DiabloFans

This thread? Again?




1. You only have ~10 skills and ~ 4 passives unlocked, out of the potential ~120 skills (runestones) and ~ 20 passives available per class.
2. Stat points were broken. They created an issue where if you screwed up you couldn't use half the gear you wanted, or it made you not able to kill anything in the second half of the difficulties. But alas, stat points are still in the game, but they are on gear instead of given per level. This makes the game that much more custom because you choose which gear with which stats you want. A far better system.
3. Having to level a new character every time you wanted to try a different build was also broken. Don't mistake something that was in D2 for good, just because it was in D2. There's nothing that stops you from leveling another character if you so choose, but the majority of the player base don't WANT to level the same class twice or 6 times.

All in all the removal of stat points is a great move, and your toon feels the same because there are almost no options available in the beta that will be at release, including later level spells, runes, passives and gear.

@Bidmal;
Ask yourself, why do you care so much that i can swap skills when i want? Why do you want to put such a penalty on it? There's no good reason because it's a control issue; For some reason people with your mindset have a seriously hard problem thinking that someone else in a different game that you'll probably never meet is able to switch skills. In my opinion the system in place now is awesome, and it bugs me that you want to control how I play the game. Nothing is stopping YOU from keeping whatever build you want, and in all actuality the majority of players will end up sticking with one build. But If they wanted to change, there's the option.

Blizzard is not only a part of diablo, they made diablo what it is today. North wanted diablo to be a turn based claymation rpg, blizzard changed that. I for one would not be in love with diablo if it had stayed the same. Take a look at the 2005 D3 screenshots that North wanted. Terrible. they looked almost worse than D2, and I loved D2.

Not only is Blizzard moving Diablo in the right direction, it's because of direct action from Blizzard that we love diablo the way we do today, even D1 and D2.

1. Not sure if that's a typo, but wow never had a single player option.
2. nitty gritty dark graphics were because of an extremely limited color pallet, and even more limited computers that customers used.
3. light radius was almost completely taken out in D2, so not really sure where you're going with that. Half + of D2 you couldn't even notice if you had light radius on. Also, you haven't seen 1/100th of D3's dungeons, which they've stated change from well lit (the cathedral) to dark.
4. Stat points actually gave you less options, because you were committed to them. D3 you choose your stats by choosing gear, giving players more options.
5. Character diversity? D3 is using the 5 basic archetypes, and actually have made them far more interesting than D1 and D2 imo.

I'm.... I'm slightly disgusted you've never played D1 or D2.

I can forum troll AND flame at the same time ! =D

Quote from WishedHeHadBeta

Quote from Molster

which is why everyone was mad at it >_> =P

I also like how you trust in my blue post knowledge when it goes with you but when it dosnt you dont believe me about a blue post hehe =P

if someone says they agree and have proof of what you say, why question it? if someone says your incorrect and you DONT question it, well that just makes you gullable. lol

but ya this doesnt make sense how the system is perfect if it actually worked how its worded lol. putting a CD on a new skill u wanna use is pretty much backwards. isnt it?

so let the QQing continue!

the link in the blue post refers to jays write up but no where in the write up does he discuss the new skill swapping....? *confusion*

I'm in beta. I'll tell you exactly how it works.

Boom, level up, new skill available.
I choose an already existing skill I have to switch out, and pick a new skill.
that new skill has a 30 sec CD before I can use it, and I also can't swap with that same skill 'slot' again.
I also cannot swap a skill that is ON CD, such as being a wiz, and I use frost nova. I can't swap until it's CD is complete.
You can also swap up to your 6 skills if you'd like, they would just be on CD.

While the 30 seconds ends up feeling pretty long, this system is a GREAT compromise. I can actually use a new skill once I level while out fighting, rather than trying to find some alter. And without the ability to swap when that skill is on CD effectively stops abuse.

On a personal note, you're being kind of a douche.

It's almost like every time you try to kill a ridiculous thread.. it just keeps coming back.. stronger... whinier...

I heard mah name?

Quote from Kolos

Quote from Firehært

This is where you nerdraged by degrading those that want to play hardcore without the "features" you so want.

As you said, it is a damn game. Don't cry if you lose a character. Start a new one.

