We're all a little pissed off at the delay, the PR, and the ridiculous hype behind game, but what do you think is the driving force behind delaying a game that -- across 3 demos, gameplay movies, and the beta -- looked reasonably "ready to go"?
I think that one of the reasons behind the delay is that the developers weren't expecting as many bugs as they got. The beta wasn't even intended for bugs, yet the vast majority of Vasadan posts are dealing with bugs of only the first 1/3rd of the first Act, and nothing has been patched regarding Battle.net interface issues. Obviously we're going to see bugs upon the official release, but I expect them to take this extra time to actually work on the game.
We've seen a slight adjustment to the DH resource (Hatred behaves similarly to Spirit now) and apparently they're still messing around with runestones. They've got a console version on the backburner, but that's an entirely separate development team.
Basically: is this delay the result of bugs, skill design and balance (damage vs. weapon damage), or excessive iteration (on runestones for example)?
Personally I think it's all of the above. As some of you may know, Gear of War 3 was delayed about 5 months. In that time the developers polished the game, especially the multiplayer experience. I can't wait to see how the developers use this time. Maybe they'll improve upon the story, upon PvP, upon gems, skills or items, or maybe they'll over-iterate and fail miserably. Regardless, none of us will be playing the final Diablo III at New Year's Eve 2011.
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The final test of the Serpent's Form takes place in "The Pit of 12 Vipers." The initiates are not told about the 13th.
Not really pissed off, just disappointed. But yes, I'm expecting a lot major changes to come up really soon. In pretty much all aspects of gameplay.
edit: I don't see the game as having to have a lot more bugs outside 1/3rd of Act 1. As people around here pointed out those are primarily mechanic bugs, not place bugs.
The changes will likely be about overhauling specific gameplay mechanics, like the ones you already mentioned. Pretty much stuff the community isn't happy with.
Of course I'm disappointed about the delay, would've been nice if they had the game ready for 2011 rather than 2012. Still, I understand them and their effort for high quality, so that's good. What bother me is that except for the announcements/confirmation of D3 not coming out 2011, Blizzard are being so cryptic and asshole-ish. They're not the fucking president of the world, why being so fucking cryptic and asshole-diplomatic? Would it actually hurt them to be honest about for example the status of the beta? If they went out and told us that x amount of betas have gone out because they're not very comfortable with the current ability of the servers, or that they rather wait with sending out a decent amount of invites before they patch the beta or whatever, I would have WAY more respect for them.
As it stands now, I just despise Blizzard as a company because they're behaving like retards, but the fact still remains that they make awesome games so I'll continue being a fan. Just wish they'd be honest or give a straight answer for once. Jeez..
Please remember that they aren't just dealing with the fans. They have to maintain a good image and reputation to the press, shareholders and whatnot. Not to mention the competitors (meaning other gaming companies). They aren't just making a new sequel to an old game, they are making a game that will set new standards in the gaming industry, especially the ARPG genre.
The delay is fine by me though. If there is work that has to be done on the game, then there is work that has to be done on the game.. Simple as that.
Please remember that they aren't just dealing with the fans. They have to maintain a good image and reputation to the press, shareholders and whatnot. Not to mention the competitors (meaning other gaming companies). They aren't just making a new sequel to an old game, they are making a game that will set new standards in the gaming industry, especially the ARPG genre.
I understand that. Still, just imagine a gaming company being totally honest to their fanbase.
Even though they didn't make the most awesome games, you'd respect them and because of that enjoy their games slightly more. Blizzard could still be honest to the fans and at the same time please the shareholders etc. At the moment I can't help despising Blizzard for their attitude towards the fanbase. They should treat us with atleast some respect and honesty, we're not retarded.
I don't know man. Maybe they make the mistake to assume that their fans have something better to do with their days than sit at home being pissed at a game company
I think the writing was on the wall when Morhaime was non-commital during the earnings call, saying "We're still targeting a 2011 release". A silly attempt to try and assuage fears. Anyone noting Blizzard's modus operandi especially in the last 5-7 years can see that any time they mention some nebulous time frame, add 6 months to 1 year to it and then you might just get lucky in terms of predicting a release date.
