Check Germany after WW2 directly and check Germany after 20 years from WW2, can you realize the difference that can happen in 20 years, seriously !!!?
yeah seriously, cause there were masses of people. here:
"New Tristram has been in existence for several years, though the exact date of its founding is unclear. Originally simply a collection of merchants looking to profit on adventurers and travelers drawn by legends of riches within the old cathedral, it slowly set down roots and became an established town. As soon as the cathedral was looted bare, however, the adventurers and travelers stopped coming, and New Tristram found itself in decline. The town is now comprised mostly of depressing shacks; the inn is the only building that looks even the least bit habitable."
I don't see how that lends to a clean, green cathedral. that was my point.
If I may, as somebody who goes back to the first diablo demo and has beta tested Diablo 2 and its expansion, give an opinion that actually sees both in what everybody is saying. For one, we have to remember that even though it is BLIZZARD that is making it, the original crew who MADE the diablo franchise what it is no longer works for them. IMHO they are probably more influenced by WoW, as #3 is being accused of looking, than the original Diablo franchise. I can tell by the color schemes, I do like them btw, and the way the 3d rendering of the Barbarian and it's armor KIND OF reminds me of Warcraft 3 or WoW. I do see some of the same style in it whether we like it or not. To me, as long as the coloring fits the enviroment, I have no problem with it. For example: dark, gothic colors in dungeons while maybe more vibrant ones in the forest.I don't think they are taking away that much from what Diablo was by making a few changes. I like the idea of storage bags. What I would like to see is a FULL bag be able to be moved from the players inventory to their stash. Not only that and like others have suggested, make it accessable to your other characters on the same account. Also a skill bar idea instead of only having 2 skills maybe available at a time could be considered simply a evolvment of the game. Not copying WoW or GW for that matter.One thing I would LIKE to see, and I didn't see if anybody had suggested it, but why not make an integrated character backup system instead of having to depend on 3rd party systems to do this? We get viruses. Machines cash. So why not have a backup system for hard worked-on characters? That's all I can think of at this time and stop hating each other. Blizzard ignores hateful opinions and listens to constructive ones.
All this nonsense reminds me of people's reaction when the maker of Zelda decided to change his art style completely with Zelda Wind Waker, and guess what, whiners whined like there was no tomorrow but he released the game and it was a big hit and one of the most enjoyable Zelda games. IT WAS HIS GAME AND HIS VISION THAT HE WANTED TO MAKE, NOT THE FANS EMO NOSTALGIC VISION.
That's why game companies should never listen to people because 80% of them are immature and emo.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"This place is thick with the stench of ghouls"
Said the Barbarian before proceeding to slaughter everyone
I think blizzard already decided what they wanted, more 'wow' looks. Wow sold alot of copies, they obviously want to re-produce that.
I think the explanation blizzard gave is a complete cop-out. *spit
Yes thats what i think as well, its not the colors i cant live with, but the block oversized models that are taken straight out of WoW, the characters armor is horrible and all the enviorment modeling is not proportioned, plus the characters are minuscule compared to the size of diablo 2 proportions, and since art is the first step of any game since it tyes in with collision physics its not gonna change unless we do something.
To people who keep saying that Blizzard North doesn't work on DIII anymore...
Yes, that's true. So what are you saying? Blizzard as it is cannot make a good DIII because old developers are gone? OK. GTFO of the website then!
I mean, if you only believe in Blizzard North, which is gone, what are you doing here? True DIII is impossible, according to you. But at least allow other people to be happy about it.
LOTOR is known for beautiful landscapes. Tolkein painted a picture of the world he created, and it was beautiful. Very little of that world is actually dark.
What has been painted for us in Diablo has been a dark world filled with dark things. What we have seen in Diablo 3 is not dark, including a dungeon that is SUPPOSED TO BE DARK... according to Deckard Cain himself.
What we saw was not dark. Not at all. The entire Dungeon was glowing with a blueish-green glow.
Right, this is great. The thing he seems to be forgetting is that Diablo 2 took place outside more than it did inside. 4/5ths of the action was outside. Diablo 2 was STILL dark, not in actual darkness but in mood and feeling.
