I think micro transactions popping back up in Diablo 3 in any form just cheapens the game again. Granted you're not gaining any real advantage..but they've already got enough games with micro transactions ..lets leave Diablo 3 out of it.
I'm going to have to constantly fight the conservative mindset here.
I really wish people would stop convincing themselves "things worked this way before, let's just keep doing this forever" When reality shows there's even better methods to develop! But most people screw it up which only continues to perpetuate these fears. So please, let's try to open our mind to greater possibilities.
Once I get past the wave of nausea over 'Micro-transactions' your TL;DR is on point:
"TL;DR: Introduce all sorts of micro transactions but make sure they have zero effect on game play and are completely 100% optional."
It's trusting developers to do that and I have zero faith in any of them.
Lol. The trust factor, that I can definitely sympathize with. I seriously doubt they'd pull it off correctly, greed and small mindedness gimp most people from obtaining what they actually are trying to obtain. They developers would lose, the players would lose, everyone would lose. That's why we don't see it, we don't trust them, they don't trust themselves, nobody trusts them or the system. Kinda like communism, works in theory- The Human factor tends to ruin it.
Nothing! I wouldn't pay for any of those services. I wouldn't, however, be upset if microtransactions like voice packs or cosmetics were available, as they don't affect gameplay in any way. I WOULD be upset if extra character slots or stash space was available, though, because those both affect gameplay in that they would both allow you to store or "mule" more items than someone who hasn't paid. That gives an advantage because a person with more stash/mule space is faced with the dilemma of what to salvage/sell less often.
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i would choose my own religion and worship my own spirit, but if he ever preached to me i wouldn't want to hear it. i'd drop him, a forgotten god, languishing in shame; and then if i hit stormy seas, i'd have myself to blame.
Nothing! I wouldn't pay for any of those services. I wouldn't, however, be upset if microtransactions like voice packs or cosmetics were available, as they don't affect gameplay in any way. I WOULD be upset if extra character slots or stash space was available, though, because those both affect gameplay in that they would both allow you to store or "mule" more items than someone who hasn't paid. That gives an advantage because a person with more stash/mule space is faced with the dilemma of what to salvage/sell less often.
But that dilema is nothing more than a quality of life/gaming issue. What do you care if someone else doesn't have to salvage as much? I think youmight care if you have to salvage more, but it's just you so the salvage more really becomes more than what?
I don't like micro's at all. Usually once they creep in, they get worse.
I would love more stash, and might spring for it, but the thought of trusting them to keep these transactions neutral just isn't there.
I already bought the game. Why would i want to pay more for anything but big expansions? I wouldnt, and neither would any sane person
Mainly because you like the game and spend enough hours of your day playing it so you feel is worth to pay to enhance your experience.
Lets say I lose 2 hours a week struggling with organizing my stash and deciding what to shard and what to keep, if I was able to buy extra stash space and it would cost me less than what I would make if I spent those 2 hours working instead. Then paying for stash space would actually be the smart investment.
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Diablo Player and theorycrafter, also editor at BlizzPro.com
Extra stash space = Extra space on Blizzard's database, which actually costs them money. I would pay if the price was reasonable.
Cosmetic things would be nice if they were going to use the money to keep improving the game and making new content (which they do too slowly right now). If it was just to make them a little bit richer then I wouldn't buy anything.
@Bagstone,I think that those who rally against micro-transactions are those who seen and experienced the worst sides of it and simply cannot or will not justify its use, do so because they cannot trust developers to not abuse the system somehow or make the game pay to win. The worst abusers being those who created and gate content in a way that you cant earn it in the game without paying for it. So its not about the service itself but the abuse of it that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of many who encounter it.
