We have a safe trade system, it's called the in game trading window.
They don't to introduce anything else.
They do. How do we get in contact with people we want and agree to trade with other than spamming the trade window? In D2 I only traded with a small group (10-12) people on a small forum no one knew about, guess its going to revert back to that unless they introduce some new system.
We have a safe trade system, it's called the in game trading window.
They don't to introduce anything else.
Just for the record, the trading window isn't exactly "safe." Many people get scammed through in-game trades. It's definitely something people should be concerned about. AH scams were non-existent because it was a double-blind system. Person-to-person scams will become more prevelant without the AH, there's no doubt about it. They're flying under-the-radar right now because of the AH... because people DO have a legitemately scam-free way to trade.
What they need to introduce is some way to make it that people can trade WITHOUT pressing alt-tab. I don't even want to trade, honestly, but I can already see how much of a train wreck it would be attempting to trade in D3 with a couple million other people... all simultaneously. The game is simply not built to handle that at the moment and they definitely need to do something to make it remotely workable. If they don't then there's absolutely no point to having trading in the game, and that would definitely be sad.
Edit : the actual problem is the distribution and rarity of loot. Which was in place to make the game at least midely challenging for a short while. Which I am fine with, but apparently many people are not. They want the eeasy mode that D2 was just so that they can feel superior with the shiny little sword they found themself.
Just so I understand you - you were fine with hours upon hours, days even, finding nothing resembling an upgrade for your character? You were okay with finding class specific items that didn't roll the main stat your class needs to upgrade character? It was okay to find Legendary items (after hundreds of hours of gameplay) that were worse than Blue items?
Maybe that wasn't your experience. However, I don't think you can deny that those things DID happen to several thousand, if not millions of players.
I understand that you want a harder game and clearly you are not happy with the prospect of the game being changed to appease those that you feel complain too much. But I think you can understand; people wanted a change to the mechanics of the game that gave a little more reward for their time.
You're right, item rarity and distribution was the actual problem. In my opinion it wasn't designed to make the game hard - it was designed to make it easy for you to go to the AH and buy what you need. I think their are a lot of folks that would consider the Auction House as the "easy mode" that you are so unhappy about.
Just for the record, the trading window isn't exactly "safe." Many people get scammed through in-game trades. It's definitely something people should be concerned about. AH scams were non-existent because it was a double-blind system. Person-to-person scams will become more prevelant without the AH, there's no doubt about it. The game is simply not built to handle that at the moment and they definitely need to do something to make it remotely workable.
This.
This is what tells me they have a system to replace the Auction House with. One that is tuned to Loot 2.0 and the other changes to the game.
The current problem with the game is that you don't have to actually play the game at all to get the best loot in the game here is how it works:
1. buy game
2. buy 2 billion gold
3. buy 20 billion gold item off auction house for 2 billion gold.
4. sell item for 20 billion gold.
5. rinse repeat.
no need to play the game at all to get the items you want for a lvl 60 character. oh wait you haven't played 1 second of the game no problem. get someone to power level you for some arbitrary amount of gold and you don't care because you can just flip items all day and never actually have to farm to get the things you need. They might as well have made a game of just the auction house and nothing else.
There is an obvious problem with that considering that the D3 team actually wanted people to primarily play their game and use the auction house at their leisure not primarily play the auction house and play the game at their leisure.
If you watched the video, they specifically mentioned that the sheer "convenience" of the AH is what led people to play that rather than the game.
While they may do something, they don't have a new "awesome" trading experience up their sleeve. The whole problem with the AH according to them is that it's too convenient. The "fix" is to make trading a huge pain in the ass like it was in the D2 days, so that only a small handful of players who love bargaining so much to put up with that godawful system, will whittle their time away doing that instead of farming. (And even then, they will still acquire upgrades far slower than on a real AH, which extends the time it takes to hit the upgrade ceiling, etc.)
