Damn, here I thought that was Diablo with the Amazon shooting really really fast...
Guess the Increased Attack Speed small charms and jewels and whatnot wouldn't work on guns...
Edit: Miss read what you said. Apparently Bows CAN shoot really fast and guns can't, even though historically they would of shot at about the same speed. Guess IAS only works on bows, crossbows, axes, swords, clubs, polearms, *takes a breath* spears, javelins, staves, orbs, maces, scepters, etc, but not guns. Hmm...
Prepare, I quoted a crapload of people. If you want, go get a soda or a sandwich now.
Ok, got your refreshments? Cool. *Deep breath.* Lets begin.
Quote from "intrinsik4" »
I don't get it. It's not like you're gonna end up with uzi's and ak47's. Would it really kill diablo to have a slight foray into pre-colonial firearms?
We already have bows and crossbows... so...
1. on the one hand, how much does it change
2. on the other hand, if it doesnt change much why put it in
Agreed, uzi's and AK's don't belong. Hand cannons that would fit in the time era would belong. In fact, it amazes me with the technology they had in D2 (in game people's technology) that there were no primitive firearms.
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
It's not in keeping with the Diablo universe.
Blizzard(R) said that the Diablo universe is an ever changing universe, thus this statement is null and void.
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
The genre is hack and slash, not hack and shoot. Look at Too Human. They tried this, and before it's even released it's being knocked for its terrible gameplay mechanics and "trying to do too much at once" - i.e. guns.
I concur. And lets remove axes and clubs and all the one handed weapons for short swords and remove long swords and polearms and all the two handed weapons for heavy two handed axes. That way you only have short one handed swords and heavy two handed axes. Makes things alot easier. *Makes petition.*
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
Another example? Hellgate: London. Man, that was a great game that really kept Flagship Studios afloat, huh? Oh wait.
Look [thread link="One"]here[/thread link].
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
Besides, what kind of magic would guns be imbued with? Multi-shot? Faster firing rate? Shock, explode, freeze, or poison on contact? Hey those sound great, and you know why? Arrows already have those abilities. No need to crowd the game with another item that does the exact same thing.
Well, I would expect the same things as the bows.
Wait, bows are already there... Well, there's Crossbows and javalins... But let's just hide the crossbows and javelins, right?
*Makes petition to remove crossbows and javelins for "simplicity's sake".*
Quote from "Daemaro" »
I think the original post was talking about hand cannons. Besides they would have the bonus of doing the same things as arrows/bolts AND pissing a lot of people off at once!
Pissing people off is pretty good. Hehehe....
Quote from "intrinsik4" »
Well apparently there are guns in WoW... and WoW is very successful. Perhaps it's the application of the thing, rather than just the fact that it's there or not.
Hey, you take Diablo out of Warcraft and I am SURE that Warcraft fans will take there warcraft out of your Diablo. (Granted, once all the Diablo is out of Warcraft, there probably won't be any warcraft in Diablo in the first place, considering WoW is basically Diablo MMO with Warcraft characters...)
Quote from "intrinsik4" »
I say, if guns can be worked into the game in a compelling way, why not? Because it wasn't in the first two? They have explosives and iron works. Are guns in the diablo world so far fetched?
Because people don't like change. They want Diablo 2, just with prettier graphics. That's all. That's all they want. They don't even want a story, they want Diablo 2 with current generation graphics.
Quote from "intrinsik4" »
It's all a bit unfair I think. I don't feel like "OH BOY GUNS" at all really. I'm just saying it wouldn't kill me if there were guns. My interest is in the outcry against guns. I don't think it's really warranted... atleast in cases like "go play WoW" and whatnot.
Well, go [thread link="Two"]here[/thread link] for my view on the WoW/Diablo crying. (Don't worry, same page. Just an anchor. ;D )
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
I don't think it would KILL anyone to have guns in Diablo, you just have to understand people's aversion to them in the game in the first place.
Alot of people hate stuff for stupid reasons. *Refers to WoW haters that never played WoW, or just played the 10 day trial.*
Quote from "Dead_Metal" »
And I'm sure many people here will attest to the idea that just because it's good in WoW does not mean it needs to be in Diablo. (That argument starts enough headaches as it is)
And I'm sure nobody here can understand that WoW got almost all of it's RPG elements from Diablo. But saying that out loud is heresy...
