Ecutruin: interesting that you say that my argument about their snows system isnt a viable one because they dont want to Balance 2 different parrts of the game so to speak. Then, why develope this system? Right there you've Lost the argument because im sure it took time and budget to produce it. They've Said its easy and smooth for them, all they have to Do is numbercrunch abit and they can get Fair Balance with fairly Little developement and budget. snows is there for a reason. Balance is no longer a viable argument against why they shouldnt create competetive features and modes.
Actually, I haven't lost anything. They implemented snow in order to allow them to tweak both PvM and PvP (it's not only for PvP), and they plan on using the PvP side specifically to tweak the duration of disables. Balance still remains a good reason to not support more competitive PvP actually. To balance all abilities, they would have to keep a team specifically dedicated to balancing the various abilities and all the combinations specifically for PvP. Its something the developers themselves do not want to devote their time on and that is perfectly understandable.
They even have a finished competetive mode, lms, which they can go back to easily without consuming budget or time. Blizzard is ignoring a huge playerbase for the other playerbase. Why cant we have both? Casuals wouldnt be effected but the Community would grow and add more excitement. Im sure buying a pizza while spectating pros duking it out would be absolutely Amazing. It's a shame they deny us that Amazing, growing and awsome Community. I love watching a Good game with friends drinking a couple of beers and eating Good food. Even my gf who dsnt even play sc2 enjoys watching the big games. This Community brings People closer, sharing awsome progress and moments with your friends and be able to show those moments is awsome. Something that is also denied.
Honestly, I don't generally see that kind of community grow out of highly competitive PvP. Competitive play usually leads to aggression and as such tends to breed a negative community. I won't say that such situations don't happen, but the overall effect is generally negative in my experience.
As for them having a finished competitive mode...this is the first I've heard of it. They don't have a hostility or duel system in the game, they don't even have Arena finished and implemented yet. So, what is this mode you talk about?
As for why you cannot 'have both', perhaps because the developers DO NOT WANT their game focused around PvP. We are getting PvP, however, it is not designed to overshadow the PvM as the PvM is the focus of the game. Its a more casual PvP experience that allows people to enjoy killing other players in between Inferno attempts. Just because its a more casually focused system, doesn't make it bad. It may make it something you're not interested in...but quite a bit of the community IS interested in it.
"The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it." -George Washington
In a game like Diablo, they would have to come up with a ton of PvM content to replace the PvP longevity for people. It would have to be pretty intense and interesting. Something that end game Diablo so far has failed to do. We will have to wait and see how Inferno plays out but from what I have seen it is just the same old crap just monsters take longer to kill. You might have to be a little more careful, but you can always outgear and outsmart the AI in a game like Diablo.
If what you said was true, no one would be playing D2 still, after all these years. Personally, the MF'ing aspect of Diablo 2 always drew me back to it, even during my hardcore WoW days. You don't need endgame when it's so easy to get a character rushed and for me, it was so unbelievably fun to gear a new character out within a day or two, something that's a bit harder in WoW.
For me, I would be perfectly fine with a slightly improved D2 PvP system. I don't even care about arenas. If anything, the people who are so gung-ho about PvP in WoW were the ones I liked playing with the least, and I wouldn't mind them staying away from D3. I would love nothing more than to fight real players outside of town just like the old days, but I seriously hope they stick to their guns and offer a very subtle PvP presence for this game.
PVP SUCKS WHEN IS ONYXIA
What reason do you have to make a new character in D3 haha? If you enjoy playing the same content over again for no reason other then just because then sure you can enjoy D3 PvM a ton and it will outlast the PvP. Do you also enjoy chasing red lasers on the wall?
"The foolish and wicked practice of profane cursing and swearing is a vice so mean and low that every person of sense and character detests and despises it." -George Washington
Says the guy who signed the 1793 Fugitive Slave Law which was, "the first to provide for the right of slaveholders to recapture slaves even in free states that had abolished slavery." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery Washington had some screwed up ideas about the relative levels of "mean and low" behavior.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
From what I have gathered I doubt there will be open world PvP. Impossible no , but highly unlikely since this will take away from PvE/M. If Bliz can pull off interesting arenas and keep them fresh then it will be great. If Bliz thinks releasing 3 arenas and thats it, then very bad.
Ecutruin: i Guess blizzard just is plain stupid and ignorant then. I honestly Believe that the casuals Will eat up their own Words later on when they suddenly get bored of meaningless pvp. As adon says, to enjoy this kind of pvp, you must enjoy chasing lasers on the walls and floors. Just make npcs to fight instead of players, that way casuals can feel like a million bucks beating a useless, bad programmable npc if they want to have fun.
