There's a couple discussions (meetings) going on at Blizzard, hypothetically.
One, what's this exploit they're all talking about.
Two, can we fix it?
Three, what will that cost?
Four, what's the down side if we don't?
Five, can we identify who did it?
Six, What will that cost?
Seven, should we take action against them if we can identify them?
Eight, what will that cost (money/time/PR)?
And I'm going to add a nineth because this one's rarely considered. If we do take action, will this stifle peoples desire to let us know about these problems in the game. Will our source of information from actual users dry up due to them fearing reprisal. Essentially this is customer submitted information. It's quite useful for quality control/assurance. In most company situations it's vital and beneficial, but here I can see it as somewhat of a two edged sword as it were.
But, hey, this is kinda how a company works. And none of that involved actually doing anything, we're still in the what should we do, what will it cost phase.
So everyone that feels it should have all been fixed in a day, grow up.
The hate from you people is strong. I didn't find out about the exploit until it was to late to abuse it, which I would have done hands down. (I've learned doing the right thing is almost never the right thing and fuck it, I'm not getting paid to QA and test their fucking game, show me an abuse and I'll use it and if I get banned so what).
However the hate from people in general is amazing. Honest to god it didn't effect you in any way. The top steamers all used it and guess what, they generally play more then you people complaining and seem to have amazing RNG to boot. You already lost and had no chance at your precious leaderboard.
Just be happy the shits fixed now. Season 1 was going to be nothing but a giant fucking joke, anyone that though otherwise is retarded, all offense intended.
Just wait for season 2 to come out. It will be a more even playing field. There will still be "exploits" as you all like to call them, however the most abused shit will be fixed.
its been over a day now, i think they would've been banned or rolled back by now even if they were taking the're time. like i said blizzard would rather just pretend this never happened and hopes you will to, and again and again. this is why i didn't wanna play seasons, the mathiel exploit was out for over a month and they banned nobody, same with the gold exploit, and running t 6 rifts on lvl 1 chars then switching back to theyre 70 for max blood shards. you can do any exploit youd like and blizzard would not ban you if enough people do it. it takes time, it takes money, and they dont wanna waste money. i think them not doing anything proves that. theres people that cheated and are paragon like 600. not to mention theres a website that monitors paragon and people like to compete on that as well. thats completely ruined now. paragons are definitely enough to carry you an extra few greater rifts levels.
I do agree that Blizzard should calm the community down and send some kind of message that they take this seriously. Simply fixing it, without saying sorry and telling people that they will investigate the issue (without ETA) is not enough to calm the shitstorm this exploit did. We, community, would like to hear any kind of PR-related elaborate statement. Being silence for over 24 hours after the shiet started is just not professional and it only harms the company as well as trust of their clients.
Not taking serious steps right after the exploit was detected was a big mistake. They seems to forget that this 'we are godlike and we speak when we want to' attitude is not good in a long term. I do know most of the people on the forums are kids that are just raging and should be ignored, but they seems to forget that some part of their most trustworthy and loyal consumers are grown up people who takes PR-related things a bit more serious (as we need some respect in order to keep trusting the company).
My 2cents.
Statements like "We, community, would like" are very pretentious. You're not a representative of the community as a whole, or a majority, or even a significant number. We, the people who read sites like this one, or pay attention to reddit, or whatever, are a tiny minority. The majority of the community as it were, likely isn't even aware that such an exploit took place and there is no need to draw attention to it.
I'd like for Blizzard to ban some of the streamers who blatantly showed off this exploit, but considering this is the inaugural ladder season and thus mostly an experiment (Participation on the PTR was low and player testing was clearly fairly low quality as you can see with an exploit such as this making it to live.) it's hard for me to be upset that Blizzard isn't taking more serious action against exploiters. Now if in the future, in real ladder seasons, they don't address any exploits that pop up in a satisfactory manner, well that's another beast entirely. But this first season is more about data collection for them about how we, the players, play the game, than anything else.
Also I sincerely doubt that it's the "grown up people" who take the PR-related aspect of exploiting in a video game a bit more serious. I know that as I've gotten older I've started taking things like that much LESS seriously. I feel that it's the children that screech about it.
what i find amazing is that its the same 3-4 people hammering away on everyone trying to speak their own mind, as if they know everything and no1 is allowed to think anything but what YOU think... and quite honestly.. some of you need some reporting for the bashing you do..
soo how about you guys (you know who u are) took a nice cup of shut the fuck up and stop hammering peopleinto the ground for speaking their mind, cause i will say it again, YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING EITHER !