Quote from "shelledfade" »
Go play WoW. Or CoD4, Or unreal tournament 3 if you want guns. kthxbye.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I want to kill you. Seriously, nothing personal, I just want to kill you, then bathe in your blood. kthxbye
Quote from "Daemaro" »
When I think HacknSlash I think "OH BOY MELEE WEAPONS!". Lot's of people are excited about different things, but most people don't think "OH BOY GUNS!". There are already games based heavily on guns, though they may not be hacknslash.
Well, the thing is, it's not based heavily on guns. Guns would be just like bows?
"THEN WHY HAVE GUNS!?!?"
Why have guns if bows do the same thing? Why have axes if swords can melee? Why have eagle orbs if staves can be a magic user's weapon? Why use throwing daggers when throwing axes can be a thrower's weapon? Why? Seriously, why not only one of each type? Only short swords for 1h melee'ers, heavy axes for 2h melee'ers, throwing knives for throwers, crossbows for ranged, and staves for magic users. All the other weapons should be trashed, right? Right? Right?
Quote from "Daemaro" »
Warcraft had the runed blade Frostmourne. etc etc.
Which was based off of the Diablo runes. Today's game runes are largely based off of Diablo 2's runes. Again, Diablo could lead the way, except a few small minded people think ak47's instead of historically accurate weapons.
Quote from "Veritech017" »
You can have your guns, but they will be realistic.
You only get 1 shot every five minutes, that's your reload time. Rifling doesn't exist yet, so they are highly inaccurate and only 1 in 5 shots ever hits.
Agreed. And lets put the same limitations on bows and crossbows and javalins and swords and axes. Bows should only fire one shot every 3 minutes, and swords shouldn't be flying in a blurr, but rather one hit every 15 to 20 secons. Right? Right?
Oh, and Whirlwind isn't realistic. Nobody spins that fast through hordes of enemies and survives, lets take that out of the game.
Quote from "Kalyptein" »
Guns are pointless since there are already Bows / Crossbows about which achieve exactly the same thing gameplaywise with imbued/magical shots etc.
Agreed. Again, another anchor link [thread link="Five"]here[/thread link]. Please read.
Quote from "Inpaceriposarsi" »
I wouldn't want a firearm as a weapon... because it's realistic. Today guns are the weapon of choice. But I play Diablo to escape and embark in a world where demons die mercilessly by ways of sorcery and kickass ancient weaponry.
Unless they add "gun resistance", handcannon whatever you want to call it is going to tear through leather armor.
What about "bow resistance", "sword resistance", "axe resistance", etc? An axe of that time would do a hell of alot more damage then any gun of that time.
I can see it now, you see the fire, lightning, and ice reistance, then you see bow resistance, gun resistance, axe resistance, etc.
Shoot, lets do away with defense and just have resistances on our armour!!!*Rolls eyes.*
I know I don't add alot, but it really saddens me when people automatically put things like what we are talking about and confuse them with AK's and M16's. Nobody here want's Hellgate: London, we want Diablo 3.
Because adding "guns" into D3 would imediately make is a first / third person shooter with action RPG elements instead of an isometric action rpg...yeah...right...
Wait! Crossbows would make it a first/third person shooter too!
Wait a second...
Can we get any posts that mentions WoW or Hellgate: London deleted?
Guns are medieval. The 100 years war was the first european war to see Cannons being used on a large scale. That war started less than 100 years after the time in which Sanctuary takes place in.
Key word is on a large scale. They were used before that as well, and you would expect any hand cannons
Quote from "Equinox" »
Please note that there is a difference between guns and cannons. Guns that could actually hit something are relatively recent. Cannons are artillery.
Artillery cannons are artillery. Hand cannons are not.
This is a hand cannon:
This is an artillery cannon:
As you can tell, there is a difference between hand cannons and artillery cannons.
Quote from name="Scorpion Zero" »
I believe that with such advanced in magic in the Diablo universe, it sort of rules out advanced technology, eg: guns. The same way that in our real world we have advanced technology, but magic not so much (debatable). For further reference watch all of Full Metal Alchemist.
