post apart; That wouldn't work. Regen hatred when you do dmg? Then some attacks can't cost hatred, which means which ones do you want to cost nothing, and therefor pretty op? You could say that only auto attacks, but then you won't be able to use any actual ability off the bat.
Second would be regen disc when taking damage? I'm a damn demon hunter, if i play my class well atm I can almost never get hit. This would mean i would HAVE to take damage just to use my abilities.... that make it to where I don't take damage.
Leave it to Blizzard to make their game prease.
You might want more discipline for an escape, but you want to spend it to keep your 3 stacked damage buff going. WAT DO!?!?!?!
But I will agree that currently there isn't a lot to spend discipline on.
Like I touched on in my first post, I think the higher level skills will definitely make the DH more desirable again in my book. But, I don't think Blizzard wanted to design a system that isn't very useful until you hit a certain higher level. Neither of the DH streams I was watching last night were using Discipline throughout almost the entire Beta run. There was even a guy commentating and answering questions on one, and he kept saying how he didn't even want to use the Disc spells because they either weren't useful or it was just better to keep shooting Hatred spells rather than put down a Disc trap and wait for things to walk over it.
Hungering and multi shot should build hatred. The barb and monk have no reason to ever use a normal attack, and neither should the DH.