I'd be absolutely, totally cool with Leah never being involved in the game's story again. Or Diablo, for that matter, at least not for awhile.
I'd like for the creative team to come up with something totally new and not typical Team Up With The Angels To Defeat Hell Lords stuff. Give the characters shades of grey - can't the main antagonist be a corrupt angel or even a nephalem gone bad?
I like this idea, I really do. The only problem is that the Team Up With Angels To Defeat Hell Lords storyline is pretty much what the entire Diablo / Sanctuary universe is all about, so it's quite likely that will continue. As far as characters having shades of grey, I think that some do, just not as in-your-face with their differences as some might have wanted.
I mean, look at Imperius. Angels used to be depicted as calm, serene voices of justice and light (or however you'd like to describe it). This dude is f**king pissed. All the time. Not very angel-y if you ask me. There are other examples in the game as well, but I do agree with you that maybe the story could have been a bit more complex. There really weren't any plot twists other than Adria's betrayal. Most of the storyline was very straight forward.
But then again, this is just my opinion, and we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.
Edit - Going back to my point about plot twists, compare Diablo 3 versus Diablo 2. There were demon uprisings, betrayals, hero corruption, backstabbing, close calls and mayhem all over the place. Do want more.
rubberbanding has existed since early beta, got a bit better over time but it's still there and it probably wont go away...saying that the problem is on our end ONLY is kinda ignorant...
flame on
The thing is 90% of people don't have the education or any real learning to be able to give any kind of realistic or unbiased opinion about what is actually causing it. And the 10% who do get washed over by a sea of complaints and are probably never even listened to.
My guess? Could be Blizzard servers having trouble. They use some of the best servers available from what I hear, but the stress of Millions of people moving in and out constantly, while also supporting in-game functions, auction houses... It would probably cause -any- server to have issues eventually. Another guess? It could be a result of our own connections at our homes having hiccups every once and a while (In before people say they have perfect connections, because no connection is perfect and they all hiccup at times).
Maybe it's a combination of both? Once again, the problem is that the general mass of players don't know. So there's no real reason to complain about it, or blame a single entity (even the ones hosting the game) because it doesn't even fix anything anyway.
I'm hoping for Imperius-centered expansion! Also, I watched the BTS dvd yesterday and Metzen talked about them "probably" doing something with Leah being in the abyss and us bringing her back.
You also have to think about the Black Soul Stone having fallen off heaven! We didn't see it shatter or anything! Guess who else is on Sactuary (Where it presumably landed?).
Adria.
She's still out there too. Having never read any of the books or anything, I don't know if there are spoilers out there already in written format or not. But I do look forwards to the next installment of the story. There are a ton of open paths it could take and unfinished character stories.
And Multishot hits harder than Nether Tentacles ever did, and it goes through Invulnerable minions just the same
Third, EA is overall more damage output than MS as far as hatred comparison goes.
1 MS with the 50% hatred cost rune is 20 hatred for 165% weapon damage. For the same hatred cost I can throw out 2 EA for 310% weapon damage.
The ONLY benefit MS has over EA is that you don't need to use it intelligently because its just one massive spread of arrows. But that's it.
Do I think they nerfed it a bit too hard, yeah, I would have sped up its projectile speed so it only got 2+ hits on really big creatures instead of every creature in the game. But that's just me.
I would have to disagree with your third point because I think overall you'll hit more targets on average with MS over NT (Unless you're running through the Keep Depths on Act 3, or something. But even then, they both will hit at minimum the same number of targets, and even in the corridors of the Keep Depths the mobs are often spread out a little). If you have to spread your nether tentacles out over any space that doesn't allow them both to clip a single target, then you wind up losing overall damage per hatred spent per mob.
Now there's another thing to consider here, not only the damage, but the damage per second as well. It takes twice as long to fire two nether tentacles as it does one multishot, and if the damage is being dealt to an area where one multishot will hit the same number (Or likely more) as two nether tentacles spread out, then you lose out on overall damage per second. And even if you run back to a corridor where you can effectively funnel the enemy group for a perfect nether tentacle hit, you're still losing damage due to downtime running around and positioning, whereas I can pop around a corner and instantly blow an entire group away in less than a second with multi shot.
Now to the topic of single target damage (Bosses), I think that it's a moot point because in my build I don't use MS to DPS bosses anyway. It's all about impale and that massive single target damage that it brings. And once again, we have to talk about DPS here, not just individual spell damage. You can dump hatred much faster with imaple for potentially more damage (and quite often this is true, especially with any crits at all and the Grievous Wounds rune) than sitting there rattling off two and a half nether tentacles.