The ONLY reason why I'm pissed is because they specifically stated that:
1. The Beta was for stress testing the servers.
2. They said the game is pretty much done.
3. Blizzard Blues kept trolling about the damn beta constantly.
Otherwise I couldn't of gave 2 shits about the game being delayed and what not but when you do shit like that it pisses your loyal fan base off big time.
Of course I'm disappointed about the delay, would've been nice if they had the game ready for 2011 rather than 2012. Still, I understand them and their effort for high quality, so that's good. What bother me is that except for the announcements/confirmation of D3 not coming out 2011, Blizz are being so cryptic and asshole'ish. They're not the fucking president of the world, why being so fucking cryptical and asshole-diplomatic? Would it actually hurt them to be honest about for example the status of the beta? If they went out and toldl us that x amount of betas have gone out because they're not very comfortable with the current ability of the servers, or that they rather wait with sending out a decent amount of invites before they patch the beta or whateve, I would have WAY more respect for them.
As it stands now, I just despise Blizzard as a company because they're behaving like retards, but the fact still remains that they make awesome games so I'll continue being a fan. Just wish they'd be honest or give a straight answer for once. Jeez..
funny my bro and I where kinda saying the same thing I like blizz games a lot but I don't like them as a company even though that may sound strange but its true.
Blizz keeps on trollin', if he'd have a girlfriend, she'd left him by now with all those empty words he's sayin'.
Camon investorz, all ya gotta do is wait 3 moar months for those profits to soar.
Meanwhile Blizz sittin' on the chair chillin' out eatin' doritos' fartin' and barpin'.
That game's gonna have to come out sooner or later, and it betta be good cuz' after so many years, your reputation's on the line biaatch.
You just hangin' on a thread Blizz, if you don't comply with the people soon we will have to make you comply.
Peace Ya'll
Another thing to add, some guy predicted on the forums that the Demon Hunter change would delay the game to 2012 and a blue said don't make assumptions. Yeah, who's the jackass now?
I wouldn't expect to see Diablo 3 before March now since they can use the fun phrase "First Quarter of 2012." I was really hoping it wouldn't come to this since my wife and I are expecting our second child in March. I was just hoping to be able to get some game time in before the baby got here since for about 3 months after that I won't really have any free time at all. Oh, well.
I agree with those who think Blizzard makes amazing games but doesn't like them as a company. I guess that's just the way it is. There is no good reason for them to withhold so much from their fans. Plenty of the things they're not being forthcoming about (beta invite details, for instance) they could and should be and it would make things better, not worse. I don't know why they're so reticent when it comes to forthright honesty.
I've always feared they wouldn't have made it for this year.
At the press event they were still talking about ideas up in the air (about the changes to the runes system), and that was a first sign.
Them overhauling the DH, finding bugs in the AH all pointed in the same direction. Releasing such a big game needs a LOT of testing, and if they change even small things they will need to test extensively whatever they changed.
Let's take into account the recent changes to spell damage on Wizards. This will delay the release even more, changing something this substantial means they need to check a lot of stuff.
Also, the impression I got from the item database they officially posted, is that itemization is still very rough, and they need to work much more on it.
Outlook is quite grim, I am under the impression that they can't test properly. How could the DH resource starvation problem go unnoticed before going into beta?
Kids want to PEWPEW more instead of really managing their resources. They cried, blizzard wipes their tears.
I personally think that they have miss calculated this one, this time.
I think the decision to be "ready when its ready" this time will nip them in the but and actually be a negative this time around.
Already, if they dont improve the graphics, this will continue to be a critical issue. You can say its a painting style all you like, the fact is there is a growing population that believe that the graphics are "last-gen", there fore the quality and polish they are ultimately looking for will always be diminished by said "last-gen" graphics, or as the fanboys call them, "playing a painting" by this populous of people.
I feel they have crossed over to the Peter Molynox level of hyping aspects and ideas of polish and prefection that will never be able to be met in game and that this time around the media and players alike will see, that yes, its a good game, but certainly feels like it should have been better for a game released in the year 2012.
