wow.... ..... I really don't even know what to say to you....
I am baffled by how you can say that an ability that snares wouldn't be used differently than one that doesn't...
...
Actually, I think I know what your problem is. You're taking these skills in a vacuum. Yes, individually, the summon spider spell doesn't change that much in how you cast it. You're absolutely correct.
But the fact is that you have 5 other skills and 3 passive spells in your build with it. And those 'not so different on their own' rune effects suddenly start seeming a lot more significant when you pair them up with the right passives and skills.
The point is not to look at 'oh this ability's rune effects just do <blank>'... the point is to think of it as the witch doctor on the whole and how the runed ability changes your WHOLE playstyle.
So while yes, technically, you are correct that in each case you click on a spot and spiders appear, the difference is not in how you cast them or the very broad, general impact... the difference is in how that effects how you cast your other spells or which other spells you select. It is in that that the true variety of d3 shows up.
Jar of spiders will always be "click somewhere to let loose a horde of spiders." What those spiders do can change - such as leeching life or slowing - but it's the same gameplay.
I think that some people here need to calm down before posting.
People are calm, otherwise I'd have to shut down a ton of posts for flaming. You, on the other hand, are almost crossing the thin line that separates trolling from having a legitimate question - at least that's what the replies in the thread suggest.
I'd kindly suggest you to review your understanding of the term gameplay, as it seems to be the biggest issue here. Apparently you believe gameplay means just the "execution mechanics" (and graphics?) for using a skill, instead of its impact on the actual game.
If a Witch Doctor that has mana-leeching spiders does not play differently (thus, gameplay) from one that has slowing spiders (meaning they have to use their skills at different times/situations), I truly don't know what does.
I mean by his logic we should be "casting" each spell a different way. Because clicking to perform something is way too similar to clicking to perform something else.
I dunno, I think when I first saw the skill calculator, I was kinda "meh" thinking there weren't many skills per class...I guess I didn't realize right away that the runes will literally change how you play. In D2, I was partial to sorceress, and while you can choose your element, and the spells have different effects, your playstyle was generally the same(stay at range, teleport and static field when necessary). When I realized how many different wizards you could make here just by altering the runes on the same six skills I 0.0 'd.
Which is why I think people are baffled at this post, he seems to be arguing the opposite
The OP is right. This skill system is so bland and boring. Definitely nothing close to 90 billion combinations. Honestly, all the classes are boring with no differentiation. You just click all over the screen and stuff dies right? There is no variety at all...
The rest of you need to wise up and realize the crap that blizzard is just crapping out the door right into our laps.
Can't wait for Toontown 2 to come out. Diablo 3's got nothing on it.
One of the more important things regarding the D3 skill system and customization is to avoid thinking about individual skills on their own. While modifying a single skill to do cold damage instead of normal damage may not seem like a large change on its own, consider its usefulness if you have other abilities that do extra damage to cold targets, of even if you have gear that further increases cold damage done.
Taking skills on their own isn't very interesting regardless of rune choice. The customization comes in when you look at pairing skills together. While changing Plague of Toads to be able to paralyze enemies may not seem too exciting or different from the original spell, what if you use that in conjunction with a slow casting ability or a targeted AOE where you benefit greatly from enemeis standing still? Suddenly the paralyze effect becomes the most important part of the skill.
As far as I can tell from Herborist's perspective is that in Diablo 3 you only have 7 different abilities per class. Left and Right mouse buttons and numbers 1-5. By his comparison we have more abilities than D2 because back then we only had Left and Right click
I mean, yeah each skill has 6 different types (if you count the non-rune effect)
To be fair I probably wouldn't count the non-rune spell because there is (as far as I've seen) always a rune that just ups the damage or lowers the cost or something similar without changing the effect itself.
From what I can tell, the runes you can slot in the skill planner are max level runes, i.e., the highest quality. Does that mean that all runes of those colors will always have the listed effects, with the only changing being the numbers?
I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
I agree, advertising runes as creating new skills is misleading - usually it's a variation of the same skill (like adding fire damage, as you mentioned). Even without runes, though, there are still going to be more skills that you can actually use than in D2, if only for the fact that they are all still viable at level 60. Also, don't forget that each character has 12 passive skills in addition to the 22 or so active skills.
I just remembered why I rarely discuss gameplay mechanics with people on the forums.
