Let's look at all of this from a another point of view!
Angels are symbols of good. Not just in the real world, but also in Diablo universe. That includes understanding, morale etc. I doubt that Imperius would act on his own, or rebel against the council. It would be more realistic if he accepts the final decision of the council. Now, I know that he is a big shot in the council, but he still has to respect their decisions, right. Why should he be ill tempered?
he's ill tempered cuz his nature is fierce
besides it's for the "greater" good
you know the saying that wrong is right
which means u gotta do some wrong to do right
Let's look at all of this from a another point of view!
Angels are symbols of good. Not just in the real world, but also in Diablo universe. That includes understanding, morale etc. I doubt that Imperius would act on his own, or rebel against the council. It would be more realistic if he accepts the final decision of the council. Now, I know that he is a big shot in the council, but he still has to respect their decisions, right. Why should he be ill tempered?
i think you r right about Imperius not acting against the council, not only because angels are symbols of good, but because in the Diablo universe angels represent the forces of Order. however, angels can manipulate the facts to justify their actions, when necessary, as we saw with Inarius, and even Tyrael's actions in the Sin War novels.
And then, of course, there's the possibility that he is not attacking us at all, and is coming to warn us and aid us in the struggle against some demonic force (unlikely, i know, but still possible).
Archanum, Zombie - thank you both I know it's not the best but i've been goin hard at it ever since I was a little one.
I think that even though Angels may be 'symbols' of Good, even they can be corrupt or whatever. Take a look at the US government... (yes, I live in the US) It's supposed to be good and just and representing their people, but really that's not goin' on. The case could be the same with Imperius.
Archanum, Zombie - thank you both I know it's not the best but i've been goin hard at it ever since I was a little one.
I think that even though Angels may be 'symbols' of Good, even they can be corrupt or whatever. Take a look at the US government... (yes, I live in the US) It's supposed to be good and just and representing their people, but really that's not goin' on. The case could be the same with Imperius.
hell i heard that the government lies to the people about some secret mass destruction weapon (i just made that up lol) maybe it's the same kind of same situation wit heaven, maybe they're hiding something and Imperius reveals it to us
Let's look at all of this from a another point of view!
Angels are symbols of good. Not just in the real world, but also in Diablo universe. That includes understanding, morale etc. I doubt that Imperius would act on his own, or rebel against the council. It would be more realistic if he accepts the final decision of the council. Now, I know that he is a big shot in the council, but he still has to respect their decisions, right. Why should he be ill tempered?
I understand but we have to get over this idea that angels=good and demons=bad in the world of Sanctuary. If you read the Sin War, this comes to the forefront. Angels=order and demons=chaos.
In Sanctuary it is all about the "Balance"...without equal evil to balance good...good would turn on itself and become evil. Kind of confusing but if you read the Sin War you can really get into the philosophy of it.
Basically what I am trying to say is this:
The universe of Sanctuary isn't our world...they don't equate angels with good and demons with bad. Trust me, both sides have done some very "bad" things. So I don't think it works to justify the fact that Imperius will not rebel against the council by saying that he is an angel and that angels=good. Angels have their own agenda and will do whatever they can to see their "order" established. Imperius could very well just justify rebelling the council and destroying Sanctuary by saying that it simply went against what he viewed as order.
Let's look at all of this from a another point of view!
Angels are symbols of good. Not just in the real world, but also in Diablo universe. That includes understanding, morale etc. I doubt that Imperius would act on his own, or rebel against the council. It would be more realistic if he accepts the final decision of the council. Now, I know that he is a big shot in the council, but he still has to respect their decisions, right. Why should he be ill tempered?
I used to view the Angels of the Diablo world as good, but since I've been reading the Sin War, my opinion has changed.
Demons are bad because they want complete and utter destruction of everything that isn't under their control. They want chaos to reign. The funny thing is that the Angels want exactly the same thing but for complete order and obedience to reign.
This is what Archanum is talking about.
"Light and Dark are not necessarily good and evil, son of Diomedes. Yes, good must outshine evil, but if the knowledge of evil is erased utterly, even good may turn on itself..." - Trag' Oul - The Scales of the Serpent
Imperius as well as any other celestrial being, demon and angel alike are threats to Sanctuary. Neither side likes Sanctuaries existence, and only values it as a means to defeat the other.
Inarius, He's the wild card.
He was one of the most powerful of the High Council and at the end of the Sin War he was "dealt with."
The exact means as to his imprisonment or what the Council did to him wasn't really specified.
In truth, the World Stone wasn't the barrier that kept the Angles and the Demons out of Sanctuary.
