Well look better. theres lots of OMG WATTA DO NOW WHEN NT IS NERFED.
Its still good not op as it used to be. And DH has other skills beside Elemental arrow.
Well look better. theres lots of OMG WATTA DO NOW WHEN NT IS NERFED.
Its still good not op as it used to be. And DH has other skills beside Elemental arrow.
The problem is that most of them sucks in one way or another. Elemental arrow is the most all prupose spender.
Spike trap: Pain to use against teleporter and most fast mobs. Way too high cost.
Chakram: Terrible pathing on most runes, or way too slow.
Rapidfire: Damage per hatered too low, only good at single target honestly, prevent you from kiting to do meaningful damage.
Impale: Strong single target, terrible at anything else, not cost efficient.
Fan of knives: cooldown.
Multishot: Absolutly terrible cost|(minus a single rune), terrible range.
Cluster: Ridiculous cost, absolutly terrible single target.
Strafe: Not terrible, way too random.
Every single EA rune is better then any rune of the above spells in most situations. Even lightning bolt, which is the worse. BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT. Screaming skull is the most reliable CC on hit in the game, 40% proc chance. Thats almost a garantuee fear per second with a crossbow, more with faster weapons.
With the exception of impale, hungering arrow beats about anything single target, simply because it has no cost.
our spender are in trash state currently. I hope blizzard release 1.04 soon. Because on the DH side, the game is about as appealing as choosing poop or poop. Note i dont want overpowered NT style spender. Just for them to all be useful at least aoe or single target. Not have some of them being downright so bad you would be a fool to even look at them or that have so terrible animations/pathing that any enemy with a run speed above 40% speed can barelly be hit by them.
Because on the DH side, the game is about as appealing as choosing poop or poop.
Sadly, it feels this way to me, too. As soon as this game was released and everyone had a chance to play with all the skills, it became abundantly clear how awesome EA is compared to every single other hatred spender for reasons that you already described. Until there are more "balance" changes, I don't see any better option than EA with BL now.
Well look better. theres lots of OMG WATTA DO NOW WHEN NT IS NERFED.
Its still good not op as it used to be. And DH has other skills beside Elemental arrow.
The problem is that most of them sucks in one way or another. Elemental arrow is the most all prupose spender.
Spike trap: Pain to use against teleporter and most fast mobs. Way too high cost.
Chakram: Terrible pathing on most runes, or way too slow.
Rapidfire: Damage per hatered too low, only good at single target honestly, prevent you from kiting to do meaningful damage.
Impale: Strong single target, terrible at anything else, not cost efficient.
Fan of knives: cooldown.
Multishot: Absolutly terrible cost|(minus a single rune), terrible range.
Cluster: Ridiculous cost, absolutly terrible single target.
Strafe: Not terrible, way too random.
Every single EA rune is better then any rune of the above spells in most situations. Even lightning bolt, which is the worse. BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT. Screaming skull is the most reliable CC on hit in the game, 40% proc chance. Thats almost a garantuee fear per second with a crossbow, more with faster weapons.
With the exception of impale, hungering arrow beats about anything single target, simply because it has no cost.
our spender are in trash state currently. I hope blizzard release 1.04 soon. Because on the DH side, the game is about as appealing as choosing poop or poop. Note i dont want overpowered NT style spender. Just for them to all be useful at least aoe or single target. Not have some of them being downright so bad you would be a fool to even look at them or that have so terrible animations/pathing that any enemy with a run speed above 40% speed can barelly be hit by them.
Cluster Arrow doing 390% (last rune) at a very fast projectile speed (almost impossible to miss) is bad single target? You may want to actually test (or at least look at) abilities before complaining about them.
Protip: You want to use Hungering Arrow and a spender. Maybe you'll notice how average EA really is then - just because you can spam it doesn't mean it's better than other spenders, it's merely easier to use since you don't have to look at your resource.
Actually protip i used them all plently of times. Cluster is bad single target because it can easily miss and because of the high cost, you need to spend a passive to make the cost, still terrible. As i said hungering arrow beat most of of spender not "all". It does not beat charkram or EA damage either. But the fact is you can fire about 10 times more EA with the same hatered pool then cluster. Meaning you do more dps longer then cluster. The speed at which it travel is meaningless too. It can miss enemy in movement unlike stuff like multishot and entagling shots for some reason and has no radius in movement unlike EA (except lightning bolt/frost arrow). For exemple ball lightning radius while moving (not impact) is twice the size of the largest wizard arcane explosion, the real radius is about 10 time larger then the animation of the spell.
