It would be kind of pointless for Blizzard to make a ton of Uniques, all with unique art (probably models too), when they will never actually be used on finished characters. It is like a complete waste of time for something that will only be used for a few days and then thrown away for a generic randomized rare.
That's a good argument, but they would still be endgame viable(the uniques). I guess I just see rares benefitting everyone much better.
1. Rares give random stats, providing gear for unlimited builds. Uniques on the other hand can only provide for a limited number. (ultimately shrinking those 98 billion builds into far less)
2. Finding that one unique that is the best will end your search to replace that item, which makes the game dull(for me). With a rare, there is always the chance that a better one might drop, unless you somehow managed to find a prefectly rolled item with all the stats you want.
3. Rares add diversity to the game. Your hero starts to look less and less badass when everyone is using the same armor and weapon.
For me, rares add excitment, diversity and longevity to the game. Uniques are cool, but they aren't that cool when everyone has them.
If Rares are going to be the best, then things that used to be Unique (or set) specific must be turned into random modifiers for Rares, otherwise they won't always be better.
Yeah, I guess that could be a problem...
I guess it just depends on what type of stats are specific to uniques and sets. Until we know this there isn't much that could be said. I am with you though that I would like to see unique items have stats that rares can't have but not if they are important enough to make me HAVE to wear it. Perhaps crafted items could roll these unique stats while rares can not?
Also, how does it change the fact that there will always be a best item for your specific build? Everyone will still be using the same armor and weapon because that specific item gives the best bonuses. It doesn't matter if that item is randomized or has fixed modifiers, one item type will always be the best.
Not necessarily, classic is a good example of this. Everyone will be looking for similar items, yes, but ultimately they will be diffrent. My axe has 185% ed but yours has 190% ed, mine has 20 str yours has 17, mine has 5%LL yours has cold dmg, mine is named Blood Drinker yours is named Demon Blade, ect... All these variables make rares much more "unique" than uniques.
I can only speak for myself but in D2 when I find an awesome rare I feel pround, like this item is mine and no one else has it(even if they have an item with the same stats). When I find a unique yeah it is exciting, but everyone else has this exact item so its not so special.
If Rares are going to be the best, then things that used to be Unique (or set) specific must be turned into random modifiers for Rares, otherwise they won't always be better.
Also, how does it change the fact that there will always be a best item for your specific build? Everyone will still be using the same armor and weapon because that specific item gives the best bonuses. It doesn't matter if that item is randomized or has fixed modifiers, one item type will always be the best.
There is always going to be a best item for every build.
I like the way Eastern Sun mod for D2 has balanced the items. All item types including Magic can compete as end gear. Part of the balance is by using recipes that adds or increases a mod (D-stoning/Gem-melding/Forging) on the gear. The D-stoning/Gem-melding adds a level requirement to the item but that can be reduced with a very expensive recipe. The forging can only be done once and only on Magic or better gear.
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Also, how does it change the fact that there will always be a best item for your specific build? Everyone will still be using the same armor and weapon because that specific item gives the best bonuses. It doesn't matter if that item is randomized or has fixed modifiers, one item type will always be the best.
Not necessarily, classic is a good example of this. Everyone will be looking for similar items, yes, but ultimately they will be diffrent. My axe has 185% ed but yours has 190% ed, mine has 20 str yours has 17, mine has 5%LL yours has cold dmg, mine is named Blood Drinker yours is named Demon Blade, ect... All these variables make rares much more "unique" than uniques.
That's...nearly exactly how uniques are on expac. Most of them have varying stats, like Tgods (STR I believe) or Eschuta's (-Lit/Fire/Cold immunity on enemies, energy). Ormus's Robes have a random Sorceress +skill on them (Fireball, CL, etc.) as well as randomized spell damage modifiers. But, in any case, I think it's a moot point because, as Ophion said, everyone will only want certain stats on their rare item, and in actuality it would be the same as looking for a unique. Everyone will want the amulet that has +2 to all skills, 20 - 30 resist all, etc. Might as well just have a unique for it or eliminate uniques, altogether.
