Stumbled across thisin a thread on Battlenet in case anyone missed it, forgive me if it's already been posted.
It starts off pretty slow but hoping it gets better (about 5 mins in).
In this episode of TDP you’ll hear Elly and Flux talk about the early days of DiabloII.net, the Diablo II beta, their 1999 visit to Blizzard North, and the news that Diablo III was initially developed as an MMORPG. We know about that last bit since we heard it in an interview last week from Max Schaefer, and the first half of that interview forms the bulk of this podcast, from around the 12-42 minute mark. In the interview Max answers numerous questions about Diablo and his time at Blizzard, including some new details about the initial art design of Diablo I, how that “gothic” style was modified in Diablo II and how it’s represented in today’s Blizzard Irvine-produced Diablo III. Plus much more on the Diablo games and his opinion of issues in Diablo III.
Elly and Flux return for a wrap up after Max’s segment, with discussion of Max’s comments on Diablo I and Diablo II’s security failings, Torchlight 2′s planned security features, and what the most modern MMOs, such as WoW and RIFT, are doing to keep player accounts safe.
Part two of Flux’s interview with Max will be posted in next week’s podcast. In that half Max primarily converses about Torchlight 1 and 2, with a lot more discussion of RPG game design, small studio vs. mega-corp style game development, the perils of excessive iteration, and much more.
Edit: I don't necessarily agree with everything that's being said but it's still Diablo news. Controversial topics make for good discussion as long people don't resort to flaming.
I can't find one yet but it was only released yesterday. You can read through the links to get a rough idea of what they're discussing. The pentagram topic was interesting, I wonder what Diablo's new trademark will be?
While I love almost everything I've seen from Diablo 3, the removal of pentagrams is really disappointing. I can definitely see some religious idiots freaking out and making a big stink about it. To be honest though, the fucking name of the game is "Diablo" so they're already going to piss off the uber religious crowd anyways. Might as well have left them in IMO...
I enjoyed the first part of the interview when I read it (last week?). I'll get around to this. It was nice seeing something on diii.net's homepage other than Tweet spam that we can just read out of a tracker.
Thanks Magistrate, I only got around to listening to half of it so the transcript would be a blessing. It's ok if you don't get around to it though.
@ Doomscream - I see.
@ AlexanderZero - It's just one of those things I guess. I did feel a slight pang when I read that part but then I thought... hey Blizzard has the chance to make a really visually powerful and unique symbol for Diablo (of course it will be hard designing something more powerful than the pentagram) but I'd like to see what they come up with. Crosses are a little bit more racey, as a direct connection to Christianity but they were also a torture device in history. But I can understand why it's not a great idea to include them.
Blizzard North's D3 may have been an MMORPG... I'm not quite sure what to make of that info. I like the general idea behind MMOs but after playing WoW and GW for a while I found them a bit boring. But that's not to say that an isometric Diablo based MMO would be bad.
I haven't looked into Rift at all, I just thought it was some generic RPG. I'll get around to checking out more of the articles later.
It's not that a cross was a common form of torture, it's what the cross symbolizes, in and beyond Christianity. Diablo is very much based on old DnD concepts, before Elves and that kind of thing popped up. It's a very, very Western RPG and they're attempting to globalize it by erasing our heritage from it.
Crosses are symbols of extreme sacrifice and, when used in the occult, are sometimes perverted and used from an opposite standpoint. Inverted crosses.
Simply saying cross should go because one was used at one point in the bible (well, the story is retold by each epistle, but it's the same one) is, in my opinion, ignorant of the base fact of its popularity and worldwide recognition as a symbol, and of its potency as a conveyor of an immediate image, for good or ill. It's a potent symbol and should be used. The same goes for the pentagram--it has various powerful usages and meanings.
It's really just immature to me, actually. Refusing it is so ignorant of its rich literary meaning. In the same way Africans shouldn't be ashamed of their cultural past, so, too, shouldn't we of ours. That doesn't mean we have to accept everything in it, but it does mean we shouldn't attempt to erase it.