So far really their "replacement" are systems that were actually anethema to the "total randomness" of D2; class-tailored drops, rerolling specific mods. I expect more customization systems that don't rely on other players if anything.
While they may do something, they don't have a new "awesome" trading experience up their sleeve. The whole problem with the AH according to them is that it's too convenient. The "fix" is to make trading a huge pain in the ass like it was in the D2 days, so that only a small handful of players who love bargaining so much to put up with that godawful system, will whittle their time away doing that instead of farming. (And even then, they will still acquire upgrades far slower than on a real AH, which extends the time it takes to hit the upgrade ceiling, etc.)
No, the fix is to strike a good balance between convenience and exploitability. Blizzard tried a system where trading was a PITA... it had a whole bunch of annoying side-effects. Given that enough idiots trundle off to dodgy websites (and swear up and down that no such thing happened) for it to be a major cost to Blizzard, they either have to come up with a solid solution with minimal unpleasant side-effects, or throw in the towel and say "screw it, we don't do account. You're on your own". Honestly, they don't get nearly enough credit for being so tolerant of account compromises (and people are too damn hostile to the idea of just sucking it up getting an authenticator).
Edit : the actual problem is the distribution and rarity of loot. Which was in place to make the game at least midely challenging for a short while. Which I am fine with, but apparently many people are not. They want the eeasy mode that D2 was just so that they can feel superior with the shiny little sword they found themself.
Just so I understand you - you were fine with hours upon hours, days even, finding nothing resembling an upgrade for your character? You were okay with finding class specific items that didn't roll the main stat your class needs to upgrade character? It was okay to find Legendary items (after hundreds of hours of gameplay) that were worse than Blue items?
Maybe that wasn't your experience. However, I don't think you can deny that those things DID happen to several thousand, if not millions of players.
Yes I am fine with that, it's in the nature of random loot. It's how the game is supposed to be IMO.
I am just afraid that balancing the game around a removed AH and also introducing loot 2.0 will make the game into what WoW is now. Easy epic loot at every corner, lift a finger, get epic loot. I liked about D3 that it was actually hard to play and time consuming to gear up.
I understand that you want a harder game and clearly you are not happy with the prospect of the game being changed to appease those that you feel complain too much. But I think you can understand; people wanted a change to the mechanics of the game that gave a little more reward for their time.
You're right, item rarity and distribution was the actual problem. In my opinion it wasn't designed to make the game hard - it was designed to make it easy for you to go to the AH and buy what you need. I think their are a lot of folks that would consider the Auction House as the "easy mode" that you are so unhappy about.
It's not easy to go to the AH and just buy stuff. Stuff still has value, which you have to generate first by playing the game and finding stuff. People always say "you just buy everything in the AH" as if things in the AH are free. If that is the case, why isnt everybody walking around with 600k dps ?
Yes, a small minority throws 1000's of $ at the game just to buy stuff in the RMAH, but I cant imagine that being too many and I dont care about them at all. They have no influence on my enjoyment of the game. Removing the AH however has a huge influence.
If you watched the video, they specifically mentioned that the sheer "convenience" of the AH is what led people to play that rather than the game.
And yet, if they remove it, people will spend even more time playing trade channels rather than the game.
Unless the Loot 2.0 drops will be so great there will be no reason at all to use AH/trade. Which is quite bland for a lot of people.
I hope is that they make use of the vendors. Everyone could give up to 5 (or 10, or 12) items to the vendor with a fixed price tag; and then the vendor would display ~12 "random" items for their respective fixed price tags to you.
It would not allow for any search system, but it would offer a way to trade this awesome Manticore that you have no use for because neither you nor your friends play a DH. I think this is close to the idea of a trading post that has been mentioned several times.
Something like that. If they want me to go to D2JSP, the trade channel, or a dodgy 3rd party website, I won't trade ever again. :-)
That's pretty neat, i like the sound of it!
It's clumsy and complicated. Random offers sounds like refreshing the trade window for hours till you find something you need.