This is priceless, and I'ts two fold.
In the same sentence it defeats its own message and violates the previous.
It also reinforces that whenever I see that cute little icon to the left, I don't need to read any further.
Congrats on you being able to use those nasty little words too, it further drives home you really don't have much to say and need to try and make it more emphatic. Meh.
This "hypothical" process is how most companies would look at this. If you don't know what HYPOTHETICAL is, ask someone smarter. You'll get better results if you use nice words.
Did you want me to put in a disclaimer " I don't work for Blizzard"? Well there ya go. But I do sit in many a company meeting elsewhere and that above is generally how it'd go. With BLIZZARD, who knows. But corporately speaking, NOTHING happens quickly. HOPEFULLY due to some forethought.
All this picking at each other reminds me of rats fighting while the ship sinks...except they don't do that, they run for the high ground. It certainly doesn't contribute anything constructive. Maybe there's a lesson there.
it doesn't really matter, paragon xp is not actually on a leaderboard
If paragon xp trully doesn't really matter, why did these people spend hours upon hours milking an unintended use of the game for 100's of paragon points?
Seriously, why?
When people were rifting it forward, why did people get upset if a low level parapointer joined? Why did they kick 'em?
Seriously, why?
Exactly why doesn't it matter? I concede there's no "paragon point" achievement, but if they don't matter why are they even in the game?
Is a zero paragon point lvl 70 equal to a 400 paragon point lvl 70?
And these points will roll over into nonseanon eventually if not removed. And I get that the higher you go, the more exp it takes to move the bar, but ill gotten exp is ill gotten exp.
But that's farming intended mechanics, (chests/mothers etc.) even if not intended for them to be constantly sought out. (Unless you refer to the reset of level after two mothers killed and kiting into the fort for the campaign/quest bonus) That was fixed if I recall. and way weaker than this instance.
This GRift exploit is completely apples to oranges. In no way is it considered close to normal play.
because they wanted to, still doesn't make it a major issue anymore than cursed chest farming or the wretched mother farming outside new tristram
It's not even close to cursed chest farming or wretched mother farming.
The current exploit is not bad design. It's literally a bug where the Torment XP modifier would be applied while you're standing in town and you would, for some reason, still get XP on kills made in the Greater Rifts. If you think this is similar to anything mentioned above then you've got to be trolling. Standing in town getting (not killing anything) MORE XP PER KILL than your buddies who are killing the monsters.... that isn't anywhere close to "normal gameplay."
As far as I'm concerned anyone who actually thinks that standing in town getting tens of billions of XP per hour while not killing anything is "valid gameplay" is exactly the problem that this community doesn't need. It shows that some people will go to any lengths to justify things as "creative use of mechanics" even though they are clearly exploiting things to gain some kind of advantage. The community, and the game, would be better without these low-lifes and parasites.
We don't need people who know they're cheating but claim up and down the street they're innocent. Throw them the fuck out just like Lance Armstrong.
because they wanted to, still doesn't make it a major issue anymore than cursed chest farming or the wretched mother farming outside new tristram
It's not even close to cursed chest farming or wretched mother farming.
The current exploit is not bad design. It's literally a bug where the Torment XP modifier would be applied while you're standing in town and you would, for some reason, still get XP on kills made in the Greater Rifts. If you think this is similar to anything mentioned above then you've got to be trolling. Standing in town getting (not killing anything) MORE XP PER KILL than your buddies who are killing the monsters.... that isn't anywhere close to "normal gameplay."
As far as I'm concerned anyone who actually thinks that standing in town getting tens of billions of XP per hour while not killing anything is "valid gameplay" is exactly the problem that this community doesn't need. It shows that some people will go to any lengths to justify things as "creative use of mechanics" even though they are clearly exploiting things to gain some kind of advantage. The community, and the game, would be better without these low-lifes and parasites.
We don't need people who know they're cheating but claim up and down the street they're innocent. Throw them the fuck out just like Lance Armstrong.
I highlighted the only 3 questions in your hypothetical post that blizzard would really only care about.
Thankyou for doing that. It really helped clear things up. So now we know the following:
1. Blizzard only cares about money. Three times as much as usual.
2. Blizzard releases large content patches for a non-subscription games well past their sales peak.
Therefore we can conclude the following:
3. Blizzard can create new content for zero cost.
It therefore follows that Blizzard is not releasing nearly enough content, given that its costs them nothing. So that means they're greedy and lazy!
