Science is perfect because it's laws can't be argued against.
This is actually the definition of religion practiced by the close-minded.
Sorry mate, but you are more and more starting to sound like a religious fanatic.
Nothing is taken as absolute in science.
Science is not some other religion. It really is the true answer of the world that is slowly uncovering all the fog. How do we know? Science has tripled the average life expectancy since the age or religion. It also created world changing things like the internet, the computer, the refrigerator, advanced farming tools, etc. Why do these work? Because they do not require magic. Science works on the principles of mathematics, and that, even though religious people say it isn't, is perfect.
Why can't scientific laws be argued against, you ask? What I said before. Math. No matter how complex math is, it all breaks down to elementary school mathematics, just with greek letters, symbols, etc. Arguing against a scientific fact is like arguing that 1+1=0.
You can't argue with laws of science? Scientists do that all the time. What you smokin?
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Regardless, scientific findings that were once laws can change if they were found to be fallacious in the presence of a more suitable, more well-argued evidence.
I believe that science can't explain everything, and when logic and science can't explain a thing, humans seek the spiritual realm in an attempt to explain the unexplicable. I believe in spirits, as I'm certain that one haunts my aunt. Think she's crazy? I doubt the man she married (like, years after she told us what was going on) sees and feels everything and he reaffirms her story. She lives with my grandma and her 4 sisters (my aunts, duh) when she comes to Lebanon, and doors open and close, random sounds are heard. A "wooooooo" sound, like the wind makes, is head when every single window and door is closed. Closet doors randomly open, then slam shut. Can science explain that? She did tell me that he's really tall, he wakes her up at night, and just stares at her blankly.
I have a lot of faith in science, but I'm afraid it doesn't hold the answer to everything. It doesn't hold the answer to the question of "how was the world created?". The big bang? What "banged"? How did the thing that "banged" or expanded or whatever come to exist? How did the thing before that come to exist? How did the VERY first thing come to exist?
You can't argue with laws of science? Scientists do that all the time. What you smokin?
they actually argue theories.
Actually they argue the laws.
Some scientists are arguing about the functions of the law of gravity.
You all sound like religious fanatics. You guys(all of those claiming science to be the ultimate truth lolol) are all the same you just happen to be more inclined towards science. You're just too blind to see that your making it black and white when it isn't. I suggest you go take a philosophy class and maybe it will help you redefine what you perceive as facts and laws...
Mephy I agree with a lot of that. You have a perspective that isn't subjective towards 1 specific method or theory. Thats awesome. You're a philosopher too!
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
You can't argue with laws of science? Scientists do that all the time. What you smokin?
they actually argue theories.
Actually they argue the laws.
Some scientists are arguing about the functions of the law of gravity.
You all sound like religious fanatics. You guys(all of those claiming science to be the ultimate truth lolol) are all the same you just happen to be more inclined towards science. You're just too blind to see that your making it black and white when it isn't. I suggest you go take a philosophy class and maybe it will help you redefine what you perceive as facts and laws...
Mephy I agree with a lot of that. You have a perspective that isn't subjective towards 1 specific method or theory. Thats awesome. You're a philosopher too!
They argue about the functions of gravity, but that was never a fact, that is an aspect where you can hypothesize. Yet the fact is, that anything with mass must have gravity, and that is the fact
Philosophy is such a unique art that I don't really know whether it is human psychology or a religious art. However, like religion, just because science can't explain something at the moment, does not mean that you should run away from science because modern mathematical equations can't prove the "something out of nothing" which is the Big Bang Theory.
Scientists aren't stupid. And to minimize human error, they run multiple tests, in many areas in the world, before their idea could even be considered seriously. There's a reason why the Big Bang Theory is just a theory. And there's a reason why many options of possible beginnings of the universe are explored in school textbooks, and why Genesis is not. We observe the universe expanding with the use of energy, and we also observed that the universe is expanding from a central area. So, by the use of common sense and LOTS of math, we theorized that at some point, the entire universe was at some central area and because of so much energy being in one place, it exploded in many directions.
