I'm sorry but he's just a bitter little player that is crying to Blizzard for help.
Your whole statement was fine besides this. This part is unneeded and will just cause more arguing and hate toward one another.
You can explain what you dont like about his opinion without calling him a "bitter little player" and say he's "crying to Blizzard for help". It's a cheap shot, once again.
I don't see him crying to Blizzard for help, did he call their hotline, or write them a email, or possibly a letter?
He can voice his opinion in this forum without being subject to insults just like you or anyone else.
Just because you were to lazy and didn't do that extra MF run where that shako might have dropped or didn't do those extra mf runs when the Bnet was laggy or spent that extra hour on the trade channel does not mean I cheat people out of their items.
You see rude, flaming, and insulting posts lead to people being defensive and just arguments.
You can't agree on anything if you're both in the mind set of arguing.
Quote from MainLurker »
ppl relax don't take it personal it's just a game.
The last word is still of the devs.
Debate =good
Personal insults = bad
That's what I'm trying to promote, civil debate rather than petty insults that will just cause retaliation from other members.
Probably the most fun thing about Diablo 2 was the barter system. You people can argue all you want about having some sort of stable economy that should be based around a form of currency, but the bartering system is what made Diablo 2 so fun. Half that game is trading. If you haven't gotten to the point in diablo 2 where the main thing you do is trading, then you my friend haven't played diablo 2. Imagine if they implemented some sort of auction house. Oh, look! I found a sweet item. I'll go and put this on the auction house. Hrm..I guess I just need to wait now. Does that really sound fun? Even if there isn't an auction house I could simply make a game 120g for Shibby Baba's sword. Bam someone joins..Hey..Hey you got Baba sword? Ya...Okay heres 120g..thanks..bye..bye. Everything has a definite price. Everything is easily attained. Theres no trading up. Everything is Item = Certain Amt of Gold. That takes a game that toally revolved around trading to just a constant grindfest of killing meph/diablo/baal/whoeverthehell the next farmable boss for items is. Trading allowed for massive amounts of interaction. Not to mention when you were able to get some great trade, it was way more rewarding then just finding some item. Hell without the bartering system, D3 in my opinion will be half the game D2 is.
The bartering system should stay the way it is. Bartering is Diablo.
You still can trade items for items...you can still shout again and again:
WTS sword of the titan +1-300 lightning dmg +5000 hp
No one tells you which currency to use, it's up to you.
Do you really think high lvls items will be sold for cash? unless cash will have really big meaning in the game, very high lvl items will be sold most likely for other item since it's uber rare.
It's better to have both options than only one. and Before you judge a system wait for more info on gold sinks.
Alot of people hate WoW, but that's one thing it did right, gold sinks. That and making gold hard to get, via adding in two more currencies, silver and copper. One hundred copper equals a silver, one hundred silver equals a gold. Granted, in Diablo it would probably have to be one thousand copper equals a silver and one thousand silver equals a gold to keep things down, but it would help emensly, rather then having 5million gold, you have 50 hard earned pieces of gold.
Oh, and get rid of GF... Seriously... Just defeats the purpose of an implemented currency...
Alot of people hate WoW, but that's one thing it did right, gold sinks. That and making gold hard to get, via adding in two more currencies, silver and copper. One hundred copper equals a silver, one hundred silver equals a gold. Granted, in Diablo it would probably have to be one thousand copper equals a silver and one thousand silver equals a gold to keep things down, but it would help emensly, rather then having 5million gold, you have 50 hard earned pieces of gold.
Oh, and get rid of GF... Seriously... Just defeats the purpose of an implemented currency...
I agree. Gold sinks are nice. Not saying we need mounts or something lame but I want to see gold have some value. It shouldnt just be a shiny decoration laying on the ground.
No one used GF in D2, and with currency in D3 it shouldn't be around anyway.
You still can trade items for items...you can still shout again and again:
WTS sword of the titan +1-300 lightning dmg +5000 hp
No one tells you which currency to use, it's up to you.
Do you really think high lvls items will be sold for cash? unless cash will have really big meaning in the game, very high lvl items will be sold most likely for other item since it's uber rare.
