So happy for this! There would have been countless of useless runestones that nobody would use just like in early diablo 2 with so many lower level runestones. They are opting to have a much more cleaner environment, and this makes perfect sense. It would be super annoying to have to wait to get the rune you want to socket your skill. Then to have to upgrade it.... that would suck!
If you actually understood the rune changes you wouldn't have said this because this "better" system actually does what you're complaining about. In the older system runes dropped like candy of all types, so it wasn't hard to find obsidian crimson or alabaster it was all equal. Now they FORCE YOU TO WAIT. So if anything you should be upset at the new design not the old one...
The reason the old system didn't work (and they undoubtedly figured this out in testing) is because level 60 players have absolutely no need for them anymore, but they continue to drop nevertheless. It's the same reason they got rid of identify scrolls. Once you had 50 of them (because too many dropped), there went another thing that drop that had NO VALUE!
Blizzard knows that this game is supposed to be designed for the level 60 characters. The end game is all that matters for those of us who will play this game for the next 5+ years. I don't want to have these damn items that have no value dropping all over the place and polluting my item game.
This is a silly argument, considering Blizzard just removed almost all value from white items. And that was what, two beta patches ago? They said themselves that having these items of no value remain in the game makes it all the more rewarding when you find the one that is really valuable.
I see what you are saying but the item system doesn't work that way.
The way the Magic Find system works is, white items drop on the ground, period. There's a base probability that white item becoming either an uncommon(blue), rare(yellow), legendary(orange), or set(green) plus the probability added by magic find. Without white items dropping in the first place, the whole system would have to be revamped.
Plus, would it really be a diablo game if white items didn't drop? I think everyone agrees that would be a bad experience. I like it when treasure chests explode all over the place with a slew of items.
I'm not saying they should remove white items from the game because they have no value. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have worthless runestones just as there are worthless items. (By "worthless", I mean worthless at end game).
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
For all the people who are liking the changes to the rune system, I'd like to hear from you on this. Not because I am trying to start a war, but because I'm actually curious about your opinion on it -- and everyone's for that matter.
What about the skill without a rune affix? Once you get that first skill rune unlocked for that skill, you will in all likelihood start using that rune on that skill, until you unlock a better one (one that more fits your playstyle). The base skills are useless once you have a rune unlocked for it.
I understand this is true in the old system too, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you'd find a rune that was worth putting into that skill. Now the decision seems kind of forced upon you, does it not?
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
Cool man! Now i dont need to keep hunting for the runes, i can just build whatever build i want for whatever boss runs or dungeons i wanna go. That's really cool.
But im really surprised that at this stage, they are still making great changes to the game itself.
But well, i think the gameplay in itself is important, but to me, the most important is having fun with friends, trying to collect the different types of equipments is the most fun part. Swearing and celebrating when running in boss raids. Cheers.
IMHO, the reason they keep "cutting" things out of the game is because a lot of people are crying to them saying "put the game out already." And because it would of taken them a longer time to fix all the systems they wanted in the game they just said "f$#& it just take
out all the bells and whistles so we can get this game out, we won't have to hear these fans B&%$# everyday!"
I'm hoping and praying that with patches they start adding things they wanted at release but found it too difficult to figure out on a tightish schedule.
If we all remember correctly runewords were not in the original D2
For all the people who are liking the changes to the rune system, I'd like to hear from you on this. Not because I am trying to start a war, but because I'm actually curious about your opinion on it -- and everyone's for that matter.
What about the skill without a rune affix? Once you get that first skill rune unlocked for that skill, you will in all likelihood start using that rune on that skill, until you unlock a better one (one that more fits your playstyle). The base skills are useless once you have a rune unlocked for it.
I understand this is true in the old system too, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you'd find a rune that was worth putting into that skill. Now the decision seems kind of forced upon you, does it not?
This is the blunder of the system, They should've made it you get all skills at lvl 30 and then 30-60 you unlock ALL the runes for the skill at once. Instead of slowly progressing. They're forcing a path on you that some people might not want. If Ray of frost crimson is first unlock and alabaster is last, and I want alabaster i'm forced to wait while someone who wants crimson gets it much sooner. that isn't fair or warranted. They solved the blunder of useless itmes by creating a blunder that forces you to play a certain way. TBH i'd rather have useless items. The only thing that rights itself is that at level 60 you'd be the same either way. And the problem to that is it'll be hard for casual players to get to 60 because they said it themselves most casuals wont get through nightmare. So they'd have to farm normal which will be slow. This essential makes it so much harder for a casual player to unlock all skill combinations which is what I thought they wanted originally. IDK why they didn't think of any of this before.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
This is the best news ive heard in awhile. I think implementing it into the beta is a great idea also so that it can be tested and will work properly for release. This is the real customization in the game and hopefully what will give it life for years to come along with gear.