At the end of the day, its still the cost that breaks cluster. Most everyone would rather use charkram, if it wasent for the terrible pathing id be using that over EA. But at last i had so many mob outrun, run into them or all of that put toghterer to even bother using them.
BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT.
Why do you say that it's damage is half of NT?
Because its what it does when you use it. Im not sure the tooltip is accurate has many have reported it has become common knowledge. You can test by using NT and BL one after another, it was the reason NT was the clear winner before, every hit was full damage. My current NT crits for 160k, my BL 80k. But now BL keept the ability to hit a target multiple times. Its not such a clear win for NT, infact on very big enemy single target, BL would be better now and large aoe of any enemy, BL is winning by a long shot. In the middle of those 2 NT is stronger.
Well look better. theres lots of OMG WATTA DO NOW WHEN NT IS NERFED.
Its still good not op as it used to be. And DH has other skills beside Elemental arrow.
The problem is that most of them sucks in one way or another. Elemental arrow is the most all prupose spender.
Spike trap: Pain to use against teleporter and most fast mobs. Way too high cost.
Chakram: Terrible pathing on most runes, or way too slow.
Rapidfire: Damage per hatered too low, only good at single target honestly, prevent you from kiting to do meaningful damage.
Impale: Strong single target, terrible at anything else, not cost efficient.
Fan of knives: cooldown.
Multishot: Absolutly terrible cost|(minus a single rune), terrible range.
Cluster: Ridiculous cost, absolutly terrible single target.
Strafe: Not terrible, way too random.
Every single EA rune is better then any rune of the above spells in most situations. Even lightning bolt, which is the worse. BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT. Screaming skull is the most reliable CC on hit in the game, 40% proc chance. Thats almost a garantuee fear per second with a crossbow, more with faster weapons.
With the exception of impale, hungering arrow beats about anything single target, simply because it has no cost.
our spender are in trash state currently. I hope blizzard release 1.04 soon. Because on the DH side, the game is about as appealing as choosing poop or poop. Note i dont want overpowered NT style spender. Just for them to all be useful at least aoe or single target. Not have some of them being downright so bad you would be a fool to even look at them or that have so terrible animations/pathing that any enemy with a run speed above 40% speed can barelly be hit by them.
Cluster Arrow doing 390% (last rune) at a very fast projectile speed (almost impossible to miss) is bad single target? You may want to actually test (or at least look at) abilities before complaining about them.
Protip: You want to use Hungering Arrow and a spender. Maybe you'll notice how average EA really is then - just because you can spam it doesn't mean it's better than other spenders, it's merely easier to use since you don't have to look at your resource.
Actually protip i used them all plently of times. Cluster is bad single target because it can easily miss and because of the high cost, you need to spend a passive to make the cost, still terrible. As i said hungering arrow beat most of of spender not "all". It does not beat charkram or EA damage either. But the fact is you can fire about 10 times more EA with the same hatered pool then cluster. Meaning you do more dps longer then cluster. The speed at which it travel is meaningless too. It can miss enemy in movement unlike stuff like multishot and entagling shots for some reason and has no radius in movement unlike EA (except lightning bolt/frost arrow). For exemple ball lightning radius while moving (not impact) is twice the size of the largest wizard arcane explosion, the real radius is about 10 time larger then the animation of the spell.
At the end of the day, its still the cost that breaks cluster. Most everyone would rather use charkram, if it wasent for the terrible pathing id be using that over EA. But at last i had so many mob outrun, run into them or all of that put toghterer to even bother using them.
meh cluster is where its at for me currently. running http://us.battle.net...XVYd!aeg!YcZcZb
only thing ive had problems with in act 3 is the big teleporters. basic stats: 45k dps, 18k hp, 100ish resist, 29% crit, 215% crit dmg, +19 disc, all in all nothing great. things die wayyyyyyyyyy faster than BL or current NT spam, bosses included.
as far as its range goes, all you need is practice with it, ie lead the shot. im really enjoyingthe play style of it, i shoot trap shotguns regularly so its a concept im alreay quite familiar with.
BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT.
BL hits twice.
BL i already covered. Yet it hit twice but it still does half damage then NT per hit. Thats why NT was a clear winner (before). Actually rapid fire hatered is terrible if you have to move alot. The cost is the initial activation. Unless the enemy let you sit there for over 2 seconds. Its very, very poor.
Multishot with Fire at Will is pretty amazing. It hits for slightly more than NT did, is spamable to a degree (7 or so shots before you have to refill), and it'll hit fucking EVERYTHING you point at *instantly*. With my gear at 40% crit chance and 370% crit dmg, it's smashing things for about 220-240K on a crit, which means pretty much any "small" mob. A salvo of 7 of them can clear *anything*. It gets rid of Illusionist clones by a single press of a button, so you can singletarget with hungering again. What's not to like?