Diablo 3 does not depict that mood and feeling. This troubles me when they have been quoted as having said "We want dark to be a mood and not a color." Act 1 in Diablo 2 depicted dark as a mood without actually being dark.
Color? K. We get it. You guys like color. I like color. I prefer to play games like Super Mario Galaxy over Gears of War. I don't, however, like to play games that are colorful just to be colorful or dark just to be dark. The REASON that Diablo 1 and 2 were dark games (in mood) were because it fit. It genuinely fit.
The mood set for us in Diablo 3 is not dark. Not at all. If this is the very first thing we see when we enter the game, the mood will not be dark.
Diablo 1. First thing we see? A dead tree. We walk a bit and we see a dying man in a pool of blood.
Diablo 2. First thing we see? Dead grass, a rogue encampment. We walk out, first place we find? Den of Evil.
Diablo 3. First thing we see? A polished and new cathedral (doesn't make sense, doesn't match the concept art, doesn't fit the lore, doesn't match what Deckard Cain said about the place) that is glowing with a blueish-green glow. It isn't dark like Deckard Cain mentioned.
No arguments here. The textures are fine. Maybe a little more detail, but stuff like that comes with development time. Everyone understands this.
What we don't understand are:
Color and theme choices
Glowing dungeons
I'm SO glad they are focusing on the gameplay first. Although I'm firm in my belief that the game needs to be darker in mood from the VERY beginning, I'd much rather have a game that plays well than more mood.
One thing I don't think Blizzard understands is that they already have a series that is bright and vibrant. They have another series that is an inbetween (starcraft) and they have this series that is incredibly dark and morbid. To many of us, it appears as if they have lost sight of this and it's a shame.
Exactly. They're making a big mistake from the way it looks as of now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
92% of teens moved on to rap music.
If you're part of the 8% that rock out everyday, put this sentence in your sig.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
To people who keep saying that Blizzard North doesn't work on DIII anymore...
Yes, that's true. So what are you saying? Blizzard as it is cannot make a good DIII because old developers are gone? OK. GTFO of the website then!
I mean, if you only believe in Blizzard North, which is gone, what are you doing here? True DIII is impossible, according to you. But at least allow other people to be happy about it.
We are suggesting that from past experience with the new Blizzard (WoW, SC2, and now D3), they can not get expectations right at first. They always start cartoony and wait for the community to beat them to hell before the change it. By always, I mean for the last two times.
We don't want a complete rehaul. We don't want them to change much of anything besides a color choice. Bring back those oranges and get rid of the blue-green glow in the dungeon. That is all.
For reference:
It's still very colorful, just not nearly as cartoony in appearance. Note: That's more than just filters. I actually went in and touched it up a tad as well (darkened shadows a bit to make it seem a bit more moody without getting rid of color, located the color range for the orange and toned it down a good bit, used lots of layers on this). It took me, about, 5 minutes to do this picture. That's a total of 5 minutes, not 5 minutes of work on this.
Also, since most of the world appears to be an odd mix of 2D and 3D, I don't think it would be that hard to mess with the 2D like I did and simply adjust the 3D to react to lighting in a realistic manner... something ALL Diablo fans should be expecting.
The above is what most people would be happy with. Those that wouldn't be happy with this are the ones who don't realize that it's the oranges and bright greens that make it look cartoony.
We are suggesting that from past experience with the new Blizzard (WoW, SC2, and now D3), they can not get expectations right at first. They always start cartoony and wait for the community to beat them to hell before the change it. By always, I mean for the last two times.
We don't want a complete rehaul. We don't want them to change much of anything besides a color choice. Bring back those oranges and get rid of the blue-green glow in the dungeon. That is all.
For reference:
It's still very colorful, just not nearly as cartoony in appearance. Note: That's more than just filters. I actually went in and touched it up a tad as well (darkened shadows a bit to make it seem a bit more moody without getting rid of color, located the color range for the orange and toned it down a good bit, used lots of layers on this). It took me, about, 5 minutes to do this picture. That's a total of 5 minutes, not 5 minutes of work on this.