Religion turns to every scientific theory we have today, and simply "disproves" it using deities. Not only is this not an argument, it is a cowardly suggestion, simply due to the fact that this comment can't be argued against scientifically, and therefor is a go-to response to most religious fanatics.
I believe that science can't explain everything, and when logic and science can't explain a thing, humans seek the spiritual realm in an attempt to explain the unexplicable. I believe in spirits, as I'm certain that one haunts my aunt. Think she's crazy? I doubt the man she married (like, years after she told us what was going on) sees and feels everything and he reaffirms her story. She lives with my grandma and her 4 sisters (my aunts, duh) when she comes to Lebanon, and doors open and close, random sounds are heard. A "wooooooo" sound, like the wind makes, is head when every single window and door is closed. Closet doors randomly open, then slam shut. Can science explain that? She did tell me that he's really tall, he wakes her up at night, and just stares at her blankly.
You serious?
Coz I know a few people who've gone through similar things... Never seen anything with my own eyes, though I've been in some rather scary situations. Being in a graveyard at 10 at night with nobody around has been proven to be not healthy for your heart.
Fucking spirits I tell you.... I guess even death can't save some from staying a loser.
They argue about the functions of gravity, but that was never a fact, that is an aspect where you can hypothesize. Yet the fact is, that anything with mass must have gravity, and that is the fact
I don't know how you could call that a fact. Scientists don't know what causes gravity, so for all we know the fact that every known thing that has mass also has gravity is a complete coincidence.
As you said with you orange cat example, unless everything is tested then you can't call something a fact, and since it is pretty much impossible to test everything then nothing could be called a fact.
And I am not going to answer this pole because, like others have said, I don't think that Science and Religion are mutually exclusive.
As a forewarning, since this has happened a lot in the past: If, at any point, anyone should start trolling, flaming, or otherwise insulting anyone with differing beliefs, I will issue infractions.
They argue about the functions of gravity, but that was never a fact, that is an aspect where you can hypothesize. Yet the fact is, that anything with mass must have gravity, and that is the fact
I don't know how you could call that a fact. Scientists don't know what causes gravity, so for all we know the fact that every known thing that has mass also has gravity is a complete coincidence.
As you said with you orange cat example, unless everything is tested then you can't call something a fact, and since it is pretty much impossible to test everything then nothing could be called a fact.
And I am not going to answer this pole because, like others have said, I don't think that Science and Religion are mutually exclusive.
Coincidence? Not really. We know that mass causes gravity. Do we know the functions of it? No. We know that objects with more mass have more gravity. This is a fact that has been proven. Please find an example for me that says that this isn't true, because I am very curious. We see this because we assume that every part of the universe follows the same laws and we see star collisions all the time, not to mention black holes.
Also yes, you are right with my example. Yet the orange cat example deals with life, which can change, grow, and evolve. There is still a chance of my child, even though I am white and my future wife could be white, can be black. Measuring and dealing with life is not the same as measuring scientific laws of non-living things.
If my understanding of general relativity is correct (which it likely isn't) then "We know that objects with more mass have more gravity. This is a fact that has been proven" could be proven wrong because both energy and momentum can also cause gravity, although is much less amounts than mass.
But even if I am wrong on that, what I was mostly saying is that we have observed an incredibly small amount of the universe and to say that there is no exception to a "fact" we have come with anywhere in the universe is kind of stupid, especially considering we don't know how gravity, anti matter, dark energy or other forces that are pushing the universe apart or pulling it together work.
I believe that science can't explain everything, and when logic and science can't explain a thing, humans seek the spiritual realm in an attempt to explain the unexplicable. I believe in spirits, as I'm certain that one haunts my aunt. Think she's crazy? I doubt the man she married (like, years after she told us what was going on) sees and feels everything and he reaffirms her story. She lives with my grandma and her 4 sisters (my aunts, duh) when she comes to Lebanon, and doors open and close, random sounds are heard. A "wooooooo" sound, like the wind makes, is head when every single window and door is closed. Closet doors randomly open, then slam shut. Can science explain that? She did tell me that he's really tall, he wakes her up at night, and just stares at her blankly.
You serious?
