From what I can tell, the runes you can slot in the skill planner are max level runes, i.e., the highest quality. Does that mean that all runes of those colors will always have the listed effects, with the only changing being the numbers?
I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders.
So there's not a lot of skill variety in the game, because all of the skills involve me pressing a button and something happening on the game? I mean, people were worried that runes would be mandatory and the base skills would be worthless, that's why 2-3 runes always keep it very similar to the base skill (albeit significantly changing its function/role at times)
Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
To me it does, since the gameplay in an action rpg is totally based on what you can or cannot do. One cannot recover life from casting the spells, the other can.
There are like ninety billion combinations and you're complaining there's not enough variety of skills?
There are more skills than Diablo 2 per character by far and at least as many as I've seen any other games coming out. If you make TOO many skills, you wind up with them just being almost exactly the same as another skill, which clearly is already happening a little bit even here. They have hundreds of different skills between the characters, if you're wanting more, there's no number that would make you happy.
Personally, I think there are too many skills. Yup. Too many skills. They should do something about all those dratted skills.
Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
Yes. Ok, you mechanically go through the same clicking motions in each case, and the animations are similar. But play-wise... a character with a lots of life-leech skills is going to play differently and react to different scenarios differently than a character who traded that life leech for excess damage.
Go look at the Barbarian tree in D2. A whole page of passives, and a page of shouts... there are only a few active skills you can make a build around. D3 beats D2 by a mile in that category.
I think any more skills added to D3 would just lead to redundancy.
From what I can tell, the runes you can slot in the skill planner are max level runes, i.e., the highest quality. Does that mean that all runes of those colors will always have the listed effects, with the only changing being the numbers?
I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
No one said its 5 new skills per rune effect.
just different looking spiders?
- Medusa Spiders: Summon paralyzing spiders that have a 60% chance to slow enemies movement by 60% with every attack.
- Blazing Spiders: Summon fire spiders that deal 15 - 44 Fire damage.
- Widowmakers: Summon widowmaker spiders that leech 70% of the damage they deal as Mana for you.
- Spider Queen: Summon a mother spider that births spiderlings dealing 64 - 71 Poison damage per second to enemies in the area. Lasts 22 seconds.
You may only have one mother spider summoned at a time.
- Leaping Spiders: Summon jumping spiders that leap up to 25 yards to reach their target and attack for 13 - 40 physical damage.
How is that "All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders"?
I asked a question, and it seems like no one answered. Or at least some people don't know what they're talking about.
How are there "ninety billion combinations" when it's actually just five different effects per skill. And it's not even new skills...
Jar of spiders will always be "click somewhere to let loose a horde of spiders." What those spiders do can change - such as leeching life or slowing - but it's the same gameplay.
I think that some people here need to calm down before posting.
Each rune changes the skill function, therefore has different uses for everyone. The gameplay does change. The sheer number of different viable combinations of skills you can have makes it vastly superior to the d2 system.
Even though the core concept of the skill might not change, the execution and uses do vary greatly depending on the rune. Take Corpse Spiders. Depending on the rune it becomes a spell that:
-Slows the target(s).
-Deals more damage.
-Leeches and regenerates your mana.
-Summons a large spider that creates smaller ones for a set duration.
-Creates highly mobile spiders that will (presumably) get to more enemies faster.
At least 3 of those have a dramatically different use than the base spell. I'd say you could expect 1-2 runes per ability just flat out making it better, but the other runes all affect when and how you use the spell. The flavor may not change massively, but it's just the flavor. It's not the gameplay.
If people seem worked up, it's because we're accustomed to having this conversation (for the 1000th time) with people who've already made up their minds and aren't really looking for a discussion. We'll probably just end up agreeing to disagree.
White = you spit a cloud instead of one being dropped
Red = a corpse explodes instead of a head spitting things up
Yellow = increase pool duration
Blue = acid rain instead of a single stream
Black = irradiates + creates slimes
All I see is black creating truly new effects with the slime, and even then it's still basically click an area -> that area is now poisoned/irradiated and deals damage to things standing on it. The runes don't add any new gameplay. It's just different animations, but effectively still a pool of acid in every instance.
Each rune changes the skill function, therefore has different uses for everyone. The gameplay does change. The sheer number of different viable combinations of skills you can have makes it vastly superior to the d2 system.
The viability of skills comes from the new skill-point-less system, not from runes.
Take Corpse Spiders. Depending on the rune it becomes a spell that:
-Slows the target(s).
-Deals more damage.
-Leeches and regenerates your mana.
-Summons a large spider that creates smaller ones for a set duration.
-Creates highly mobile spiders that will (presumably) get to more enemies faster.
At least 3 of those have a dramatically different use than the base spell.