Look, it's pretty simple and been like this since forever ago:
If you want to take the risk of adverse action, however slight that risk may be, then do whatever you want. It's your money, you paid for the game, if you do something and blizz tags your account and a year from now bans you when warden is updated, then all is fair.
That said, there are plenty of people who 'exploit', run bots, run bots on alt accounts behind vpn tunnels/proxies, run t-hud, etc, and they're still playing just fine. It's not up to you to decide who blizz bans or why. They set the rules and they take whatever action they feel is correct.
Yes, a lot of people at the TOP do some unscrupulous things, but that's just how it is. Even then, those people play 10-15 hours every day. If you're trying to be on that level, that's fine, but if you're just putting in a few hours here and there to have some fun in the game, what's it to you?
So is it OK to exploit in seasons? Not if you want to RISK getting permabanned and lose everything - forever. Will it happen? Hard to say (see above examples). But you take that risk.
everyone who says its not a big deal are cusuals who dont play a lot, anyone who worked hard for theyre paagons and actually is competing gets the back end of the stick not the casuals. so please if your not even close to being on the leaderboard you have no right to say that its not a big deal. and they should be banned to send a message, them not banning them is saying that its okay to exploit in a competitive game, which it should be with the leaderboards. i understant it doesnt effect the casuals, but that doesnt mean it doesnt affect a lot of us. how would you feel if you stayed up 36 hours the firt day of release then slept 6 hours everyday since and played all the time and then have someone exploit and pull ahead of you on paragon and potentially in the leaderboards in the near future. not fun.
the exploiters knew what they were doing was wrong, they knew it was cheating, and it even made a lot of people quit and even made alot of people quit the game for good. if exploits like this keep happening and the exploiters keep getting away with this i cant see this game making another successful expansion let alone have seasons be sucessful. everyone will take it as a joke. which it kind of is right now, gaining 300 levels in 1 day. that sure sounds like competition to me.
If I'd stayed up 36 hours and then slept 6 hours a day, honestly, I would feel a deep sense of shame and probably start trying to find a job. Other than that, I agree with your point.
what i find amazing is that its the same 3-4 people hammering away on everyone trying to speak their own mind, as if they know everything and no1 is allowed to think anything but what YOU think... and quite honestly.. some of you need some reporting for the bashing you do..
some1 talks about "growing up", yet they speak to them like little children. how about you explained to them, in a normal way, what you think?! and not just run the over with your multiple theories based on NOTHING (you are just as much in the dark as they are!!)
some guy says they shouldnt "pretend to know whats going on" but in the same line, he fires his own 2 cents of whats going on... cause thats really smart..
soo how about you guys (you know who u are) took a nice cup of shut the fuck up and stop hammering people into the ground for speaking their mind, cause i will say it again, YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING EITHER !
I would respect you more if you didn't take shots at me in a cryptic manner.
You reacted quite wildly to my suggestion that perhaps you haven't the faintest idea what's going on behind the scenes, and accusing Blizzard of inaction is silly when you aren't privy to the protocol they may have chosen to employ to address this issue.
I don't get all the hub-bub about this anyway. It's a phoney contest.
Here's how ladder rankings work;
1) If you have a job, you lose.
2) See rule 1
3) See rule 2
I don't get all the hub-bub about this anyway. It's a phoney contest.
Here's how ladder rankings work;
1) If you have a job, you lose.
2) See rule 1
3) See rule 2
Ok fair enough. I work 10-12 hours a day and I don't pretend I have an honest shot at topping the ladder. But this is true for any competitive game (SC2, CS Go, LoL, Dota 2 etc), so it makes for a poor excuse to not care, especially when you want to contribute to a community that is bigger than yourself as an individual. When a ladder/ranking system is compromised, it's compromised on all levels, not just top. And anyone has a right to complain constructively about it. I don't think we should crucify people who take advantage of poor game designs (unless the user agreement has a specific clause against this). This just speaks to an imperfect product.
On the other hand, to say that Blizzard can create patches for free is ignorant. Nothing is free in a business. Who knows what the trade offs are for them putting more people or hours into patching this game that doesn't really bring them any money in.
The way I see it, there is more than one aspect to this. People need to stop taking shots at each other and Blizzard, and rally around being as articulately constructive as possible.
I don't get all the hub-bub about this anyway. It's a phoney contest.
Here's how ladder rankings work;
1) If you have a job, you lose.
