I had some chatting last night with a friend regarding speed low grifts group setup and gear setup. He was claiming that soj dh speed up xp per hour at enough rate to compensate lack of xp gear he would otherwise wear.
Today i have made some calculations regarding xp gain from few different setups
xp leecher = "support builds" zdps crusader/monk/wd
dh with xp gear = hellfire ring + arcane crown with red gem
full dps char
formula used is xp gained in run + xp gained in run * xp multiplier from gear ( ie xp gained in run * 0.5 from cain set) * group bonus ( 1.3)
xp sample used is 500k
on 500k xp gained xp leecher gets 2.112.500 xp , xp dh gets 1.462.500 xp, and dps dh or some other pure dps class without xp gear gets 650k.
xp dh gets 1.44 times less xp than xp leecher and dps char gets 3.25 times less xp than xp leecher
Question is why would anyone bother with this ?
My main class is dh , i mostly play with it. Most people demand that dh goes full dps, it goes as far as that they claim everyone gets more xp if dh is full dps witch includes dh himself. Dh wearing xp gear hardly finds a group, even within his friends they will rather choose to play with random dps dh than his xp dh friend if they r given choice. This destroys fun within game. This gives unfair advantage to people that xploit this in both nonseason and season. Formula is simple gain paragon advantage that transfers to insane dps gains later. Take few weeks to collect gear for desired class and make it to the leaderboards.
I hope my post will encourage discussion regarding this
so there are two issues 1. forcing DH to wear fulll dps gear 2. unfair advantage
edit: gem of ease is not taken into calculation , it makes everything even worse
Yeah it really sucks that the people actually doing dmg get the worst xp. It sucks even more that we're forced into GR's with specific group comps to farm. They need to nerf multiplicative xp in GR's and buff T6 xp.
"Leech" they call it. My palm monk did 35-42 all season 2 and ended up carrying many of the groups, even if i was wearing cains/ruby/hellfire. The slight damage and cooldown increase from other gear wouldnt have even mattered up until the 45ish point (which i straight out didnt even attempt), since my palm is one shotting most mobs anyways. Experience gear is fine. If the group goes slowly maybe you should look at your own characters.
My opinion is they should add more torments with better xp gain, and drops to match the 35-40 speed farm meta, so that i dont hate every second of bounties and regular rifts. And as an aside, if you are doing 50+ GRs, your getting as much xp as the speedfarmers so it doesnt even matter
It's true that it is unbalanced the way that monks and crusaders can wear more xp gear than barbs and DH's but that doesn't make them leachers, it just means they are lucky. In reality the supports increase everyone's xp/hour even if they do get the lions share and they work just as hard as the dps classes in most cases. Best thing to do is play both sides and take turns so that everyone can share in the xp riches but there is no need to call people "leachers" just because they can wear more bonus xp gear.
I've played both EP pull monk and M6 DH during season 2, so I can see how there's some jealousy about who can squeeze how much XP gear into their loadouts, I know I've wanted to play the monk more in the end cuz it gained paragon so much faster eventho I enjoyed playing the DH more gameplay-wise.
But the real problem I see here is:
the multiplicative thing with the XP sets/Rubies/Leorics Crowns/HF Ring makes you wanna equip all this stuff so badly you end up "gimping" your character. Yea sure for GR35+ quick runs its not much of a differnce in clear speed, but in my opinion, it brings back the whole MagicFind gear dilemma of vanilla D3. You just wanna get that bonus to XP( or MF, back then) onto as much item slots as possible. As a monk, ending up running some super boring crafted Sets like Cain and Born instead of the Crudest Boots to get a 2nd Air ally that would help you a lot with resource management, or that 4-piece Inna's for 4 free manta buffs. Gem of Ease instead of a 2nd Emerald in your offhand, Hellfire Ring, Leorics Crown instead of stuff with actual unique powers - But no! Cant pass up on that extra XP!!
XP sets for zDPS and T6 / medium GRifts are fine, but they should be somewhat toned down compared to how they are now
DH does more damage than my other classes. Please fix it Blizzard..... we want a homogenized game where everything is equal and the same with different names. It's just "fair".
"Leech" they call it. My palm monk did 35-42 all season 2 and ended up carrying many of the groups, even if i was wearing cains/ruby/hellfire. The slight damage and cooldown increase from other gear wouldnt have even mattered up until the 45ish point (which i straight out didnt even attempt), since my palm is one shotting most mobs anyways. Experience gear is fine. If the group goes slowly maybe you should look at your own characters.
My opinion is they should add more torments with better xp gain, and drops to match the 35-40 speed farm meta, so that i dont hate every second of bounties and regular rifts. And as an aside, if you are doing 50+ GRs, your getting as much xp as the speedfarmers so it doesnt even matter
Free from opinion, what you just said was just trash.