I also think that, as a knock on effect of pay-to-win schemes, its encouraged a culture of 3rd party leveling / gold buying services and an has made a lot of gamers lazy. They don't want to put in the work for the rewards like you should so a lot of great games fall by the wayside because they take more than 10 minutes to complete.This has been bad for game companies and bad for gaming culture. A part of this could be attributed to the fact that gaming is a thing now, its cool, popular and competitive, you can earn money with it instead of it just being a pass time between actual things. A side note to that - it baffles me people who want leveling services or boosting, why pay for a game you want other people to play for you? but that's a whole other conversation.
Once I get past the wave of nausea over 'Micro-transactions' your TL;DR is on point:
"TL;DR: Introduce all sorts of micro transactions but make sure they have zero effect on game play and are completely 100% optional."
It's trusting developers to do that and I have zero faith in any of them.
That's a really nice post and I fully agree.
In theory, micro transactions are a fantastic way to supplement the game and to give the developer/company extra revenue. When it works, it drives down cost (if there even is a cost) of expansions/additions because many of the things that become micro transactions require relatively little development time, thus there isn't much overhead.
The problem isn't with micro transactions, but with the company and how they use/abuse them. For instance, I really hoped that the RMAH would lead to either more developer power (and thus faster, larger content patches) or that the extra revenue would drive down the cost of the expansion. It doesn't to appear to have done either.
If micro transactions were introduced to D3, that would have to change. The extra revenue generated by optional purchases would need to have an impact on either the quality or quantity (preferably both) of future free content patches, and would also need to be reflected in the price of an expansion. I realize that a ton of money goes into these things, but even a $35 price tag (as opposed to $40) would be enough to show that the model is working.
Just my thoughts though. I'd love to see micro transactions (that don't directly effect gameplay), if the extra money meant a better product. Just look at popularity of skins in LOL.
I already bought the game. Why would i want to pay more for anything but big expansions? I wouldnt, and neither would any sane person
Mainly because you like the game and spend enough hours of your day playing it so you feel is worth to pay to enhance your experience.
Lets say I lose 2 hours a week struggling with organizing my stash and deciding what to shard and what to keep, if I was able to buy extra stash space and it would cost me less than what I would make if I spent those 2 hours working instead. Then paying for stash space would actually be the smart investment.
Here's a novel solution. How about they just give us the appropriate space needed to stash all this loot for 12 characters? I paid $120 dollars for this game so far, and I can't even store the loot for a loot hunting game.
I'll buy as many expansions as they can possibly create. What I don't want is to be nickel & dimed for simple quality of life improvements. IF they want to charge people $5 for funny hats and all that ignorant shit, go ahead. But stash space impacts the game greatly.
The problem is, stash space is data space. The servers are already slow as they are, and while a lot of us could use the stash space. There's a lot of people that only play one or two characters and don't need all the extra stash space.
You could make the argument that extra Stash Space could be gated via large sums of gold and that might be valid, to be honest I wouldn't mind paying for simple quality of life improvements as long as the dev team put extra effort at delivering them on time.
I've played countless hours of Diablo 3 over a two year period for a mere 100 dollars. Renting a new movie can be two dollars per hour, I've played way more than 50 hours of Diablo. Netflix is what? 8 dollars a month, over 2 years that almost double what I've payed for Diablo. What about Traditional Cable? That has too be way more expensive, add in something like HBO and that's 15 extra dollars a month. WWE Network? 10 dollars a month, MLB.tv? 20 Dollars a month. What about getting Boxing or MMA PPVs? They are over 10 dollars/hour.
There a big problem with gaming culture and people taking the entertainment hours that games provide for granted.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Diablo Player and theorycrafter, also editor at BlizzPro.com
I think micro transactions popping back up in Diablo 3 in any form just cheapens the game again. Granted you're not gaining any real advantage..but they've already got enough games with micro transactions ..lets leave Diablo 3 out of it.
I'm going to have to constantly fight the conservative mindset here.
I really wish people would stop convincing themselves "things worked this way before, let's just keep doing this forever" When reality shows there's even better methods to develop! But most people screw it up which only continues to perpetuate these fears. So please, let's try to open our mind to greater possibilities.