Blizzard has really shown their cards here, in trying so hard to hide their cards.
The truth is, they are doing MAJOR re-writes, evidence keeps trickling out. A ton of feature functionality isn't even in the game yet, including but certainly not limited to:
-Runes: getting a re-write, being iterated
-Demon Hunter: skills and resources (class is clearly broken)
-Items: most of the item affixes/suffixes posted are actually placeholders, so says Bashiok, and the real aff/suff are not yet implemented).
-battle.net clearly unstable (many crashes, has been down for a looong time)
-skills and damage scaling
The cornerstone of Blizzard's development model is Agile/Scrum style iteration. But the OP asks a great question: "How much is too much iteration?"
I've been trained in Agile/Scrum, and literally THE BIGGEST caveat they teach you to control and manage is exactly that: too much iteration . Blizzard has this dream-list of features that they CHANGE CONSTANTLY, coupled with a pie-in-the-sky vision of "quality" that forces them into infinite "no-go" iteration cycles.
But hey, that's their prerogative. They DO produce amazing games, no question. But as I always say, Blizzard needs to get IMMENSELY better at managing their public image, and their loyal fan base.
Why you ask? We'll just buy their games no matter what?
Here's why: The SECOND Blizzard releases a sub-par game, they will be absolutely slammed. I mean let's be honest guys.. Blizzard puts their fans through hell. Their PR approach is boarder-line insane: Have daily interaction through these proxy-users (Basiok, etc) whose job is to literally keep loyal fans engaged but woefully un-informed. This approach breeds SO much resentment. There's a serious psychological explanation for how people react to Blizzard PR, and it's very similar to how a human reacts when a potential love interest plays hard-to-get. They remain attractive by being both secretive AND actively engaged. This is why seemingly normal people react so strongly every time Blizzard pulls a number like this.
I doubt any of this is on purpose. It's becoming more and more clear to me that behind those big blue doors, there is a lot of confusion.
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"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
Why you ask? We'll just buy their games no matter what?
Here's why: The SECOND Blizzard releases a sub-par game, they will be absolutely slammed. I mean let's be honest guys.. Blizzard puts their fans through hell. Their PR approach is boarder-line insane: Have daily interaction through these proxy-users (Basiok, etc) whose job is to literally keep loyal fans engaged but woefully un-informed. This approach breeds SO much resentment. There's a serious psychological explanation for how people react to Blizzard PR, and it's very similar to how a human reacts when a potential love interest plays hard-to-get. They remain attractive by being both secretive AND actively engaged. This is why seemingly normal people react so strongly every time Blizzard pulls a number like this.
I doubt any of this is on purpose. It's becoming more and more clear to me that behind those big blue doors, there is a lot of confusion.
I feel this is a major concern and another aspect at what I was trying to say in my above post.
I've also made a post with the relation to a women who is smokeing hot and knows it, but plays hard to get. I erased that because I couldnt get it out as well as you have put it together in the above quote. +1 to you for that!
Im am right in line with this users post and feel that Blizzad risks this public image disaster if D3 isnt perfect in our eyes now because of Blizzards own actions and policy's.
I for one will be the first to jump. I suffer from exactly the emotions that the above quote details. Im seemingly normal. But the way this comes across to me from Blizzard drives me to spend full days posting rants online. Its a psychological warefare Blizzard is putting its customers through.
Yeah, their refusal to share actually ramps up expectations to extremely high levels. They've delivered so far and they'll probably deliver again with D3. But it places them in a needlessly precarious PR position. They could just talk to their fans and online community honestly and it would make things so much better. I honestly think they should just not have official forums. I think they do more harm than good and Bashiok and the other CMs are obviously so hamstrung that they can't possibly hope to do their jobs well.
Yeah, they're refusal to share actually ramps up expectations to extremely high levels. They've delivered so far and they'll probably deliver again with D3. But it places them in a needlessly precarious PR position. They could just talk to their fans and online community honestly and it would make things so much better. I honestly think they should just not have official forums. I think they do more harm than good and Bashiok and the other CMs are obviously so hamstrung that they can't possibly hope to do their jobs well.