As for nerfing of the skill? Well, these things take time to truly get right. They needed a fix, and they needed it now, so they went with their gut feeling. Not all decisions are perfect, so perhaps in time they will give it a little bump or something. I still maintain that allowing it to hit things multiple times like it used to would be fine if they buffed the cost of the skill so it couldn't be used as effectively as Multi Shot with a quarter of the cost.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane <stopped reading right there>
You're wrong. It deals amazing damage, 155% weapon damage. It hits everything in a narrow lane, which means its doing 155% weapon damage times however many mobs you get in the lane. If you were intelligent enough to know how to actually use the ability hitting EVERY mob you have aggro on is a non issue. If you are too stupid to use the skill properly, that is no ones fault but your own, but since you are complaining about the "very narrow lane" you obviously don't know what you're doing. As such anything further in your post is probably more utter garbage and wasn't worth reading.
While I agree that he is wrong, I disagree with your method for bringing your opinion to the topic. It doesn't mean that he's dumb, and it doesn't mean that you should post without reading his entire argument. That in turn makes -you- uninformed about anything that he might have brought up, and can quite easily make -you- the fool in the discussion. Read first, think second, post third.
nether tentacle was a bugfix you know not a nerf =)
Lol that's a bald-face lie and Blizzard knows it. Nether's projectile speed crawls along at a snail's pace for a reason -- it was meant to hit multiple targets multiple times. They should have just reduced the damage but kept the multi-hit mechanic of the skill, or if they're going to remove the multi-hit then at least speed the projectile up to match the other runes. The way the skill works right now is just absolutely retarded.
In my opinion, they should have made it cost more instead of nerfing the damage. The problem was that DH's could bomb an entire room with layers of them for only ten hatred. If they'd bumped the cost up to 30-50 hatred, I would have had no complaints. Then you would have to think twice about just spamming it endlessly.
But he did gave you his thoughts, and my are similar. First you 'balance' skill, then you add and leave way, way more gamebreaking set (triple of normal regen of hardest resource to gain in game). You either balance all things around, or let people be OP as they want. Unless you want to discuss how near permanent Gloom DHs are fine, all talk about balance in game is null.
Nether tentacle at this moment deal crappy damage over very narrow lane with next to no life regain due to Inferno scaling. Multishot is nice for trash, but it's close range (not being able to even hit whole length of screen) makes it questionable to use against jailer/mortar/waller/teleport/vortex, not to mention it may be next thing on chopping block, the 50% hatred cost reduction rune is pretty much mandatory if you ever want to use it.
Impale is single target, which make runing anything other than Overpenetration iffy. Single target in this game works only if you face act bosses and perhaps if you finished all minions somehow from champ pack leaving golden mob. Unless you have 100k dps+ unbuffed, you will kite mobs for hours trying to get enough Hatred to kill whole elite packs with it.
Comparing other classes is pointless, I don't care for them. I rerolled from WD when I found I am unable to play in a way that suits me (pet or dot spread build, while not dying whole time to unkiteble enemies due to limited kiting arsenal). If other classes are struggling, why nerf DH and not buff those classes instead? It only leads to the point where every single class is struggling, and then you have blanket nerf on Inferno itself.
We're far from broken, in fact, we may have the best working resource system in game, both hatred AND discipline, THE FUN HAS BEEN DOUBLED. WD struggle on mana (static mana regen on growing mana cost of spells, k...), Barbs are not spending fury, Monk have barely any worthwhile spenders beside Mantra Spam, and Wiz... I guess they work too. But that doesn't offset fact that Nether Tentacle nerf hurt, together with not getting any changes to underused skills (non-bat familiar, sentry, strafe).
I currently run Impale with the Greivous Wounds Glyph for burst when I need to take down targets one at a time (Very useful for elite packs. AOEing down elite packs can be a real pain, but isolating one, and picking it off very quickly with huge damage crits is very effective). Then for AOE I have Multishot with the reduced cost, because it sharpshooter + autocritting an entire room to dead makes me giggle. Then I have Hungering Arrow with Spray of Teeth for even more AOE to help deal with large packs. Then of course, Smoke Screen, Prep, and Clatrops with the damage per second, because you can stack caltrops for massive damage in a choke, and the slow is just good any time when you're kiting. So far with all the builds I've played around with, this one is the best by far.
Nether tentacle was a bit OP, granted, but it is still a 100% necessary skill. Sure, could use multishot at its near useless 20 hatred a shot.... noty. Could use another elemental arrow... but... noty. Nether tentacle still pierces all targets, something that is essential against invulnerable mobs. It also has the life steal on it, which makes it nearly a must have against reflect damage mobs unless you have massively stacked other sources of healing via attacking.