AH and stat search were the best things that happened to the ingame trading tool. Taking it away again is just making things more complicated.
Diablo 3 was my first of the series, so I don't know a Diablo without an AH. Not quiet sure how to feel about them removing it. But the majority of the feedback so far seems to be favorable so I hoping it will be a good thing. I'm just not exactly sure about what to do in preparation... buy gems? stock up on some gold?
It's clumsy and complicated. Random offers sounds like refreshing the trade window for hours till you find something you need.
AH and stat search were the best things that happened to the ingame trading tool. Taking it away again is just making things more complicated.
Like you said in another thread: different opinions are different.
AH and stat search was the worst thing that ever happened to the overall gaming experience. Your awesome upgrade was just around the corner for a couple of gold coins and a few clicks, kinda in your face.
The "random" loot is what you get when you play the game, and "random" it should be at the vendor/trading market. Have you ever played D1? It was actually very much random, and a small chance to have the BiS items showing up at the vendor, and it was awesome. Have you ever played D2? Gheed was the definition of randomness with his gambling shop. And again, it was awesome and worked for many people.
Now those who really rather play the market than the game can create their sub-community, and to be honest, high-end gamers have already done that since the AH didn't offer any upgrades for them. So D2JSP will be it for you.
But all the casuals who were poisoned with the omnipresence of the AH will be relieved.
The "random" loot is what you get when you play the game, and "random" it should be at the vendor/trading market. Have you ever played D1? It was actually very much random, and a small chance to have the BiS items showing up at the vendor, and it was awesome. Have you ever played D2? Gheed was the definition of randomness with his gambling shop. And again, it was awesome and worked for many people.
Now those who really rather play the market than the game can create their sub-community, and to be honest, high-end gamers have already done that since the AH didn't offer any upgrades for them. So D2JSP will be it for you.
Yes I played D1 and D2, 20 and 15 years ago. And that's exactly how they feel, outdated.
Gheed was indeed very random, and that is also why people didnt gamble unless they had way too much gold. Most people farmed bosses, where drops were kinda guaranteed. Gheed was only the gold sink once you hit the cap on your stash and your chars.
I did trade a lot in d2 in forums and stuff, but it is exactly what you always say, its playing the trade platforms instead of playing the game. With the ingame AH you actually had more time to play the game than before. But you dont seem to get that.
I was very happy that i did not have to go to d2jsp any more in D3. It's way too much hassle. I dont wanna do it again, i did it for like 10 years in d2. I will rather quit than go back to a 15 years old trade method.
But as you said, that's just me. People who didnt experience all this shit 10 - 15 years ago may still look forward to this.
So I guess you would love a game without item drops, just random gold drops (some very low, some huge) and you buy all your gear from vendors, because this is what d3 is right now.
It boils down to this anyway. As long as trading is possible, all the pixels you collect are nothing more than trade value. What form this value has does not matter much to me. Even items that you can equip at the moment you find them will become trade value once you find a upgrade.
Only way to get rid of this is to forbid trading, and I would not want to play such a game.
I did trade a lot in d2 in forums and stuff, but it is exactly what you always say, its playing the trade platforms instead of playing the game. With the ingame AH you actually had more time to play the game than before. But you dont seem to get that.
I totally get that, but there's a huuuuuuuuge amount of people who, unlike you, never traded in D2, were kind of pushed into trading with the D3 AH in their face, and found out that it negatively affected their gaming experience.
I was very happy that i did not have to go to d2jsp any more in D3. It's way too much hassle. I dont wanna do it again, i did it for like 10 years in d2. I will rather quit than go back to a 15 years old trade method.
At first, I was happy about the AH, too. I thought of it as a great opportunity, in particular in combination with the fact that you could switch skills in a second and didn't have to level up a new character. Let me buy this gear, let me switch specs, and try stuff out.