I must be missing something - can someone explain how this new rune system will ensure that players are unlocking something until level 60? In the picture of the Demon Hunter's rune selection, it looks to me like she will have access to all runes at level 35.
I like this system, and I think that all together it really sets D3's skill system apart from the those in D1 and D2. It's probably good, too, that you can't just freely switch runes at lower levels - it might make the game too easy at level 20 to be able to change a skill's elemental-type freely, but could be a necessity at level 60.
The image shows the runes for Impale which is/was a level 2 skill, so that's why the last rune is unlocked by level 35. Higher level skills will provide the rune unlocks up to level 60.
Personally, I think that there is still plenty to consider when choosing your skill and rune pairings simply because there are so many options for character builds. The active and passive skills interact in such a way that you can spend hours trying to come up with the "perfect" combination. Unlike in Diablo 2 where many builds just were not worth the time, this system really seems to promote creativity. Your imagination is the limit here.
After thinking about it for a while, I think it is for the best.
At level 60, if you want to change your skills, under the old rune system it would have been pretty limited. Unless you had 7 of each skill rune (35 in total) then your choices would be limited by how many runes you picked up (If you wanted, for example, all Obsidian Runes in each skill, then you would need 7 Obsidian runes) Sure, there wouldn't be many, if any times you wanted all 7 skills to have the same rune effect, but if you did, you would need 7 of the same colour.-
Finally an update on the Skill/Runes System. Personally I would say that its a decent change compared to the previous system but theres still some parts im confused about. Different rune types of the skill will be available as you level up, wouldn't that mean that in some way that some skill runes especially the higher level ones are of greater value or use? And also someone who wants say a skill rune that requires a higher level to unlock would have to wait till his character reaches a higher level to get it? Don't really see how this coincides with the "customizability" that the D3 team are trying to sell...
Fantastic changes all around. Not only is this an excellent change to the game, but the amount of nearly incoherent rage caused by the update is simply icing on the cake.
Like everything else, people will calm down in a few days, realize these changes are, in fact, all for the best, and enjoy the game when it comes out.
I feel some overreaction in this thread from people that always whine anyway.
I<m only concerned over the fact that there is less things to hunt at 60. But that is about it.
This is exactly how I feel as well. Hopefully the end game is fun enough, and there is enough loot to keep me wanting to play at 60. I have a feeling it will be, if inferno truly gives incentive to play any part of the game, and rewards exploration, etc..
I feel some overreaction in this thread from people that always whine anyway.
I<m only concerned over the fact that there is less things to hunt at 60. But that is about it.
This is exactly how I feel as well. Hopefully the end game is fun enough, and there is enough loot to keep me wanting to play at 60. I have a feeling it will be, if inferno truly gives incentive to play any part of the game, and rewards exploration, etc..
The Elective Mode for skill assignment gets rid of my fear for that system being added. As long as I can map what I want, where I want...then it's fine.
The Rune system changes I think are for the best. There's a point where farming becomes a bit unreasonable, and looking back at it...I think the old system crossed that point by a wide margin. Gear and gems will cover our need for drops and I'm sure expansions will add some new things (like charms). I did like the idea of trading the runes, but let's be honest...it would just be people listing them on the RMAH and trying to make a buck instead of actually building an in game economy.
This system gives us a bit more to look forward to when we level up, retains the customization of the previous system, and eliminates some of the tedious grinding and farming...as well as awful inventory and stash management. The new system seems clean and effective...very much looking forward to getting a few toons leveled in the beta tomorrow and trying it out.
Good thing they fixed the video card error that is widely known and has a workaround...oh wait.
Meh. I find the patch notes to be a lot of non-issues myself. Not really improving on anything or fixing anything that was a real problem. We'll see in the implementation once we are finally allowed to play...
This would indeed be a good change, forcing ppl to deal with micro-managing runes and trying to get it will be more frustrating than fun. Glad blizzard realize this fast and is making changes before game is release:D The other changes are icing on the cake good call.
Skill runes are no longer an item. They are part of the skill itself. You unlock the skill at a particular level, then as you continue leveling up over 30 or so levels (from the point you first learned the new skill) the skill rune rank I guess increases up to a max of 5 (down from 7).
Let's look at some of the cons of the second runestone system
-Unnatuned runes would have caused everyone frustration. You would have hundreds of worthless runes wasted- bound to skills with terrible affixes. Runestones were originally added to the game to modify the way skills looked and worked. We're not talking about finding random pieces of loot with good or bad stats, we're talking about your character's "build", the system you should have full control over, not, "...well fck the highest rank rune I can get for this skill is rank 4 so I guess I'll use this other skill I had no interest in using with this build..."
