Grouping & Magic Find

  • #1
    Sorry if there is another topic on this, I attempted to search but wasn't able to find anything on it.

    What are your thoughts? These are mine:

    Not to spark politics (or even my jaded views on them), but grouping in D3 and averaging MF, is pretty much like a socialist economy, - "We share all the benefits regardless of participation." Where solo play = capitalism, in that "you eat what you kill."

    In the grand scheme of things if you have friends of the same skill / gear as yourself then ultimately this doesn't matter but with the current collective averaging of MF, there is a lack of incentive to group with random players.

    How do you feel about averaging Magic Find?
  • #2
    Well, on the one hand it combats the situation where one person will stack magic find really high at the expense of their primary stats and leech off the group. However, it introduces a problem in the process where the group will resent a person who has no magic find. I think it's a poor solution because all it does is turn the problem on it's head. Before, the resentment was on the group member that has so much magic find that their stats are poor. Now, it's on the person who either doesn't go after magic find or just has really poor gear in general and therefore lower MF.

    It doesn't help that since we can't create new games with game names, we can't say something like please have MF around x amount. Instead, we'll randomly be thrown into a game and who knows what we'll get. We'll see how it works out, but I fail to see how it's an improvement. At best, it's a step sideways, not forward.
  • #3
    Most important -as stated in several other threads concerning almost the same topic- it makes leechers useful. In random games a leecher will share his mf and gf, so you will profit. As well as he is, as you're the one killing most of the stuff. His killing speed goes way up, so does your mf. In cases of no leechers, sharing is still good, because some might be less offensive due to more mf, what will be shared. All win, that is what this system is about. Now you don't have to fear leechers in public games, and teamplay will be averaged out, same chances for everyone, even if you're the one with more mf/gf and better damage & cc, you chose playing with your mate, the fun is what's all about.
  • #4
    Quote from CrazyValheru

    Sorry if there is another topic on this, I attempted to search but wasn't able to find anything on it.

    What are your thoughts? These are mine:

    Not to spark politics (or even my jaded views on them), but grouping in D3 and averaging MF, is pretty much like a socialist economy, - "We share all the benefits regardless of participation." Where solo play = capitalism, in that "you eat what you kill."


    That is some pretty sound logic. Socialism is good. In capitalism, the slimy douchebag who takes advatage of everyone, Leechers in D3, get all the reward and do little to no work.

    Yah I think you hit the nail right on the head of the hammer.

    Quote from CrazyValheru

    In the grand scheme of things if you have friends of the same skill / gear as yourself then ultimately this doesn't matter but with the current collective averaging of MF, there is a lack of incentive to group with random players.

    How do you feel about averaging Magic Find?


    And then you let go of the hammer and smack yourself in the face....

    The only person hurt by this change are the people who want to be douchebags and take advantage of others, aka the leechers. There is no problem.

    The course of action they took was the only sensible one.
    One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away.
    A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
  • #5
    I see this kind of situation happening:

    Player A joins the game.
    Player B: hi
    Player A: mf?
    Player B: 60
    Player A leaves the game.
    Player B is sad :(
  • #6
    Bad.

    They should think of another way to share it at least. For example you share/give 20% of your MF to others so you receive that same percentange.

    So it could go like that : 4 Members. A=100 MF B=200 MF C=0 MF D= 400MF

    A- will share 20 MF between the 3 others (6.6 so lets say 7 MF to each) and is now at 80 MF before he receive others MF

    B- will share 40 MF between the 3 others (13.33 lets say 13 MF to each) and is now at 160 MF before he receive others MF

    C- will share 0 MF

    D- will share 80 MF between the 3 others (26.6 lets say 27 MF ot each) and is now at 320 MF before he receive others MF

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A- is at 80 MF before he receive others MF (0 + 13 + 27) so he is now at 120 MF from is original 100 MF

    B- is at 160 MF before he receive others MF (7 + 0 + 27) so he is now at 194 MF from is original 200 MF

    C- is at 0 MF before he receive others MF (7 + 13 + 27) so he is now at 47 MF from is original 0 MF

    D- is at 320 before he receive others MF (7 + 0 + 13) so he is now at 340 MF from is original 400 MF

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A- gained 20 MF

    B- lost 6 MF

    C- gained 47 MF

    D- lost 60 MF

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Those with high MF did not lose too much and those with lower did some gain.

    With the old system every one would've got 175 total MF so those with high MF would've taken a great loss (D with 400 MF) and those with low MF would have gained a lot (C with 0 MF)

    I just thought about this system right before I wrote this, but at first it seems fair to me.
  • #7
    you dont need to ask im sure it will show on character somewhere the ammount of MF that is average for the party (you will notice if is going up or down counting your own MF : P)
  • #8
    Wrong.
    Mf is not the only stat of importance, cc, heal, dmg, gf, something else... that's important. None with that kind of attitude will join public games. Or maybe he will but he won't be welcome. If his mf and killing speed are better he'll stay in his game. End of discussion!