It's better to have both options than only one. and Before you judge a system wait for more info on gold sinks.
The same could be said of our economy. Your right bartering should exist in our economy, but do you see many people trading x for y out on the streets? Bartering rarely exists in an economy that uses currency because its too easy to not use it. It is true bartering should still exist in an economy that uses a form of currency, but look at any games that use gold as currency(Ahem WoW). How much bartering do you see?
The same could be said of our economy. Your right bartering should exist in our economy, but do you see many people trading x for y out on the streets? Bartering rarely exists in an economy that uses currency because its too easy to not use it. It is true bartering should still exist in an economy that uses a form of currency, but look at any games that use gold as currency(Ahem WoW). How much bartering do you see?
WoW is based on sets in the end game as far as I remember whoever didn't put certain set on was called a noob. sets are very specific and their properties were set in stone (like d2 it was taken from there after all).
But in d2 and I think at the end game of d3 uniques or some form of higher items will be the best of the best, and their properties will be randomized.
I think there will be item for item trade at end game since everyone will want the randomized %20 more crit item (as example) and it will be too much rare to simply trade it for cash...
And the economy will based on these items at the end game, in the long run.
Well yea it would be like the gold we have now.. I have 1M gold but to have smaller amounth of it I need to trade it for platinium so I have only 1000 platinium. Well thats only for realism imo. Would be pretty dumb to carry 1M cold coins if u can trade it for more valuable and carry less
It could work, but I think it'd greatly decrease the personal type of trading, and create a constant struggle to beat other peoples low prices on items. It's very iffy, it could ruin the economy (assuming D3 actually HAS a economy unlike D2).
I'm not even going to read the rest of the posts before I answer this : In order for a free market economy to function(besides a miracle) you need for vendors to compete to offer lower prices. Otherwise, you have a market failure. The Idea that someone wouldn't be able to completely control the supply of goods should be viewed as a "threat" to an economy, but a requirement for it.
I think that the action house is a good idea, and just one step you could take to ensuring a perfectly stable economy.
Probably the most fun thing about Diablo 2 was the barter system. You people can argue all you want about having some sort of stable economy that should be based around a form of currency, but the bartering system is what made Diablo 2 so fun. Half that game is trading. If you haven't gotten to the point in diablo 2 where the main thing you do is trading, then you my friend haven't played diablo 2. Imagine if they implemented some sort of auction house. Oh, look! I found a sweet item. I'll go and put this on the auction house. Hrm..I guess I just need to wait now. Does that really sound fun? Even if there isn't an auction house I could simply make a game 120g for Shibby Baba's sword. Bam someone joins..Hey..Hey you got Baba sword? Ya...Okay heres 120g..thanks..bye..bye. Everything has a definite price. Everything is easily attained. Theres no trading up. Everything is Item = Certain Amt of Gold. That takes a game that toally revolved around trading to just a constant grindfest of killing meph/diablo/baal/whoeverthehell the next farmable boss for items is. Trading allowed for massive amounts of interaction. Not to mention when you were able to get some great trade, it was way more rewarding then just finding some item. Hell without the bartering system, D3 in my opinion will be half the game D2 is.
The bartering system should stay the way it is. Bartering is Diablo.
While ur spamming trade channel my characters are max level. I don't care to hang out in trade channel for hours. Then I find someone who is interested and I show him the item he brings his mule with loads of crap to the trade screen. No thanks another 10 minutes wasted. I would rather take his gold if it was of some value.. and it will be according to the blizz poster in wow d3 forum.
Very rare items wouldn't be traded for gold most likely but to other rare items. Auction house and gold value would help out new people at the start. They collect gold and don't know about what item is good and what is not. Most low level items are damn useless nowadays when people just get rushed => no need for twink gear. So when new player gains some gold at the start of the game, he could buy something usefull for himself instead of collecting bunch of garbage and then offering it to a pro trader who will laugh at him just because he don't know the item values yet.