-Inventory and stash clutter, even before you cap out. Not even talking about runes being bound to individual skills, runes were given randomized affixes of 5 or so different levels, meaning they can't stack. So they'd take up a ton of space while holding onto them for that character down the road or other characters for each new rune which was found. However if each rune was bound to a specific skill you would still have a ton of clutter because what if you changed your mind and wanted to use that runestone for that skill again in the future? Go find it again? No you'd stash every rank 7 bound rune you got so long as it was different from the others you had.
-Purpose. What in the world are you going to do with a ton of runes after you've been farming for a while and have what you need? Just sell them like white items I guess. Their value might have started off high, but would over time dive to near-zero on the auction house. Just more useless crap, the last kind of item you want added.
To be honest I'm fine with either the first or the third runestone systems, though the first still carries the third listed flaw of the second system- it would still be preferable to the second as the second was really awful. Runestones aren't being socketed into gear anymore or used as runewords, that's where they got stuck. They turned them into skill customization tools and I think we can all agree that was a really badass idea and stick behind at least the original thought process behind runes and how they made skills perform differently.
Finally an update on the Skill/Runes System. Personally I would say that its a decent change compared to the previous system but theres still some parts im confused about. Different rune types of the skill will be available as you level up, wouldn't that mean that in some way that some skill runes especially the higher level ones are of greater value or use? And also someone who wants say a skill rune that requires a higher level to unlock would have to wait till his character reaches a higher level to get it? Don't really see how this coincides with the "customizability" that the D3 team are trying to sell...
Note: I'm not a raging kid or a dumb senile freak
Its rune progression, so u get runes of your level unlock when u hit that level. Bear in mind runes has levels to right in the old system u get it as drops. But now they give it to u instead of u having to find them.... isnt this better? Wouldnt it suck if u hit lvl60 and still cant find a rune(s) that u need to make a build? Or becos ppl are hoarding it and selling for outrages price?
Finally an update on the Skill/Runes System. Personally I would say that its a decent change compared to the previous system but theres still some parts im confused about. Different rune types of the skill will be available as you level up, wouldn't that mean that in some way that some skill runes especially the higher level ones are of greater value or use? And also someone who wants say a skill rune that requires a higher level to unlock would have to wait till his character reaches a higher level to get it? Don't really see how this coincides with the "customizability" that the D3 team are trying to sell...
Note: I'm not a raging kid or a dumb senile freak
Its rune progression, so u get runes of your level unlock when u hit that level. Bear in mind runes has levels to right in the old system u get it as drops. But now they give it to u instead of u having to find them.... isnt this better? Wouldnt it suck if u hit lvl60 and still cant find a rune(s) that u need to make a build? Or becos ppl are hoarding it and selling for outrages price?
It doesn't suck any less then hitting 60 and not having the items you need to support your build...
The whole game is farming items.
Anyone complaining about inventory management of runes needs to look at gems to see the ridiculously stupid amounts of them you need to craft the lvl 14 ones.
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I'm not saying they should remove white items from the game because they have no value. I'm saying it wouldn't hurt to have worthless runestones just as there are worthless items. (By "worthless", I mean worthless at end game).
What about the skill without a rune affix? Once you get that first skill rune unlocked for that skill, you will in all likelihood start using that rune on that skill, until you unlock a better one (one that more fits your playstyle). The base skills are useless once you have a rune unlocked for it.
I understand this is true in the old system too, but it wasn't necessarily guaranteed that you'd find a rune that was worth putting into that skill. Now the decision seems kind of forced upon you, does it not?
But im really surprised that at this stage, they are still making great changes to the game itself.
But well, i think the gameplay in itself is important, but to me, the most important is having fun with friends, trying to collect the different types of equipments is the most fun part. Swearing and celebrating when running in boss raids. Cheers.
out all the bells and whistles so we can get this game out, we won't have to hear these fans B&%$# everyday!"
I'm hoping and praying that with patches they start adding things they wanted at release but found it too difficult to figure out on a tightish schedule.
If we all remember correctly runewords were not in the original D2
This is the blunder of the system, They should've made it you get all skills at lvl 30 and then 30-60 you unlock ALL the runes for the skill at once. Instead of slowly progressing. They're forcing a path on you that some people might not want. If Ray of frost crimson is first unlock and alabaster is last, and I want alabaster i'm forced to wait while someone who wants crimson gets it much sooner. that isn't fair or warranted. They solved the blunder of useless itmes by creating a blunder that forces you to play a certain way. TBH i'd rather have useless items. The only thing that rights itself is that at level 60 you'd be the same either way. And the problem to that is it'll be hard for casual players to get to 60 because they said it themselves most casuals wont get through nightmare. So they'd have to farm normal which will be slow. This essential makes it so much harder for a casual player to unlock all skill combinations which is what I thought they wanted originally. IDK why they didn't think of any of this before.