Multishot with Fire at Will is pretty amazing. It hits for slightly more than NT did, is spamable to a degree (7 or so shots before you have to refill), and it'll hit fucking EVERYTHING you point at *instantly*. With my gear at 40% crit chance and 370% crit dmg, it's smashing things for about 220-240K on a crit, which means pretty much any "small" mob. A salvo of 7 of them can clear *anything*. It gets rid of Illusionist clones by a single press of a button, so you can singletarget with hungering again. What's not to like?
I think you guys are misunderstanding this whole thing. Yes i can make anything work in my gear too. I have 100k dps without ss even after nerf. I can use cluster or hell spike trap in act 4 and finish it if i really wanted (long and boring). Ask a lesser geared DH if he can use multishot effectivly or spike trap. No he cannot because he has to fire 4 spike trap to kill white mobs. Its when in lesser gear you can really see the issue of some spell. You can take other classes exemple, yes once amazingly geared you can be 2 handed barb and rape act 4. In trash gear you die in seconds while a defensive barb in same trash gear can clear act 4. It doesent mean 2 handed is working good or is working as intended. It means its crap and good gear overcomes the crap about it.
The game shouldnt be balanced about most everything being turds and amazing gear polishing those turds. I can theoricly make any spells work. Just need to boost my critdmg to do some 1 million crits, then i can use Sharpshooter and 2 shot a bunch of elites in act 4.
BL i already covered. Yet it hit twice but it still does half damage then NT per hit. Thats why NT was a clear winner (before). Actually rapid fire hatered is terrible if you have to move alot. The cost is the initial activation. Unless the enemy let you sit there for over 2 seconds. Its very, very poor.
If you use the 5 hatred activation, then its over 200% for 15 hatred, and gets better the longer you can hold it. You can actually kill most bosses before you have to move anyways (With good gear)
I've been somewhat following this thread and I don't think anyone has really thought the life leach part about NT. The life leach is just another word for life steal which blizzard commented on and said in each difficulty its reduced in its effectiveness, not to mention that its already as low as it currently is, you have to do something on the lines of 250k+ damage for it to be remotely good.
On to more important things though, I've been using both ball lightning and frost arrow since the over zealous nerf to nether tentacles and I've not settled on either one yet because they both behave like nether tentacles did hitting multiple targets with the exception of the life leach. They should have brought nether tentacles in line with those two abilities by letting 1 ball hit one target 2 times instead of 1 ball hitting one target 4 or what 6 times depending on the size of the monsters hit box (nether tentacles was retarded on the butcher!).
I feel like we are beta testing the game right now..........
edit: I got worried when my computer started making grinding noises but it turned out to be a cooling fan, I need to clean my pc!
Honestly speaking though I feel that using either of the three runes listed (NT, FA,BL) will come down to what graphic effects you like to see. I liked frost arrow because it was 170% dmg, it is a fast projectile and still able to hit the main monster with invulnerable minions.
I prefer BL because you can fire off 4 slow shots on reflect damage mobs and hit smoke right before all shots get to them and avoid taking any damage over giving them a ton.
"I'm just getting started. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical."
- Clay Shelton
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Now that NT has been nerfed, is it still better? Is Ball Lightning the way to go now?
They seem like identical skills now except BL seems a little slower and NT has a little bit of life leech.
Its still good not op as it used to be. And DH has other skills beside Elemental arrow.
The problem is that most of them sucks in one way or another. Elemental arrow is the most all prupose spender.
Spike trap: Pain to use against teleporter and most fast mobs. Way too high cost.
Chakram: Terrible pathing on most runes, or way too slow.
Rapidfire: Damage per hatered too low, only good at single target honestly, prevent you from kiting to do meaningful damage.
Impale: Strong single target, terrible at anything else, not cost efficient.
Fan of knives: cooldown.
Multishot: Absolutly terrible cost|(minus a single rune), terrible range.
Cluster: Ridiculous cost, absolutly terrible single target.
Strafe: Not terrible, way too random.
Every single EA rune is better then any rune of the above spells in most situations. Even lightning bolt, which is the worse. BL is the best aoe we have, its range is 3 time that of cluster. Its damage is half of NT. Screaming skull is the most reliable CC on hit in the game, 40% proc chance. Thats almost a garantuee fear per second with a crossbow, more with faster weapons.