I'm not entirely opposed to the notion of guns in D3, though I don't know if Blizzard would be able to pull it off well and still keep the balance. It's not like they'd throw in a AK-47 or Barret .50 cal, if anything the most advanced gun would be something like a blunderbuss.
If they can balance bows and swords with magic then they can put small arms weaponry in as well. Shoot, all they have to do is change the model of a bow and it would be just like a handcannon being implimented.
Quote from "Daemaro" »
And necros/druids/amazons?
Druidry is a religion... Necromancers follow Rathma... Amazons...are foggy in my mind...
(Granted Druidry in Diablo 2 is nothing like real life Druidry...)
You people need to read. It's not a gun, but a "hand cannon." Of course we wouldn't bring out AK's and take minions hostage! Just a basic idea of a cannon shrunk down.
Alpha... Right after your post...
Quote from "santaclaws490" »
hmm guns or any sort of modern ranged weapon would deteriorate the feel to diablo. I think one of the most exciting things about playing diablo is that you almost feel like you are there (i guess its an escape from modern reality). Guns would just destroy that feeling and ruin the fantasy. Not that its a terrible idea, but it would ruin diablo for me.
Alpha... Seriously, they don't understand that when you say "gun" you are not referring to modern assault rifles... At this point we should ignore anyone who talks about modern assault rifles...
It seems too modern though. Obviously there is no correlation between Sanctuary's timeline and ours, but the game gives off a medieval vibe and people don't typically relate guns with that place in time.
Except people who know there history... As for the typical person your speaking of, it's obviously Americans, (And I take no joy in saying this, as I love my country, but...) but Americans are, for all intensive purposes, idiots, and half the time don't know how to spell the name of the teacher there banging...
Quote from "owningypsie" »
Not to mention that Warcraft has that covered. But I argue for too many WoW 'improvements' to play that card
World of Warcraft has swords and bows, so Diablo 3 should get rid of swords and bows! Sign my petition to get rid of swords and bows in Diablo 3!
There were no rifles back then. Hand cannons would simply have balls instead of arrows/bolts. You could imbue the hand cannon with a topaz and boom you have something that fires electric, heavy, round projectiles. In terms of practicality, not much different from a sorceress.
I'd compare it more to a amazon's bow with said topaz. Firing either heavy hard bolts or heavy round balls, still the same flying matter of doom. And with the time frame, very plausible.
The muskets don't require hammers or triggers? Hmm.
Early match lock muskets didnt need hammers, as there was nothing to hit. Percussion caps were brought into play after matchlock, wheellock, and even flint lock muskets, ie about 1830. Yes, very close to modern day, isn't it?
Triggers on the other hand are not as modern, but still were not required for the first some generations of small arms fire. (Small arms refering to any guns that can be carried by one person.)
Quote from "Daemaro" »
Anyway what Larzuk was describing sounded more like cannons to me, everyone thought he was crazy for it. I'm not sure that within 20 years time they could perfect cannons and then reduce them to guns. In order for a gun to work you need the exact right amount of powder or other explosive or else it won't do anything or it will blow the gun apart, happened with older cannons and guns quite a bit.
Sure they COULD if someone had been working on it night and day and managed to avoid injury I just don't think it's logical as of 20 years later. Maybe in D4 if there is one.
Oh, I don't really expect to see hand cannons, but I do expect to see siege cannons. Siege cannons are rather simple to make, as it is just a tube with one end closed off, explosive powder rammed in, and a big metal ball shoved in after that.
Because when people say guns, I'm sure that's not what 80% of people have in mind.
I didn't imagine a uzi or something but that's not really even a gun. You light it and launch a projectile right? I believe for something to be a gun it needs a trigger doesn't it?
Match-lock muskets didn't use triggers, and they are fairly modern, correct? They were fired by placing the burning rope in the explosive pan of the musket, which was only later inovated so that it was done by a trigger.
So no, triggers are not required for a gun. In fact they are doing away with triggers in some of today's guns, but that is another topic for another thread...
Guns are a lot easier to use than bows. I speak from experience. I've hunted with both bows and guns in real life.
As for melee weapons, you have to know when to parry when to dodge, when to strike.
A gun you just aim and shoot.
I am going to go on a limb and say you never fired a gun like this:
Just a hunch...