There is a reason for why they introduced a small window before you actually exit the game also why they gave stone of recall a casting time. They just didn't like how it was abused in D2. They want it to be played in another way.

So now "raging" simply means saying you don't like the same as someone else?
And how did this start anyway? Was I the one saying others shouldn't play the way they wanted? No, I was saying that I would like to play as I did in D2. Fans of a more hardcore HC mode have been saying all along that people who want to play D2 style HC are pussies for wanting that.
Now for saying that I'm fine with them playing however they want, if I can play the way I used to, I'm suddenly, not even raing, but nerdraging. How does that work out?

Also, complaining about losing a character because of a game bug, or unfair (compared to the previous diablo game) game mechanic, isn't crying. It's complaining about it and hoping it will get fixed so that random insta deaths doesn't happen in the same way anymore.

And it wasn't abused in D2. It was used the way it was meant to. Now they just want something else from D3, and a 10s exit time is too long for me in HC. At least it would have been in D2 with so many random insta deaths. Maybe D3 won't be like that, making a 10s casting time less of a worry. However it seems to be down to 4s now, much more to my liking.

What my real problem is situations like this: getting spotted by something like dark souls in worldstone keep from somewhere off screen where I can't see them.
What happens is this, I walk along without seeing any mobs. Suddenly though, I see a ton of lightning coming my way from somewhere off screen, and I die. That's a random insta death. Nothing you can do about it. I don't like that, and I don't want it in D3.
Even with the right gear for the situation, you can happen to get killed in an instant by something you didn't even see.
If D3 doesn't have these kinds of situations, then a 10s exit might be ok, let alone a 4s casting time.

First off you're asking for an instant out, because you took your toon too far and you're going to die. That's not HC, nor the instant save and exit.

Second, SoR is on like a 4 second cast.

Third, you can exit the game while moving and fighting, on a 10 second timer. If you're that big of a puss, just play with your exit game open the whole time.

Fourth, we have no idea how disconnects from our end are handled by D3, for all we know disconnects mean an instant leave-game server side. Just unplug your shit

Quote from Kolos

Lets all get this straight: playing Diablo 3 on HC, or any video game for that matter, does not make you "hardcore", bad ass, or a real man by any means, It's a damn game.
You could be playing the hardest game known to man and still only be a little asocial kid living in his parents basement.
Failing to acknowledging certain features of D2 missing in D3 only shows how eager you are to appear like internet toughguys.
In D2 HC, save & exit and instant tp was the name of the game. It's what you did to get out of a tight spot. Becaues guess what, it was either doing that or losing your char.
Choosing not to play the game as it's meant to be played (save & exit and tp being parts of the game) by not escaping a fight you know you'll loose is just dumb. You can either escape or loose your char. Loosing your char on purpose and then posting about it in an internet forum just makes you an idiot for wasting your own time without gaining anything from it - becaues lets face it, you aren't becoming more of a man by completing certain difficult videogame challenges.

I agree with OP. D3 is missing features that made HC what it was in D2. Saying that save & exit and tp in D3 HC makes it too easy, or basically makes it SC, is just dumb as it was what made HC in D2 what it was.
HC is having one life but also having easy exit strategies. That's how HC in D2 was. HC in D3 is a harder version of HC.
Saying that HC has always been like that is simply wrong, as we've always been using save & exit and tp to get out of trouble, to avoid loosing our chars.

It still surprises me to see how eager people are to prove how "hardcore" they are for beating a damn video game in a certain way.

Save and exit and instant TP weren't features jackass, they were faults. Just like there being no actual currency in D2 was a fault, so players had to make up their own (see SOJs). Arguing that this is being changed in D3 is = to burning a cross is ridiculous. Just because it's what we did before doesn't mean it's healthy for the game or the players.

The fact that you want an easy way out if you're in a tough spot just says to me you need to play softcore. You like the danger but 'oohhh *cring*' I don't want to actually lose!


Also, coming onto the forums for the first time using such a heavy stream of nerdrage words to flame people about playing diablo on HC, on a diablo website, is not the best idea.

Quote from Frozenkex

I didnt play D2 too much , i have question, can you change gear during combat? It would be lame if the "right way" to do it in the end game becomes switching to MF gear right before boss dies or whatever.