Okay I'll phrase it this way, I'd prefer they worked on aspects of the game that actually need improvements i.e. itemization, PVP, etc etc etc. If you want microtransactions that should be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority. Adding in micro transactions effectively does nothing, but if your enjoyment of the game is peaked by new voice-overs or being able to rock an all purple set ..then have at it.
Also, if they dared add a micro transaction or fee to get more stash space, I'd probably be pretty pissed off.
I think micro transactions popping back up in Diablo 3 in any form just cheapens the game again. Granted you're not gaining any real advantage..but they've already got enough games with micro transactions ..lets leave Diablo 3 out of it.
I'm going to have to constantly fight the conservative mindset here.
I really wish people would stop convincing themselves "things worked this way before, let's just keep doing this forever" When reality shows there's even better methods to develop! But most people screw it up which only continues to perpetuate these fears. So please, let's try to open our mind to greater possibilities.
Okay I'll phrase it this way, I'd prefer they worked on aspects of the game that actually need improvements i.e. itemization, PVP, etc etc etc. If you want microtransactions that should be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority. Adding in micro transactions effectively does nothing, but if your enjoyment of the game is peaked by new voice-overs or being able to rock an all purple set ..then have at it.
Also, if they dared add a micro transaction or fee to get more stash space, I'd probably be pretty pissed off.
Okay... but those are two different topics and two different industries you're comparing. We're talking about and discussing Microtransactions. The people who develop and implement the finance structure within Blizzard aren't (or at least shouldn't be) the people are coding the game or people plugging in the extra artwork. They're the people applying a proper measurement of income based on the proper development of the game. Essentially what I'm trying to say is, we can have both. And it would be nice if BOTH aspects did their jobs to the best of their abilities and synergized with one another more beneficially.
There a big problem with gaming culture and people taking the entertainment hours that games provide for granted.
....and with that.....I'm out of this thread. Not the kind of conversation that's going anywhere.
No I wouldn't say that... He does bring about a valid point. People do seem to confuse what Games are supposed to be. That is, entertainment. People sometimes treat them like Second Lives, work and effort to reach the pot of gold at the mythological rainbow... essentially, always trying to reach for something that doesn't exist.
Additional stash space requires more server load and therefore justifies micro transactions. Furthermore, stash space is something that not everyone in the community wants/needs, so it's not as obvious as it seems.
Are you shitting me?
I've already payed for two boxes. Server hard drives aren't even close to that expensive. Even if they wanted to add 5 TB to each region it would only cost them $2-3000 ($5-6000 assuming they have to double it up for RAID arrays). That's not exactly something that a company which generates BILLIONS of dollars from Reaper of Souls should be worried about nickle-and-diming us over.
OH SHIT $3000 in server storage. Better charge them $1 per tab so that we recoup that $3000 and then make a few million on top of it!
Yeah, I'm not buying that. Literally and metaphorically.
EDIT
Not to mention that they had plenty of assets devoted to the AH (both computational and storage). We paid for those servers too. To act like they can't give us more storage because it costs too much is just belligerently asinine.
I think micro transactions popping back up in Diablo 3 in any form just cheapens the game again. Granted you're not gaining any real advantage..but they've already got enough games with micro transactions ..lets leave Diablo 3 out of it.
I'm going to have to constantly fight the conservative mindset here.
I really wish people would stop convincing themselves "things worked this way before, let's just keep doing this forever" When reality shows there's even better methods to develop! But most people screw it up which only continues to perpetuate these fears. So please, let's try to open our mind to greater possibilities.
Okay I'll phrase it this way, I'd prefer they worked on aspects of the game that actually need improvements i.e. itemization, PVP, etc etc etc. If you want microtransactions that should be at the bottom of the barrel in terms of priority. Adding in micro transactions effectively does nothing, but if your enjoyment of the game is peaked by new voice-overs or being able to rock an all purple set ..then have at it.