After the Council Voted against complete destruction of Inarius' creation (with Tyreal casting the deciding vote) at the end of the Sin War a Truce was called by the 3 Prime Evils with the High Council.
Both sides knew that if one side made a full on play to take over Sanctuary the other side would make immediate steps to stop them. The end result would be a continuous cycle of collateral damage that in the end distroy what both sides wanted to have.
It doesn't say in the book if anything was done to the world stone to help enforce this Truce so that could be a possibility. But we do know that from the original Diablo Lore, that the Prime Evils were cast out of Hell by the Lessor Evils.
The Council may have made certain allowances to this small breach in the Truce since the 3 Demons weren't seen as a concentrated effort by hell to invade Sanctuary. I imagine Tyreal may have thought differently on the matter and worked to help the mortals with combating them with as little direct action as possible.
The World Stone was probably the greatest weapon the mortals could have used against either side had they made a aggressive play againts Sanctuary. But with it gone the only thing staying both sides hands was the original reason both sides pulled back. Each side was interested in the mortals capacity to choice and/or power they could wield as foot soldiers.
Now we return to the beginning of this post...Inarius.
He was primary architect of Sanctuary. His power was the greatest of the Council and in a one on one fight I could easily see him beating the stuffing out of Tyreal.
Inarius may still be an Arch Angel, but he is no longer allied with Heaven. His primary goal (if he ever slipped the binds of this prison) would be to regain control of his creation by any means nessissary or distroy it and begin anew.
Inarius BUILT the World Stone, and in extention the Soul stones that housed the 3 prime Evils.
If anyone could resurrect the 3 Prime Evils to help him regain control of Sanctuary it would be him.
But then...I doubt either side would be pleased with letting him take control what both sides have been so painstakingly trying to influence onto their side...
Sounds all well and good...and you definitely know your lore...and I thought along the same lines as you once...but...
When the developer panel was asked if we would see Inarius in this game, they fumbled the question and didn't even know who he was...
Granted this may be a ploy to keep the secret..but still..unlikely I think.
And as far as the Worldstone not being what kept the Angels and demons out....I disagree.
True, there was a truce that was made. But we know that Sanctuary was hid from the Hells for a long time by the Worldstone...and even longer from the high Heavens...Once discovered angels and demons could get there but they couldn't stay because they didn't have an anchor to Sanctuary (i.e. when Tyrael tells you that he can't stay long because they powers that hold him to this realm are fading)
The only way to overcome this was to destroy the Worldstone. Tyrael tells us in the last act of LOD that it is what separates Sanctuary from the Burning Hells and the Hiigh Heavens. Because of the truce the Three needed it to look like they had no plot to enter Sanctuary so they staged their banishment but could not manifest on the mortal plane fully without the soulstones. This is where Izual came in. He helped stage the banishment and told them of the soulstones(which are shards of the Worldstone) and how to corrupt them. These shards of the Worldstone were the only reason the three could remain in Sanctuary and gain power. Then they moved on to the biggest part of their plan which would allow them to corrupt the worldstone enabling them easier access into Sanctuary.
So I do not entirely agree with your statement about the Worldstone not being what kept everyone out...
Going back to the whole Imperius theory (although a lot of this could also apply to the Inarius theory, or even the corrupted Tyrael for that matter), I noticed in Abd al-Hazir's writings on Caldeum, towards the end, that Zakurum had made a combeback and was (in Hazi's eyes at least) just as intolerant as ever. Now at first I thought Mephisto might have somehow come back, but perhaps Imperius is behind this. Granted, he never thought much of humans, and was all for eradicating them, but maybe something in the last couple decades (or Millenia) would change his mind.
Anyone else notice on the concept art on the official sight they removed the sketch of the two angels from the top and now it's just Imperius?
Blizzard is on to us!
Nope its there like it has always been. You just have to click on the "download high res" button when you click on it the first time and the preview pops up. ;-)
Nope its there like it has always been. You just have to click on the "download high res" button when you click on it the first time and the preview pops up. ;-)
Oh really?... I feel stupid now.
<runs off to check again>
Edit: You're right...
Well still they changed the intro so it no longer mentions the failing luminaries or whatever...
As for the sword vs. cross conversation, for certain no one knows what it is, but people will have their views and people will argue. As for me, I believe it is a cross and that that is not Tyrael due to the short/stubby wings and different helm.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
What are you basing that on? I've seen nothing to suggest that crosses in Diablo would be purely aesthetic. The way the iconology is used would suggest it's a symbol of some import.
There is no mention of crosses in the books or earlier games except for upside down crucifixes in D1.