I play classic hc ladder now and I see people trading stuff like magefists for 1.5 million gold. Many lower quality quite common items are traded for gold by high level people who most likely try to gamble them for +2 amulets. If you have a level 40 sorc and would like to have magefists what can you offer to level 90 character other than gold? Prolly some gems that he wont need either.
It's funny, everyone that claims that because it works in the real world it will work in a game also like it's already happened. Personally I have great doubt a gold economy would even work in D3, the reason it works in WoW is not only because of the gold sinks that are the mounts and stuff, but because items are a lot less diversified than in the Diablo universe. Also there is very little if any variations within the same items, unlike Diablo.
Because there's sooo many items in D2... There's CoH, Enigma, Faith, and....wait that's all for armour... Hmmm... Interesting...
Quote from "cbr" »
Blizzard has a lot to work for if they expect me and players like me to trade my items for something that any act1 normal monster drops, I expect relative equal value for my items and I really fail to see how they can make gold really worth something that you can trade items for.
Any act one normal monster would, hopefully, not be dropping hundreds of gold per monster. That's the point. That's the point.
Quote from "cbr" »
Also removing barter from the game makes the game as a whole a lot less fun. Tradeing and bartering your items was fun, putting items on AH for gold and waiting ... BORING. We have to admit Blizzard is really working on making D3 a snoozefest like WoW.
Because putting something up for trade in the AH and going and leveling or pvp'ing or even going outside is completely illogical?...
Quote from "cbr" »
As for the people that think a gold economy will be stable, that's the biggest joke there is. If anything it will make the economy less stable because it's that much more vulnerable to dupings, because it has a set currency. You think the HR dupings were bad? Just wait for people to dupe gold, duping gold is impossible you might say? I assure you duping gold is quite possible and has already been done, but just for fun since nobody wasted time actually duping it since it isn't worth anything.
Duping will hopefully be alot more difficult. Remember WoW? Remember all that awful duping going on in WoW? Of course not, because there is none. Why? Because Blizzard has learned from the past and now can get rid of duping on a large scale. Yes, there will always be some kid who figures out that if you do this and this and that and that then you can dupe, but Blizzard's not the Blizzard of 1998 anymore, they learned a thing or two.
Quote from "cbr" »
I'll just be the guy that will laugh all over the chat channels when the first gold duping comes around and the AH was cleared of all items using duped gold. We'll see how much gold will be worth than.
How about instead of saying that everything needs to be exactly the same as D2 and nothing change at all, how about helping think of ideas to improve the game?
Quote from "rejam" »
Whereas, had it been items that were duped, instead of gold, it would have no bearing on the economy?
When anything is duped it will effect the economy...
Exactly...
Quote from "rejam" »
I would still rather see it where items and gold were viable options for trade, but the only way is for gold sinks to get rid of all the money entering the economy and to provide value to it.
I think it would be wise to come up with reasonable gold sinks rather than argue over whether trading items or gold is better.
People don't want to change anything, thus they will argue against any change that may or may not be implimented...
Quote from "rejam" »
Some ideas might be:
-Consumables which can only be bought, not dropped. Prices could scale with level.I think that's already been implemented. Globes drop, potions are bought... I think...
-Crafting items could be done through and NPC, requiring both mats and gold.That would be a good idea. Make it so that you don't have the skill but Mr. NPC does.
-Gambling (obviously).I was never a gambler, but heard alot of people did gamble... I had a friend who's son sold all there top-line gear to gamble... I felt so bad for him...
-"Renting" extra bank space. (For example, it costs money in intervals to use additional tabs in your stash. If you dont pay the page gets greyed out and your items are frozen till you rent the tab again...random idea, sorry)I like that idea! That's pretty cool, have to spend like 1g a month for one tab, 5g for two tabs, 10g for 3 tabs, etc, to keep them open.
Quote from "rejam" »
They could also stop demons dropping gold altogether to be fair and rely on you finding treasure chests etc.
That could help alot too. Seriously, where the hell is a skeleton going to hold gold? is it ducktaped to his bones???