Exactly right. It IS NEEDLESSLY precarious. I feel bad for Bash and company, clearly the man behind the curtain gives PR folks very little wiggle room.
Thing is, Blizzard's PR approach just doesn't fit popular culture any more. This is the age where everyone is hyper connected. We as online communities KNOW that we hold the power, and have the power to sway popular opinion. Blizzard is using a dying PR model from the 90's.
This whole marketing approach they've taken has been so exasperating for so many fans, it's starting to resemble an abusive relationship. They have what I need, and I just have to endure their unfathomable actions.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
I can't disagree with most of the points being made in this thread.
Blizzard is lucky to be in the position they're in, with all the resources and (apparently) time in the world to iterate, reiterate, wash, rinse and reiterate again. The guys who set out to form Flagship had the same approach and unfortunately could not keep up with their own ambitions.
...Not that the game won't sell millions of copies regardless. It's just that they have to get to a point where enough is enough. I mean, they do plan on supporting the game via patches and whatnot after it's released, right??
I wish them the best of luck with meeting the hype of the game, which will continue to grow with every passing day...
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I think that one of the reasons behind the delay is that the developers weren't expecting as many bugs as they got. The beta wasn't even intended for bugs, yet the vast majority of Vasadan posts are dealing with bugs of only the first 1/3rd of the first Act, and nothing has been patched regarding Battle.net interface issues. Obviously we're going to see bugs upon the official release, but I expect them to take this extra time to actually work on the game.
We've seen a slight adjustment to the DH resource (Hatred behaves similarly to Spirit now) and apparently they're still messing around with runestones. They've got a console version on the backburner, but that's an entirely separate development team.
Basically: is this delay the result of bugs, skill design and balance (damage vs. weapon damage), or excessive iteration (on runestones for example)?
Personally I think it's all of the above. As some of you may know, Gear of War 3 was delayed about 5 months. In that time the developers polished the game, especially the multiplayer experience. I can't wait to see how the developers use this time. Maybe they'll improve upon the story, upon PvP, upon gems, skills or items, or maybe they'll over-iterate and fail miserably. Regardless, none of us will be playing the final Diablo III at New Year's Eve 2011.
edit: I don't see the game as having to have a lot more bugs outside 1/3rd of Act 1. As people around here pointed out those are primarily mechanic bugs, not place bugs.
The changes will likely be about overhauling specific gameplay mechanics, like the ones you already mentioned. Pretty much stuff the community isn't happy with.
Ha. Bagstone.
The delay is fine by me though. If there is work that has to be done on the game, then there is work that has to be done on the game.. Simple as that.
I don't know man. Maybe they make the mistake to assume that their fans have something better to do with their days than sit at home being pissed at a game company
1. The Beta was for stress testing the servers.
2. They said the game is pretty much done.
3. Blizzard Blues kept trolling about the damn beta constantly.
Otherwise I couldn't of gave 2 shits about the game being delayed and what not but when you do shit like that it pisses your loyal fan base off big time.
Camon investorz, all ya gotta do is wait 3 moar months for those profits to soar.
Meanwhile Blizz sittin' on the chair chillin' out eatin' doritos' fartin' and barpin'.
That game's gonna have to come out sooner or later, and it betta be good cuz' after so many years, your reputation's on the line biaatch.
You just hangin' on a thread Blizz, if you don't comply with the people soon we will have to make you comply.
Peace Ya'll
Bros b4 hoes
I agree with those who think Blizzard makes amazing games but doesn't like them as a company. I guess that's just the way it is. There is no good reason for them to withhold so much from their fans. Plenty of the things they're not being forthcoming about (beta invite details, for instance) they could and should be and it would make things better, not worse. I don't know why they're so reticent when it comes to forthright honesty.
Kids want to PEWPEW more instead of really managing their resources. They cried, blizzard wipes their tears.
I think the decision to be "ready when its ready" this time will nip them in the but and actually be a negative this time around.