I was actually slightly concerned about this but there are a couple factors in place to make this not a huge issue : No mods for D3 (of course there can be keyboard macros, but damn how hard is that going to be to make), and bosses won't have the highest drop rates, but packs of champions which will have the potential to be even harder than bosses will, and if you wanted to do the switch right before they all died, it would take a lot more time to try and get each one close to death, as apposed to having your dps gear on and just killing faster.

Quote from Snaks42

Quote from Dezarius

Quote from Pokpokpok

The only things Diablo takes from MMOs is the very rich lore and some basics (leveling, items with stats, abilities). That's it.

There aren't enough classes to make an MMO, and all classes are dps. Diablo is fine the way it is.

Those traits are not entitled to MMO's alone, it's called RPG. So no Diablo doesn't take those things (leveling etc) from MMO's, as RPGs came before that and Diablo is an RPG. If anything they took it from RPGs, but well, as an RPG it would be odd if it didn't have RPG elements.

Anyways, just pointing that out. An MMO is usually an RPG just online, and well MM (massive multiplayer) it's intended to be massive, Diablo for one isn't in that sense. That's what I like, that's how it's a different kind of RPG game that despite that, still is online. For us who prefer to game online and not solo. (not saying that can't be fun.)

But I enjoy the online aspect, and having left MMO's for the first time I have no intention to go back to that again.. so Diablo is just the thing for me now, I can play online without it being this endless worlds with endless possibilities that never end. Diablo is still limited compared. I fancy the idea that this might work as more "Casual Play" for me, and I can keep my online gaming to that extent.

Oh I agree, i left wow and other mmorgs (played everything from aion, rift, WH, blah blah) because it dawned on me one day; This feels like a damn job. When I have to be online at a certain time, for a certain time frame, that's a job. When my success and failure is dependent upon other players, it's no fun. Not saying MMORGS don't have their place, I'm just glad I'm not a part of it anymore.

Ahh, diablo. I can hop on for 10 minutes or 10 hours, doesn't matter. No longer will I be standing around a city, waiting on others before I can play a game. I can get the best possible items by myself if I want, or join with friends.

Yep you can either go hardcore or casual with diablo, and your success will be dependent entirely on your own time =)

Btw, diablo fanboi right here <---

Oh I do agree. Nice to see someone that sees it from the same viewpoint, most just seem to say "if you don't go pro go home" so to say. I play for fun, and I have a daughter, a job and all that. At the end of the day, a game is a game, real life is real life. No matter how you look at it. If something virtual convinces you that it's more than that, then you should reflect on your life for a while, and find out what's best for your future. That's when you'll get your payback, whether it be good or bad.

Depends on what you did with your time, I sure won't look back and regret I spent mine playing games, that I have nothing to show for. That's just my opinion though, and I haven't been so sure of anything since I quit WoW back in August 2010. Had a better life since, got out of the addicting habit of gaming. Well, more the addicting habit of MMO's, but I play close to nothing in general anymore. So I feel it's okay for me to play Diablo casually, I'll just have to keep it that way..

And I want to address some of the things you point out; You said it feels like a damn job, which is exactly how I felt playing, and the part about being too tied down and how you relate to other players. More work than fun really. Nothing wrong with team work and success, but my idea of fun isn't how I can't just enjoy my game laid back, having to watch my every step so I don't mess up for others and it's a big deal if one does. Of course, these people are serious and spend a lot of their time to achieve this, virtual grandeur, so each has to play his part. Maybe there was a time like that for me as well, but I'm just too old and it doesn't suit me.

If I do play games now it is to lay back and have some fun, without having responsibilities even when I'm playing the game.. I have my share of those in real life already haha. A game shouldn't be work per say, progress yes, but it shouldn't feel more like actual work than a game. Then you're playing it more like a sport, if that's what you want sure.

Like you said there is a place for MMO's, but thanks but no thanks. And as you said, it's up to you what amount of time you choose to invest in the game, spend time as you have it. With MMO's it's a little more complicated than so, I for one know I can't play one casually. These games urge you to spend more time, the more you spend the more you'll achieve. If you don't want that, then why play an MMO. Diablo should stay Diablo, there are oh so many options for those of you who want MMO's. This is what sets Diablo apart if you ask me.