Quote from "cbr" »
That's perfectly true, the only problem is when something that has true value like an HR or some other top item gets duped, it still has value. A storm is still a storm even if it's duped. Gold on the other hand, not only can it be found everywhere, but I also doubt how effective the gold sinks can be. If they'll make gold be used for crafting and stuff well than I'll only craft will gold I find, since crafting is a pretty random thing, I'm not going to trade storm for gold than use that to craft for gloves. Unless they change crafting also and make it like WoW, where you know what you'll get, I don't see it as an effective gold sink.
Gold is useless on Diablo 2. Your exactly right. That's why we are TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT NOT USELESS.
Also, if you use only the gold you find while doing other things, then when you aquire 5 gold in one day and it costs 12 gold to do repairs, let alone the 47 gold to craft the mats you just worked all day to get into the "Uber Killing Short Sword of Pain and Suffering and Torture" then don't whine. Actually, go laugh like you said you would...
Let me guess ... you only played since the HR duping eh? Only somebody that never really played the game would count those overpowered monstrosities of items ALL. Those runewords should never have been created, Blizzard messed it up bit time.
Personally I like sigs and Tal Rasha sets, along with a few uniques. But when your using a set and Mr X has "OMGGAWDLYRUNEWORDOFDEATH SWORD" and your using a Bonechewer, yea.... Your dead... I would love for diversity, but it doesnt exsist. Not today. Not in D2.
Quote from "cbr" »
Let me direct you to the gameplay trailer, since cain is in the monestery we are in what will be Act1 what we also notice is that gold drops just like in D2. So please inform yourself before you reply to me again.
Yes. I saw that. Thats why I used the word "Hopefully". Please don't make me define "Hopefully". I don't much like defining words...
Quote from "cbr" »
So because there are still other things you can do somehow makes it ok to remove something fun and which lots of people enjoyed? What if they removed PvP and anti-pvp people would just say, well you can go exp your chars or trade more now. Do you think that is a fair statement? Just because they didn't remove everything fun from the game doesn't make it right that they removed some of it.
Which involves more? Spamming "WTS PENIGMA 4 PCoH" all day or actually playing the game?
Quote from "cbr" »
Oh no, WoW has all those nice gold farms and gold shops on the internet, WoW is clean and pure. The mere thought that creating an economy with that will collapse at the first duping with only the faint hope that nobody will ever find an exploit to abuse is irresponsible and foolish. Cheats and hackers have always existed and will always exist, you think D3 will be safe from botters? Don't make me laugh, if there isn't a bot out by the end of the first year of D3 I'd be shocked.
Of course it won't be safe, but Blizzard isn't going to sit around and pussy foot and pretend like everything's fine like they did with D2. They are working constantly to protect WoW, and we can only hope they do the same with D3.
Quote from "cbr" »
How about not removing stuff that people find fun, I find that to be a good place to start. Also they might also try to leave in things people won't be good at from the start since they'll have to work for it and get skilled at it. At the moments they are pretty much removing skill requirements across the board.
Quote from "cbr" »
People argue against bad change, just because it's change doesn't mean it's good. Personally I actually like the new graphics, I understand why some say it's to 'happy' for a lack of a better term but I like it. At first I defended Blizzard from the people that said they're making D3 a WoW clone, but the more and more Bashiok reveals the more I end up agreeing with the others. Until now the only D2 concept that was confirmed to stay in D3 is no BoP/BoE.
Well Bind on whatever is a bad idea. Always was. Shouldn't of even been on WoW. But that's beside the point. They are making Diablo 3 bigger and better and doing all they can to make it the best they can. Of course it's not gonna be a D2 clone, it's a sequel, thus it is supposed to improve on Diablo 2, take what D2 did and do it better.
"We can rebuild it. We can make it stronger, faster, smarter then ever before."
Quote from "cbr" »
What can't you understand that people want Diablo 3 NOT World of Diablo, is it hard to understand?
Because if there is even one idea from WoW, it's automatically World of Diablo, right? Listen, if you don't like Diablo 3, go play Diablo 2.