So... enjoying the challenge of fighting other players in a Arena with matchmaking makes me stupid or something? What is the difference between Arena with ranking and Arena without ranking...except for the unneeded ego fluffing?... I'm sorry, I only see the lack of ranking as a positive thing.
No one is arguing that point. You're taking an extremist stance by equating putting PvM first necessitates completely neglecting PvP.
THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THE CASE. MAKE THE DAMN GAME THE BEST IT CAN BE. For fucks fucking sake.
Woah, relax there. You're taking quite an aggressive stance, and attacking people left, right and center. That's no way to have a discussion. Breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out. Alright, now that we're all civil...
It's been said and I'll just reiterate the fact. Co-op will always take precedence over PvP. That's just fact, and it's clear in the way the game has been developed. However, people are crapping themselves five shades of hysterical since PvP was dropped from release. This was surprising, because to me it meant that they're currently really dedicated to make PvP as enjoyable and thorough as it can possibly be.
For all intents and purposes, they didn't even have to add any PvP of any kind in the game. D2's 'PvP' was a small little option, and the game didn't even give a further crap about it. Now the are at least trying to make it more enthralling, and if they bring out more than one mode, then we'll benefit.
I'll tell you what I understand, you tell me what you understand.
We make [them] good, strong competitive games. StarCraft is one of the best examples.
= Starcraft is a competitive PvP game.
We definitely want there to be a PvP mode for PvP players, and we would like that mode to be a really serious, skill-based, very strong [aspect of the game]
= We want D3 to have PvP (we knew that from a long time ago).
I feel that on the side of all our games, we really try to make PvP games that cater to a competitive player, first and foremost
= We try to please competitive PvP players in all our games
But in terms of what our actual plans are for Diablo III, we don't have anything to specifically announce right now, mostly because we're still messing around with a bunch of different ideas.
= But we don't know about Diablo 3
edit : summary :
Starcraft is a competitive PvP game. We want D3 to have PvP. We try to please competitive PvP players in all our games, but we don't know about Diablo 3.
Now, your turn !
Thanks for clearing things up, competitive pvp players do need an outlet to let off their steam. But we are arguing over something that hasn't come out yet.
Actually, I haven't lost anything. They implemented snow in order to allow them to tweak both PvM and PvP (it's not only for PvP), and they plan on using the PvP side specifically to tweak the duration of disables. Balance still remains a good reason to not support more competitive PvP actually. To balance all abilities, they would have to keep a team specifically dedicated to balancing the various abilities and all the combinations specifically for PvP. Its something the developers themselves do not want to devote their time on and that is perfectly understandable.
Honestly, I don't generally see that kind of community grow out of highly competitive PvP. Competitive play usually leads to aggression and as such tends to breed a negative community. I won't say that such situations don't happen, but the overall effect is generally negative in my experience.
As for them having a finished competitive mode...this is the first I've heard of it. They don't have a hostility or duel system in the game, they don't even have Arena finished and implemented yet. So, what is this mode you talk about?
As for why you cannot 'have both', perhaps because the developers DO NOT WANT their game focused around PvP. We are getting PvP, however, it is not designed to overshadow the PvM as the PvM is the focus of the game. Its a more casual PvP experience that allows people to enjoy killing other players in between Inferno attempts. Just because its a more casually focused system, doesn't make it bad. It may make it something you're not interested in...but quite a bit of the community IS interested in it.
Says the guy who signed the 1793 Fugitive Slave Law which was, "the first to provide for the right of slaveholders to recapture slaves even in free states that had abolished slavery." --http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington_and_slavery Washington had some screwed up ideas about the relative levels of "mean and low" behavior.
So... enjoying the challenge of fighting other players in a Arena with matchmaking makes me stupid or something? What is the difference between Arena with ranking and Arena without ranking...except for the unneeded ego fluffing?... I'm sorry, I only see the lack of ranking as a positive thing.
It's been said and I'll just reiterate the fact. Co-op will always take precedence over PvP. That's just fact, and it's clear in the way the game has been developed. However, people are crapping themselves five shades of hysterical since PvP was dropped from release. This was surprising, because to me it meant that they're currently really dedicated to make PvP as enjoyable and thorough as it can possibly be.
For all intents and purposes, they didn't even have to add any PvP of any kind in the game. D2's 'PvP' was a small little option, and the game didn't even give a further crap about it. Now the are at least trying to make it more enthralling, and if they bring out more than one mode, then we'll benefit.
Thanks for clearing things up, competitive pvp players do need an outlet to let off their steam. But we are arguing over something that hasn't come out yet.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ndstad?feature=mhee
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