Coz I know a few people who've gone through similar things... Never seen anything with my own eyes, though I've been in some rather scary situations. Being in a graveyard at 10 at night with nobody around has been proven to be not healthy for your heart.
Fucking spirits I tell you.... I guess even death can't save some from staying a loser.
As a forewarning, since this has happened a lot in the past: If, at any point, anyone should start trolling, flaming, or otherwise insulting anyone with differing beliefs, I will issue infractions.
This is not for discussion.
You turn me on when you're all serious and staffy. Take off your clothes and open your mouth, I will issue my penis into it.
We know that mass causes gravity. Do we know the functions of it? No. We know that objects with more mass have more gravity. This is a fact that has been proven. Please find an example for me that says that this isn't true, because I am very curious.
Newton:"All objects have inertia. It's a fact, it's proven, you see it everyday, and it never fails. Find me an example that doesn't, because I'm very curious"
Me:"Dah, light. Dude, buy some new measurement tools"
Same case. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying nothing can be 100% PROVEN by scienfic methods. Scientist assume what is called Law of causality, meaning that if X happens, Y must happen. Every force generates an equal force of opposite direction SO FAR, maybe tomorrow I'll be able to lift my car by pushing it down. Energy is never lost, only tranfered, until you talk to a quantum physicist. I mean, millions of theories have been proven wrong. Gravity itself was thought to be a force until Einstein arrived and said:"Nah-ah, gravity is actually a bend in space-time continuum, it's no force at all" Light is attracted by mass, and it has no mass at all.
I don't think you quite get genetics, heredity, etc. It's a long branch of science that is hard to prove anything, but my fingers will only type so much, so we won't get into that.
You know, you are essentially correct in some ways by saying that we can't really prove something for 100%. There might be an exception to every rule, law, theory, etc we have in science because there are so many factors (forces, energy, etc) that are involved. For example, if you bring up Newton's Laws, you will find that using them for smaller scale things is what they can be usually applied, but if you move into a grander scale, so many forces are put into place that you can not make a law out of it.
For example, let just say that when you walk, there is a force called the Nerd Force, that when you walk, every yard it moves you left 1 mm. No big deal, its a non factor, and you can safely say that in short distances, humans walk in a straight line. However, let's just say that you are walking to the mall that's 5 miles away. The Nerd Force that applies to you moves you 1 mm left each time you move 1 yard. When you finally reach the mall, you have moved 8 meters to the left. No big deal right? HOWEVER, what happens if for some reason, you decide to walk from Los Angeles to New York, which the distance is 2462 miles. You have moved a total of about 4 km to the left. Now that saying that humans move straight all the time has a problem. What happens, if, for some odd reason, you can walk on air and you decide to walk to the moon, which the average distance is 238,857 miles. So if you apply that with the nerd force, when you walk that distance, the Nerd Force has moved you 420 km to the left. And the number just keeps getting bigger.
The laws of science work, but generally if you move into a bigger picture, you have to account for every single force, energy, etc that's around, or else you entire mathematical calculation goes to hell when you test it.
You can't argue with laws of science? Scientists do that all the time. What you smokin?
they actually argue theories.
Actually they argue the laws.
Some scientists are arguing about the functions of the law of gravity.
You all sound like religious fanatics. You guys(all of those claiming science to be the ultimate truth lolol) are all the same you just happen to be more inclined towards science. You're just too blind to see that your making it black and white when it isn't. I suggest you go take a philosophy class and maybe it will help you redefine what you perceive as facts and laws...
Mephy I agree with a lot of that. You have a perspective that isn't subjective towards 1 specific method or theory. Thats awesome. You're a philosopher too!
functions of the law of gravity, not the law itself. provide me a primary source for this and maybe ill be more understanding.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
What people have been discussing since I last posted, all have contributed to the fact that neither Science nor Religion is 100% correct. They are both correct to a point. Is there a God? Lots of people believe so, but science hasn't proven him (or her) to exist or not. After experiencing some freaky shit myself, and from listening to others relate their stories, I believe there is a God. Angels, well there is lots of evidence that points towards extraterrestrials being believed as angels. What about some of the stuff that has been found here on earth that couldn't have possibly been made just by humans. What about the ancient paintings and drawings that the Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, and everybody else have made at that time that have been interpreted as angels? I mean when the Spanish sailed on over to the Middle Americas, the locals thought they were gods due to the metal armor they wore.