Also, since most of the world appears to be an odd mix of 2D and 3D, I don't think it would be that hard to mess with the 2D like I did and simply adjust the 3D to react to lighting in a realistic manner... something ALL Diablo fans should be expecting.
The above is what most people would be happy with. Those that wouldn't be happy with this are the ones who don't realize that it's the oranges and bright greens that make it look cartoony.
Also:
Get rid of the shoulder pads.
I agree. I love the colors. I just think where they are using the colors needs to be changed. Just because you have a theory of green and blue in the right scheme making it a scary dungeon dosnt make it a scary dungeon. A bit more texturing and what not would be nicee to. Mostly I just want to see more of the violence and blood in D1 and D2-more random corpses and what not.
We are suggesting that from past experience with the new Blizzard (WoW, SC2, and now D3), they can not get expectations right at first. They always start cartoony and wait for the community to beat them to hell before the change it. By always, I mean for the last two times.
We don't want a complete rehaul. We don't want them to change much of anything besides a color choice. Bring back those oranges and get rid of the blue-green glow in the dungeon. That is all.
For reference: [...]
It's still very colorful, just not nearly as cartoony in appearance. Note: That's more than just filters. I actually went in and touched it up a tad as well (darkened shadows a bit to make it seem a bit more moody without getting rid of color, located the color range for the orange and toned it down a good bit, used lots of layers on this). It took me, about, 5 minutes to do this picture. That's a total of 5 minutes, not 5 minutes of work on this.
Also, since most of the world appears to be an odd mix of 2D and 3D, I don't think it would be that hard to mess with the 2D like I did and simply adjust the 3D to react to lighting in a realistic manner... something ALL Diablo fans should be expecting.
The above is what most people would be happy with. Those that wouldn't be happy with this are the ones who don't realize that it's the oranges and bright greens that make it look cartoony.
Also:
Get rid of the shoulder pads.
Good analysis. I see their reasoning for wanting to make the game more colorful, but they can do so without making it look so damn cartoony. And they need to get rid of the shoulder pads ASAP.
First things first, Art and game design should never turn into some sort of pseudo democracy, this is not presidential elections, the only one who has the right to decide what Diablo 3 looks like is Blizzard, not mindless nostalgia fueled petitions or crazed hard-core fans.
That's the main reason companies other than Blizzard ignore all this nonsense and make their games in secret to avoid such nonsense, and soon Blizzard too will do the same because of the attitude of mindless immature fans.
I have said countless time that Blizzard justified their changes in the game looks during their Art Panels in WWI, and it makes more sense than the mindless nostalgia fest going on here, anyone with even the slightest artistic sense could see how much hard work has been done on Diablo 3, so it is immature, implotie and rude to just ask them to change it all just because your nostlagia is hurting, if you don't like Diablo 3 as it is just don't buy it or play it, go play the countless gritty clones out there, or make your own company.
Reasons for the changes:-
*it has been already 20 years since Diablo 2, more than enough to change the whole look of the world.
* Stylish, giving Diablo 3 its own character and personality, allowing it to stand out from the crowd of brown and grey games, or 'realistic' (e.g. boring) looking games.
* Not monotonous. The use of inviting colours, contours, tones, vibrance, and animations are some of the game's major strengths. Makes the game accessible and playable for a long period of time.
* The use of colors allow for a wide variety of settings and locations, away from the mundane worlds of greys and browns.
* Vibrant colors and a wide variety of locations do not prohibit the game from having 'dark gothic' locations within the game. Diablo 2 consisted mainly of vibrant locations, but that didn't prevent the Durance of Hate from being a part of the game.
So to set things right i'll try to explain those changes and refute all the baseless nostalgia fueled claims that make no sense.
1-claim one They say Diablo 3 is cartoony and colorful Validtiy:nonsense, if Diablo 3 is cartoony then real life is loony toons, Diablo 1 and Diablo 2 were more much more colorful and cartoony than Diablo 3, which is 40 times more realistic than both of them.