I could add the ability to leech mana to a couple of skills here and there, and if I didn't tell you, you'd never know the difference. You would keep playing the same way you had played before. That is a gameplay mechanic.
What's the difference between grasp of the dead and zombie dogs? One you cast on large mobs to snare/damage them (gameplay) and another you summon to attack for you, which you might use to help you kite, or just deal damage (gameplay).
What's the difference between any of the rune effects of acid cloud? You choose an area with mobs, activate the skill, and that area takes dot damage.
What's the difference between haunt and locust swarm? One lasts longer, one jumps regardless of death. What are the chances you'll do anything more than "which does more damage? I'll use that one!"?
I'm not going to respond to this thread again, or to these forums. You've all blatantly taken the number of runs and multiplied it by the number of spells and showed me it as if it proves anything. How about they add 7 more types of runes, all of which just add +1 damage to each skill with no other effect? That's even more new skills!
ok your just being a stubborn little brat who wants giant shoulder pads and gobs upon gobs of spell bars all over your screen, obviously this isn't the game for you if u don't want to understand the mechanics of the game. go find something else to play.
essentially what your saying is that all the skills are exactly the same depsite the rune effects and are trolling us with that last comment you said.
using your logic i can easily say life drain and mana drain(removed) from wow were exactly the same thing, no difference, they both drained stuff, who cares. Or that fire bolt and frost bolt are the same. Their both big blobs of damage, theres no difference between the 2, oh one might slow and the other dots? meh same skills
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Went outside today, the graphics were ok. But the gameplay sucked
also besides the fact that this guy is being a complete troll, he seems to be pointing that the mechanics are exactly the same regardless of runes "Point and click" but this is the function of ever skill in every game, point and click, except for auras (buffs and shouts are like auras 2) so although we all answered one part of his question, he s trolling another part that doesn't even matter. idc what he says all the skills require a point and click to a degree <_<
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Went outside today, the graphics were ok. But the gameplay sucked
I love all loot fest kind of game! I will be playing all of them for the next few years. Loot fest games I'm looking forward to: LotR: War in the North,Torchlight 2,Borderlands 2 and of course Diablo 3.
There are some skills that don't have a rune that changes its mechanic totally.
There is at least one skill that doesn't have a rune that keeps it like it started (Hydra)
As for the runes not changing the skills enough, I really can't dissagree with you more.
For example:
I have built a Lightning Wizard 5 or 6 times. Each time its different. And each time I feel like I have built somthing that would play differently from the last. Thats 5 or 6 (and thats just scratching the surface) variations of just one type of wizard. One build had some big spender spells, one build had the spenders but also a rune in one of the Academic spells that would gain Arcane Power quickly. One build used the Charge effect from Cyclone that makes your next accademic spell cast a big cyclone. One coused on Lightning Hydras and ways to keep Monsters grouped up around them, combined with Chain Lightning.
Will there be builds that catch on and become super popular? Of course. But what really has me excited is even those builds, even builds that everyone may (or may not) gravitate towards have options in them. Your building a Barbarian that focuses on Cleave? Do you want the monsters killed to explode or do you want cleave to suck everything in towards you before it hits? Massive play diference.
The only thing as far as customization I am a tad concerned about still are the passives. They don't feel finished quite yet. Bash's tweet saying that there are more changes to come with the skills makes me not worry too much there.
The passives that are in are awesome, but for some of the builds I have made, I havn'nt been able to find a passive that really puncuates it. Like I built a lightning Demon Hunter. It would be nice to have a pssive that increases elemental damage some how.
I think we will see alot more passives added before release however.
wow.... ..... I really don't even know what to say to you....
I am baffled by how you can say that an ability that snares wouldn't be used differently than one that doesn't...
...
Actually, I think I know what your problem is. You're taking these skills in a vacuum. Yes, individually, the summon spider spell doesn't change that much in how you cast it. You're absolutely correct.
But the fact is that you have 5 other skills and 3 passive spells in your build with it. And those 'not so different on their own' rune effects suddenly start seeming a lot more significant when you pair them up with the right passives and skills.
The point is not to look at 'oh this ability's rune effects just do <blank>'... the point is to think of it as the witch doctor on the whole and how the runed ability changes your WHOLE playstyle.