Ugh, rambling. Sorry. Crosses, pentagrams, other westernized occult and religions symbols are, to me, an important part of what it is that makes Diablo Gothic. Where does the term Gothic come from? The cathedrals, of course. Should we erase that term, too? Let's just make everything bland and generic and meaningless.
Gah had a long post typed out then got a "Servers are at full capacity" message and lost it all. ><
I agree with you and it is a shame indeed that it has come to this. It's another case of political correctness gone mad and the fans are the ones paying for it. I guess Blizzard would rather not risk some religious nut spreading a smear campaign stating that Diablo is all about burning corpses being crucified with pentagrams etched into their chest. I also thought that they wanted to come up with something original that relates better to Diablo, but crosses and pentagrams have already been established as symbols of Sanctuary, so this seems like more of an afterthought to support removing them.
It reminds me of when WW2 games edit the swastika out for the iron cross. It doesn't make sense in a game based on history but the symbol brings much hate into the world, at least in western society. This at least has some merit being only 70 odd years ago.
Did any issues arise from the other Diablo games? I'll do a quick search.
Bashiok says that they want a unique fantasy world for Diablo (in so many words) here.
I can't find any sort of religious controversy surrounding the earlier games on the internet.
A compromise would work quite well I think. Imagine if they used symbols that looked like a cross, or a pentagram, but were more related to the lore in Sanctuary. So you would see it and think is that a Christian cross? and on closer inspection discover that it is inscribed with glowing runes or something.
Even though the whole 'inventing a new world for Diablo' excuse does seem pretty meh, it does seem like they are fleshing out Sanctuary quite a bit. I wouldn't be surprised to see some interesting Zakarum church symbols or various cultist symbols throughout the world. I do think they should have left them in considering they were in past games, but you can at least see their reasoning considering how sensitive of a topic religion can be, especially in a game all about demons.
I listened to the whole thing. It was really interesting to hear some of the behind the scenes stuff, but some things didn't make sense. For one, it seemed like Flux was kind of fishing for controversy with a few of the questions. As if he wanted to get Max to say something bad about Blizzard or Diablo 3. Not all of the questions were like that but definitely some of them. Max was basically asked continually "you were unhappy about this weren't you?" or "you didn't like that right?" and every time Max was like "No, not at all."
The other thing I didn't understand is what the whole focus on Rift was. That didn't have much to do with Diablo 3, other than maybe possible security measures Blizzard could do to protect items. Well, it's not needed. Blizzard already has authenticators for near perfect security. As well as other security like if your account is logged in from two far distance places, it's locked down and you get an email that Blizzard suspects your account was hacked.
The Rift servers have apparently already been hacked twice. Why should Blizzard copy them when WoW servers have never been hacked? Sure, players' computers are hacked and their stuff is stolen, but Blizzard's own servers have never been hacked. I think Blizzard has their security under control.
Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mind incgamers. I used to go to their site all the time when it was diabloii.net. Only thing I don't like is how slow their website seems to always be. I've heard it's in England though, so I guess that makes sense connecting from America.
The RIFT part was because incgamers has a RIFT site and the girl probably plays RIFT. And the "Coin lock" feature has nothing to do with RIFT's security system. If Blizzard implemented something it wouldn't be "copying" RIFT's security in any way; Blizzard would copy a feature by writing and implementing it themselves. Btw, it's not WoW's server security they're talking about. It's the player accounts. If your account is suddenly logged into by someone in China and you live in New York, your account would be locked immediately. Again, it has nothing to do with the game's own security systems so I don't know why you keep referencing that.
Yeah, but it's called "Diablo Podcast". What does Rift have to do with Diablo? I can only guess it was about the security stuff. I meant copy the idea, not their actual code or anything like that. Of course Blizzard would implement it their own way. If Elly was talking about account hacks and not Rift server hacks, then I apologize for that. I must have misinterpreted her words.
It starts off pretty slow but hoping it gets better (about 5 mins in).
Might be an idea to make an account at IncGamers, heaps to discuss.
Edit: I don't necessarily agree with everything that's being said but it's still Diablo news. Controversial topics make for good discussion as long people don't resort to flaming.
I enjoyed the first part of the interview when I read it (last week?). I'll get around to this. It was nice seeing something on diii.net's homepage other than Tweet spam that we can just read out of a tracker.