I also think that if rares have the bonus of being able to have any modifier, uniques need to have stronger static modifiers. Otherwise, again, there would be no point to having uniques in the game, since you could find the same stats on a rare item.
If uniques are just as powerful or weaker than rares, there's actually no point to having them, as there would already be rares that are equal or better substitutes for uniques. So, I think the solution is to have powerful unique items with an immensely larger difficulty to find them or remove them, altogether.
Now, what does this leave for rares? With the chance to have all the modifiers they do (and especially so in D3, since they can have powerful modifiers only previously on unique items in D2), more experienced players will trade for rare items and not uniques, since they will know exactly what they need out of all the modifiers. Uniques, by contrast, would be used by newer or mid-grade players because of their universality.
I wish uniques will be the most powerful and hardest to find, but i also want some rare items to be be able to match any unique, so that everyone is not hunting for all the same uniques and everybody end up with the same gear at the end of the game. Uniques would just be for the looks.
Everyone having the same gear is only related to the broadness of modifiers and the density of builds. If you have a lot of very different skill builds, different gear will be required for each. Similarly, if there are less broad modifiers (like + to all skills), we won't relive every caster wanting a CoH, Enigma, or Shako.
But if you do the math, one of those items will be better than the other for a specific purpose, such as damage or resistance. Rares might vary more, but there will still be an ultimate combination of modifiers + item type for your desired build.
There will for example be a body armor type that has gives most defense, let's say that it is the best tank armor. Every tank is going to want this armor, and even if they have completely different modifiers on their Rare armors, they will all look the same because the item type is the same.
Yeah, exactly, and rares will be able to mold into the ultimate items for all builds while uniques lack that quality (because of the limited selection).
As for everyone looking the same, in classic d2 it is hard to find any two characters that look exactly the same. Not to mention, even if you looked the same you're still wearing diffrent one-of-a-kind items.
Also, I second what Don said. He basically said what I was trying to say, but much better, haha!
Looking for a rare is not the same as looking for a unique. Uniques exist, they're guaranteed, they are going to be all over guides, etc. They are specific.
Randomized rare? No. What you'll see is "look for items with the following modifiers" which is how it should be.
It's random. You don't actually know if it's ever going to drop for you.
Most people will be carrying uniques. Uniques are the final items. Awesome rares are going to be super rare and maybe a few people will wear them. Probability of a randomized item giving you EXACTLY what you want? Don't kid me. And you won't find another item like that again. That's why I'm more interested in crafting because getting a rare to give you exactly what you want is a joke. And the problem with uniques is they're generally designed towards specific builds, and have specific combinations of modifiers. Rares would be more random, making them useless in most situations.
Voted for "Other". Crafting should be the final loot category.
I have a couple of questions regarding armor and item sets maybe someone could clarify. As far as base armor is concerned, does it increase resistance to all types of damage(poison, cold, fire etc.)or just physical?
I don't think anything has been said specifically on this subject but I am almost certain that base defense would affect physical only(this may, or may not be in the form of reducing dmg). There is a resistance stat (Fire res., Light res...ect.) that help deal with those other types of dmg.
Also, regarding finding/grinding for set/legendary items: will there be a specific area where you absolutely have to grind to find a certain item, whether set or weapon etc. This is how WoW is set up, you had to grind a specific dungeon to find a particular set of items(say tier 3 or tier 4 set or a weapon etc.).
For example i have two set items and need a specific slot(head/gloves)to complete the set. Will i have equal chance to get that item in any dungeon or will there be a single boss i have to grind to get it?
I don't think anything official has been said on this either, but it is not really in Diablo's nature to have this kind of loot system. I imagine it will be similar to D2's loot system where loot drops based off the monster/area level. For example, an item that has a lvl of 85 would not drop off a monster that is below lvl 85.