So while yes, technically, you are correct that in each case you click on a spot and spiders appear, the difference is not in how you cast them or the very broad, general impact... the difference is in how that effects how you cast your other spells or which other spells you select. It is in that that the true variety of d3 shows up.
I'd kindly suggest you to review your understanding of the term gameplay, as it seems to be the biggest issue here. Apparently you believe gameplay means just the "execution mechanics" (and graphics?) for using a skill, instead of its impact on the actual game.
If a Witch Doctor that has mana-leeching spiders does not play differently (thus, gameplay) from one that has slowing spiders (meaning they have to use their skills at different times/situations), I truly don't know what does.
Which is why I think people are baffled at this post, he seems to be arguing the opposite
Maybe "Golden Rune: Input the Konami Code to summon a spider version of Chuck Norris to octo-roundhouse your opponents"
The rest of you need to wise up and realize the crap that blizzard is just crapping out the door right into our laps.
Can't wait for Toontown 2 to come out. Diablo 3's got nothing on it.
Taking skills on their own isn't very interesting regardless of rune choice. The customization comes in when you look at pairing skills together. While changing Plague of Toads to be able to paralyze enemies may not seem too exciting or different from the original spell, what if you use that in conjunction with a slow casting ability or a targeted AOE where you benefit greatly from enemeis standing still? Suddenly the paralyze effect becomes the most important part of the skill.
To be fair I probably wouldn't count the non-rune spell because there is (as far as I've seen) always a rune that just ups the damage or lowers the cost or something similar without changing the effect itself.
WHAT IS HAPPENING!
I could add the ability to leech mana to a couple of skills here and there, and if I didn't tell you, you'd never know the difference. You would keep playing the same way you had played before. That is a gameplay mechanic.
What's the difference between grasp of the dead and zombie dogs? One you cast on large mobs to snare/damage them (gameplay) and another you summon to attack for you, which you might use to help you kite, or just deal damage (gameplay).
What's the difference between any of the rune effects of acid cloud? You choose an area with mobs, activate the skill, and that area takes dot damage.
What's the difference between haunt and locust swarm? One lasts longer, one jumps regardless of death. What are the chances you'll do anything more than "which does more damage? I'll use that one!"?
I'm not going to respond to this thread again, or to these forums. You've all blatantly taken the number of runs and multiplied it by the number of spells and showed me it as if it proves anything. How about they add 7 more types of runes, all of which just add +1 damage to each skill with no other effect? That's even more new skills!
essentially what your saying is that all the skills are exactly the same depsite the rune effects and are trolling us with that last comment you said.
using your logic i can easily say life drain and mana drain(removed) from wow were exactly the same thing, no difference, they both drained stuff, who cares. Or that fire bolt and frost bolt are the same. Their both big blobs of damage, theres no difference between the 2, oh one might slow and the other dots? meh same skills
WHAT?! The analog moves your guy around? That's soooooo unoriginal. Gun's shoot? This game is for nubs.
There is at least one skill that doesn't have a rune that keeps it like it started (Hydra)
As for the runes not changing the skills enough, I really can't dissagree with you more.
For example:
I have built a Lightning Wizard 5 or 6 times. Each time its different. And each time I feel like I have built somthing that would play differently from the last. Thats 5 or 6 (and thats just scratching the surface) variations of just one type of wizard. One build had some big spender spells, one build had the spenders but also a rune in one of the Academic spells that would gain Arcane Power quickly. One build used the Charge effect from Cyclone that makes your next accademic spell cast a big cyclone. One coused on Lightning Hydras and ways to keep Monsters grouped up around them, combined with Chain Lightning.
Will there be builds that catch on and become super popular? Of course. But what really has me excited is even those builds, even builds that everyone may (or may not) gravitate towards have options in them. Your building a Barbarian that focuses on Cleave? Do you want the monsters killed to explode or do you want cleave to suck everything in towards you before it hits? Massive play diference.
The only thing as far as customization I am a tad concerned about still are the passives. They don't feel finished quite yet. Bash's tweet saying that there are more changes to come with the skills makes me not worry too much there.
The passives that are in are awesome, but for some of the builds I have made, I havn'nt been able to find a passive that really puncuates it. Like I built a lightning Demon Hunter. It would be nice to have a pssive that increases elemental damage some how.
I think we will see alot more passives added before release however.
Should've closed it sooner, would've saved us all from such a waste of time.