The image shows the runes for Impale which is/was a level 2 skill, so that's why the last rune is unlocked by level 35. Higher level skills will provide the rune unlocks up to level 60.
Personally, I think that there is still plenty to consider when choosing your skill and rune pairings simply because there are so many options for character builds. The active and passive skills interact in such a way that you can spend hours trying to come up with the "perfect" combination. Unlike in Diablo 2 where many builds just were not worth the time, this system really seems to promote creativity. Your imagination is the limit here.
At level 60, if you want to change your skills, under the old rune system it would have been pretty limited. Unless you had 7 of each skill rune (35 in total) then your choices would be limited by how many runes you picked up (If you wanted, for example, all Obsidian Runes in each skill, then you would need 7 Obsidian runes) Sure, there wouldn't be many, if any times you wanted all 7 skills to have the same rune effect, but if you did, you would need 7 of the same colour.-
I<m only concerned over the fact that there is less things to hunt at 60. But that is about it.
Note: I'm not a raging kid or a dumb senile freak
Like everything else, people will calm down in a few days, realize these changes are, in fact, all for the best, and enjoy the game when it comes out.
This is exactly how I feel as well. Hopefully the end game is fun enough, and there is enough loot to keep me wanting to play at 60. I have a feeling it will be, if inferno truly gives incentive to play any part of the game, and rewards exploration, etc..
There will be... just less.
The Rune system changes I think are for the best. There's a point where farming becomes a bit unreasonable, and looking back at it...I think the old system crossed that point by a wide margin. Gear and gems will cover our need for drops and I'm sure expansions will add some new things (like charms). I did like the idea of trading the runes, but let's be honest...it would just be people listing them on the RMAH and trying to make a buck instead of actually building an in game economy.
This system gives us a bit more to look forward to when we level up, retains the customization of the previous system, and eliminates some of the tedious grinding and farming...as well as awful inventory and stash management. The new system seems clean and effective...very much looking forward to getting a few toons leveled in the beta tomorrow and trying it out.
Meh. I find the patch notes to be a lot of non-issues myself. Not really improving on anything or fixing anything that was a real problem. We'll see in the implementation once we are finally allowed to play...
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/34229-diablo-iii-beta-impressions/page__view__findpost__p__743763
Let's look at some of the cons of the second runestone system
-Unnatuned runes would have caused everyone frustration. You would have hundreds of worthless runes wasted- bound to skills with terrible affixes. Runestones were originally added to the game to modify the way skills looked and worked. We're not talking about finding random pieces of loot with good or bad stats, we're talking about your character's "build", the system you should have full control over, not, "...well fck the highest rank rune I can get for this skill is rank 4 so I guess I'll use this other skill I had no interest in using with this build..."
-Inventory and stash clutter, even before you cap out. Not even talking about runes being bound to individual skills, runes were given randomized affixes of 5 or so different levels, meaning they can't stack. So they'd take up a ton of space while holding onto them for that character down the road or other characters for each new rune which was found. However if each rune was bound to a specific skill you would still have a ton of clutter because what if you changed your mind and wanted to use that runestone for that skill again in the future? Go find it again? No you'd stash every rank 7 bound rune you got so long as it was different from the others you had.
-Purpose. What in the world are you going to do with a ton of runes after you've been farming for a while and have what you need? Just sell them like white items I guess. Their value might have started off high, but would over time dive to near-zero on the auction house. Just more useless crap, the last kind of item you want added.
To be honest I'm fine with either the first or the third runestone systems, though the first still carries the third listed flaw of the second system- it would still be preferable to the second as the second was really awful. Runestones aren't being socketed into gear anymore or used as runewords, that's where they got stuck. They turned them into skill customization tools and I think we can all agree that was a really badass idea and stick behind at least the original thought process behind runes and how they made skills perform differently.
Its rune progression, so u get runes of your level unlock when u hit that level. Bear in mind runes has levels to right in the old system u get it as drops. But now they give it to u instead of u having to find them.... isnt this better? Wouldnt it suck if u hit lvl60 and still cant find a rune(s) that u need to make a build? Or becos ppl are hoarding it and selling for outrages price?
It doesn't suck any less then hitting 60 and not having the items you need to support your build...
The whole game is farming items.
Anyone complaining about inventory management of runes needs to look at gems to see the ridiculously stupid amounts of them you need to craft the lvl 14 ones.