Slowing the targets changes nothing about how you use the spell. Neither does dealing more damage. Leeching mana might make you want to cast it more often, but it doesn't change how you use it, either. The large spider one (mother queen whatever) doesn't change anything either - you still aim it an area and spiders erupt. It's not new gameplay just because it's a queen spider instead of a jar now.
You're still clicking to aim, then a bunch of spiders comes out and kill things. How you use it doesn't change. Sure, it gets stronger and better at specific tasks, but that won't make you use it in a different fashion. You've changed nothing from a gameplay aspect.
From what I can tell, the runes you can slot in the skill planner are max level runes, i.e., the highest quality. Does that mean that all runes of those colors will always have the listed effects, with the only changing being the numbers?
I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
This is the "no beta syndrome", you think too much about gameplay when you cant actually play it... that happens
as someone who has been with this franchise since the beginning, and someone who has been severely disappointed with what i had seen thus far. I STILL cannot really agree with you. the runes TOTALLY change what the skill is used for. And it will drastically change the playstyle of the person playing the character.
I plan a barb for my first character. I plan the fury builder attack i base my build on as frenzy which is a stacking buff for attack speed. I can modify it in such a way.
White = Killing a monster heals me for 25% of my life
Red = Each buff increases my damage by 25% ( that stacks 5 times... +125% Raw Damage )
Gold = Adds a high chance to stun ( its a spammable skill so if im stunning with every other attack thats game changing)
Blue = Adds a projectile that pieces and does weapon damage in the whole line
Black = Speed buff.
So.. i have one that give me a huge heal on death, one that does a huge damage boost, one that stuns, one that makes it ranged... and one that makes me run fast.
How are those remotely the same? The very reason i use the skill might even change. I could use it as my main attack and stack ways to + damage or if i wanted black i can use it just as a quick hit to run fast... the game is VERY vary, im very excited now that i can see the rune system
White = you spit a cloud instead of one being dropped
Red = a corpse explodes instead of a head spitting things up
Yellow = increase pool duration
Blue = acid rain instead of a single stream
Black = irradiates + creates slimes
All I see is black creating truly new effects with the slime, and even then it's still basically click an area -> that area is now poisoned/irradiated and deals damage to things standing on it. The runes don't add any new gameplay. It's just different animations, but effectively still a pool of acid in every instance.
Each rune changes the skill function, therefore has different uses for everyone. The gameplay does change. The sheer number of different viable combinations of skills you can have makes it vastly superior to the d2 system.
The viability of skills comes from the new skill-point-less system, not from runes.
Take Corpse Spiders. Depending on the rune it becomes a spell that:
-Slows the target(s).
-Deals more damage.
-Leeches and regenerates your mana.
-Summons a large spider that creates smaller ones for a set duration.
-Creates highly mobile spiders that will (presumably) get to more enemies faster.
At least 3 of those have a dramatically different use than the base spell.
Slowing the targets changes nothing about how you use the spell. Neither does dealing more damage. Leeching mana might make you want to cast it more often, but it doesn't change how you use it, either. The large spider one (mother queen whatever) doesn't change anything either - you still aim it an area and spiders erupt. It's not new gameplay just because it's a queen spider instead of a jar now.
You're still clicking to aim, then a bunch of spiders comes out and kill things. How you use it doesn't change. Sure, it gets stronger and better at specific tasks, but that won't make you use it in a different fashion. You've changed nothing from a gameplay aspect.
You are choosing one specific spell that doesnt change the mechanics that greatly..
as someone who has been with this franchise since the beginning, and someone who has been severely disappointed with what i had seen thus far. I STILL cannot really agree with you. the runes TOTALLY change what the skill is used for. And it will drastically change the playstyle of the person playing the character.
I plan a barb for my first character. I plan the fury builder attack i base my build on as frenzy which is a stacking buff for attack speed. I can modify it in such a way.
White = Killing a monster heals me for 25% of my life
Red = Each buff increases my damage by 25% ( that stacks 5 times... +125% Raw Damage )
Gold = Adds a high chance to stun ( its a spammable skill so if im stunning with every other attack thats game changing)
Blue = Adds a projectile that pieces and does weapon damage in the whole line
Black = Speed buff.
So.. i have one that give me a huge heal on death, one that does a huge damage boost, one that stuns, one that makes it ranged... and one that makes me run fast.
How are those remotely the same? The very reason i use the skill might even change. I could use it as my main attack and stack ways to + damage or if i wanted black i can use it just as a quick hit to run fast... the game is VERY vary, im very excited now that i can see the rune system
You're taking a specific complaint and taking it to the extreme. You need to stop doing that right now, and I won't respond to any of your claims or arguments because they're ignoring everything I've said. Don't generalize my viewpoints to make them more potable.
