I don't have the gear to test it myself and when i look on diabloprogress, after scrolling the first 50 top barbs and seeing they are all 2 1 handers stacking fire % bonus I gave up.
So I was wondering since RoS, are 2 handers effective for barbs or they still can't match 2 1 handers with emeralds ?
from what i have gathered/read and from my own testing, it seems 1 handers still rule over 2handers, the problem with 2 handers is that they are: slow and even though they hit harder, swing time is slower, unless u have a lot of attack speed. SOME 2 handers are really good, i cant speak for barb so much as crusader, because for crusader obviously 2 handers are still king, in terms of dps, there are SOME 1 handers that are pretty good but are usually build-speicfic ones not just random 1handers
For barb, i tried out several 2 handers, it used to be equal and or more 2hander fronted, in d3v 2handers were good, and beastly, a perfect rolled skorn or maximus was a sight to behold
In order to get 2handers up to par hey would need to make the gems different, green gems are the only gem pretty much that goes in a weapon socket, i suggested that they make green gems maybe split them up, so if they are socketed in 1 handers, they give 130%, but if socketed in a 2hander gives say 200 or 250%, doubling it would be 260% and seems a bit excessive, because then people would think oh look at that 260% crit and flock to 2handers, even if its just doubling what u got from 2 1 handers
they could also make the critical damage % based on weapon or many other ways, of making other gems more desirable, maybe start combining gems, say a green and red, green gives 200% crit but it also has 10% damage (combine red and green) so now its somewhat more viable to run something other
There's a lot of cool 2handers, sad to say that i shard everything, even maximus and skorns, because they simply are sitting in my stash not getting used, i've gotten several really nice rolled skorns, but i just dont have a place for them atm, i've kept like 1 of everything, just in case though
also for barbs the fact they got the 2hander set axe, is sad cant really use it and be optimal, i like that axe and tried it out with a hammer build, it hits so hard, but lose so much dps, like 30%! its crazy...
you know, speaking of sunkeeper, its funny because the first few sunkeepers i had gotten i sharded, i was on my wd farming and i didnt really think that the elite damage would be useful as what i had equipped i was using a TF and i have shards of hate too, and other good build weapons, (doombringers etc) and so now i kick myself for doing that, as i realize the power of sunkeeper, 25% elite damage is aucutally crazy. silly me
still trying for a starmetal kurkuri though, 2 TF's, 2 SOH's, 4 unity, 4-5 soj's, 4 puzzle rings etc...no starmetal or wand of woh, seem to be the 2 rarest items int he game for how many 100's of hours i've farmed, across 3-4 toons, 10 hours+ a day some days...the search continues
That's what I thought, also you'll never be able to play at a very high T if you don't stack fire %... This sux, there are skills I want to use but can't because they don't do enough damage.
I am having big trouble finding a buidl with my barb. Even when i'm in battle rage and in berserker and do 1.2M dps I still can't do shit at t3. I look at the others around me and they kill everything so fast... I don't fucking get it, it's starting to be pretty frustrating.
I am the same way on my monk have awesome stats on sheet, insane attack speed, tons of crit damage and crit etc, and i go into t2/t3 and just get melted and die so much, tried many builds, i just cant farm/kill shit effectively, like i can with any of my other toons, its so weird, as if there is 1 thing i am missing that is key to the whole thing, and finding it, i'll just go from dying to being a walking god u know?
I had that problem with my crusader for a long time too, just couldnt get my dps up, no matter i tried, and i couldn't do crap, when they buffed them in 2.05 i was doing better, but still not clearing t3/t4 very well...THEN i found the build that changed everything, and went from doing ok, to an all-star breezing through t4, and clearing t5 fairly easily, it was wild, i went from 600k dps to 950 now, just by switching a few gear things, crafting some set items, getting max gems, and then building a +fire set, and now i am tearing it up, and not dying like hardly ever
I think i have yet to reach that point on my monk, i think its prob a build issue, i just haven't found the "key" build that matches my playstyle or how to be effective with my gear/stats
You know it when you find it, it was a huge difference for my crusader, and i did the same on my barb, went from doing "ok" to obliterating everything, just by finding the right build/element to stack, so i'm sure you will find your way, just have to keep trying things till it clicks together
I have to disagree with everyone that the issue is gems. The issue is not gems. It is all the other stats and affixes you miss out on by not being able yo use a shield, orb, mojo, or secondary weapon. Some classes like safer do just fine with the extra 130% crit damage. But they can't do without the extra 300-400 strength, 10% crit chance, and whatever kegbedary affix they lose by using only one item in both hands. 2 handers need to provide those things or be far above in damage, otherwise the call is too easy to make. And for now that is that 1 handers are better.