I can tell a difference when I take off just 1 item of 8 Cdr. It's extremely noticeable to any decent monk how much your performance suffers from taking out a Diamond. It is just that much longer waiting on dashing strike or getting into using cain's set with a total of 25cdr + 10 cdr + 10 rcr gone (captains) you'll have spirit issues that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I ran this entire exp week except perhaps one or two occassions* where the group was extremely OP and they were fine with Rubies as they were wearing them themselves. I play almost as much as anyone <--- and I am only a PG 800 because I dont exp and I refuse to play where I perform less than optimal.
ALL of that aside, you are not one shotting anything with your palm, or carrying anyone. Your palm doesn't do initial damage so someone obviously (a Barb probably) came in to blow them up. You're the reason why people are starting to hate my favorite class.
How many people just started playing monk acting like they would know how to mitigate the problems of having less cdr. What DNA does is not a guide for everyone else, they have extremely talented and dedicated players (who may cut corners at times) but why is it all of a sudden meta if they are doing it..
Then, also, Paragon is ruining Leaderboards almost as much as someone having 77 Gems <-- how DRaGOn >?? I assume thats legit pffft
-Darth1885
Experience was not an important issue in Diablo pre 2.2 and did not dictate the tier of group that you were able to run in.. Two-Three days in I see people calling for 500 + only.. 500+ only? So if I was just 350 but gearing instead of exping and can do higher grifts solo it's not wanted. Seasons becomes who can do what the fastest, nothing is about quality anymore. This game was supposed to be about who can do the hardest thing not who could do the easiest thing the fastest.
ALL of that aside, you are not one shotting anything with your palm, or carrying anyone. Your palm doesn't do initial damage so someone obviously (a Barb probably) came in to blow them up. You're the reason why people are starting to hate my favorite class.
No damage from Sunwuko initially or every palm after? You words of wisdom are awe inspiring sir....Palm is definitely a huge carry skill, though carry may be a poor choice of words. Call it what you want, the EP is doing most of the damage in 35 gr's until RG. 77 gems? 1% runs all day? I mean really.... stop talking.
Only way to really fix this, not saying it needs to be fixed however, would be to have a group XP formula. What they could implement is that all XP boosts between the group are added together and then divided by the # of players in the group.
For instance, if we had a combination of +280% XP boost, and 4 players in the group, each player would get +70% XP boost. Doing something like this could open up new avenues of game play where 1-3 DPS and 1-3 Tanks/Support/Leechers group to benefit everyone as a whole.
I had some chatting last night with a friend regarding speed low grifts group setup and gear setup. He was claiming that soj dh speed up xp per hour at enough rate to compensate lack of xp gear he would otherwise wear.
Today i have made some calculations regarding xp gain from few different setups
xp leecher = "support builds" zdps crusader/monk/wd
dh with xp gear = hellfire ring + arcane crown with red gem
full dps char
formula used is xp gained in run + xp gained in run * xp multiplier from gear ( ie xp gained in run * 0.5 from cain set) * group bonus ( 1.3)
xp sample used is 500k
on 500k xp gained xp leecher gets 2.112.500 xp , xp dh gets 1.462.500 xp, and dps dh or some other pure dps class without xp gear gets 650k.
xp dh gets 1.44 times less xp than xp leecher and dps char gets 3.25 times less xp than xp leecher
Question is why would anyone bother with this ?
My main class is dh , i mostly play with it. Most people demand that dh goes full dps, it goes as far as that they claim everyone gets more xp if dh is full dps witch includes dh himself. Dh wearing xp gear hardly finds a group, even within his friends they will rather choose to play with random dps dh than his xp dh friend if they r given choice. This destroys fun within game. This gives unfair advantage to people that xploit this in both nonseason and season. Formula is simple gain paragon advantage that transfers to insane dps gains later. Take few weeks to collect gear for desired class and make it to the leaderboards.
I hope my post will encourage discussion regarding this
so there are two issues 1. forcing DH to wear fulll dps gear 2. unfair advantage
edit: gem of ease is not taken into calculation , it makes everything even worse
Yeah it really sucks that the people actually doing dmg get the worst xp. It sucks even more that we're forced into GR's with specific group comps to farm. They need to nerf multiplicative xp in GR's and buff T6 xp.
"Leech" they call it. My palm monk did 35-42 all season 2 and ended up carrying many of the groups, even if i was wearing cains/ruby/hellfire. The slight damage and cooldown increase from other gear wouldnt have even mattered up until the 45ish point (which i straight out didnt even attempt), since my palm is one shotting most mobs anyways. Experience gear is fine. If the group goes slowly maybe you should look at your own characters.