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Just as the Scorpion hunts...
Silently Lurking...
"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted." ~ Ezio Auditore de Firenze
Science is perfect because it's laws can't be argued against. We're trying to understand science, but that doesn't mean that it's laws aren't absolute because we don't know everything yet.
Let me get this straight...
You're arguing that science is perfect.
Then you go on to say that we don't fully understand science yet.
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"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
What I got from that was that the universe makes perfect sense and it follows the same rules throughout (the laws of science) but we don't see it because we don't understand the laws of science enough.
But that is just my interpretation of what he said and it could be completely false. I am mainly just posting this because I am kind of bored and this discussion is interesting so I would like to keep it going.
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Science is not some other religion. It really is the true answer of the world that is slowly uncovering all the fog. How do we know? Science has tripled the average life expectancy since the age or religion. It also created world changing things like the internet, the computer, the refrigerator, advanced farming tools, etc. Why do these work? Because they do not require magic. Science works on the principles of mathematics, and that, even though religious people say it isn't, is perfect.
Why can't scientific laws be argued against, you ask? What I said before. Math. No matter how complex math is, it all breaks down to elementary school mathematics, just with greek letters, symbols, etc. Arguing against a scientific fact is like arguing that 1+1=0.
thats what im gonna do too ^^
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I believe that science can't explain everything, and when logic and science can't explain a thing, humans seek the spiritual realm in an attempt to explain the unexplicable. I believe in spirits, as I'm certain that one haunts my aunt. Think she's crazy? I doubt the man she married (like, years after she told us what was going on) sees and feels everything and he reaffirms her story. She lives with my grandma and her 4 sisters (my aunts, duh) when she comes to Lebanon, and doors open and close, random sounds are heard. A "wooooooo" sound, like the wind makes, is head when every single window and door is closed. Closet doors randomly open, then slam shut. Can science explain that? She did tell me that he's really tall, he wakes her up at night, and just stares at her blankly.
I have a lot of faith in science, but I'm afraid it doesn't hold the answer to everything. It doesn't hold the answer to the question of "how was the world created?". The big bang? What "banged"? How did the thing that "banged" or expanded or whatever come to exist? How did the thing before that come to exist? How did the VERY first thing come to exist?
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Actually they argue the laws.
Some scientists are arguing about the functions of the law of gravity.
You all sound like religious fanatics. You guys(all of those claiming science to be the ultimate truth lolol) are all the same you just happen to be more inclined towards science. You're just too blind to see that your making it black and white when it isn't. I suggest you go take a philosophy class and maybe it will help you redefine what you perceive as facts and laws...
Mephy I agree with a lot of that. You have a perspective that isn't subjective towards 1 specific method or theory. Thats awesome. You're a philosopher too!
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
They argue about the functions of gravity, but that was never a fact, that is an aspect where you can hypothesize. Yet the fact is, that anything with mass must have gravity, and that is the fact
Philosophy is such a unique art that I don't really know whether it is human psychology or a religious art. However, like religion, just because science can't explain something at the moment, does not mean that you should run away from science because modern mathematical equations can't prove the "something out of nothing" which is the Big Bang Theory.
Scientists aren't stupid. And to minimize human error, they run multiple tests, in many areas in the world, before their idea could even be considered seriously. There's a reason why the Big Bang Theory is just a theory. And there's a reason why many options of possible beginnings of the universe are explored in school textbooks, and why Genesis is not. We observe the universe expanding with the use of energy, and we also observed that the universe is expanding from a central area. So, by the use of common sense and LOTS of math, we theorized that at some point, the entire universe was at some central area and because of so much energy being in one place, it exploded in many directions.
Religion turns to every scientific theory we have today, and simply "disproves" it using deities. Not only is this not an argument, it is a cowardly suggestion, simply due to the fact that this comment can't be argued against scientifically, and therefor is a go-to response to most religious fanatics.
You serious?