Proofs:
-NATURE is VIVID and COLORFUL and that DOESN'T MAKE IT CARTOONY
IF THIS IS CARTOONY
THEN THIS IS A PIC FROM LOONY TOONS
-RAINBOWS are a freaking NATURAL phenomena, it has nothing to do with your freaking PONIES
Let's play find the ponie, what ?, there ain't any, OMG !!!!!
-Diablo 2 and Diablo 1 were very colorful and very cartoony ( STATED BY DIABLO DEV TEAM )
DIABLO 2 DISCO TIME
Still wonder which one is cartoony colorful and bright and which one is realistic, then maybe you should you go check your eyes at the nearest doctor.
Also D2 had normal daytime and VERY BRIGHT environments
IT WAS NOT ALL GLOOOMY AND DARK, you don't know what you are talking about and make yourselves look like 15 years old emo-Gothic girls how want every thing black and blotted with blood and gore, GET A LIFE.
2-claim two They say Diablo 3 looks like WoW Validtiy:Not true, Diablo 3 has a slightly stylish look that looks nothing like WoW, Team Fortress has a stylish look, does that mean it looks like WoW or Diablo 3, NO, and also in general not every fantasy stylized 3d game is WoW.
Proofs: This is the very stylish and low poly look of WoW, you can see it's textures and details are greatly lacking and that the colors are not coherent, both hands and feet are large and anatomy in general is exaggerated
THIS is DIABLO 3, the COLORS are COHERENT, the DETAILS are CRISP, the TEXTURES are RICH, the MOOD is CLEARLY SET, the CHARACTER SKIN is very detailed and the anatomy is only slightly stylized and looks closer to real life than anything before ( even in D1 and D2 )
NOT EVERY 3D stylized game is WOW, get real.
AND STYLISH = NOT BORING
( they stated that countless times but you call yourselves Blizz fans and keep ignoring that )
No Blizz true fan would Want D3 to look like every freaking generic 3d hack and slash clone out there, they are all NOT stylized and look like each other.
Can you even tell the difference between the first screen shot and the other two, for your surprise they are both two different games, yet they freaking look the same, do you know why ?
BECAUSE THEY ARE BOTH FREAKING DARK AND BORING WITH NO MOOD OR AMBIENT COLORS, NO SANE DIABLO FAN WOULD WANT DIABLO 3 to look this GENERIC, BLAND AND SHITTY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------////
3-claim three They say Diablo 3 Armor is spiky and large Validtiy:That's hilarious, did you even check how the armor wore by the Barbarian in D2 looked like, seriously !!!!!
Proofs:
The spiky armor above was in the game, and this Barbarian 3D model here was the one used for the 2D sprite in the Diablo 2 game as stated by the artist himself, so, that bland looking armor or this new more detailed and realistic one.
The Barbarian heavy armor designs always featured spikes and huge shoulder pieces, and simple as that, it looks a lot better now.
Warhammer universe also has very bulky armor and there is nothing cartoony about it, it is a gritty universe.
That's all for now
And remember i'm not the one how created the current look for Daiblo 3, it is BLIZZARD, the same company that made DIABLO 1 and DIABLO 2 that you keep whining about, THEY KNOW BETTER THAN YOU.
THEY HAD VERY GOOD REASONS FOR THEIR CHANGES, and ALL you WHINE about IS NOSTALGIA, DARKNESS AND BLOOD, quite an argument, an perfectly EMO one.
This has got to be one of the best posts I've seen on these forums since the unveiling of d3, my hat goes off to you for actually putting in the effort to say what so many people wanted to.
Seconded.
I might, or might not agree with everything he says, but that's irrelevant. He has taken the time to argue for his views, and that very thoroughly too!
Just to remind everyone a lot of people dont mind the colors its just where the colors are placed. We dont want all the colors removed we just want a grittier atmosphere. Like hunter-Wolfs post he pretty makes us sound like we want no color in the game. You people need to really read out posts and understand we like color just not where it is. There is a certain lack of atmosphere where they are placed. There are other reasons he did not adress like the amount of violence you see as soon as you start playing D1 or D2 there is a huge difference between seeing blood and random corpses (some beheaded) to what you see in the D3 footage of the corpses disapearing.