    Edit: on those numbers:

    Averaged means: all numbers together divided by number of players. That's the mf per player. In that case:

    A = 100
    B = 200
    C = 0
    D = 400
    ----------
    S = 700 ==> 700/4 per Player or in numbers: 175 per player, none will have MORE and none will have LESS!
    That's the best part.

    Edit 2: see Yoda's math. But it's back to the old system, leechers are encouraged. Don't like it.
  • #9
    Not everyone cares about stacking MF, some want to feel powerful when it comes to their DPS and flashy damage numbers, this evens things out in my opinion, if a player is being egoistic running high MF and low DPS just because he wants to leech of the group this kind of makes him a bit valuable, and it kind of negates his purpose of stacking MF in the first point, i think this change will make people balance their gear a bit more in groups now.
  • #10
    Quote from insanetrasher

    Bad.

    They should think of another way to share it at least. For example you share/give 20% of your MF to others so you receive that same percentange.

    So it could go like that : 4 Members. A=100 MF B=200 MF C=0 MF D= 400MF

    A- will share 20 MF between the 3 others (6.6 so lets say 7 MF to each) and is now at 80 MF before he receive others MF

    B- will share 40 MF between the 3 others (13.33 lets say 13 MF to each) and is now at 160 MF before he receive others MF

    C- will share 0 MF

    D- will share 80 MF between the 3 others (26.6 lets say 27 MF ot each) and is now at 320 MF before he receive others MF

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A- is at 80 MF before he receive others MF (0 + 13 + 27) so he is now at 120 MF from is original 100 MF

    B- is at 160 MF before he receive others MF (7 + 0 + 27) so he is now at 194 MF from is original 200 MF

    C- is at 0 MF before he receive others MF (7 + 13 + 27) so he is now at 47 MF from is original 0 MF

    D- is at 320 before he receive others MF (7 + 0 + 13) so he is now at 340 MF from is original 400 MF

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A- gained 20 MF

    B- lost 6 MF

    C- gained 47 MF

    D- lost 60 MF

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Those with high MF did not lose too much and those with lower did some gain.

    With the old system every one would've got 175 total MF so those with high MF would've taken a great loss (D with 400 MF) and those with low MF would have gained a lot (C with 0 MF)

    I just thought about this system right before I wrote this, but at first it seems fair to me.


    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.
    One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away.
    A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
  • #11
    I see it as a tradeoff of find stats for survivability in group runs, It will ultimately lower MF/GF/EXP gain in groups overall. if three people have 1200 MF and one person has 1800 MF, that means the 1200 peeps are bumped to 1350 and the 1800 is bummered out of 450 of his hard earned MF gear.

    Groups will be run because of the social gain not the actual stat gains - in most situations it seems solo play wold be more beneficial to people from a find stat point of view.

    There would be a survivability gain from groups (heals, buffs and debuffs) which is an incentive to do them (inferno content)

    any thoughts?
  • #12
    Quote from jaclashflash

    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.
  • #13
    I think it's fine.
    Alot of posts also seem to suggest if you stack MF that you are not able to perform your role adequately.

    Why I think it's fine:
    Items in D2 can have 1 prefix and 1 suffex, so a blue items with MF , would mean it would have none , or next to no extra stats.
    Some Yellow items might also have MF and some stats as it could have more then 1 pre fix and 1 suffix.

    This is thrown out the window with d3, as there are easy craftable items with 5-6 random stats.
    So it's very feasible to have an excellent dps item also with MF on it.

    And unlike in D2 where only certain uniques/legendaries have MF on them.
    The legendaries and set items previously available stats shown them to have random properties too, So you could have your Grandfather 2handed sword with MF on it.
  • #14
    Quote from insanetrasher

    Bad.

    They should think of another way to share it at least. For example you share/give 20% of your MF to others so you receive that same percentange.



    with this mechanic you could easily double, triple or quadruple your stats...

    3 players have really low find on purpose - one person stacks find stats and then they share like 30 - 40% with three people. this one person would essentially be a super farmer and could get gear for the whole group.
  • #15
    Quote from insanetrasher

    Quote from jaclashflash

    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    So you decided I was a leecher? Anyway.. What I'm pointing is that obviously Blizzard want to make the game rewardable even for those who doesn't understand every systems (MF). But those who understand it will get penalized if they play with those who don't.

    So if Blizzard really want to make it so those with no MF has some gain, they should at least consider not penalizing the others too much.

    I'd prefer no sharing at all but if it is to be shared, at least don't share it at 100%.

    EDIT: The new system is great if you play in a planned group and if MF gear is always "a lot" worse than regular DPS oriented gear.

    But once you play with randoms you're f***ed.


    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
    One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away.
    A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
  • #16
    Who says that High MF = Shit DPS?