Coz I know a few people who've gone through similar things... Never seen anything with my own eyes, though I've been in some rather scary situations. Being in a graveyard at 10 at night with nobody around has been proven to be not healthy for your heart.
Fucking spirits I tell you.... I guess even death can't save some from staying a loser.
I don't know how you could call that a fact. Scientists don't know what causes gravity, so for all we know the fact that every known thing that has mass also has gravity is a complete coincidence.
As you said with you orange cat example, unless everything is tested then you can't call something a fact, and since it is pretty much impossible to test everything then nothing could be called a fact.
And I am not going to answer this pole because, like others have said, I don't think that Science and Religion are mutually exclusive.
This is not for discussion.
Coincidence? Not really. We know that mass causes gravity. Do we know the functions of it? No. We know that objects with more mass have more gravity. This is a fact that has been proven. Please find an example for me that says that this isn't true, because I am very curious. We see this because we assume that every part of the universe follows the same laws and we see star collisions all the time, not to mention black holes.
Also yes, you are right with my example. Yet the orange cat example deals with life, which can change, grow, and evolve. There is still a chance of my child, even though I am white and my future wife could be white, can be black. Measuring and dealing with life is not the same as measuring scientific laws of non-living things.
But even if I am wrong on that, what I was mostly saying is that we have observed an incredibly small amount of the universe and to say that there is no exception to a "fact" we have come with anywhere in the universe is kind of stupid, especially considering we don't know how gravity, anti matter, dark energy or other forces that are pushing the universe apart or pulling it together work.
Yes, I'm serious.
You turn me on when you're all serious and staffy. Take off your clothes and open your mouth, I will issue my penis into it.
This is not for discussion.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Newton:"All objects have inertia. It's a fact, it's proven, you see it everyday, and it never fails. Find me an example that doesn't, because I'm very curious"
Me:"Dah, light. Dude, buy some new measurement tools"
Same case. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying nothing can be 100% PROVEN by scienfic methods. Scientist assume what is called Law of causality, meaning that if X happens, Y must happen. Every force generates an equal force of opposite direction SO FAR, maybe tomorrow I'll be able to lift my car by pushing it down. Energy is never lost, only tranfered, until you talk to a quantum physicist. I mean, millions of theories have been proven wrong. Gravity itself was thought to be a force until Einstein arrived and said:"Nah-ah, gravity is actually a bend in space-time continuum, it's no force at all" Light is attracted by mass, and it has no mass at all.
Being a "scientific naturalist", I'm surprised you made this remark.
You know, you are essentially correct in some ways by saying that we can't really prove something for 100%. There might be an exception to every rule, law, theory, etc we have in science because there are so many factors (forces, energy, etc) that are involved. For example, if you bring up Newton's Laws, you will find that using them for smaller scale things is what they can be usually applied, but if you move into a grander scale, so many forces are put into place that you can not make a law out of it.
For example, let just say that when you walk, there is a force called the Nerd Force, that when you walk, every yard it moves you left 1 mm. No big deal, its a non factor, and you can safely say that in short distances, humans walk in a straight line. However, let's just say that you are walking to the mall that's 5 miles away. The Nerd Force that applies to you moves you 1 mm left each time you move 1 yard. When you finally reach the mall, you have moved 8 meters to the left. No big deal right? HOWEVER, what happens if for some reason, you decide to walk from Los Angeles to New York, which the distance is 2462 miles. You have moved a total of about 4 km to the left. Now that saying that humans move straight all the time has a problem. What happens, if, for some odd reason, you can walk on air and you decide to walk to the moon, which the average distance is 238,857 miles. So if you apply that with the nerd force, when you walk that distance, the Nerd Force has moved you 420 km to the left. And the number just keeps getting bigger.
The laws of science work, but generally if you move into a bigger picture, you have to account for every single force, energy, etc that's around, or else you entire mathematical calculation goes to hell when you test it.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Let me get this straight...
You're arguing that science is perfect.
Then you go on to say that we don't fully understand science yet.
But that is just my interpretation of what he said and it could be completely false. I am mainly just posting this because I am kind of bored and this discussion is interesting so I would like to keep it going.