There will likely be multiple places to find the certain item you are looking for.
Also, will Legendary items only drop on a specific boss or will the chance of drops be spread across all dungeons/bosses? Will there be as much incentive to fight the Act 1 boss over just fighting the final Act Boss?
Legendaries are the new uniques in the world of Sanctuary, so I think we can expect the same type of system as they had in D2 (i.e. they have the same drop mechanic as other items). In D2 certain uniques had a better chance to drop off Andy or Meph than they did Diablo or Baal. Although I wouldn't be suprised if we saw something like "Diablo's sword of flames"(just a made up name) that is only able to drop off Diablo.
One more thing, will playing in a group increase the chance and quality of items that drop over playing solo and by how much? I know blizz said that they wanted to reward team play.
In D2, the more players you had in the game the better chance you had for loot. I see Diablo 3 having a similar system. However, with seperate loot for each player, they may get rid of this mechanic.
I did not look for any official info on any of this so I could be entirely wrong but I think most of it will probably be pretty accurate.
I think that the drops are going to be handled like it was in Diablo 2 with a possibility for some items to be dropped from a certain monster (act boss or quest boss).
I do not think the drop system is done until all the item affixes and the uniques/sets are done. It would be easier to finish the drop rate and the tables.
I think that they may implement a system that some items may have a greater bias in a certain map. The bias should not be much better and it should be a single item slot or crafting ingredient.
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On Strike and supporting Fallout 4 Mod Makers
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It's random. You don't actually know if it's ever going to drop for you.
Exactly what you're searching for may not drop for you, but it's going to drop for someone, who will then put it on the auction house or whatever.
I would also assume that rares will drop more than uniques, since the majority of them are going to be subpar. But hey what do we know.
I agree that crafting should probably be in the poll...well actually I don't really know anything about D3 crafting. Is it going to be like D2 crafting? (in terms of items produced, like you know what general mods to expect)
Most people will be carrying uniques. Uniques are the final items. Awesome rares are going to be super rare and maybe a few people will wear them.
I think Diablo 2 has it close to right.
I know I get a lot more jealous of someone when I see them wearing an amazing crafted/rare amulet as opposed to Mara's or something like that. Same thing with +Jav Skills gloves, great rare rings, tri-res boots, amazing circlets, claws, etc. Those things for a lot of people are the 'best' gear that they can get... It's just really, really, REALLY hard to find them. Much harder than the uniques.
I would like uniques to set the standard for what 'great loot' is, kind of like they do in Diablo 2 and then be able to find very rare crafted items/rare items/set items that go beyond those uniques... But those items should not be easy for everyone to find, they should be just as difficult as it is to find the amazing rares in Diablo 2.
That link you posted had a lot of info I didn't know, so thanks.
Do you have any info on how recipes will work? For instance, are the recipes themselves random, or will they be pre-set...like will we both find an "Axe of Death" recipe or will they work like rares?
Our ideal end game character will sport a mix of items found from drops, and crafted items.
Also keep in mind that to even be able to craft the best crafting items you'll have to find the recipe first.
Well what is new about the tweets is that he said that crafted sets were a distinct possibility.
And I think how they showed crafting working is that you'd have the recipe (I'll stick with Axe of Death), and on the crafting thing it'll say:
Axe of Death
X-Y Damage
X-Y Strength
etc
so that you have an Idea as to what the stats on the item are going to be, but then it uses the random prefixes and suffixes as well.
Ah, well you get the point. Crafting results in a sort of "restrained" randomization system. Like I know that in the crafting UI it showed some range of stats on the weapon/armor you wanted them to make, so you're more likely to get what you want, but at the same time you also have to wait for the actual recipe to drop beforehand. And I'm really excited to see how sets work out, as if crafted sets are "a distinct possibility," then I'd have to believe they have come up with some way to make it so you're not wearing mostly set pieces, if they are still sticking to what they previously said about what types of gear an endgame character will be wearing, which would make it seem like sets could be as small as two pieces, or otherwise they would take up too many slots for there to be variation in gear among characters.