2) See rule 1
3) See rule 2
Ok fair enough. I work 10-12 hours a day and I don't pretend I have an honest shot at topping the ladder. But this is true for any competitive game (SC2, CS Go, LoL, Dota 2 etc), so it makes for a poor excuse to not care, especially when you want to contribute to a community that is bigger than yourself as an individual. When a ladder/ranking system is compromised, it's compromised on all levels, not just top. And anyone has a right to complain constructively about it. I don't think we should crucify people who take advantage of poor game designs (unless the user agreement has a specific clause against this). This just speaks to an imperfect product.
On the other hand, to say that Blizzard can create patches for free is ignorant. Nothing is free in a business. Who knows what the trade offs are for them putting more people or hours into patching this game that doesn't really bring them any money in.
The way I see it, there is more than one aspect to this. People need to stop taking shots at each other and Blizzard, and rally around being as articulately constructive as possible.
My comments are more meant for these fucking babies that are saying they quit seasons, many even saying they quit D3, due to this exploit and the lack of action taken to "reset" the damage done.
Firstly, I don't believe them. Secondly, what difference does it make?
they rushed this patch as past as possible without any care so your right, you nailed it. they want people to keep buying the game, and future expansions, doesnt mean they are going to give two shits about the patch they create. like i said this exploit was in the ptr and they STILL didnt fix it. they knew pet doctors pets would get slaughtered in greater rifts and they didnt fix that either along with density problems conduit shrines in greater rifts and many other problems.
and what difference does it make...hmm, well first off i spent 150 hours about leveling to 400 and somone named gabynator and many other reached the same level in 1 day. no thats not a problem at all, only 50% crit, 10% crit chance, 10% cooldown, over 3500 life per hit, lots of primary stats, recource cost reduction, all of this combined is more then a whole piece a gear, and if gear means nothing then whats the point in farming?
One, what's this exploit they're all talking about.
Two, can we fix it?
Three, what will that cost?
Four, what's the down side if we don't?
Five, can we identify who did it?
Six, What will that cost?
Seven, should we take action against them if we can identify them?
Eight, what will that cost (money/time/PR)?
And I'm going to add a nineth because this one's rarely considered. If we do take action, will this stifle peoples desire to let us know about these problems in the game. Will our source of information from actual users dry up due to them fearing reprisal. Essentially this is customer submitted information. It's quite useful for quality control/assurance. In most company situations it's vital and beneficial, but here I can see it as somewhat of a two edged sword as it were.
But, hey, this is kinda how a company works. And none of that involved actually doing anything, we're still in the what should we do, what will it cost phase.
So everyone that feels it should have all been fixed in a day, grow up.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
However the hate from people in general is amazing. Honest to god it didn't effect you in any way. The top steamers all used it and guess what, they generally play more then you people complaining and seem to have amazing RNG to boot. You already lost and had no chance at your precious leaderboard.
Just be happy the shits fixed now. Season 1 was going to be nothing but a giant fucking joke, anyone that though otherwise is retarded, all offense intended.
Just wait for season 2 to come out. It will be a more even playing field. There will still be "exploits" as you all like to call them, however the most abused shit will be fixed.
I'd like for Blizzard to ban some of the streamers who blatantly showed off this exploit, but considering this is the inaugural ladder season and thus mostly an experiment (Participation on the PTR was low and player testing was clearly fairly low quality as you can see with an exploit such as this making it to live.) it's hard for me to be upset that Blizzard isn't taking more serious action against exploiters. Now if in the future, in real ladder seasons, they don't address any exploits that pop up in a satisfactory manner, well that's another beast entirely. But this first season is more about data collection for them about how we, the players, play the game, than anything else.
Also I sincerely doubt that it's the "grown up people" who take the PR-related aspect of exploiting in a video game a bit more serious. I know that as I've gotten older I've started taking things like that much LESS seriously. I feel that it's the children that screech about it.
In the same sentence it defeats its own message and violates the previous.
It also reinforces that whenever I see that cute little icon to the left, I don't need to read any further.
Congrats on you being able to use those nasty little words too, it further drives home you really don't have much to say and need to try and make it more emphatic. Meh.
This "hypothical" process is how most companies would look at this. If you don't know what HYPOTHETICAL is, ask someone smarter. You'll get better results if you use nice words.
Did you want me to put in a disclaimer " I don't work for Blizzard"? Well there ya go. But I do sit in many a company meeting elsewhere and that above is generally how it'd go. With BLIZZARD, who knows. But corporately speaking, NOTHING happens quickly. HOPEFULLY due to some forethought.
