I think most people here think of possible Diablo guns as modern guns - or as Warcrft 3 guns that shoot as modern shotguns... bang, bang, bang!
I'm 100% against guns IF they are modern-like, WC-like, or evensteam-punk style (see the RPG Castle Falkenstein or Will Smith's Wild Wild West); these wouldn't fit Diablo and would ruin the game.
However, I'm OK with arquebus/muskets style guns IF they are implemented to be mainly an early game weapon option, like the crossbow, but dealing even more damage and being even slower to refire - including animation of a... "simplified" version of the reloading process. Also, lots of smoke are a must; no smoke = no guns, imo.
Maybe two or three unique magic arquebus/muskets like those very strong unique crossbows that no one uses because there's even better stuff... besides, WHO used crossbows in D2? They don't fit the amazon style - plus, she does better with the speed of bows that the punch of crossbows - and other classes have no skills to combo with them for great pwnage.
The same would happen with arquebus/muskets... a bit of entertainment when all weapons are roughly equally effective (aka: early game), that fade into oblivion. Plus, primitive guns (I said PRIMITIVE GUNS) would not completely obliterate/ruin the gothic/dark/shadowy/creepy feel of Diablo. Play the RPG Ravenloft or watch the movie Sleepy Hollow and see that it fits ok.
Below, 2 videos showing primitive muskets; take a loot, it's cool and actually I'd like to fire one of these in the beggining of D3 when playing a Knight ^^
Heh, it would be cool if there was a specific type of Amazon class that could specialize in guns. Gun Mastery. They could reload faster whereas other classes would be useless with a gun.
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It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
i was over exagerating things pss... i also think it about some assasin shoting knifes but even if is a little steel ball is a gun anyways .. and keeping the idea of guns in diablo and using armors loose scense also using axes and swords cause some can shoot that is adaptating need to the game be more real no ? , i mean if you where a man and you can choose a sort of light weight fire gun or a heavy armor-sowrd-shield what would you choose ?
its know that the fire gun (even low powder) penetrates the shieds and armors ... making heavy armors dissapear
The little cannons are guns, they just resemble little cannons compared to modern day technology.
According to Larzuk's words.
Exactly.
This is a cannon I would expect:
This is a gun I would expect:
These are guns that somehow you all are thinking of:
We (Me and Alpha) are talking about historically accurate guns that would fit the time frame and the era and bring a bigger sense of realism to the game, not gattaling guns
Does diablo's time era have any relation with our own world?? how do we know what technological advancements they could come up with, or not come up with... honestly its up to blizzard.. i know they will make the right decision
Does diablo's time era have any relation with our own world?? how do we know what technological advancements they could come up with, or not come up with... honestly its up to blizzard.. i know they will make the right decision
We (Me and Alpha) are talking about historically accurate guns that would fit the time frame and the era and bring a bigger sense of realism to the game, not gattaling guns
acording to your own word of realism and age there is no need to use armors cause that hits way stronger than a arrow or a trowing knife , and the uses of heavy armors and sword/shield will be lost.
that what actualy happened in our real history.
anyways after the ninvention of the weapon (gun) appered the machine gun taht where handed rotation not to late before first type of fire guns.
acording to your own word of realism and age there is no need to use armors cause that hits way stronger than a arrow or a trowing knife , and the uses of heavy armors and sword/shield will be lost.
that what actualy happened in our real history.
Bows were for a long time supperior to hand cannons. Hand cannons evolved because siege cannons evolved. Siege cannons evolved because of the obvious superiority to the catapult that would move after every firing (the sieve cannon would not move) and the easier to fire and move to a new enemy entrenchment (the trebuchet, while not moving, had to be taken appart to move from one place to another).
And on a side note: British long bows could easily pierce heavy armours, as could some of the more powerful crossbows. In fact, crossbows were viewed as you are viewing guns, a weapon that would require very little skill. The difference is that crossbows were easier to use then guns of the era.
If memory serves right, crossbows were outlawed by one of the popes of the time...
[Sarcasm]I should make a thread to get crossbows out of Diablo![/Sarcasm]
Quote from "nikkao" »
anyways after the ninvention of the weapon (gun) appered the machine gun taht where handed rotation not to late before first type of fire guns.
That would be approximately the American Civil War era, thus untrue.
Quote from "nikkao" »
so no thanks but no.^_^
Your own choice. I for one don't want Enigma's in Diablo 2, but it's there anyway. *Shrug.*
if you where a man and you can choose a sort of light weight fire gun or a heavy armor-sowrd-shield what would you choose ?
its know that the fire gun (even low powder) penetrates the shieds and armors ... making heavy armors dissapear
anyone ?