There is no meaning attached to them lore wise that I have read or heard.
He means it's not related at all to Christendom, and given that assumption, it makes all the more sense that it is indeed an upturned sword instead of a 'crucifix' - And yes, upturned is hilt above blade, and cross-like.
Still, the cross exists as a symbol well outside that particular religion.
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he's ill tempered cuz his nature is fierce
besides it's for the "greater" good
you know the saying that wrong is right
which means u gotta do some wrong to do right
i think you r right about Imperius not acting against the council, not only because angels are symbols of good, but because in the Diablo universe angels represent the forces of Order. however, angels can manipulate the facts to justify their actions, when necessary, as we saw with Inarius, and even Tyrael's actions in the Sin War novels.
And then, of course, there's the possibility that he is not attacking us at all, and is coming to warn us and aid us in the struggle against some demonic force (unlikely, i know, but still possible).
I think that even though Angels may be 'symbols' of Good, even they can be corrupt or whatever. Take a look at the US government... (yes, I live in the US) It's supposed to be good and just and representing their people, but really that's not goin' on. The case could be the same with Imperius.
hell i heard that the government lies to the people about some secret mass destruction weapon (i just made that up lol) maybe it's the same kind of same situation wit heaven, maybe they're hiding something and Imperius reveals it to us
I understand but we have to get over this idea that angels=good and demons=bad in the world of Sanctuary. If you read the Sin War, this comes to the forefront. Angels=order and demons=chaos.
In Sanctuary it is all about the "Balance"...without equal evil to balance good...good would turn on itself and become evil. Kind of confusing but if you read the Sin War you can really get into the philosophy of it.
Basically what I am trying to say is this:
The universe of Sanctuary isn't our world...they don't equate angels with good and demons with bad. Trust me, both sides have done some very "bad" things. So I don't think it works to justify the fact that Imperius will not rebel against the council by saying that he is an angel and that angels=good. Angels have their own agenda and will do whatever they can to see their "order" established. Imperius could very well just justify rebelling the council and destroying Sanctuary by saying that it simply went against what he viewed as order.
I used to view the Angels of the Diablo world as good, but since I've been reading the Sin War, my opinion has changed.
Demons are bad because they want complete and utter destruction of everything that isn't under their control. They want chaos to reign. The funny thing is that the Angels want exactly the same thing but for complete order and obedience to reign.
This is what Archanum is talking about.
"Light and Dark are not necessarily good and evil, son of Diomedes. Yes, good must outshine evil, but if the knowledge of evil is erased utterly, even good may turn on itself..." - Trag' Oul - The Scales of the Serpent
Sounds all well and good...and you definitely know your lore...and I thought along the same lines as you once...but...
When the developer panel was asked if we would see Inarius in this game, they fumbled the question and didn't even know who he was...
Granted this may be a ploy to keep the secret..but still..unlikely I think.
And as far as the Worldstone not being what kept the Angels and demons out....I disagree.
True, there was a truce that was made. But we know that Sanctuary was hid from the Hells for a long time by the Worldstone...and even longer from the high Heavens...Once discovered angels and demons could get there but they couldn't stay because they didn't have an anchor to Sanctuary (i.e. when Tyrael tells you that he can't stay long because they powers that hold him to this realm are fading)
The only way to overcome this was to destroy the Worldstone. Tyrael tells us in the last act of LOD that it is what separates Sanctuary from the Burning Hells and the Hiigh Heavens. Because of the truce the Three needed it to look like they had no plot to enter Sanctuary so they staged their banishment but could not manifest on the mortal plane fully without the soulstones. This is where Izual came in. He helped stage the banishment and told them of the soulstones(which are shards of the Worldstone) and how to corrupt them. These shards of the Worldstone were the only reason the three could remain in Sanctuary and gain power. Then they moved on to the biggest part of their plan which would allow them to corrupt the worldstone enabling them easier access into Sanctuary.
So I do not entirely agree with your statement about the Worldstone not being what kept everyone out...
Blizzard is on to us!
Nope its there like it has always been. You just have to click on the "download high res" button when you click on it the first time and the preview pops up. ;-)
Oh really?... I feel stupid now.
<runs off to check again>
Edit: You're right...
Well still they changed the intro so it no longer mentions the failing luminaries or whatever...
gamma11 > east
Ugh how about you stop spamming all the threads, if you don't believe that's fine, other people do.
Crosses have no meaning in Diablo. They're completely aesthetic.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
There is no mention of crosses in the books or earlier games except for upside down crucifixes in D1.
There is no meaning attached to them lore wise that I have read or heard.
Still, the cross exists as a symbol well outside that particular religion.