Oh and yes I've played a few myself. Started with Anarchy Online, guild wars, wow, age of conan, aion, I'm sure there was a few more.. Anyways here's to Diablo becoming that jolly good funtime to be had, with no strings attached. Haha.

OMG! I read the first post and stopped. I've built quite a few (I believe very viable) builds using Temporal Flux as a main consideration and you think it is completely useless?

Oh and having Evocation for only 1 spell that has a cooldown, plus having 3 different ray spells in one build? (I consider Arcane Torrent a Ray in theory). WOW. You have to stand in place a lot to cast don't you. Hope you don't run into several enhanced speed + cold based elites. Cos you don't even have a teleport to get out of trouble, and NO AP REGEN!!!

Short sighted build that only relies on brute force power with no imagination IMO and no AP regen abilities.

Hey everyone,

My friends and I took on a little challenge and decided to create the Diablo 3 logo in Minecraft. For the record, yes all items were spawned, but that was the extent of the *hacking*. It was all built with absurd amounts scaffolding and plenty of grief breaks. Enjoy the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NJSVpdQ3nU

Blizzard has said SEVERAL times now they're designing around the assumption that people will NOT be hotswapping. And they do NOT expect a lot of people to do it regularly. Okay? Can we get that out of the way now? Thank you. Quit assuming the game will be balanced around you swapping skills because it WON'T. Blizzard wants the game to be balanced assuming people DON'T do that.

Now that that is out of way, let's get on to the real points.

The runes are what determine how many charged bolts to use your skill, a level 7 rune does more than a leve l rune. So yes, you will see more scaling of effects beyond just damage through rune levels. And rune types.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard isn't planning to put macros in place to change your abilities. You have to stop killing, open your menu, find the skill, drag it to where you want it. Long process - doesn't seem very fun to me. So I won't.


What's better is MEANINGFUL customization. Skill points have NEVER proven themselves to be that. Remember, I am a game reviewer(admittedly fairly recently starting out as one), I play a ton of games. I've never seen a skill customization system that encouraged me to do anything other than max as many skills as I could to be as powerful as possible. Skills get increasingly more powerful the more points you put in them, not literally, but scalingly. So 1 point may do 1-2 damage, 5 will do 20-22, and 10 will do 100-102. There's no reason to only put 5 in, because I'll be really really weak. So you max out as many skills as the skill point system allows you to, then use whatever few skill points you have left to get utility abilities or in rare cases synergistic abilities. This is a fact. It was this way in D2, it was this way in Dungeon Siege 3, it was this way in dozens of other games which had skill trees. It is ALWAYS this way.

Stat points I will give you in some games HAVE been meaningful and well done. But usually they result in one person finding the optimum and 99.999% of people copying him. In d2 the optimum was as many vitality points as you could after getting youjr strength for items, for one example.

Meaningful customization will be in the choices you make, and I truly expect this game to end up with most people doing what I'll be doing: Designing their character to be a specific character. Ie. I'm going to have Venra the melee Wizardress. She will be that, and unless BLizzard makes it completely 100% useless, that is what she will be. It doesn't matter if I fight enemies that isn't ideal as, she will do what she needs to. Most gamers I've talked to play like that in games like this.

Sure there will be 'professional farmers' who do otherwise, but that's fine too - it's their choice. And that's the beauty of this system, it allows you the choice to play how you most want to. IF you want to build a character and make it a real character there is NOTHING stopping you from doing so. If you want to min max and swap abilities on the fly, there's also nothing stopping you from doing that. And that is truly a beautiful thing in a game - true choice.

Can't help but constantly feel that Anonymous is some sad bunch of young people that have no clue what they're doing, or what they're playing with. But maybe not.

This isn't my fight, I don't even know about Wallstreet. I'm interested to see what will actually happen, if anything will, and I'd be glad if it did make a difference in the grand scheme of things.

But I hope nobody here actually believes they can end any and all abuse without violence. No matter your claims of non violence, no change will come without pain.

why are you yelling at me!?!?

The only issue with that is I think the idea of inferno is for you to want to play the whole level, not just run to the bosses, which is what your idea would promote.

They want you to enjoy fighting act 1 against fallen and hulks and advancing up to Andariel as much as doing continuous meph runs.

I am thinking if they do incentives, it will be based on clearing all of the acts type of setup.