I don't understand the rage people are expressing on these forums and the official forums about Blizzard "catering to casuals" or "dumbing the game down".
In fact, the accusation that they are "dumbing the game down" is a little funny. Nobody has played it in its entirety besides employees, so nobody really knows how dynamic the situations in say "Hell" and "Inferno" mode are going to be. Is it really lowering the intelligence of the game if they are giving people access to more variety and the ability to change their character without jumping through any flaming hoops or being severely inconvenienced by having to re-level a brand new character?
Or is the "dumbing down" coming from the fact that they are including an entirely optional tutorial mode for people that might not have the kind of knowledge and expertise that comes from many hours played, the kind of in-game experience that none of those complaining possess.
I feel like the earlier parts of the game are of course catered toward casual players. Tutorials, simplified tooltips, easier encounters, easy choices.. These are all things common in early levels of many games. If you want to feel like Billy Badas you should be playing in Inferno or Hardcore mode with the rest of the big kids anyway.
Griping about lack of character uniqueness? Doesn't that come from gear choices and achievements in-game? There is going to be SO MUCH VARIATION IN GEAR. I don't think people understand that random affix means random, and the number of possible outcomes is going to be huge. So yes, you can invest gold or real money (softcore) for gear, but it's the choices you make about what stats you are using that will set the *meh* players apart from the actually knowledgeable and skilled players.
Epic battlechest of epicness with +# to critical strike and attack speed is literally miles away from +# to gold radius and dodge, especially with the possiblities of "perfect" items. Random gear is random, the bad players will flaunt the shiny loot while the great players will be making compromises and wearing items that benefit their character and strategy.
Yes you now have access to all the different types of abilities in the game at any time (level dependent) without having to grind out items to unlock your characters skills. Some scream "dumbing down" I see it as a streamlining and perfecting a system. Now instead of relying on luck or money to determine a skill set, you can look at an encounter and make decisions about what skills and runes to use for a particular problem. Money and chance aren't what is going to decide who succeeds in the hardest of hard difficulties, but intelligent choices and knowledge of your character and the game encounters you are about to face.
It's not your "build" that will make you unique, but your ability to wield your character as a whole. The players that want desperately to be stuck with only 6 available skills are, in my mind, the simple players that won't be able to adapt to the challenges they face and want for a "one-skillset-fits-all" approach.
Granted, you'll probably be able to get away with that thought process throughout most of the game, but I can guarantee that the ones taking the most epic of titles, gear, vanity items, achievements, bling, will be the ones that can adapt and use every tool at their disposal while making the right choices with the gear that they use and.
I don't want to say that I can already determine who will be playing with me in Inferno and Hardcore Inferno, because maybe some of you will surprise me, but the difference between good players and bad players will be evident once this game ships. I think that the bad players are going to be too busy worrying about inconsequential facets of the game to get far. The good players will be unique because we get to play in the hardest playgrounds.
Just like there are players who like the voodoo aesthetic of the Witch Doctor, but don't like some of his creature-themed spells like Plague of Toads (it may seem inexplicable to some people), so too are there players who feel that a character should be defined by her or his skills more than what items that character is wearing. If skills are as nebulous as they are now, then there's no real character.
You don't have to understand if you don't - you only need to know that there are people who do feel that way.
I'm one of those guys who do like a DEGREE of commitment to a build (not total permanence), but I like commitments to builds specifically because they come with unique strengths and weaknesses. It's cool to be able to have an actual character instead of going: "well, I'm up against some ice-resistant badguys, time to swap out some skills" all the time. You can be sure that I'll be taking advantage of the current system just because it's there (in D2, boss runs aren't the most fun way to play the game, but everyone still did it), but I wish that Blizzard didn't make it QUITE that easy.
I'm one of those guys who do like a DEGREE of commitment to a build (not total permanence), but I like commitments to builds specifically because they come with unique strengths and weaknesses. It's cool to be able to have an actual character instead of going: "well, I'm up against some ice-resistant badguys, time to swap out some skills" all the time.
This is exactly my feeling as well. I miss having some sort of commitment to your build and while it doesn't have to be permanent I think there should be at least a gold sink involved in adjusting your skill/rune selection. That said, I do think there is alot of arbituary raging against Blizzard against the streamlining of game systems. Constructive critism is helpful but just saying Blizzard sucks because they changed things from how I wanted maybe doesn't help so much. I think in general people like the idea of having a uniqueness to their character. Itemization isn't in a true sense making your character unique since the items you equip weren't active choices of customization but more of a suggested choice in asking if this item better than the previous one I have for that equipment slot. In Diablo 2 I had an appreciation for some of the more unique builds as it was a commitment of time/gear and showed a desire to be different from the million+ hammerdins etc. I'm fine if people think the new system is better but it's not how I would choose to design the rune system if I was in charge. Maybe that's for the better or maybe not. To each his own.