Well my gear is one problem, as I still have a couple of rares, but the upgrades just don't freaking drop, when i'll get some better items I'll play around with some builds. I tried an overpower build, but that thing seems to work half of the time Not sure if it's because of the critical but sometimes it seems to hit everything around me and sometimes it just hits 1 guy
Tried to use WW to use OP more often but the critical strikes I get from ww doesn't seem to affect the cooldown of OP... So I switch to revenge and hammer of the ancient, doing a little better but not by much.
Maybe you can give me some pointers Rae, if you wanna meet on bnet, sent my battletag in your pm.
I have to disagree with everyone that the issue is gems. The issue is not gems. It is all the other stats and affixes you miss out on by not being able yo use a shield, orb, mojo, or secondary weapon. Some classes like safer do just fine with the extra 130% crit damage. But they can't do without the extra 300-400 strength, 10% crit chance, and whatever kegbedary affix they lose by using only one item in both hands. 2 handers need to provide those things or be far above in damage, otherwise the call is too easy to make. And for now that is that 1 handers are better.
Yeah I thought about it, and I was like ok just give 2 handers more affixes. But then the crusader comes in with his ability to wield a 2 hander in 1 hand and screws up everything. They would be way too strong if they could wield a 2hander with even more affixes.
I'm running MOTE and IK sets with the IK boulder breaker. I find that it is competitive with my sunkeeper/sankis and in certain situations actually feels better. And my sunkeeper/sankis are rolled very well. Its a very niche case and for me it comes down to my hexing pants. If I drop the boulder breaker for dw I also have to drop hexing pants to keep my set bonuses. My experience is that the 25% damage from hexing pants and the higher damage of the two hander cancels out the loss of the second weapon socket and other offhand stats. From my calculations my build, 2his slightly bettervs normalmobs but slightly worse vs elites. You can certainly argue that elite damage is more important and I would agree, but I like the feel of a 2h enough to overlook theslightly lowerdamage vselites.
I agree that 2h's need a lot of love. Ideally a build like leap-quake it should be a no brainer to use a 2h sense attack speed it moot. In reality this is not the case as dw offhand stats are overwhelmingly strong. 2H stats need to be more distinguishing compared to 2h to make them viable in non niche cases.
Just wanted to post my experience because 2h aren't completely useless for barbs and there is definitely room to work them into certain builds without taking a massive efficiency loss even at high torments.You just need to have the right gear/build and have an open mind. With 2h leap-quake your sheet dps be definitely be lower compared to dw but that doesn't necessarily mean that youeffective dps is. FYI I can easily farm t5 at speed andcan do t6 but not fast enough to be efficient. This is true in my dw set and my 2h set..
No, the barbarian was super nerfed into the ground and there are only two end game builds for it that require a complete set of gear. Both which require two good one handed weapons.
I'm seeing some pretty inaccurate information posted here.
1) Barbs have not been "nerfed into the ground". We haven't been buffed while other classes have. Wizards and Monks are in the same boat. I still have absolutely no problem doing T6 end game groups or solo with my barb using any of the 3 common set builds (IK, Earth, or Raekors). Yes, it not as easy as doing it on my WD.
2) Two handed weapons are viable and do have a place. Maximus is one of the best examples. It actually works very well with a Seismic Slam build due to the high damage and slower attack speed. It also works well with Leapquake. The same is true when used appropriately for The Furnace. Mannercookie and several other testers have proven and documented this.
3) Two-Handers are universally weakened compared to dual-wielding due to the issue with Crit Hit Damage and stat balance. There are many ways to fix this broken mechanic of the game and unfortunately Blizzard has elected not to take any of them to date. Perhaps in 2.1 or a later date. That said, if you have very good 2h weapon, it will compete with and in some cases outshine a dual-wield setup where attack speed doesn't matter and top-end damage does.
So I was wondering since RoS, are 2 handers effective for barbs or they still can't match 2 1 handers with emeralds ?