Think: this kinda stuff was hard and costly to make back than, and was very uncommon - only military and nobility had access, and IIRC even then guns were used as tactical weapons (aka: bows for the bulk of ranged infantry/cavalry, crossbow divisions for dealing with specific enemie divisions - maily better armored ones - and arquebus for specific targets like captains in full plate armor, etc).
Armor only declined when firearms started to be produced in high numbers and eventually massed; in Sanctuary they would be more an exotic new stuff than common weapons of war - normally I wouldn't like to see them being dropped as if they were common, but every low demon dropping magic weapons doesn't make much sense as well, yet there it is for our amusement :thumbsup:
Resuming: heavy armor doen't disappear, because for every rare time a knight in sanctuary will face a gunner (if it happens at all), he will fight hundreds of other warrrors sing swords, shields, bows, etc. Besides, Sanctuary is not depicted as a world where humans fight each other very regularly, being assaulted by demonic forces as it is... better use the exotic new firearms to blow demons
well if we wana go that route then get rid of armor in D3. crossbows raped knights on horseback, it was hilarious, armor was useless, so according to you there still should be no armor. Everything should be crossbows , cannons and longbows that take 2 men to operate.... Sounds like Diablo series has a competitor if you were to ever make a hack n slash.
I can see very primitive guns being incorporated in some elements of the story and possibly in a "rogue" class if we get one. I wouldn't really mind it, since I don't do Rogues... I still to sorcs' n' melee.
But yeah, primitive cannons and the like sound workable, Linkx. Too bad these **censor** seem to think Bliz would put in AK47's.
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That's right, Diablo is semi-realistic, not hardcore real life. Common, what use would armor/shield have against a punch of Diablo? Those claws are BIG! Yet my paladin blocked a lot of Diablo's attacks when I got Herald of Zakarum.
Flawless realism is not a good excuse to bash guns - at least not the primitive ones. No modern/wow/steampunk guns, of course, they don't fit.
Armor/shield in Diablo is just so good - and also imbued with magic - that they reduce/block damage from crossbow shots, british long bow shots, musket gunshots and the Lord of Terror's BIG pointy claws, when they actually shouldn't, if we analise things realistically. Simple, eh?
ok i get the idea but even that thi first kind of machine gun 400 years later , if in 20 years can make a powder gun the unique diference besides the sort of machine guns is the ways its shoots while both gun has little diferences ...talking if can made a powder gun that time ago or in the game age ....
even that way if a arrow dosnt matter what kind a stuff shoot it hit harder than a powder gun (as you said it does) .... why use for ? .. is faster to shoot emm looks like it dosnt... is lighter ..yea could it be ... and the adventage ? range (and crossbows)? or is only for visual purposes ?
A - No firearms = great
B - Very slow primitive firearms with lots of punch and smoke = nice
C - Anything beyind that = furious demonic anger unleashed pon the Blizzard HQ (with torches and forks, of course)
I just posted all that in hopes that, if Blizz go option B, people don't scream "I'm not buying D3, it's f***d up". It's reasonable, imo.
Whats the advantage of using a bow and arrow when you can cast a spell that destroys everything on screen ala frozen orb/blessed hammer/etc or bring to life hundreds of skeletons to fight for you? Of course guns would be balanced with the rest of the weapons and there would be magical attributes just as there are for bows and swords. They may be only usable for one or two classes like daggers or bows, but they could be implimented, done well, and fit in the world.
Whats the advantage of using a bow and arrow when you can cast a spell that destroys everything on screen ala frozen orb/blessed hammer/etc or bring to life hundreds of skeletons to fight for you? Of course guns would be balanced with the rest of the weapons and there would be magical attributes just as there are for bows and swords. They may be only usable for one or two classes like daggers or bows, but they could be implimented, done well, and fit in the world.
ok this idea is starting to like me ...but only is balanced to keep the game in the same direction and only usable by some kind of hightech-bow specialist (talking in the game terms) or be a sort of skill atack from a bow/assasin/amazon class i could agree whit that.^_^
I'm 100% against guns IF they are modern-like, WC-like, or evensteam-punk style (see the RPG Castle Falkenstein or Will Smith's Wild Wild West); these wouldn't fit Diablo and would ruin the game.
However, I'm OK with arquebus/muskets style guns IF they are implemented to be mainly an early game weapon option, like the crossbow, but dealing even more damage and being even slower to refire - including animation of a... "simplified" version of the reloading process. Also, lots of smoke are a must; no smoke = no guns, imo.
Maybe two or three unique magic arquebus/muskets like those very strong unique crossbows that no one uses because there's even better stuff... besides, WHO used crossbows in D2? They don't fit the amazon style - plus, she does better with the speed of bows that the punch of crossbows - and other classes have no skills to combo with them for great pwnage.