@ Doomscream - I see.
@ AlexanderZero - It's just one of those things I guess. I did feel a slight pang when I read that part but then I thought... hey Blizzard has the chance to make a really visually powerful and unique symbol for Diablo (of course it will be hard designing something more powerful than the pentagram) but I'd like to see what they come up with. Crosses are a little bit more racey, as a direct connection to Christianity but they were also a torture device in history. But I can understand why it's not a great idea to include them.
Blizzard North's D3 may have been an MMORPG... I'm not quite sure what to make of that info. I like the general idea behind MMOs but after playing WoW and GW for a while I found them a bit boring. But that's not to say that an isometric Diablo based MMO would be bad.
I haven't looked into Rift at all, I just thought it was some generic RPG. I'll get around to checking out more of the articles later.
Crosses are symbols of extreme sacrifice and, when used in the occult, are sometimes perverted and used from an opposite standpoint. Inverted crosses.
Simply saying cross should go because one was used at one point in the bible (well, the story is retold by each epistle, but it's the same one) is, in my opinion, ignorant of the base fact of its popularity and worldwide recognition as a symbol, and of its potency as a conveyor of an immediate image, for good or ill. It's a potent symbol and should be used. The same goes for the pentagram--it has various powerful usages and meanings.
It's really just immature to me, actually. Refusing it is so ignorant of its rich literary meaning. In the same way Africans shouldn't be ashamed of their cultural past, so, too, shouldn't we of ours. That doesn't mean we have to accept everything in it, but it does mean we shouldn't attempt to erase it.
Ugh, rambling. Sorry. Crosses, pentagrams, other westernized occult and religions symbols are, to me, an important part of what it is that makes Diablo Gothic. Where does the term Gothic come from? The cathedrals, of course. Should we erase that term, too? Let's just make everything bland and generic and meaningless.
I agree with you and it is a shame indeed that it has come to this. It's another case of political correctness gone mad and the fans are the ones paying for it. I guess Blizzard would rather not risk some religious nut spreading a smear campaign stating that Diablo is all about burning corpses being crucified with pentagrams etched into their chest. I also thought that they wanted to come up with something original that relates better to Diablo, but crosses and pentagrams have already been established as symbols of Sanctuary, so this seems like more of an afterthought to support removing them.
It reminds me of when WW2 games edit the swastika out for the iron cross. It doesn't make sense in a game based on history but the symbol brings much hate into the world, at least in western society. This at least has some merit being only 70 odd years ago.
Did any issues arise from the other Diablo games? I'll do a quick search.
Interesting, already been discussed on these forums a bit...
Bashiok says that they want a unique fantasy world for Diablo (in so many words) here.
I can't find any sort of religious controversy surrounding the earlier games on the internet.
A compromise would work quite well I think. Imagine if they used symbols that looked like a cross, or a pentagram, but were more related to the lore in Sanctuary. So you would see it and think is that a Christian cross? and on closer inspection discover that it is inscribed with glowing runes or something.
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The other thing I didn't understand is what the whole focus on Rift was. That didn't have much to do with Diablo 3, other than maybe possible security measures Blizzard could do to protect items. Well, it's not needed. Blizzard already has authenticators for near perfect security. As well as other security like if your account is logged in from two far distance places, it's locked down and you get an email that Blizzard suspects your account was hacked.
The Rift servers have apparently already been hacked twice. Why should Blizzard copy them when WoW servers have never been hacked? Sure, players' computers are hacked and their stuff is stolen, but Blizzard's own servers have never been hacked. I think Blizzard has their security under control.
Now, don't get me wrong. I don't mind incgamers. I used to go to their site all the time when it was diabloii.net. Only thing I don't like is how slow their website seems to always be. I've heard it's in England though, so I guess that makes sense connecting from America.
Yeah, but it's called "Diablo Podcast". What does Rift have to do with Diablo? I can only guess it was about the security stuff. I meant copy the idea, not their actual code or anything like that. Of course Blizzard would implement it their own way. If Elly was talking about account hacks and not Rift server hacks, then I apologize for that. I must have misinterpreted her words.