But along with it, eventually I discovered that I didn't find upgrades in the game anymore, because the AH was quicker, more convenient, and less time-consuming. So we kept on buying new stuff rather than waiting for an upgrade to drop.
But as you said, that's just me. People who didnt experience all this shit 10 - 15 years ago may still look forward to this.
I did experience all this "shit" not just 10-15, but actually ~18 years ago already, and after a comparison of what "shit" I experienced in all 3 Diablos, I want to go back (even before the AH removal announcement I decided to turn self-found in RoS). It's just different experiences. But since you already said that you traded in D2, you're coming from a different background. I played D2 just like D1 - with my friends and limited to no trading.
The "random" loot is what you get when you play the game, and "random" it should be at the vendor/trading market. Have you ever played D1? It was actually very much random, and a small chance to have the BiS items showing up at the vendor, and it was awesome. Have you ever played D2? Gheed was the definition of randomness with his gambling shop. And again, it was awesome and worked for many people.
Now those who really rather play the market than the game can create their sub-community, and to be honest, high-end gamers have already done that since the AH didn't offer any upgrades for them. So D2JSP will be it for you.
Yes I played D1 and D2, 20 and 15 years ago. And that's exactly how they feel, outdated.
Gheed was indeed very random, and that is also why people didnt gamble unless they had way too much gold. Most people farmed bosses, where drops were kinda guaranteed. Gheed was only the gold sink once you hit the cap on your stash and your chars.
I did trade a lot in d2 in forums and stuff, but it is exactly what you always say, its playing the trade platforms instead of playing the game. With the ingame AH you actually had more time to play the game than before. But you dont seem to get that.
I was very happy that i did not have to go to d2jsp any more in D3. It's way too much hassle. I dont wanna do it again, i did it for like 10 years in d2. I will rather quit than go back to a 15 years old trade method.
But as you said, that's just me. People who didnt experience all this shit 10 - 15 years ago may still look forward to this.
Dont trade then. No one is forcing you to trade. It boils down to blizzard wants people to play the game and not the market. With the AH up people will be more inclined to play the market instead of the game.
As a more casual D3 player who played D1/2 back in the day, the AH was the main thing that turned me off from D3.
If they have to replace the AH with something, then I'd like to see a TRADING system that:
1) Requires the player to be on-line for their items to show up in the listings,
2) Allows you to flag items in your inventory as available for sale and/or trade,
3) BIN price can be set, with the option for accepting offers (trades or buy for gold) in real-time.
4) Provide some obfuscation of the player listing the item so you don't get spammed / griefed by someone unhappy that you won't accept their offer of 1g for your Unobtanium Level 5000 Helm that is clearly worth at least 5g.
This would allow you to keep playing the game rather than sitting in the AH managing your inventory and auctions. It would also reduce the amount of stuff that you have to sort / search through when looking for items. And it would allow you to buy an available item "now" rather than waiting for an auction with no BIN or an absurdly high BIN to complete.
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They do. How do we get in contact with people we want and agree to trade with other than spamming the trade window? In D2 I only traded with a small group (10-12) people on a small forum no one knew about, guess its going to revert back to that unless they introduce some new system.
Just for the record, the trading window isn't exactly "safe." Many people get scammed through in-game trades. It's definitely something people should be concerned about. AH scams were non-existent because it was a double-blind system. Person-to-person scams will become more prevelant without the AH, there's no doubt about it. They're flying under-the-radar right now because of the AH... because people DO have a legitemately scam-free way to trade.
What they need to introduce is some way to make it that people can trade WITHOUT pressing alt-tab. I don't even want to trade, honestly, but I can already see how much of a train wreck it would be attempting to trade in D3 with a couple million other people... all simultaneously. The game is simply not built to handle that at the moment and they definitely need to do something to make it remotely workable. If they don't then there's absolutely no point to having trading in the game, and that would definitely be sad.