Already, if they dont improve the graphics, this will continue to be a critical issue. You can say its a painting style all you like, the fact is there is a growing population that believe that the graphics are "last-gen", there fore the quality and polish they are ultimately looking for will always be diminished by said "last-gen" graphics, or as the fanboys call them, "playing a painting" by this populous of people.
I feel they have crossed over to the Peter Molynox level of hyping aspects and ideas of polish and prefection that will never be able to be met in game and that this time around the media and players alike will see, that yes, its a good game, but certainly feels like it should have been better for a game released in the year 2012.
The truth is, they are doing MAJOR re-writes, evidence keeps trickling out. A ton of feature functionality isn't even in the game yet, including but certainly not limited to:
-Runes: getting a re-write, being iterated
-Demon Hunter: skills and resources (class is clearly broken)
-Items: most of the item affixes/suffixes posted are actually placeholders, so says Bashiok, and the real aff/suff are not yet implemented).
-battle.net clearly unstable (many crashes, has been down for a looong time)
-skills and damage scaling
The cornerstone of Blizzard's development model is Agile/Scrum style iteration. But the OP asks a great question: "How much is too much iteration?"
I've been trained in Agile/Scrum, and literally THE BIGGEST caveat they teach you to control and manage is exactly that: too much iteration . Blizzard has this dream-list of features that they CHANGE CONSTANTLY, coupled with a pie-in-the-sky vision of "quality" that forces them into infinite "no-go" iteration cycles.
But hey, that's their prerogative. They DO produce amazing games, no question. But as I always say, Blizzard needs to get IMMENSELY better at managing their public image, and their loyal fan base.
Why you ask? We'll just buy their games no matter what?
Here's why: The SECOND Blizzard releases a sub-par game, they will be absolutely slammed. I mean let's be honest guys.. Blizzard puts their fans through hell. Their PR approach is boarder-line insane: Have daily interaction through these proxy-users (Basiok, etc) whose job is to literally keep loyal fans engaged but woefully un-informed. This approach breeds SO much resentment. There's a serious psychological explanation for how people react to Blizzard PR, and it's very similar to how a human reacts when a potential love interest plays hard-to-get. They remain attractive by being both secretive AND actively engaged. This is why seemingly normal people react so strongly every time Blizzard pulls a number like this.
I doubt any of this is on purpose. It's becoming more and more clear to me that behind those big blue doors, there is a lot of confusion.
-Thomas Jefferson
I feel this is a major concern and another aspect at what I was trying to say in my above post.
I've also made a post with the relation to a women who is smokeing hot and knows it, but plays hard to get. I erased that because I couldnt get it out as well as you have put it together in the above quote. +1 to you for that!
Im am right in line with this users post and feel that Blizzad risks this public image disaster if D3 isnt perfect in our eyes now because of Blizzards own actions and policy's.
I for one will be the first to jump. I suffer from exactly the emotions that the above quote details. Im seemingly normal. But the way this comes across to me from Blizzard drives me to spend full days posting rants online. Its a psychological warefare Blizzard is putting its customers through.
Exactly right. It IS NEEDLESSLY precarious. I feel bad for Bash and company, clearly the man behind the curtain gives PR folks very little wiggle room.
Thing is, Blizzard's PR approach just doesn't fit popular culture any more. This is the age where everyone is hyper connected. We as online communities KNOW that we hold the power, and have the power to sway popular opinion. Blizzard is using a dying PR model from the 90's.
This whole marketing approach they've taken has been so exasperating for so many fans, it's starting to resemble an abusive relationship. They have what I need, and I just have to endure their unfathomable actions.
-Thomas Jefferson
Blizzard is lucky to be in the position they're in, with all the resources and (apparently) time in the world to iterate, reiterate, wash, rinse and reiterate again. The guys who set out to form Flagship had the same approach and unfortunately could not keep up with their own ambitions.
...Not that the game won't sell millions of copies regardless. It's just that they have to get to a point where enough is enough. I mean, they do plan on supporting the game via patches and whatnot after it's released, right??
I wish them the best of luck with meeting the hype of the game, which will continue to grow with every passing day...