    There is so much 1 dimensional thinking here. Lets say we are both wearing this. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/artisan/blacksmith/recipe/exalted-grand-sovereign-helm

    Yours has 5 offensive stats and 1 stat thats +gold find, +health globe radius, +thorns, (light radius, jokez) or possibly another stat that is less optimal and mine has MF.

    Remind me again, how do you do have more "killing power" than I do?
  • #17
    Quote from jaclashflash

    No what is bad is your reasoning skills.

    Its like you want to be rewarded twice. You want the extra items, but you don't want any sort of penalty for your lack of dps at the same time.

    MF isn't free... All you leechers have this weird idea that you are like super pro and although your decked in MF and join this random group you will still do just as much dmg as everyone else.

    Well I hate to break this to ya, well not really, but you are not pro. And the faster you get over this delusion, the faster you can come join us in reality. Once there you will easily recognize this is by far the most fair system for everyone involved, and hopefully these terribad complaint threads can stop.


    Apparently you find people delusional for believing not all skill levels in online gaming are equal? Sorry to break this to ya, but there are people online that are terrible at everything. There will be people that will have completely offensive/defensive stats in Inferno barely surviving, and then there will be other people that have 300%+ GF and MF and surviving just fine. It's the same reason I can join a new custom game in SC2 and figure the optimal strategy out in 1 or 2 games and some people are on their 15th game still messing up.

    That's why if I care about loot I'll be on my main soloing Inferno. New characters I'm leveling I'll play group, if someone I know in RL plays I'll play a character with them, and if I happen to know someone that isn't awful I'll play Inferno with them.
  • #18
    Here is my solution to the MF problem. If a player with high mf does more than his share of the damage on a given monster, he gets to keep his full MF on said monster. So if its a 4 person group, the player would need to do 26% of the damage on a monster to get his full mf on that monster. 3 person group that magical 34% of damage for full mf, 2 person group, 51% for the full mf. So if there is 7 monster mob and the player with the highest MF does more than 26% damage on 3 of them, he gets his MF on those 3 and the group mf on the other 4.

    As far as those that hate mf, I think they take for granted the dps gear and stat. This is not WoW. You can't expect to attack as soon as your cooldown is done. You will be clicking furiously to avoid damage as well. In WoW, once you engage an enemy, its about who has the higher dps and def and what order your attacks are in. DPS matters, but the clicks of the mouse will matter. We can do something in Diablo that allows us to avoid attacks. WoW is all about numbers and number crunching and min/maxing or you won't be effective. I still believe that MF will be the endgame build for inferno. If you don't like a game where DPS is not the most sought after stat, I then think Diablo won't be for you.

    To be perfectly honest, I expect there to be a certian DPS level you want to attain. After that, you will also want MF/GF and something that has not even been mentioned yet in these debates, faster run/walk. I can't tell you how much time is saved by a little increase in foot speed in D2.

    Last thing on MF while I am here. MF was big on set pieces in D2 as a set bonus. These bonuses won't even effect the normal inferno slots. I have been surprised that the set piece discussion has been completely left out.
  • #19
    Quote from jaclashflash




    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    First of all, relax bro.

    Second of all I plan on getting balanced gears, not on stacking MF and doing nothing.

    And third of all, wake up this isn't Diablo 2. In case you didn't notice, even blue items now have a lot of attributes, so it is highly possible to get good DPS gear and as bonus on those gear, something called Magic Find.
  • #20
    Quote from CrazyValheru

    Who says that High MF = Shit DPS?

    There is so much 1 dimensional thinking here. Lets say we are both wearing this. http://us.battle.net...-sovereign-helm

    Yours has 5 offensive stats and 1 stat thats +gold find, +health globe radius, +thorns, (light radius, jokez) or possibly another stat that is less optimal and mine has MF.

    Remind me again, how do you do have more "killing power" than I do?


    You are falsely assuming you outgear everyone....thats just stupid and part of the delusion. You leechers are delusional. You are living in a fantasy world where you think you are entitled to get more than others.


    Quote from insanetrasher

    Quote from jaclashflash

    You are a leecher, you plan on joining games with very high MF and low DPS. That is the definition of a leecher in D3.

    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!
    MAGIC FIND IS NOT A FREE STAT!!!!


    Idk what is hard about that to understand..... You have to give something up to stack that stat. You are not better than other players because you have more Magic find then they do.

    ONE QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!


    First of all, relax bro.

    Second of all I plan on getting balanced gears, not on stacking MF and doing nothing.

    And third of all, wake up this isn't Diablo 2. In case you didn't notice, even blue items now have a lot of attributes, so it is highly possible to get good DPS gear and as bonus on those gear, something called Magic Find.


    And again, ignore the msg that was in huge red text....its like talking about religion. Lets ignore the big elephant in the room, and talk about this other BS.

    And you people don't think you are delusional, whats that 3 people now that think they will outgear everyone else?
    One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away.
    A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
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