Also, if they dared add a micro transaction or fee to get more stash space, I'd probably be pretty pissed off.
Okay... but those are two different topics and two different industries you're comparing. We're talking about and discussing Microtransactions. The people who develop and implement the finance structure within Blizzard aren't (or at least shouldn't be) the people are coding the game or people plugging in the extra artwork. They're the people applying a proper measurement of income based on the proper development of the game. Essentially what I'm trying to say is, we can have both. And it would be nice if BOTH aspects did their jobs to the best of their abilities and synergized with one another more beneficially.
You do realize, if their adding items/features/functions/achievements/whatever IN the game, development/programming is involved in this...not just ''finance'' But anyways..not going to bother debating this anymore.. you have your opinion. I have mine.
In the end I don't care if they let people buy cosmetic stuff because you're pissing your money away, not mine. If it gets to the point where you can buy character slots, tabs, items, levels, whatever then I'll have a problem with it.
until they even hint or announce doing something like this, why are we even talking about it.
Look at the numbers, I've paid just 100 dollars for over 600 hours of entertainment over 2 years
That's 17 cents an hour. If I had kept my WoW subscription the entire two years I've played Diablo it would've costed me 311 dollars and that's without counting the cost of the expansion.
A netflix subscription would've likely been over 200 dollars over 2 years, the same would apply to other streaming services and premium cable channels.
I'm more than willing to pay extra cash for quality entertainment regardless of its genre, if Blizzard delivered on quicker content and quality of life improvements I'd be super happy to shell out extra cash. If another company decided to provide the same better and cheaper I'd likely make the switch.
Saying no outright to microtransactions just because you paid for the game is being super close minded, it has worked wonders for WoW and whenever they decide to introduce it to Diablo is it likely to be just good long term.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Diablo Player and theorycrafter, also editor at BlizzPro.com
Look at the numbers, I've paid just 100 dollars for over 600 hours of entertainment over 2 years
That's 17 cents an hour. If I had kept my WoW subscription the entire two years I've played Diablo it would've costed me 311 dollars and that's without counting the cost of the expansion.
A netflix subscription would've likely been over 200 dollars over 2 years, the same would apply to other streaming services and premium cable channels.
I'm more than willing to pay extra cash for quality entertainment regardless of its genre, if Blizzard delivered on quicker content and quality of life improvements I'd be super happy to shell out extra cash. If another company decided to provide the same better and cheaper I'd likely make the switch.
Saying no outright to microtransactions just because you paid for the game is being super close minded, it has worked wonders for WoW and whenever they decide to introduce it to Diablo is it likely to be just good long term.
It works/worked wonders for WoW because it let people get items such as mounts or other stupid things they could sell to turn a profit for in game currency or it allowed people to have the nostalgia factor for getting cool/unique mounts/pets. WoW is a terrible example of Micro transactions because most of them were used for the sole purpose of turning a profit in game.
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I really wish people would stop convincing themselves "things worked this way before, let's just keep doing this forever" When reality shows there's even better methods to develop! But most people screw it up which only continues to perpetuate these fears. So please, let's try to open our mind to greater possibilities.
I don't like micro's at all. Usually once they creep in, they get worse.
I would love more stash, and might spring for it, but the thought of trusting them to keep these transactions neutral just isn't there.
WD Season 8 https://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/Kildare/84509816
Monk season 7 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/MojoJoJo/42225505
DH season 6 http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/DeadShot/75655606
Angry Chicken http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/finiar-1655/WhoDoVooDoo/68187610
What? Me worry?
Lets say I lose 2 hours a week struggling with organizing my stash and deciding what to shard and what to keep, if I was able to buy extra stash space and it would cost me less than what I would make if I spent those 2 hours working instead. Then paying for stash space would actually be the smart investment.
Cosmetic things would be nice if they were going to use the money to keep improving the game and making new content (which they do too slowly right now). If it was just to make them a little bit richer then I wouldn't buy anything.