With the exception of impale, hungering arrow beats about anything single target, simply because it has no cost.
our spender are in trash state currently. I hope blizzard release 1.04 soon. Because on the DH side, the game is about as appealing as choosing poop or poop. Note i dont want overpowered NT style spender. Just for them to all be useful at least aoe or single target. Not have some of them being downright so bad you would be a fool to even look at them or that have so terrible animations/pathing that any enemy with a run speed above 40% speed can barelly be hit by them.
Sadly, it feels this way to me, too. As soon as this game was released and everyone had a chance to play with all the skills, it became abundantly clear how awesome EA is compared to every single other hatred spender for reasons that you already described. Until there are more "balance" changes, I don't see any better option than EA with BL now.
Why do you say that it's damage is half of NT?
Actually protip i used them all plently of times. Cluster is bad single target because it can easily miss and because of the high cost, you need to spend a passive to make the cost, still terrible. As i said hungering arrow beat most of of spender not "all". It does not beat charkram or EA damage either. But the fact is you can fire about 10 times more EA with the same hatered pool then cluster. Meaning you do more dps longer then cluster. The speed at which it travel is meaningless too. It can miss enemy in movement unlike stuff like multishot and entagling shots for some reason and has no radius in movement unlike EA (except lightning bolt/frost arrow). For exemple ball lightning radius while moving (not impact) is twice the size of the largest wizard arcane explosion, the real radius is about 10 time larger then the animation of the spell.
At the end of the day, its still the cost that breaks cluster. Most everyone would rather use charkram, if it wasent for the terrible pathing id be using that over EA. But at last i had so many mob outrun, run into them or all of that put toghterer to even bother using them.
because each hit of BL is half of each hit of NT. NT is what 155%? BL is 155%, but with 2 hits
Because its what it does when you use it. Im not sure the tooltip is accurate has many have reported it has become common knowledge. You can test by using NT and BL one after another, it was the reason NT was the clear winner before, every hit was full damage. My current NT crits for 160k, my BL 80k. But now BL keept the ability to hit a target multiple times. Its not such a clear win for NT, infact on very big enemy single target, BL would be better now and large aoe of any enemy, BL is winning by a long shot. In the middle of those 2 NT is stronger.
BL hits twice.
meh cluster is where its at for me currently. running http://us.battle.net...XVYd!aeg!YcZcZb
only thing ive had problems with in act 3 is the big teleporters. basic stats: 45k dps, 18k hp, 100ish resist, 29% crit, 215% crit dmg, +19 disc, all in all nothing great. things die wayyyyyyyyyy faster than BL or current NT spam, bosses included.
as far as its range goes, all you need is practice with it, ie lead the shot. im really enjoyingthe play style of it, i shoot trap shotguns regularly so its a concept im alreay quite familiar with.
BL i already covered. Yet it hit twice but it still does half damage then NT per hit. Thats why NT was a clear winner (before). Actually rapid fire hatered is terrible if you have to move alot. The cost is the initial activation. Unless the enemy let you sit there for over 2 seconds. Its very, very poor.
I think you guys are misunderstanding this whole thing. Yes i can make anything work in my gear too. I have 100k dps without ss even after nerf. I can use cluster or hell spike trap in act 4 and finish it if i really wanted (long and boring). Ask a lesser geared DH if he can use multishot effectivly or spike trap. No he cannot because he has to fire 4 spike trap to kill white mobs. Its when in lesser gear you can really see the issue of some spell. You can take other classes exemple, yes once amazingly geared you can be 2 handed barb and rape act 4. In trash gear you die in seconds while a defensive barb in same trash gear can clear act 4. It doesent mean 2 handed is working good or is working as intended. It means its crap and good gear overcomes the crap about it.
The game shouldnt be balanced about most everything being turds and amazing gear polishing those turds. I can theoricly make any spells work. Just need to boost my critdmg to do some 1 million crits, then i can use Sharpshooter and 2 shot a bunch of elites in act 4.
On to more important things though, I've been using both ball lightning and frost arrow since the over zealous nerf to nether tentacles and I've not settled on either one yet because they both behave like nether tentacles did hitting multiple targets with the exception of the life leach. They should have brought nether tentacles in line with those two abilities by letting 1 ball hit one target 2 times instead of 1 ball hitting one target 4 or what 6 times depending on the size of the monsters hit box (nether tentacles was retarded on the butcher!).
I feel like we are beta testing the game right now..........
edit: I got worried when my computer started making grinding noises but it turned out to be a cooling fan, I need to clean my pc!
Honestly speaking though I feel that using either of the three runes listed (NT, FA,BL) will come down to what graphic effects you like to see. I liked frost arrow because it was 170% dmg, it is a fast projectile and still able to hit the main monster with invulnerable minions.
- Clay Shelton