For your benefit, I will restate in specifics: the witch doctor's rune effects are largely disappointing, especially when compared to the monk. Don't tell me that barbarian ones are good, we're not discussing barbarian rune effects.
And don't tell me I'm only focusing on one spell. You chose one spell for your argument, hypocrite.
as someone who has been with this franchise since the beginning, and someone who has been severely disappointed with what i had seen thus far. I STILL cannot really agree with you. the runes TOTALLY change what the skill is used for. And it will drastically change the playstyle of the person playing the character.
I plan a barb for my first character. I plan the fury builder attack i base my build on as frenzy which is a stacking buff for attack speed. I can modify it in such a way.
White = Killing a monster heals me for 25% of my life
Red = Each buff increases my damage by 25% ( that stacks 5 times... +125% Raw Damage )
Gold = Adds a high chance to stun ( its a spammable skill so if im stunning with every other attack thats game changing)
Blue = Adds a projectile that pieces and does weapon damage in the whole line
Black = Speed buff.
So.. i have one that give me a huge heal on death, one that does a huge damage boost, one that stuns, one that makes it ranged... and one that makes me run fast.
How are those remotely the same? The very reason i use the skill might even change. I could use it as my main attack and stack ways to + damage or if i wanted black i can use it just as a quick hit to run fast... the game is VERY vary, im very excited now that i can see the rune system
You're taking a specific complaint and taking it to the extreme. You need to stop doing that right now, and I won't respond to any of your claims or arguments because they're ignoring everything I've said. Don't generalize my viewpoints to make them more potable.
For your benefit, I will restate in specifics: the witch doctor's rune effects are largely disappointing, especially when compared to the monk. Don't tell me that barbarian ones are good, we're not discussing barbarian rune effects.
And don't tell me I'm only focusing on one spell. You chose one spell for your argument, hypocrite.
Uh.. and i quote " I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life? "
The entire reason the rune system is in place is to create different skill combos that you can use...one rune might add slow, so that another runed skill which has reduced speed, but higher damage can hit well. These runes might not do much more than change the skills look on the outside, but when used together drastically change how you would play your character compared to another character, who might use a completely different set of runes, or even a completely different set of skills. You are arguing witch doctor, how can you not see the TONS of different playstyles made possible by different runes?
I think the reason you aren't getting the answers you want out of people is it looks like to us you are unable to see past the outer obviousness of each skill and into the many possible play combinations they open up. If you can't see the nearly hundreds of playstyles you've just been given, you can't expect others to agree with your lack of creativity or ingenuity.
I think the reason you aren't getting the answers you want out of people is it looks like to us you are unable to see past the outer obviousness of each skill and into the many possible play combinations they open up. If you can't see the nearly hundreds of playstyles you've just been given, you can't expect others to agree with your lack of creativity or ingenuity.
I think the more accurate explanation would be he is slow in the head...
As he suggests by jumping on people for disagreeing with him, with nonsensical remarks
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I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life?
So there's not a lot of skill variety in the game, because all of the skills involve me pressing a button and something happening on the game? I mean, people were worried that runes would be mandatory and the base skills would be worthless, that's why 2-3 runes always keep it very similar to the base skill (albeit significantly changing its function/role at times)
To me it does, since the gameplay in an action rpg is totally based on what you can or cannot do. One cannot recover life from casting the spells, the other can.
There are more skills than Diablo 2 per character by far and at least as many as I've seen any other games coming out. If you make TOO many skills, you wind up with them just being almost exactly the same as another skill, which clearly is already happening a little bit even here. They have hundreds of different skills between the characters, if you're wanting more, there's no number that would make you happy.
Personally, I think there are too many skills. Yup. Too many skills. They should do something about all those dratted skills.
Yes. Ok, you mechanically go through the same clicking motions in each case, and the animations are similar. But play-wise... a character with a lots of life-leech skills is going to play differently and react to different scenarios differently than a character who traded that life leech for excess damage.
Go look at the Barbarian tree in D2. A whole page of passives, and a page of shouts... there are only a few active skills you can make a build around. D3 beats D2 by a mile in that category.
I think any more skills added to D3 would just lead to redundancy.
No one said its 5 new skills per rune effect.
just different looking spiders?
- Medusa Spiders: Summon paralyzing spiders that have a 60% chance to slow enemies movement by 60% with every attack.
- Blazing Spiders: Summon fire spiders that deal 15 - 44 Fire damage.
- Widowmakers: Summon widowmaker spiders that leech 70% of the damage they deal as Mana for you.
- Spider Queen: Summon a mother spider that births spiderlings dealing 64 - 71 Poison damage per second to enemies in the area. Lasts 22 seconds.
You may only have one mother spider summoned at a time.