All this picking at each other reminds me of rats fighting while the ship sinks...except they don't do that, they run for the high ground. It certainly doesn't contribute anything constructive. Maybe there's a lesson there.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
"Ran greater rifts"
NAILED IT!
If seasons and leaderboards are to be taken seriously, blizzard needs to react on such exploiting.
With no monthly fee running, Blizzard can afford to (and should) slap out those ban waves much more frequently.
If paragon xp trully doesn't really matter, why did these people spend hours upon hours milking an unintended use of the game for 100's of paragon points?
Seriously, why?
When people were rifting it forward, why did people get upset if a low level parapointer joined? Why did they kick 'em?
Seriously, why?
Exactly why doesn't it matter? I concede there's no "paragon point" achievement, but if they don't matter why are they even in the game?
Is a zero paragon point lvl 70 equal to a 400 paragon point lvl 70?
And these points will roll over into nonseanon eventually if not removed. And I get that the higher you go, the more exp it takes to move the bar, but ill gotten exp is ill gotten exp.
So why doesn't it matter?
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
This GRift exploit is completely apples to oranges. In no way is it considered close to normal play.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
The current exploit is not bad design. It's literally a bug where the Torment XP modifier would be applied while you're standing in town and you would, for some reason, still get XP on kills made in the Greater Rifts. If you think this is similar to anything mentioned above then you've got to be trolling. Standing in town getting (not killing anything) MORE XP PER KILL than your buddies who are killing the monsters.... that isn't anywhere close to "normal gameplay."
As far as I'm concerned anyone who actually thinks that standing in town getting tens of billions of XP per hour while not killing anything is "valid gameplay" is exactly the problem that this community doesn't need. It shows that some people will go to any lengths to justify things as "creative use of mechanics" even though they are clearly exploiting things to gain some kind of advantage. The community, and the game, would be better without these low-lifes and parasites.
We don't need people who know they're cheating but claim up and down the street they're innocent. Throw them the fuck out just like Lance Armstrong.
1. Blizzard only cares about money. Three times as much as usual.
2. Blizzard releases large content patches for a non-subscription games well past their sales peak.
Therefore we can conclude the following:
3. Blizzard can create new content for zero cost.
It therefore follows that Blizzard is not releasing nearly enough content, given that its costs them nothing. So that means they're greedy and lazy!
#totallystuckittotheman
#highfiveself
#strokeneckbeard
If you want to take the risk of adverse action, however slight that risk may be, then do whatever you want. It's your money, you paid for the game, if you do something and blizz tags your account and a year from now bans you when warden is updated, then all is fair.
That said, there are plenty of people who 'exploit', run bots, run bots on alt accounts behind vpn tunnels/proxies, run t-hud, etc, and they're still playing just fine. It's not up to you to decide who blizz bans or why. They set the rules and they take whatever action they feel is correct.
Yes, a lot of people at the TOP do some unscrupulous things, but that's just how it is. Even then, those people play 10-15 hours every day. If you're trying to be on that level, that's fine, but if you're just putting in a few hours here and there to have some fun in the game, what's it to you?
So is it OK to exploit in seasons? Not if you want to RISK getting permabanned and lose everything - forever. Will it happen? Hard to say (see above examples). But you take that risk.
MeatHeadGaming - YouTube - Twitch - Facebook - Web
You reacted quite wildly to my suggestion that perhaps you haven't the faintest idea what's going on behind the scenes, and accusing Blizzard of inaction is silly when you aren't privy to the protocol they may have chosen to employ to address this issue.
I don't get all the hub-bub about this anyway. It's a phoney contest.
Here's how ladder rankings work;
1) If you have a job, you lose.
2) See rule 1
3) See rule 2
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
On the other hand, to say that Blizzard can create patches for free is ignorant. Nothing is free in a business. Who knows what the trade offs are for them putting more people or hours into patching this game that doesn't really bring them any money in.
The way I see it, there is more than one aspect to this. People need to stop taking shots at each other and Blizzard, and rally around being as articulately constructive as possible.
Firstly, I don't believe them. Secondly, what difference does it make?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
and what difference does it make...hmm, well first off i spent 150 hours about leveling to 400 and somone named gabynator and many other reached the same level in 1 day. no thats not a problem at all, only 50% crit, 10% crit chance, 10% cooldown, over 3500 life per hit, lots of primary stats, recource cost reduction, all of this combined is more then a whole piece a gear, and if gear means nothing then whats the point in farming?