My opinion is they should add more torments with better xp gain, and drops to match the 35-40 speed farm meta, so that i dont hate every second of bounties and regular rifts. And as an aside, if you are doing 50+ GRs, your getting as much xp as the speedfarmers so it doesnt even matter
It's true that it is unbalanced the way that monks and crusaders can wear more xp gear than barbs and DH's but that doesn't make them leachers, it just means they are lucky. In reality the supports increase everyone's xp/hour even if they do get the lions share and they work just as hard as the dps classes in most cases. Best thing to do is play both sides and take turns so that everyone can share in the xp riches but there is no need to call people "leachers" just because they can wear more bonus xp gear.
I've played both EP pull monk and M6 DH during season 2, so I can see how there's some jealousy about who can squeeze how much XP gear into their loadouts, I know I've wanted to play the monk more in the end cuz it gained paragon so much faster eventho I enjoyed playing the DH more gameplay-wise.
But the real problem I see here is:
the multiplicative thing with the XP sets/Rubies/Leorics Crowns/HF Ring makes you wanna equip all this stuff so badly you end up "gimping" your character. Yea sure for GR35+ quick runs its not much of a differnce in clear speed, but in my opinion, it brings back the whole MagicFind gear dilemma of vanilla D3. You just wanna get that bonus to XP( or MF, back then) onto as much item slots as possible. As a monk, ending up running some super boring crafted Sets like Cain and Born instead of the Crudest Boots to get a 2nd Air ally that would help you a lot with resource management, or that 4-piece Inna's for 4 free manta buffs. Gem of Ease instead of a 2nd Emerald in your offhand, Hellfire Ring, Leorics Crown instead of stuff with actual unique powers - But no! Cant pass up on that extra XP!!
XP sets for zDPS and T6 / medium GRifts are fine, but they should be somewhat toned down compared to how they are now
DH does more damage than my other classes. Please fix it Blizzard..... we want a homogenized game where everything is equal and the same with different names. It's just "fair".
You don't need support classes to speedfarm lower GR's.
Free from opinion, what you just said was just trash.
I can tell a difference when I take off just 1 item of 8 Cdr. It's extremely noticeable to any decent monk how much your performance suffers from taking out a Diamond. It is just that much longer waiting on dashing strike or getting into using cain's set with a total of 25cdr + 10 cdr + 10 rcr gone (captains) you'll have spirit issues that wouldn't have been there otherwise. I ran this entire exp week except perhaps one or two occassions* where the group was extremely OP and they were fine with Rubies as they were wearing them themselves. I play almost as much as anyone <--- and I am only a PG 800 because I dont exp and I refuse to play where I perform less than optimal.
ALL of that aside, you are not one shotting anything with your palm, or carrying anyone. Your palm doesn't do initial damage so someone obviously (a Barb probably) came in to blow them up. You're the reason why people are starting to hate my favorite class.
How many people just started playing monk acting like they would know how to mitigate the problems of having less cdr. What DNA does is not a guide for everyone else, they have extremely talented and dedicated players (who may cut corners at times) but why is it all of a sudden meta if they are doing it..
Then, also, Paragon is ruining Leaderboards almost as much as someone having 77 Gems <-- how DRaGOn >?? I assume thats legit pffft
-Darth1885
Experience was not an important issue in Diablo pre 2.2 and did not dictate the tier of group that you were able to run in.. Two-Three days in I see people calling for 500 + only.. 500+ only? So if I was just 350 but gearing instead of exping and can do higher grifts solo it's not wanted. Seasons becomes who can do what the fastest, nothing is about quality anymore. This game was supposed to be about who can do the hardest thing not who could do the easiest thing the fastest.
up to 45 in 4man one single barb can do it all till the rift guardian in a vry fast time
the other 3 are just taking a walk
the groups that take support roles are just stupid bcs theres no support to do
better go dps to do it faster
No damage from Sunwuko initially or every palm after? You words of wisdom are awe inspiring sir....Palm is definitely a huge carry skill, though carry may be a poor choice of words. Call it what you want, the EP is doing most of the damage in 35 gr's until RG. 77 gems? 1% runs all day? I mean really.... stop talking.
Only way to really fix this, not saying it needs to be fixed however, would be to have a group XP formula. What they could implement is that all XP boosts between the group are added together and then divided by the # of players in the group.
For instance, if we had a combination of +280% XP boost, and 4 players in the group, each player would get +70% XP boost. Doing something like this could open up new avenues of game play where 1-3 DPS and 1-3 Tanks/Support/Leechers group to benefit everyone as a whole.
exactly, thats how magic find works