I don't hate the new art.... BUT I would like for video options or something to let you suck most of the colour out, like a lot of the example pictures.
It doesn't sound like it would be too hard to implement or too unreasonable to ask.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If we're actually making the game worse with no other reason than to be different from WoW, then it's a bad choice." - Jay Wilson (D3 lead designer)
yeah seriously, cause there were masses of people.
here:
"New Tristram has been in existence for several years, though the exact date of its founding is unclear. Originally simply a collection of merchants looking to profit on adventurers and travelers drawn by legends of riches within the old cathedral, it slowly set down roots and became an established town. As soon as the cathedral was looted bare, however, the adventurers and travelers stopped coming, and New Tristram found itself in decline. The town is now comprised mostly of depressing shacks; the inn is the only building that looks even the least bit habitable."
I don't see how that lends to a clean, green cathedral. that was my point.
I think the explanation blizzard gave is a complete cop-out. *spit
IT WAS HIS GAME AND HIS VISION THAT HE WANTED TO MAKE, NOT THE FANS EMO NOSTALGIC VISION.
That's why game companies should never listen to people because 80% of them are immature and emo.
Said the Barbarian before proceeding to slaughter everyone
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3color/petition.html
Yes thats what i think as well, its not the colors i cant live with, but the block oversized models that are taken straight out of WoW, the characters armor is horrible and all the enviorment modeling is not proportioned, plus the characters are minuscule compared to the size of diablo 2 proportions, and since art is the first step of any game since it tyes in with collision physics its not gonna change unless we do something.
Yes, that's true. So what are you saying? Blizzard as it is cannot make a good DIII because old developers are gone? OK. GTFO of the website then!
I mean, if you only believe in Blizzard North, which is gone, what are you doing here? True DIII is impossible, according to you. But at least allow other people to be happy about it.
Exactly. They're making a big mistake from the way it looks as of now.
If you're part of the 8% that rock out everyday, put this sentence in your sig.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
We are suggesting that from past experience with the new Blizzard (WoW, SC2, and now D3), they can not get expectations right at first. They always start cartoony and wait for the community to beat them to hell before the change it. By always, I mean for the last two times.
We don't want a complete rehaul. We don't want them to change much of anything besides a color choice. Bring back those oranges and get rid of the blue-green glow in the dungeon. That is all.
For reference:
It's still very colorful, just not nearly as cartoony in appearance. Note: That's more than just filters. I actually went in and touched it up a tad as well (darkened shadows a bit to make it seem a bit more moody without getting rid of color, located the color range for the orange and toned it down a good bit, used lots of layers on this). It took me, about, 5 minutes to do this picture. That's a total of 5 minutes, not 5 minutes of work on this.
Also, since most of the world appears to be an odd mix of 2D and 3D, I don't think it would be that hard to mess with the 2D like I did and simply adjust the 3D to react to lighting in a realistic manner... something ALL Diablo fans should be expecting.
The above is what most people would be happy with. Those that wouldn't be happy with this are the ones who don't realize that it's the oranges and bright greens that make it look cartoony.
Also:
Get rid of the shoulder pads.
It could be because it's a screenshot :P.
I agree. I love the colors. I just think where they are using the colors needs to be changed. Just because you have a theory of green and blue in the right scheme making it a scary dungeon dosnt make it a scary dungeon. A bit more texturing and what not would be nicee to. Mostly I just want to see more of the violence and blood in D1 and D2-more random corpses and what not.
Good analysis. I see their reasoning for wanting to make the game more colorful, but they can do so without making it look so damn cartoony. And they need to get rid of the shoulder pads ASAP.
Inspirational, seriously :thumbsup:
Seconded.
I might, or might not agree with everything he says, but that's irrelevant. He has taken the time to argue for his views, and that very thoroughly too!
Good work, Hunter-Wolf!
It doesn't sound like it would be too hard to implement or too unreasonable to ask.
http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10657
Please search before you post.
"Cards and flowers on your window, your friends all plead for you to stay,
sometimes beginnings aren't so simple, sometimes goodbye's the only way."