I can't stay that I agree. Currently I run without Nether Tentacles, or any kind of Elemental Arrow and I've been farming act 3 and 4 in Inferno for quite some time. Nether Tentacles is not necessary, even against refect damage. Use smoke screen when you burst, keep kiting, and use a health pot amidst the health globes they drop as they lose HP and you're fine. And Multishot hits harder than Nether Tentacles ever did, and it goes through Invulnerable minions just the same. So I wouldn't say that it's 'required' at all. I also don't stack life on hit, or anything else of that nature either.
Edit - Also the life leech when it only hits once per mob is pretty abysmal at 3%. Sure it heals you, but for very little.
I've seen my fair share of topics complaining about the recent changes to Demon Hunters, and how we're nerfed, our class is broken, and how we're useless now, and whatnot. To respond to this, I feel some general knowledge may be needed.
First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
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Yes, most definitely. As a demon hunter, you can't have too much discipline. The more you have the better, even with the four piece bonus.
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I like this idea, I really do. The only problem is that the Team Up With Angels To Defeat Hell Lords storyline is pretty much what the entire Diablo / Sanctuary universe is all about, so it's quite likely that will continue. As far as characters having shades of grey, I think that some do, just not as in-your-face with their differences as some might have wanted.
I mean, look at Imperius. Angels used to be depicted as calm, serene voices of justice and light (or however you'd like to describe it). This dude is f**king pissed. All the time. Not very angel-y if you ask me. There are other examples in the game as well, but I do agree with you that maybe the story could have been a bit more complex. There really weren't any plot twists other than Adria's betrayal. Most of the storyline was very straight forward.
But then again, this is just my opinion, and we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out.
Edit - Going back to my point about plot twists, compare Diablo 3 versus Diablo 2. There were demon uprisings, betrayals, hero corruption, backstabbing, close calls and mayhem all over the place. Do want more.
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The thing is 90% of people don't have the education or any real learning to be able to give any kind of realistic or unbiased opinion about what is actually causing it. And the 10% who do get washed over by a sea of complaints and are probably never even listened to.
My guess? Could be Blizzard servers having trouble. They use some of the best servers available from what I hear, but the stress of Millions of people moving in and out constantly, while also supporting in-game functions, auction houses... It would probably cause -any- server to have issues eventually. Another guess? It could be a result of our own connections at our homes having hiccups every once and a while (In before people say they have perfect connections, because no connection is perfect and they all hiccup at times).
Maybe it's a combination of both? Once again, the problem is that the general mass of players don't know. So there's no real reason to complain about it, or blame a single entity (even the ones hosting the game) because it doesn't even fix anything anyway.
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I remember reading this somewhere before, but I have to use it because it's a perfect like. I think Bashiok is to blame for this quote.
"I like the way this makes sense in my brain."
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You also have to think about the Black Soul Stone having fallen off heaven! We didn't see it shatter or anything! Guess who else is on Sactuary (Where it presumably landed?).
Adria.
She's still out there too. Having never read any of the books or anything, I don't know if there are spoilers out there already in written format or not. But I do look forwards to the next installment of the story. There are a ton of open paths it could take and unfinished character stories.
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One-shoting entire groups with well placed traps is pretty fun too. I thought about running this but... Eh... Caltrops is just soooo goood!
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I would have to disagree with your third point because I think overall you'll hit more targets on average with MS over NT (Unless you're running through the Keep Depths on Act 3, or something. But even then, they both will hit at minimum the same number of targets, and even in the corridors of the Keep Depths the mobs are often spread out a little). If you have to spread your nether tentacles out over any space that doesn't allow them both to clip a single target, then you wind up losing overall damage per hatred spent per mob.
Now there's another thing to consider here, not only the damage, but the damage per second as well. It takes twice as long to fire two nether tentacles as it does one multishot, and if the damage is being dealt to an area where one multishot will hit the same number (Or likely more) as two nether tentacles spread out, then you lose out on overall damage per second. And even if you run back to a corridor where you can effectively funnel the enemy group for a perfect nether tentacle hit, you're still losing damage due to downtime running around and positioning, whereas I can pop around a corner and instantly blow an entire group away in less than a second with multi shot.
Now to the topic of single target damage (Bosses), I think that it's a moot point because in my build I don't use MS to DPS bosses anyway. It's all about impale and that massive single target damage that it brings. And once again, we have to talk about DPS here, not just individual spell damage. You can dump hatred much faster with imaple for potentially more damage (and quite often this is true, especially with any crits at all and the Grievous Wounds rune) than sitting there rattling off two and a half nether tentacles.
As for nerfing of the skill? Well, these things take time to truly get right. They needed a fix, and they needed it now, so they went with their gut feeling. Not all decisions are perfect, so perhaps in time they will give it a little bump or something. I still maintain that allowing it to hit things multiple times like it used to would be fine if they buffed the cost of the skill so it couldn't be used as effectively as Multi Shot with a quarter of the cost.