Quote from "cbr" »
I will laugh at the people that actually do this, I never trade downwards. I'll be the guy on trade that didn't waste his items on gold in hopes of crafting an uber something and I'll actually have something to offer to that 1 guy out of 5000 that actually managed to craft something good.
And he will be wanting something usefull, and you will be living in the past, thus unable to provide.
It's not that hard to understand...
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Your whole statement was fine besides this. This part is unneeded and will just cause more arguing and hate toward one another.
You can explain what you dont like about his opinion without calling him a "bitter little player" and say he's "crying to Blizzard for help". It's a cheap shot, once again.
I don't see him crying to Blizzard for help, did he call their hotline, or write them a email, or possibly a letter?
He can voice his opinion in this forum without being subject to insults just like you or anyone else.
Good day to you.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
The last word is still of the devs.
Debate =good
Personal insults = bad
Sentence of the year:
"WoW, It's like a disease"
You see rude, flaming, and insulting posts lead to people being defensive and just arguments.
You can't agree on anything if you're both in the mind set of arguing.
That's what I'm trying to promote, civil debate rather than petty insults that will just cause retaliation from other members.
Probably the most fun thing about Diablo 2 was the barter system. You people can argue all you want about having some sort of stable economy that should be based around a form of currency, but the bartering system is what made Diablo 2 so fun. Half that game is trading. If you haven't gotten to the point in diablo 2 where the main thing you do is trading, then you my friend haven't played diablo 2. Imagine if they implemented some sort of auction house. Oh, look! I found a sweet item. I'll go and put this on the auction house. Hrm..I guess I just need to wait now. Does that really sound fun? Even if there isn't an auction house I could simply make a game 120g for Shibby Baba's sword. Bam someone joins..Hey..Hey you got Baba sword? Ya...Okay heres 120g..thanks..bye..bye. Everything has a definite price. Everything is easily attained. Theres no trading up. Everything is Item = Certain Amt of Gold. That takes a game that toally revolved around trading to just a constant grindfest of killing meph/diablo/baal/whoeverthehell the next farmable boss for items is. Trading allowed for massive amounts of interaction. Not to mention when you were able to get some great trade, it was way more rewarding then just finding some item. Hell without the bartering system, D3 in my opinion will be half the game D2 is.
The bartering system should stay the way it is. Bartering is Diablo.
I enjoyed bartering however I didn't enjoy gold being useless, if they could make both work, awesome.
WTS sword of the titan +1-300 lightning dmg +5000 hp
No one tells you which currency to use, it's up to you.
Do you really think high lvls items will be sold for cash? unless cash will have really big meaning in the game, very high lvl items will be sold most likely for other item since it's uber rare.
It's better to have both options than only one. and Before you judge a system wait for more info on gold sinks.
Sentence of the year:
"WoW, It's like a disease"
Oh, and get rid of GF... Seriously... Just defeats the purpose of an implemented currency...
I agree. Gold sinks are nice. Not saying we need mounts or something lame but I want to see gold have some value. It shouldnt just be a shiny decoration laying on the ground.
No one used GF in D2, and with currency in D3 it shouldn't be around anyway.
poor girl
yea I know it's gold find but I just had to do it! sue me.
Sentence of the year:
"WoW, It's like a disease"
My girlfriend is pregnant, so I'll keep her around.
I couldn't figure out what GF was at first either, lets face it nearly no one used it.
The same could be said of our economy. Your right bartering should exist in our economy, but do you see many people trading x for y out on the streets? Bartering rarely exists in an economy that uses currency because its too easy to not use it. It is true bartering should still exist in an economy that uses a form of currency, but look at any games that use gold as currency(Ahem WoW). How much bartering do you see?
WoW is based on sets in the end game as far as I remember whoever didn't put certain set on was called a noob. sets are very specific and their properties were set in stone (like d2 it was taken from there after all).
But in d2 and I think at the end game of d3 uniques or some form of higher items will be the best of the best, and their properties will be randomized.
I think there will be item for item trade at end game since everyone will want the randomized %20 more crit item (as example) and it will be too much rare to simply trade it for cash...
And the economy will based on these items at the end game, in the long run.