I think something else to keep in mind is that part of your "individuality" or whatever it is that so many people are seeking will be defined by the way you play your build. You can think up some great combination of skills and runes for a particular playstyle, or for a particular party setup, and just because someone slaps the same skills onto their character doesn't mean it is going to be anywhere near as effective. Anyone could duplicate a character in Diablo 2 as well in a matter of hours by simply getting rushed and doing Baal runs.
In the end, it all comes down to your individual play-style and the gear you have to support it.
OMg they are dumb down the game that now has beat yet ow no. This is what i do not get all that ppl do now is QQ.
Come on let the game come out and then say something. Yeah i could see how they dumbed down WOW bu that game has been out for a while
I'm one of those guys who do like a DEGREE of commitment to a build (not total permanence), but I like commitments to builds specifically because they come with unique strengths and weaknesses. It's cool to be able to have an actual character instead of going: "well, I'm up against some ice-resistant badguys, time to swap out some skills" all the time. You can be sure that I'll be taking advantage of the current system just because it's there (in D2, boss runs aren't the most fun way to play the game, but everyone still did it), but I wish that Blizzard didn't make it QUITE that easy.
Why commitment to a build? If they keep the current iteration then you can only change skills in town. I see it as a kit that you pick before battle. It's not like you will be leaving in the middle of an onslaught to change runes/skills in combat. You pick out your kit, bring it with you to battle, and if it's not working why shouldn't you be able to change it?
Do you believe that the skills that you have chosen are what defines your character/makes it unique?
If the argument is that the skills you use and the gear you have is what makes you unique instead of how you play and your achievements in game, then diablo 2 was the epitome of "cookie cutter". Thousands of enigma using windy druids or hammerdins or zealdins or whatever tree you picked sorcerer. You don't even identify them as individuals but what their build was. By opening up the possibility to use whatever skill you want, you give players a dynamic choice as to how to approach a situation.
Agreed, I really don't understand the backwards mindset of some individuals. These people are more resistant to the idea of change than they are of a concept being improved upon.
I really hate it those terms these days: 'dumbed down' and 'cater for casuals', not to mention the whole 'I win button'. People who pump on their high horses, spouting this nonsense, are usually too think headed to understand how an improvement that makes the game better isn't necessarily making it easier.
For instance, having all of the skills at your disposal still requires you to set them up in the right way. You still need to learn how to use them correctly and synergize your skills to make your build work. Just throwing some skills together for a casual time will get your ass handed to you on Hell and Inferno difficulties.
Plus, giving you quicker customization options isn't dumbing anything down. Yes, you can swap skills faster, but why would you want to suffer penalties to be able to do that? Shouldn't the gameplay flow in a consistent way to keep you motivated to try new things, you know, learn to better play your character instead of fighting you as insistently as the monsters. I'd rather not struggle against game mechanics, thank you very much, that's why we have monster in the game.
On that note, I really don't see how people believe having all skills/runes at your disposal and quick swapping removes the difficulty from the game. I rather think that would depend on how hard the monsters will be kicking our asses all over the place.
Blizzard should just focus to make this a sandbox type game give us the tools to play with, dont make it too difficult to acquire stuff make it fun to kill and cause mayhem. Duels all over the maps, secret levels, easter eggs quests... make funny encounters, etc... dont force us on a linear path... and we can only find-out when game is release.
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In fact, the accusation that they are "dumbing the game down" is a little funny. Nobody has played it in its entirety besides employees, so nobody really knows how dynamic the situations in say "Hell" and "Inferno" mode are going to be. Is it really lowering the intelligence of the game if they are giving people access to more variety and the ability to change their character without jumping through any flaming hoops or being severely inconvenienced by having to re-level a brand new character?
Or is the "dumbing down" coming from the fact that they are including an entirely optional tutorial mode for people that might not have the kind of knowledge and expertise that comes from many hours played, the kind of in-game experience that none of those complaining possess.
I feel like the earlier parts of the game are of course catered toward casual players. Tutorials, simplified tooltips, easier encounters, easy choices.. These are all things common in early levels of many games. If you want to feel like Billy Badas you should be playing in Inferno or Hardcore mode with the rest of the big kids anyway.
Griping about lack of character uniqueness? Doesn't that come from gear choices and achievements in-game? There is going to be SO MUCH VARIATION IN GEAR. I don't think people understand that random affix means random, and the number of possible outcomes is going to be huge. So yes, you can invest gold or real money (softcore) for gear, but it's the choices you make about what stats you are using that will set the *meh* players apart from the actually knowledgeable and skilled players.
Epic battlechest of epicness with +# to critical strike and attack speed is literally miles away from +# to gold radius and dodge, especially with the possiblities of "perfect" items. Random gear is random, the bad players will flaunt the shiny loot while the great players will be making compromises and wearing items that benefit their character and strategy.