In theory, micro transactions are a fantastic way to supplement the game and to give the developer/company extra revenue. When it works, it drives down cost (if there even is a cost) of expansions/additions because many of the things that become micro transactions require relatively little development time, thus there isn't much overhead.
The problem isn't with micro transactions, but with the company and how they use/abuse them. For instance, I really hoped that the RMAH would lead to either more developer power (and thus faster, larger content patches) or that the extra revenue would drive down the cost of the expansion. It doesn't to appear to have done either.
If micro transactions were introduced to D3, that would have to change. The extra revenue generated by optional purchases would need to have an impact on either the quality or quantity (preferably both) of future free content patches, and would also need to be reflected in the price of an expansion. I realize that a ton of money goes into these things, but even a $35 price tag (as opposed to $40) would be enough to show that the model is working.
Just my thoughts though. I'd love to see micro transactions (that don't directly effect gameplay), if the extra money meant a better product. Just look at popularity of skins in LOL.
I'll buy as many expansions as they can possibly create. What I don't want is to be nickel & dimed for simple quality of life improvements. IF they want to charge people $5 for funny hats and all that ignorant shit, go ahead. But stash space impacts the game greatly.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You could make the argument that extra Stash Space could be gated via large sums of gold and that might be valid, to be honest I wouldn't mind paying for simple quality of life improvements as long as the dev team put extra effort at delivering them on time.
I've played countless hours of Diablo 3 over a two year period for a mere 100 dollars. Renting a new movie can be two dollars per hour, I've played way more than 50 hours of Diablo. Netflix is what? 8 dollars a month, over 2 years that almost double what I've payed for Diablo. What about Traditional Cable? That has too be way more expensive, add in something like HBO and that's 15 extra dollars a month. WWE Network? 10 dollars a month, MLB.tv? 20 Dollars a month. What about getting Boxing or MMA PPVs? They are over 10 dollars/hour.
There a big problem with gaming culture and people taking the entertainment hours that games provide for granted.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Also, if they dared add a micro transaction or fee to get more stash space, I'd probably be pretty pissed off.
I don't want a pay to win aspect for microtransactions.
PoE cosmetics and stuff? Go ahead.
In the end - Who cares if you wanna buy something then buy it.
Not your money wasted, only the person who spent it.
I've already payed for two boxes. Server hard drives aren't even close to that expensive. Even if they wanted to add 5 TB to each region it would only cost them $2-3000 ($5-6000 assuming they have to double it up for RAID arrays). That's not exactly something that a company which generates BILLIONS of dollars from Reaper of Souls should be worried about nickle-and-diming us over.
OH SHIT $3000 in server storage. Better charge them $1 per tab so that we recoup that $3000 and then make a few million on top of it!
Yeah, I'm not buying that. Literally and metaphorically.
EDIT
Not to mention that they had plenty of assets devoted to the AH (both computational and storage). We paid for those servers too. To act like they can't give us more storage because it costs too much is just belligerently asinine.
In the end I don't care if they let people buy cosmetic stuff because you're pissing your money away, not mine. If it gets to the point where you can buy character slots, tabs, items, levels, whatever then I'll have a problem with it.
until they even hint or announce doing something like this, why are we even talking about it.
That's 17 cents an hour. If I had kept my WoW subscription the entire two years I've played Diablo it would've costed me 311 dollars and that's without counting the cost of the expansion.
A netflix subscription would've likely been over 200 dollars over 2 years, the same would apply to other streaming services and premium cable channels.
I'm more than willing to pay extra cash for quality entertainment regardless of its genre, if Blizzard delivered on quicker content and quality of life improvements I'd be super happy to shell out extra cash. If another company decided to provide the same better and cheaper I'd likely make the switch.
Saying no outright to microtransactions just because you paid for the game is being super close minded, it has worked wonders for WoW and whenever they decide to introduce it to Diablo is it likely to be just good long term.