Sentence of the year:
"WoW, It's like a disease"
And if anyone has anything against this, then I say to you: BFD.
What the hell would this accomplish?
Words I hate in Gaming Culture:
Epic
Hardcore
E-Sports
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
I'm not even going to read the rest of the posts before I answer this : In order for a free market economy to function(besides a miracle) you need for vendors to compete to offer lower prices. Otherwise, you have a market failure. The Idea that someone wouldn't be able to completely control the supply of goods should be viewed as a "threat" to an economy, but a requirement for it.
I think that the action house is a good idea, and just one step you could take to ensuring a perfectly stable economy.
Very rare items wouldn't be traded for gold most likely but to other rare items. Auction house and gold value would help out new people at the start. They collect gold and don't know about what item is good and what is not. Most low level items are damn useless nowadays when people just get rushed => no need for twink gear. So when new player gains some gold at the start of the game, he could buy something usefull for himself instead of collecting bunch of garbage and then offering it to a pro trader who will laugh at him just because he don't know the item values yet.
I play classic hc ladder now and I see people trading stuff like magefists for 1.5 million gold. Many lower quality quite common items are traded for gold by high level people who most likely try to gamble them for +2 amulets. If you have a level 40 sorc and would like to have magefists what can you offer to level 90 character other than gold? Prolly some gems that he wont need either.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Because there's sooo many items in D2... There's CoH, Enigma, Faith, and....wait that's all for armour... Hmmm... Interesting...
Any act one normal monster would, hopefully, not be dropping hundreds of gold per monster. That's the point. That's the point.
Because putting something up for trade in the AH and going and leveling or pvp'ing or even going outside is completely illogical?...
Duping will hopefully be alot more difficult. Remember WoW? Remember all that awful duping going on in WoW? Of course not, because there is none. Why? Because Blizzard has learned from the past and now can get rid of duping on a large scale. Yes, there will always be some kid who figures out that if you do this and this and that and that then you can dupe, but Blizzard's not the Blizzard of 1998 anymore, they learned a thing or two.
How about instead of saying that everything needs to be exactly the same as D2 and nothing change at all, how about helping think of ideas to improve the game?
Exactly...
People don't want to change anything, thus they will argue against any change that may or may not be implimented...
That could help alot too. Seriously, where the hell is a skeleton going to hold gold? is it ducktaped to his bones???
Gold is useless on Diablo 2. Your exactly right. That's why we are TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE IT NOT USELESS.
Also, if you use only the gold you find while doing other things, then when you aquire 5 gold in one day and it costs 12 gold to do repairs, let alone the 47 gold to craft the mats you just worked all day to get into the "Uber Killing Short Sword of Pain and Suffering and Torture" then don't whine. Actually, go laugh like you said you would...
Personally I like sigs and Tal Rasha sets, along with a few uniques. But when your using a set and Mr X has "OMGGAWDLYRUNEWORDOFDEATH SWORD" and your using a Bonechewer, yea.... Your dead... I would love for diversity, but it doesnt exsist. Not today. Not in D2.
Yes. I saw that. Thats why I used the word "Hopefully". Please don't make me define "Hopefully". I don't much like defining words...
Which involves more? Spamming "WTS PENIGMA 4 PCoH" all day or actually playing the game?
Of course it won't be safe, but Blizzard isn't going to sit around and pussy foot and pretend like everything's fine like they did with D2. They are working constantly to protect WoW, and we can only hope they do the same with D3.
Well Bind on whatever is a bad idea. Always was. Shouldn't of even been on WoW. But that's beside the point. They are making Diablo 3 bigger and better and doing all they can to make it the best they can. Of course it's not gonna be a D2 clone, it's a sequel, thus it is supposed to improve on Diablo 2, take what D2 did and do it better.
"We can rebuild it. We can make it stronger, faster, smarter then ever before."
Because if there is even one idea from WoW, it's automatically World of Diablo, right? Listen, if you don't like Diablo 3, go play Diablo 2.
And he will be wanting something usefull, and you will be living in the past, thus unable to provide.
It's not that hard to understand...