Just so I understand you - you were fine with hours upon hours, days even, finding nothing resembling an upgrade for your character? You were okay with finding class specific items that didn't roll the main stat your class needs to upgrade character? It was okay to find Legendary items (after hundreds of hours of gameplay) that were worse than Blue items?
Maybe that wasn't your experience. However, I don't think you can deny that those things DID happen to several thousand, if not millions of players.
I understand that you want a harder game and clearly you are not happy with the prospect of the game being changed to appease those that you feel complain too much. But I think you can understand; people wanted a change to the mechanics of the game that gave a little more reward for their time.
You're right, item rarity and distribution was the actual problem. In my opinion it wasn't designed to make the game hard - it was designed to make it easy for you to go to the AH and buy what you need. I think their are a lot of folks that would consider the Auction House as the "easy mode" that you are so unhappy about.
This.
This is what tells me they have a system to replace the Auction House with. One that is tuned to Loot 2.0 and the other changes to the game.
Blizzcon. That's when it will be announced.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
1. buy game
2. buy 2 billion gold
3. buy 20 billion gold item off auction house for 2 billion gold.
4. sell item for 20 billion gold.
5. rinse repeat.
no need to play the game at all to get the items you want for a lvl 60 character. oh wait you haven't played 1 second of the game no problem. get someone to power level you for some arbitrary amount of gold and you don't care because you can just flip items all day and never actually have to farm to get the things you need. They might as well have made a game of just the auction house and nothing else.
There is an obvious problem with that considering that the D3 team actually wanted people to primarily play their game and use the auction house at their leisure not primarily play the auction house and play the game at their leisure.
While they may do something, they don't have a new "awesome" trading experience up their sleeve. The whole problem with the AH according to them is that it's too convenient. The "fix" is to make trading a huge pain in the ass like it was in the D2 days, so that only a small handful of players who love bargaining so much to put up with that godawful system, will whittle their time away doing that instead of farming. (And even then, they will still acquire upgrades far slower than on a real AH, which extends the time it takes to hit the upgrade ceiling, etc.)
So far really their "replacement" are systems that were actually anethema to the "total randomness" of D2; class-tailored drops, rerolling specific mods. I expect more customization systems that don't rely on other players if anything.
No, the fix is to strike a good balance between convenience and exploitability. Blizzard tried a system where trading was a PITA... it had a whole bunch of annoying side-effects. Given that enough idiots trundle off to dodgy websites (and swear up and down that no such thing happened) for it to be a major cost to Blizzard, they either have to come up with a solid solution with minimal unpleasant side-effects, or throw in the towel and say "screw it, we don't do account. You're on your own". Honestly, they don't get nearly enough credit for being so tolerant of account compromises (and people are too damn hostile to the idea of just sucking it up getting an authenticator).
Yes I am fine with that, it's in the nature of random loot. It's how the game is supposed to be IMO.
I am just afraid that balancing the game around a removed AH and also introducing loot 2.0 will make the game into what WoW is now. Easy epic loot at every corner, lift a finger, get epic loot. I liked about D3 that it was actually hard to play and time consuming to gear up.
It's not easy to go to the AH and just buy stuff. Stuff still has value, which you have to generate first by playing the game and finding stuff. People always say "you just buy everything in the AH" as if things in the AH are free. If that is the case, why isnt everybody walking around with 600k dps ?
Yes, a small minority throws 1000's of $ at the game just to buy stuff in the RMAH, but I cant imagine that being too many and I dont care about them at all. They have no influence on my enjoyment of the game. Removing the AH however has a huge influence.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
And yet, if they remove it, people will spend even more time playing trade channels rather than the game.
Unless the Loot 2.0 drops will be so great there will be no reason at all to use AH/trade. Which is quite bland for a lot of people.
It's clumsy and complicated. Random offers sounds like refreshing the trade window for hours till you find something you need.
AH and stat search were the best things that happened to the ingame trading tool. Taking it away again is just making things more complicated.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Like you said in another thread: different opinions are different.