For barb, i tried out several 2 handers, it used to be equal and or more 2hander fronted, in d3v 2handers were good, and beastly, a perfect rolled skorn or maximus was a sight to behold
In order to get 2handers up to par hey would need to make the gems different, green gems are the only gem pretty much that goes in a weapon socket, i suggested that they make green gems maybe split them up, so if they are socketed in 1 handers, they give 130%, but if socketed in a 2hander gives say 200 or 250%, doubling it would be 260% and seems a bit excessive, because then people would think oh look at that 260% crit and flock to 2handers, even if its just doubling what u got from 2 1 handers
they could also make the critical damage % based on weapon or many other ways, of making other gems more desirable, maybe start combining gems, say a green and red, green gives 200% crit but it also has 10% damage (combine red and green) so now its somewhat more viable to run something other
There's a lot of cool 2handers, sad to say that i shard everything, even maximus and skorns, because they simply are sitting in my stash not getting used, i've gotten several really nice rolled skorns, but i just dont have a place for them atm, i've kept like 1 of everything, just in case though
also for barbs the fact they got the 2hander set axe, is sad cant really use it and be optimal, i like that axe and tried it out with a hammer build, it hits so hard, but lose so much dps, like 30%! its crazy...
still trying for a starmetal kurkuri though, 2 TF's, 2 SOH's, 4 unity, 4-5 soj's, 4 puzzle rings etc...no starmetal or wand of woh, seem to be the 2 rarest items int he game for how many 100's of hours i've farmed, across 3-4 toons, 10 hours+ a day some days...the search continues
I am having big trouble finding a buidl with my barb. Even when i'm in battle rage and in berserker and do 1.2M dps I still can't do shit at t3. I look at the others around me and they kill everything so fast... I don't fucking get it, it's starting to be pretty frustrating.
I had that problem with my crusader for a long time too, just couldnt get my dps up, no matter i tried, and i couldn't do crap, when they buffed them in 2.05 i was doing better, but still not clearing t3/t4 very well...THEN i found the build that changed everything, and went from doing ok, to an all-star breezing through t4, and clearing t5 fairly easily, it was wild, i went from 600k dps to 950 now, just by switching a few gear things, crafting some set items, getting max gems, and then building a +fire set, and now i am tearing it up, and not dying like hardly ever
I think i have yet to reach that point on my monk, i think its prob a build issue, i just haven't found the "key" build that matches my playstyle or how to be effective with my gear/stats
You know it when you find it, it was a huge difference for my crusader, and i did the same on my barb, went from doing "ok" to obliterating everything, just by finding the right build/element to stack, so i'm sure you will find your way, just have to keep trying things till it clicks together
Tried to use WW to use OP more often but the critical strikes I get from ww doesn't seem to affect the cooldown of OP... So I switch to revenge and hammer of the ancient, doing a little better but not by much.
Maybe you can give me some pointers Rae, if you wanna meet on bnet, sent my battletag in your pm.
I agree that 2h's need a lot of love. Ideally a build like leap-quake it should be a no brainer to use a 2h sense attack speed it moot. In reality this is not the case as dw offhand stats are overwhelmingly strong. 2H stats need to be more distinguishing compared to 2h to make them viable in non niche cases.
Just wanted to post my experience because 2h aren't completely useless for barbs and there is definitely room to work them into certain builds without taking a massive efficiency loss even at high torments.You just need to have the right gear/build and have an open mind. With 2h leap-quake your sheet dps be definitely be lower compared to dw but that doesn't necessarily mean that youeffective dps is. FYI I can easily farm t5 at speed andcan do t6 but not fast enough to be efficient. This is true in my dw set and my 2h set..
1) Barbs have not been "nerfed into the ground". We haven't been buffed while other classes have. Wizards and Monks are in the same boat. I still have absolutely no problem doing T6 end game groups or solo with my barb using any of the 3 common set builds (IK, Earth, or Raekors). Yes, it not as easy as doing it on my WD.
2) Two handed weapons are viable and do have a place. Maximus is one of the best examples. It actually works very well with a Seismic Slam build due to the high damage and slower attack speed. It also works well with Leapquake. The same is true when used appropriately for The Furnace. Mannercookie and several other testers have proven and documented this.
3) Two-Handers are universally weakened compared to dual-wielding due to the issue with Crit Hit Damage and stat balance. There are many ways to fix this broken mechanic of the game and unfortunately Blizzard has elected not to take any of them to date. Perhaps in 2.1 or a later date. That said, if you have very good 2h weapon, it will compete with and in some cases outshine a dual-wield setup where attack speed doesn't matter and top-end damage does.