The same would happen with arquebus/muskets... a bit of entertainment when all weapons are roughly equally effective (aka: early game), that fade into oblivion. Plus, primitive guns (I said PRIMITIVE GUNS) would not completely obliterate/ruin the gothic/dark/shadowy/creepy feel of Diablo. Play the RPG Ravenloft or watch the movie Sleepy Hollow and see that it fits ok.
Below, 2 videos showing primitive muskets; take a loot, it's cool and actually I'd like to fire one of these in the beggining of D3 when playing a Knight ^^
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=v-Eyb6bpjRo&feature=related
http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMbxZ1k9NQ
Uh... the video with the guy shooting 3 times is not very medieval, hehe. But the reloading animation could be like that, who knows...
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
its know that the fire gun (even low powder) penetrates the shieds and armors ... making heavy armors dissapear
anyone ?
Exactly.
This is a cannon I would expect:
This is a gun I would expect:
These are guns that somehow you all are thinking of:
We (Me and Alpha) are talking about historically accurate guns that would fit the time frame and the era and bring a bigger sense of realism to the game, not gattaling guns
Which is to include a BFG9000. AMIRITE?!
acording to your own word of realism and age there is no need to use armors cause that hits way stronger than a arrow or a trowing knife , and the uses of heavy armors and sword/shield will be lost.
that what actualy happened in our real history.
anyways after the ninvention of the weapon (gun) appered the machine gun taht where handed rotation not to late before first type of fire guns.
so no thanks but no.^_^
edit- hoorah for 4 shots per minute (during revolutionary war era, imagine earlier... 2 shots per minute maybe?)
Bows were for a long time supperior to hand cannons. Hand cannons evolved because siege cannons evolved. Siege cannons evolved because of the obvious superiority to the catapult that would move after every firing (the sieve cannon would not move) and the easier to fire and move to a new enemy entrenchment (the trebuchet, while not moving, had to be taken appart to move from one place to another).
And on a side note: British long bows could easily pierce heavy armours, as could some of the more powerful crossbows. In fact, crossbows were viewed as you are viewing guns, a weapon that would require very little skill. The difference is that crossbows were easier to use then guns of the era.
If memory serves right, crossbows were outlawed by one of the popes of the time...
[Sarcasm]I should make a thread to get crossbows out of Diablo![/Sarcasm]
That would be approximately the American Civil War era, thus untrue.
Your own choice. I for one don't want Enigma's in Diablo 2, but it's there anyway. *Shrug.*
Think: this kinda stuff was hard and costly to make back than, and was very uncommon - only military and nobility had access, and IIRC even then guns were used as tactical weapons (aka: bows for the bulk of ranged infantry/cavalry, crossbow divisions for dealing with specific enemie divisions - maily better armored ones - and arquebus for specific targets like captains in full plate armor, etc).
Armor only declined when firearms started to be produced in high numbers and eventually massed; in Sanctuary they would be more an exotic new stuff than common weapons of war - normally I wouldn't like to see them being dropped as if they were common, but every low demon dropping magic weapons doesn't make much sense as well, yet there it is for our amusement :thumbsup:
Resuming: heavy armor doen't disappear, because for every rare time a knight in sanctuary will face a gunner (if it happens at all), he will fight hundreds of other warrrors sing swords, shields, bows, etc. Besides, Sanctuary is not depicted as a world where humans fight each other very regularly, being assaulted by demonic forces as it is... better use the exotic new firearms to blow demons
But yeah, primitive cannons and the like sound workable, Linkx. Too bad these **censor** seem to think Bliz would put in AK47's.
Flawless realism is not a good excuse to bash guns - at least not the primitive ones. No modern/wow/steampunk guns, of course, they don't fit.
Armor/shield in Diablo is just so good - and also imbued with magic - that they reduce/block damage from crossbow shots, british long bow shots, musket gunshots and the Lord of Terror's BIG pointy claws, when they actually shouldn't, if we analise things realistically. Simple, eh?
even that way if a arrow dosnt matter what kind a stuff shoot it hit harder than a powder gun (as you said it does) .... why use for ? .. is faster to shoot emm looks like it dosnt... is lighter ..yea could it be ... and the adventage ? range (and crossbows)? or is only for visual purposes ?
to me keep has non scense yet ....
My idea is:
A - No firearms = great
B - Very slow primitive firearms with lots of punch and smoke = nice
C - Anything beyind that = furious demonic anger unleashed pon the Blizzard HQ (with torches and forks, of course)
I just posted all that in hopes that, if Blizz go option B, people don't scream "I'm not buying D3, it's f***d up". It's reasonable, imo.
ok this idea is starting to like me ...but only is balanced to keep the game in the same direction and only usable by some kind of hightech-bow specialist (talking in the game terms) or be a sort of skill atack from a bow/assasin/amazon class i could agree whit that.^_^
I'd try guns but... bleh. I'd feel like the game was slowly becoming Doom.