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While I agree that he is wrong, I disagree with your method for bringing your opinion to the topic. It doesn't mean that he's dumb, and it doesn't mean that you should post without reading his entire argument. That in turn makes -you- uninformed about anything that he might have brought up, and can quite easily make -you- the fool in the discussion. Read first, think second, post third.
Edit for spelling. Lulz.
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In my opinion, they should have made it cost more instead of nerfing the damage. The problem was that DH's could bomb an entire room with layers of them for only ten hatred. If they'd bumped the cost up to 30-50 hatred, I would have had no complaints. Then you would have to think twice about just spamming it endlessly.
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I currently run Impale with the Greivous Wounds Glyph for burst when I need to take down targets one at a time (Very useful for elite packs. AOEing down elite packs can be a real pain, but isolating one, and picking it off very quickly with huge damage crits is very effective). Then for AOE I have Multishot with the reduced cost, because it sharpshooter + autocritting an entire room to dead makes me giggle. Then I have Hungering Arrow with Spray of Teeth for even more AOE to help deal with large packs. Then of course, Smoke Screen, Prep, and Clatrops with the damage per second, because you can stack caltrops for massive damage in a choke, and the slow is just good any time when you're kiting. So far with all the builds I've played around with, this one is the best by far.
It's all preference, naturally.
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I can't stay that I agree. Currently I run without Nether Tentacles, or any kind of Elemental Arrow and I've been farming act 3 and 4 in Inferno for quite some time. Nether Tentacles is not necessary, even against refect damage. Use smoke screen when you burst, keep kiting, and use a health pot amidst the health globes they drop as they lose HP and you're fine. And Multishot hits harder than Nether Tentacles ever did, and it goes through Invulnerable minions just the same. So I wouldn't say that it's 'required' at all. I also don't stack life on hit, or anything else of that nature either.
Edit - Also the life leech when it only hits once per mob is pretty abysmal at 3%. Sure it heals you, but for very little.
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If you have no idea what you're even posting about, then don't post? Herp derp logic derp herp?
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First off, there is a difference between being 'nerfed', and being -balanced-. Nether Tentacles was a huge problem and was definitely very overpowered, especially for a mere ten hatred. It could hit multiple times, and dealt massive damage. That's a game-breaking skill. Now that it's been changed, I hear Demon Hunters complaining non-stop that we have no useful offensive skills anymore, and blah blah blah. This just isn't true.
Multishot does more damage, to a wider range of enemy units, even if it can't hit three times. Impale (especially with the Grievous Wounds rune) is capable of doing Three Hundred and Fifty Percent weapon damage, and that's not taking into account crit damage bonuses. That's one of the best (if not -the- best) single target damage abilities in the game. Smoke screen doesn't last three seconds so you can't just stand there and AOE everything down with no worries about taking damage, ever? Whatever shall we do now that we have to actually engage our enemies at range and use defensive abilities.
Now lets look at some statistics. I believe I read recently that Demon Hunters are the most played class, still, by a vast margin. Why would this be? Because it's still -very- easy to progress as a Demon Hunter compared to other classes. We do more damage than other classes, from range, with low-cost defensive skills that make us not only take less damage, but mitigate it all together. Sure we can't run around with 5k HP and 250k DPS anymore, but it's not like we're a ruined class.
Take a look at the Witch Doctor for example. This is a class that through nerfs that were necessary to balance other classes (I.E. Attack Speed and Demon Hunters, again), has been severely hurt. Now there's only a small handful of 'viable' builds that I've seen work from some of the best geared Witch Doctors out there. And believe me, most of them have tried harder to find good builds than most of the Demon Hunters out there because there are still staple skills that our class 'needs' to succeed. As it stands, the only build that I've seen that really works well in act 3-4 from a Witch Doctor is the mass block and life leech rain of toads build, and even then they can't do any realistic damage. So killing things takes ages, whereas Demon Hunters just Multishot a room and with Sharpshooter, and crit everything to dead instantly. Another thing to note, is that even with the 'tank-Doctor' build, they can only deal with so many mobs at once, while Demon Hunters can kite a seemingly endless number of enemies with decent play and just a little bit of scoot-and-shooting.
In conclusion, I guess what I'm trying to say is Demon Hunters... Your options are there. Spend less time raging at Blizzard for balancing our class, and spend more time figuring out how to abuse (in my opinion) the other abilities that give Demon Hunters a step ahead of the other classes. Believe me, there are plenty there that still make Inferno a cakewalk.
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Also, just to note, Super sadface when Azmodan dropped one item with iLvl above 60. >_>
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