(By the way, it's a bit more difficult to use that kind of gun then your hunting rifle...)
Quote from "nikkao" »
mm im thinking if what if they made it like a skil (only)l and no one else can have it?
i mean not to be a regular weapon what im traying to say is that like the class is going to use it when you activate the skill you can use these kind a weapon gained whit it the skill but cannot get the weapon or sell/buy it.
Or better yet, do as they did in D2 and make the better guns like the Grand Matriarch bows as in only one class can fire it and the basic guns that don't fire that well like the short bow you find all over A1 normal...
ok this idea is starting to like me ...but only is balanced to keep the game in the same direction and only usable by some kind of hightech-bow specialist (talking in the game terms) or be a sort of skill atack from a bow/assasin/amazon class i could agree whit that.^_^
Well I mean anyone in Diablo 2 could use any weapon if they had enough dex and strength, but only the Amazon and enchantress Sorceress shined with it. It would be a similar notion in Diablo 3 with Guns.
Quote from "Daemaro" »
I hate the idea of guns. Nearly anyone can fire a gun, bows and melee weapons take a lot more skill.
Nearly anyone can pull back and release a bow or swing a sword, but learning to use a gun takes a lot more skill.
Nope, still sounds wrong... Probably because bows, guns, and swords/axes would all take a great deal of training. (Though axes would arguably be the easiest to learn...)
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Damn, here I thought that was Diablo with the Amazon shooting really really fast...
Guess the Increased Attack Speed small charms and jewels and whatnot wouldn't work on guns...
Edit: Miss read what you said. Apparently Bows CAN shoot really fast and guns can't, even though historically they would of shot at about the same speed. Guess IAS only works on bows, crossbows, axes, swords, clubs, polearms, *takes a breath* spears, javelins, staves, orbs, maces, scepters, etc, but not guns. Hmm...
Ok, got your refreshments? Cool. *Deep breath.* Lets begin.
Agreed, uzi's and AK's don't belong. Hand cannons that would fit in the time era would belong. In fact, it amazes me with the technology they had in D2 (in game people's technology) that there were no primitive firearms.
Blizzard(R) said that the Diablo universe is an ever changing universe, thus this statement is null and void.
I concur. And lets remove axes and clubs and all the one handed weapons for short swords and remove long swords and polearms and all the two handed weapons for heavy two handed axes. That way you only have short one handed swords and heavy two handed axes. Makes things alot easier. *Makes petition.*
Look [thread link="One"]here[/thread link].
Well, I would expect the same things as the bows.
Wait, bows are already there... Well, there's Crossbows and javalins... But let's just hide the crossbows and javelins, right?
*Makes petition to remove crossbows and javelins for "simplicity's sake".*
Pissing people off is pretty good. Hehehe....
Hey, you take Diablo out of Warcraft and I am SURE that Warcraft fans will take there warcraft out of your Diablo. (Granted, once all the Diablo is out of Warcraft, there probably won't be any warcraft in Diablo in the first place, considering WoW is basically Diablo MMO with Warcraft characters...)
Because people don't like change. They want Diablo 2, just with prettier graphics. That's all. That's all they want. They don't even want a story, they want Diablo 2 with current generation graphics.
Well, go [thread link="Two"]here[/thread link] for my view on the WoW/Diablo crying. (Don't worry, same page. Just an anchor. ;D )
Alot of people hate stuff for stupid reasons. *Refers to WoW haters that never played WoW, or just played the 10 day trial.*
And I'm sure nobody here can understand that WoW got almost all of it's RPG elements from Diablo. But saying that out loud is heresy...
Don't take this the wrong way, but I want to kill you. Seriously, nothing personal, I just want to kill you, then bathe in your blood. kthxbye
Well, the thing is, it's not based heavily on guns. Guns would be just like bows?
"THEN WHY HAVE GUNS!?!?"
Why have guns if bows do the same thing? Why have axes if swords can melee? Why have eagle orbs if staves can be a magic user's weapon? Why use throwing daggers when throwing axes can be a thrower's weapon? Why? Seriously, why not only one of each type? Only short swords for 1h melee'ers, heavy axes for 2h melee'ers, throwing knives for throwers, crossbows for ranged, and staves for magic users. All the other weapons should be trashed, right? Right? Right?