AH and stat search was the worst thing that ever happened to the overall gaming experience. Your awesome upgrade was just around the corner for a couple of gold coins and a few clicks, kinda in your face.
The "random" loot is what you get when you play the game, and "random" it should be at the vendor/trading market. Have you ever played D1? It was actually very much random, and a small chance to have the BiS items showing up at the vendor, and it was awesome. Have you ever played D2? Gheed was the definition of randomness with his gambling shop. And again, it was awesome and worked for many people.
Now those who really rather play the market than the game can create their sub-community, and to be honest, high-end gamers have already done that since the AH didn't offer any upgrades for them. So D2JSP will be it for you.
But all the casuals who were poisoned with the omnipresence of the AH will be relieved.
Yes I played D1 and D2, 20 and 15 years ago. And that's exactly how they feel, outdated.
Gheed was indeed very random, and that is also why people didnt gamble unless they had way too much gold. Most people farmed bosses, where drops were kinda guaranteed. Gheed was only the gold sink once you hit the cap on your stash and your chars.
I did trade a lot in d2 in forums and stuff, but it is exactly what you always say, its playing the trade platforms instead of playing the game. With the ingame AH you actually had more time to play the game than before. But you dont seem to get that.
I was very happy that i did not have to go to d2jsp any more in D3. It's way too much hassle. I dont wanna do it again, i did it for like 10 years in d2. I will rather quit than go back to a 15 years old trade method.
But as you said, that's just me. People who didnt experience all this shit 10 - 15 years ago may still look forward to this.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
The founder of Ebay must look at that statement in amazement
Err... Ebay, for one? I'm sure they have the capacity of handling a huge amount of transactions.
And where do the items in the ah come from ? Playing the game, you say ? And the wealth to buy items in the ah ? playing the game, you say ?
Sense, you make none ?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
It boils down to this anyway. As long as trading is possible, all the pixels you collect are nothing more than trade value. What form this value has does not matter much to me. Even items that you can equip at the moment you find them will become trade value once you find a upgrade.
Only way to get rid of this is to forbid trading, and I would not want to play such a game.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
I totally get that, but there's a huuuuuuuuge amount of people who, unlike you, never traded in D2, were kind of pushed into trading with the D3 AH in their face, and found out that it negatively affected their gaming experience.
At first, I was happy about the AH, too. I thought of it as a great opportunity, in particular in combination with the fact that you could switch skills in a second and didn't have to level up a new character. Let me buy this gear, let me switch specs, and try stuff out.
But along with it, eventually I discovered that I didn't find upgrades in the game anymore, because the AH was quicker, more convenient, and less time-consuming. So we kept on buying new stuff rather than waiting for an upgrade to drop.
I did experience all this "shit" not just 10-15, but actually ~18 years ago already, and after a comparison of what "shit" I experienced in all 3 Diablos, I want to go back (even before the AH removal announcement I decided to turn self-found in RoS). It's just different experiences. But since you already said that you traded in D2, you're coming from a different background. I played D2 just like D1 - with my friends and limited to no trading.
Dont trade then. No one is forcing you to trade. It boils down to blizzard wants people to play the game and not the market. With the AH up people will be more inclined to play the market instead of the game.
If they have to replace the AH with something, then I'd like to see a TRADING system that:
1) Requires the player to be on-line for their items to show up in the listings,
2) Allows you to flag items in your inventory as available for sale and/or trade,
3) BIN price can be set, with the option for accepting offers (trades or buy for gold) in real-time.
4) Provide some obfuscation of the player listing the item so you don't get spammed / griefed by someone unhappy that you won't accept their offer of 1g for your Unobtanium Level 5000 Helm that is clearly worth at least 5g.
This would allow you to keep playing the game rather than sitting in the AH managing your inventory and auctions. It would also reduce the amount of stuff that you have to sort / search through when looking for items. And it would allow you to buy an available item "now" rather than waiting for an auction with no BIN or an absurdly high BIN to complete.