- Leaping Spiders: Summon jumping spiders that leap up to 25 yards to reach their target and attack for 13 - 40 physical damage.
How is that "All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders"?
How are there "ninety billion combinations" when it's actually just five different effects per skill. And it's not even new skills...
Jar of spiders will always be "click somewhere to let loose a horde of spiders." What those spiders do can change - such as leeching life or slowing - but it's the same gameplay.
I think that some people here need to calm down before posting.
-Slows the target(s).
-Deals more damage.
-Leeches and regenerates your mana.
-Summons a large spider that creates smaller ones for a set duration.
-Creates highly mobile spiders that will (presumably) get to more enemies faster.
At least 3 of those have a dramatically different use than the base spell. I'd say you could expect 1-2 runes per ability just flat out making it better, but the other runes all affect when and how you use the spell. The flavor may not change massively, but it's just the flavor. It's not the gameplay.
If people seem worked up, it's because we're accustomed to having this conversation (for the 1000th time) with people who've already made up their minds and aren't really looking for a discussion. We'll probably just end up agreeing to disagree.
White = you spit a cloud instead of one being dropped
Red = a corpse explodes instead of a head spitting things up
Yellow = increase pool duration
Blue = acid rain instead of a single stream
Black = irradiates + creates slimes
All I see is black creating truly new effects with the slime, and even then it's still basically click an area -> that area is now poisoned/irradiated and deals damage to things standing on it. The runes don't add any new gameplay. It's just different animations, but effectively still a pool of acid in every instance.
The viability of skills comes from the new skill-point-less system, not from runes.
Slowing the targets changes nothing about how you use the spell. Neither does dealing more damage. Leeching mana might make you want to cast it more often, but it doesn't change how you use it, either. The large spider one (mother queen whatever) doesn't change anything either - you still aim it an area and spiders erupt. It's not new gameplay just because it's a queen spider instead of a jar now.
You're still clicking to aim, then a bunch of spiders comes out and kill things. How you use it doesn't change. Sure, it gets stronger and better at specific tasks, but that won't make you use it in a different fashion. You've changed nothing from a gameplay aspect.
as someone who has been with this franchise since the beginning, and someone who has been severely disappointed with what i had seen thus far. I STILL cannot really agree with you. the runes TOTALLY change what the skill is used for. And it will drastically change the playstyle of the person playing the character.
I plan a barb for my first character. I plan the fury builder attack i base my build on as frenzy which is a stacking buff for attack speed. I can modify it in such a way.
White = Killing a monster heals me for 25% of my life
Red = Each buff increases my damage by 25% ( that stacks 5 times... +125% Raw Damage )
Gold = Adds a high chance to stun ( its a spammable skill so if im stunning with every other attack thats game changing)
Blue = Adds a projectile that pieces and does weapon damage in the whole line
Black = Speed buff.
So.. i have one that give me a huge heal on death, one that does a huge damage boost, one that stuns, one that makes it ranged... and one that makes me run fast.
How are those remotely the same? The very reason i use the skill might even change. I could use it as my main attack and stack ways to + damage or if i wanted black i can use it just as a quick hit to run fast... the game is VERY vary, im very excited now that i can see the rune system
You are choosing one specific spell that doesnt change the mechanics that greatly..
You're taking a specific complaint and taking it to the extreme. You need to stop doing that right now, and I won't respond to any of your claims or arguments because they're ignoring everything I've said. Don't generalize my viewpoints to make them more potable.
For your benefit, I will restate in specifics: the witch doctor's rune effects are largely disappointing, especially when compared to the monk. Don't tell me that barbarian ones are good, we're not discussing barbarian rune effects.
And don't tell me I'm only focusing on one spell. You chose one spell for your argument, hypocrite.
Uh.. and i quote " I feel like there aren't enough skills in D3. The runes make the skills more interesting, but it is most definitely NOT 5x new skills per rune effect. All of the spider jar effects are just different looking spiders, but using them is the same: you choose a location, throw a jar, and out come spiders. Does it really make things more interesting if the spiders are fire imbued or leech life? "
The entire reason the rune system is in place is to create different skill combos that you can use...one rune might add slow, so that another runed skill which has reduced speed, but higher damage can hit well. These runes might not do much more than change the skills look on the outside, but when used together drastically change how you would play your character compared to another character, who might use a completely different set of runes, or even a completely different set of skills. You are arguing witch doctor, how can you not see the TONS of different playstyles made possible by different runes?
I think the reason you aren't getting the answers you want out of people is it looks like to us you are unable to see past the outer obviousness of each skill and into the many possible play combinations they open up. If you can't see the nearly hundreds of playstyles you've just been given, you can't expect others to agree with your lack of creativity or ingenuity.
As he suggests by jumping on people for disagreeing with him, with nonsensical remarks