Well they'd also have to be in the same level range. I mean you can have a level 10 item that says "of the Bear," and that same suffix can show up on a level 30 item.
That's a good argument, but they would still be endgame viable(the uniques). I guess I just see rares benefitting everyone much better.
1. Rares give random stats, providing gear for unlimited builds. Uniques on the other hand can only provide for a limited number. (ultimately shrinking those 98 billion builds into far less)
2. Finding that one unique that is the best will end your search to replace that item, which makes the game dull(for me). With a rare, there is always the chance that a better one might drop, unless you somehow managed to find a prefectly rolled item with all the stats you want.
3. Rares add diversity to the game. Your hero starts to look less and less badass when everyone is using the same armor and weapon.
For me, rares add excitment, diversity and longevity to the game. Uniques are cool, but they aren't that cool when everyone has them.
Yeah, I guess that could be a problem...
I guess it just depends on what type of stats are specific to uniques and sets. Until we know this there isn't much that could be said. I am with you though that I would like to see unique items have stats that rares can't have but not if they are important enough to make me HAVE to wear it. Perhaps crafted items could roll these unique stats while rares can not?
Not necessarily, classic is a good example of this. Everyone will be looking for similar items, yes, but ultimately they will be diffrent. My axe has 185% ed but yours has 190% ed, mine has 20 str yours has 17, mine has 5%LL yours has cold dmg, mine is named Blood Drinker yours is named Demon Blade, ect... All these variables make rares much more "unique" than uniques.
I can only speak for myself but in D2 when I find an awesome rare I feel pround, like this item is mine and no one else has it(even if they have an item with the same stats). When I find a unique yeah it is exciting, but everyone else has this exact item so its not so special.
There is always going to be a best item for every build.
I like the way Eastern Sun mod for D2 has balanced the items. All item types including Magic can compete as end gear. Part of the balance is by using recipes that adds or increases a mod (D-stoning/Gem-melding/Forging) on the gear. The D-stoning/Gem-melding adds a level requirement to the item but that can be reduced with a very expensive recipe. The forging can only be done once and only on Magic or better gear.
That's...nearly exactly how uniques are on expac. Most of them have varying stats, like Tgods (STR I believe) or Eschuta's (-Lit/Fire/Cold immunity on enemies, energy). Ormus's Robes have a random Sorceress +skill on them (Fireball, CL, etc.) as well as randomized spell damage modifiers. But, in any case, I think it's a moot point because, as Ophion said, everyone will only want certain stats on their rare item, and in actuality it would be the same as looking for a unique. Everyone will want the amulet that has +2 to all skills, 20 - 30 resist all, etc. Might as well just have a unique for it or eliminate uniques, altogether.
I also think that if rares have the bonus of being able to have any modifier, uniques need to have stronger static modifiers. Otherwise, again, there would be no point to having uniques in the game, since you could find the same stats on a rare item.
If uniques are just as powerful or weaker than rares, there's actually no point to having them, as there would already be rares that are equal or better substitutes for uniques. So, I think the solution is to have powerful unique items with an immensely larger difficulty to find them or remove them, altogether.
Now, what does this leave for rares? With the chance to have all the modifiers they do (and especially so in D3, since they can have powerful modifiers only previously on unique items in D2), more experienced players will trade for rare items and not uniques, since they will know exactly what they need out of all the modifiers. Uniques, by contrast, would be used by newer or mid-grade players because of their universality.
(In my opinion.)
Yeah, exactly, and rares will be able to mold into the ultimate items for all builds while uniques lack that quality (because of the limited selection).
As for everyone looking the same, in classic d2 it is hard to find any two characters that look exactly the same. Not to mention, even if you looked the same you're still wearing diffrent one-of-a-kind items.