Yes you now have access to all the different types of abilities in the game at any time (level dependent) without having to grind out items to unlock your characters skills. Some scream "dumbing down" I see it as a streamlining and perfecting a system. Now instead of relying on luck or money to determine a skill set, you can look at an encounter and make decisions about what skills and runes to use for a particular problem. Money and chance aren't what is going to decide who succeeds in the hardest of hard difficulties, but intelligent choices and knowledge of your character and the game encounters you are about to face.
It's not your "build" that will make you unique, but your ability to wield your character as a whole. The players that want desperately to be stuck with only 6 available skills are, in my mind, the simple players that won't be able to adapt to the challenges they face and want for a "one-skillset-fits-all" approach.
Granted, you'll probably be able to get away with that thought process throughout most of the game, but I can guarantee that the ones taking the most epic of titles, gear, vanity items, achievements, bling, will be the ones that can adapt and use every tool at their disposal while making the right choices with the gear that they use and.
I don't want to say that I can already determine who will be playing with me in Inferno and Hardcore Inferno, because maybe some of you will surprise me, but the difference between good players and bad players will be evident once this game ships. I think that the bad players are going to be too busy worrying about inconsequential facets of the game to get far. The good players will be unique because we get to play in the hardest playgrounds.
Thanks.
You don't have to understand if you don't - you only need to know that there are people who do feel that way.
I'm one of those guys who do like a DEGREE of commitment to a build (not total permanence), but I like commitments to builds specifically because they come with unique strengths and weaknesses. It's cool to be able to have an actual character instead of going: "well, I'm up against some ice-resistant badguys, time to swap out some skills" all the time. You can be sure that I'll be taking advantage of the current system just because it's there (in D2, boss runs aren't the most fun way to play the game, but everyone still did it), but I wish that Blizzard didn't make it QUITE that easy.
This is exactly my feeling as well. I miss having some sort of commitment to your build and while it doesn't have to be permanent I think there should be at least a gold sink involved in adjusting your skill/rune selection. That said, I do think there is alot of arbituary raging against Blizzard against the streamlining of game systems. Constructive critism is helpful but just saying Blizzard sucks because they changed things from how I wanted maybe doesn't help so much. I think in general people like the idea of having a uniqueness to their character. Itemization isn't in a true sense making your character unique since the items you equip weren't active choices of customization but more of a suggested choice in asking if this item better than the previous one I have for that equipment slot. In Diablo 2 I had an appreciation for some of the more unique builds as it was a commitment of time/gear and showed a desire to be different from the million+ hammerdins etc. I'm fine if people think the new system is better but it's not how I would choose to design the rune system if I was in charge. Maybe that's for the better or maybe not. To each his own.
In the end, it all comes down to your individual play-style and the gear you have to support it.
Come on let the game come out and then say something. Yeah i could see how they dumbed down WOW bu that game has been out for a while
I like dissent. I don't like arguments wrapped in tired rhetoric.
Why commitment to a build? If they keep the current iteration then you can only change skills in town. I see it as a kit that you pick before battle. It's not like you will be leaving in the middle of an onslaught to change runes/skills in combat. You pick out your kit, bring it with you to battle, and if it's not working why shouldn't you be able to change it?
Do you believe that the skills that you have chosen are what defines your character/makes it unique?
If the argument is that the skills you use and the gear you have is what makes you unique instead of how you play and your achievements in game, then diablo 2 was the epitome of "cookie cutter". Thousands of enigma using windy druids or hammerdins or zealdins or whatever tree you picked sorcerer. You don't even identify them as individuals but what their build was. By opening up the possibility to use whatever skill you want, you give players a dynamic choice as to how to approach a situation.
I really hate it those terms these days: 'dumbed down' and 'cater for casuals', not to mention the whole 'I win button'. People who pump on their high horses, spouting this nonsense, are usually too think headed to understand how an improvement that makes the game better isn't necessarily making it easier.
For instance, having all of the skills at your disposal still requires you to set them up in the right way. You still need to learn how to use them correctly and synergize your skills to make your build work. Just throwing some skills together for a casual time will get your ass handed to you on Hell and Inferno difficulties.
Plus, giving you quicker customization options isn't dumbing anything down. Yes, you can swap skills faster, but why would you want to suffer penalties to be able to do that? Shouldn't the gameplay flow in a consistent way to keep you motivated to try new things, you know, learn to better play your character instead of fighting you as insistently as the monsters. I'd rather not struggle against game mechanics, thank you very much, that's why we have monster in the game.
On that note, I really don't see how people believe having all skills/runes at your disposal and quick swapping removes the difficulty from the game. I rather think that would depend on how hard the monsters will be kicking our asses all over the place.