Which was based off of the Diablo runes. Today's game runes are largely based off of Diablo 2's runes. Again, Diablo could lead the way, except a few small minded people think ak47's instead of historically accurate weapons.
Agreed. And lets put the same limitations on bows and crossbows and javalins and swords and axes. Bows should only fire one shot every 3 minutes, and swords shouldn't be flying in a blurr, but rather one hit every 15 to 20 secons. Right? Right?
Oh, and Whirlwind isn't realistic. Nobody spins that fast through hordes of enemies and survives, lets take that out of the game.
Agreed. Again, another anchor link [thread link="Five"]here[/thread link]. Please read.
What?... Seriously, wtf?...
What about "bow resistance", "sword resistance", "axe resistance", etc? An axe of that time would do a hell of alot more damage then any gun of that time.
I can see it now, you see the fire, lightning, and ice reistance, then you see bow resistance, gun resistance, axe resistance, etc.
Shoot, lets do away with defense and just have resistances on our armour!!!*Rolls eyes.*
Meh, me thinks we need more mods...
Wait! Crossbows would make it a first/third person shooter too!
Wait a second...
Can we get any posts that mentions WoW or Hellgate: London deleted?
Key word is on a large scale. They were used before that as well, and you would expect any hand cannons
Artillery cannons are artillery. Hand cannons are not.
This is a hand cannon:
This is an artillery cannon:
As you can tell, there is a difference between hand cannons and artillery cannons.
If they can balance bows and swords with magic then they can put small arms weaponry in as well. Shoot, all they have to do is change the model of a bow and it would be just like a handcannon being implimented.
Druidry is a religion... Necromancers follow Rathma... Amazons...are foggy in my mind...
(Granted Druidry in Diablo 2 is nothing like real life Druidry...)
Alpha... Right after your post...
Alpha... Seriously, they don't understand that when you say "gun" you are not referring to modern assault rifles... At this point we should ignore anyone who talks about modern assault rifles...
Except people who know there history... As for the typical person your speaking of, it's obviously Americans, (And I take no joy in saying this, as I love my country, but...) but Americans are, for all intensive purposes, idiots, and half the time don't know how to spell the name of the teacher there banging...
World of Warcraft has swords and bows, so Diablo 3 should get rid of swords and bows! Sign my petition to get rid of swords and bows in Diablo 3!
I'd compare it more to a amazon's bow with said topaz. Firing either heavy hard bolts or heavy round balls, still the same flying matter of doom. And with the time frame, very plausible.
Early match lock muskets didnt need hammers, as there was nothing to hit. Percussion caps were brought into play after matchlock, wheellock, and even flint lock muskets, ie about 1830. Yes, very close to modern day, isn't it?
Triggers on the other hand are not as modern, but still were not required for the first some generations of small arms fire. (Small arms refering to any guns that can be carried by one person.)
Oh, I don't really expect to see hand cannons, but I do expect to see siege cannons. Siege cannons are rather simple to make, as it is just a tube with one end closed off, explosive powder rammed in, and a big metal ball shoved in after that.
Match-lock muskets didn't use triggers, and they are fairly modern, correct? They were fired by placing the burning rope in the explosive pan of the musket, which was only later inovated so that it was done by a trigger.
So no, triggers are not required for a gun. In fact they are doing away with triggers in some of today's guns, but that is another topic for another thread...
And yet you dismiss the idea of having such a weapon.
Why dissmiss ideas of weapons when you have not even seen said weapons?
I am going to go on a limb and say you never fired a gun like this:
Just a hunch...
(By the way, it's a bit more difficult to use that kind of gun then your hunting rifle...)
Or better yet, do as they did in D2 and make the better guns like the Grand Matriarch bows as in only one class can fire it and the basic guns that don't fire that well like the short bow you find all over A1 normal...
Well I mean anyone in Diablo 2 could use any weapon if they had enough dex and strength, but only the Amazon and enchantress Sorceress shined with it. It would be a similar notion in Diablo 3 with Guns.
Nearly anyone can pull back and release a bow or swing a sword, but learning to use a gun takes a lot more skill.
Nope, still sounds wrong... Probably because bows, guns, and swords/axes would all take a great deal of training. (Though axes would arguably be the easiest to learn...)