Also, I second what Don said. He basically said what I was trying to say, but much better, haha!
Randomized rare? No. What you'll see is "look for items with the following modifiers" which is how it should be.
It's random. You don't actually know if it's ever going to drop for you.
Most people will be carrying uniques. Uniques are the final items. Awesome rares are going to be super rare and maybe a few people will wear them. Probability of a randomized item giving you EXACTLY what you want? Don't kid me. And you won't find another item like that again. That's why I'm more interested in crafting because getting a rare to give you exactly what you want is a joke. And the problem with uniques is they're generally designed towards specific builds, and have specific combinations of modifiers. Rares would be more random, making them useless in most situations.
Voted for "Other". Crafting should be the final loot category.
I don't think anything has been said specifically on this subject but I am almost certain that base defense would affect physical only(this may, or may not be in the form of reducing dmg). There is a resistance stat (Fire res., Light res...ect.) that help deal with those other types of dmg.
I don't think anything official has been said on this either, but it is not really in Diablo's nature to have this kind of loot system. I imagine it will be similar to D2's loot system where loot drops based off the monster/area level. For example, an item that has a lvl of 85 would not drop off a monster that is below lvl 85.
There will likely be multiple places to find the certain item you are looking for.
Legendaries are the new uniques in the world of Sanctuary, so I think we can expect the same type of system as they had in D2 (i.e. they have the same drop mechanic as other items). In D2 certain uniques had a better chance to drop off Andy or Meph than they did Diablo or Baal. Although I wouldn't be suprised if we saw something like "Diablo's sword of flames"(just a made up name) that is only able to drop off Diablo.
In D2, the more players you had in the game the better chance you had for loot. I see Diablo 3 having a similar system. However, with seperate loot for each player, they may get rid of this mechanic.
I did not look for any official info on any of this so I could be entirely wrong but I think most of it will probably be pretty accurate.
I do not think the drop system is done until all the item affixes and the uniques/sets are done. It would be easier to finish the drop rate and the tables.
I think that they may implement a system that some items may have a greater bias in a certain map. The bias should not be much better and it should be a single item slot or crafting ingredient.
Exactly what you're searching for may not drop for you, but it's going to drop for someone, who will then put it on the auction house or whatever.
I would also assume that rares will drop more than uniques, since the majority of them are going to be subpar. But hey what do we know.
I agree that crafting should probably be in the poll...well actually I don't really know anything about D3 crafting. Is it going to be like D2 crafting? (in terms of items produced, like you know what general mods to expect)
Also, crafting falls under the "other" option!!
I think this is pretty cool concidering crafted items do not have all pre-set stats.
I think Diablo 2 has it close to right.
I know I get a lot more jealous of someone when I see them wearing an amazing crafted/rare amulet as opposed to Mara's or something like that. Same thing with +Jav Skills gloves, great rare rings, tri-res boots, amazing circlets, claws, etc. Those things for a lot of people are the 'best' gear that they can get... It's just really, really, REALLY hard to find them. Much harder than the uniques.
I would like uniques to set the standard for what 'great loot' is, kind of like they do in Diablo 2 and then be able to find very rare crafted items/rare items/set items that go beyond those uniques... But those items should not be easy for everyone to find, they should be just as difficult as it is to find the amazing rares in Diablo 2.
woops :sweat:
That link you posted had a lot of info I didn't know, so thanks.
Do you have any info on how recipes will work? For instance, are the recipes themselves random, or will they be pre-set...like will we both find an "Axe of Death" recipe or will they work like rares?
YESSSSSSSSSSS!
Well what is new about the tweets is that he said that crafted sets were a distinct possibility.
And I think how they showed crafting working is that you'd have the recipe (I'll stick with Axe of Death), and on the crafting thing it'll say:
Axe of Death
X-Y Damage
X-Y Strength
etc
so that you have an Idea as to what the stats on the item are going to be, but then it uses the random prefixes and suffixes as well.
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